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Post match: Chelsea 2 Liverpool 1

Dane

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No disgrace losing at Chelsea.
Similarly to Boxing Day, poor decisions affected the outcome.

More worryingly, that's 2 games in a row that Mignolet has blundered.
He's capable of fantastic saves, but frustrating blunders too.
Pretty similar to stuff fans turned on Reina for.......careful what you wish for
 

gasband

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Canuck33 said:
Listen, pal, we had two CBs already on the pitch when Sakho went off. There was no need to make a like for like and bring in a third one, again. Just stupid.
Granted BR could have shifted Agger into CB and then bring on Cissokho or another attacker and bring Brad Smith into LB instead. But he made the decision and there are are plenty of reasons I can think of why he might have done so, but you would also think of plenty of reasons why its stupid to do so. My point at the end will be that he made the decisions he thought was right at the point of time, alot of times this season, it went right, sometimes it went bottoms. Would this be one of them? If it is, I hope in the post match evaluation, they would have brought it up and make sure they do not make such mistakes again. For me, I thought it is simply that its late in the match with minutes remaining and he does not want to make unnecessary changes to the shape anymore. If he had wanted to make a change, he would have done so earlier but not making the 3rd change even in the last few minutes means he would have wanted to keep those 11 players to finish the game as he sees that as the best shape to get something out of the match. But the injury to Sakho is forced so he is just putting in a like for like to keep the shape he thinks is best for the remaining minutes.
 

Semmy

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gasband said:
Granted BR could have shifted Agger into CB and then bring on Cissokho or another attacker and bring Brad Smith into LB instead. But he made the decision and there are are plenty of reasons I can think of why he might have done so, but you would also think of plenty of reasons why its stupid to do so. My point at the end will be that he made the decisions he thought was right at the point of time, alot of times this season, it went right, sometimes it went bottoms. Would this be one of them? If it is, I hope in the post match evaluation, they would have brought it up and make sure they do not make such mistakes again. For me, I thought it is simply that its late in the match with minutes remaining and he does not want to make unnecessary changes to the shape anymore. If he had wanted to make a change, he would have done so earlier but not making the 3rd change even in the last few minutes means he would have wanted to keep those 11 players to finish the game as he sees that as the best shape to get something out of the match. But the injury to Sakho is forced so he is just putting in a like for like to keep the shape he thinks is best for the remaining minutes.
Unfortunately for your theory, he DID change the shape when making that sub which moved Coutinho into the middle of the park and isolating Suarez up front. Lined up the team into a very defensive looking 5-4-1 which isn't condusive for tying a game. Subbing a ball distributor for a rookie fullback makes no sense when behind a goal.

Alberto for Allen would have been my injury sub, shift to a 4-3-1-2. When Sakho went down, then you can make the change with Cissokho or Smith and slide Agger inside.

student did not out-maneuver the mentor today. Sure the bench situation at the 2 clubs not the same, but still need to put your best team on the pitch
 

grooveshark

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Fully expected that the team would lose at the Etihad and at Stamford Bridge. It was a fantastic show at the Etihad, but yesterday against a really organized defensive team, the team came short.

Howard Webb played a clanger yesterday too, and that never helps in the big games where one needs the ref to play an immaculate game.

Also think that BR has for the better part enjoyed a season where long turnover times have really helped in planning and not forced his hand when it came to rotations. Most of the teams in the Champions League have played around 8 extra games when compared to LFC, but the holiday schedule generally gets everyone on an equal footing and teams with little wiggle room for rotation can get undone and that just happened to be the case as the team tired and injuries have been incurred to both Sakho and Allen.

Mignolet started extremely well, but mistakes are now starting to appear in his game, he should have held onto the Negredo shot, and Etoo's rolled effort he should have confidently dealt with.

The January window is upon us, and every LFC fan has to hope that they invest on players that can come in and can add quality depth. The second half of the season is when most top teams generally pull away.
 

SGM

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Dane said:
No disgrace losing at Chelsea.
Similarly to Boxing Day, poor decisions affected the outcome.

More worryingly, that's 2 games in a row that Mignolet has blundered.
He's capable of fantastic saves, but frustrating blunders too.
Pretty similar to stuff fans turned on Reina for.......careful what you wish for
I think that's a stretch on Mignolet. I feel much better with him between the posts this year than any time with Reina the past 2 seasons.
 

grooveshark

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Superior Complex said:
Lost to City and Chelsea away, what's the problem ? We only have to play United away, then the rest of the top teams are on our territory.
Those top teams are accomplished away teams to be honest.

City beat Bayern on their patch, Arsenal did the same to Dortmund, Chelsea over the years have shown that they can get a result away from home. If Sakho is out for two months, then that changes the dynamic of the defence too as he was the one player that has looked assured all season in the back 4.
 

Dane

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SGM said:
I think that's a stretch on Mignolet. I feel much better with him between the posts this year than any time with Reina the past 2 seasons.
Considering the amount of cash spent on our defence, we're not really conceding many less, and have conceded considerably more than at this stage 2 seasons ago.
Mignolet shoulders as much responsibility as the back 4 for this fact.

This doesn't attract as much scrutiny due to the amount more we are scoring.
 

alphakilo

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Semmy said:
He is the manager. Pretty certain a phone call would do. From an owners' perspective that would not make me happy
The pace argument still flies. It's not just about how developed or expensive or "good" a player is; sometimes individual attributes do take priority and in this case I thought Rodgers had a tactical case for choosing Smith, who I feel is much faster and suited to playing wide than Alberto.

As it is, it wasn't an ideal move in terms of Smith's development, but that is a price we had to pay for having a threadbare squad. In an ideal world we'd have a pacey established back-up of Sterling's stature at least. I said at the time of the sub, if Moses were eligible it would've been him on instead of Smith. Ibe's injured isn't he? Hell, he'd have been on instead of Smith too.
 

Jaytinho

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Hi guys, hate monday mornings after a loss LOL but anyway...just got one question...why are LFC fans bipolar?
 

lfc.eddie

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Dane said:
Considering the amount of cash spent on our defence, we're not really conceding many less, and have conceded considerably more than at this stage 2 seasons ago.
Mignolet shoulders as much responsibility as the back 4 for this fact.

This doesn't attract as much scrutiny due to the amount more we are scoring.
Exactly, as I highlighted in one of the other threads in here. We have conceded more or less the same as last season, and much more than the time Kenny & Clarke were our coaches. Fingers were pointed at Skrtel, Agger and Reina, at some point Enrique as well. It seems easier to go to that route than to just admit that we are not as good defensively, we are just scoring hell of a lot more than we did in past 2 seasons. All that again is because of one or two players having the form of their life in red shirt. One being Suarez and the other Sturridge before he went off injured.

Yesterday and the boxing day game tell us that story. Without our top scorer playing out of his skin, we are more prone to drop points.
 

LeoT

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Imgoingred said:
Outplayed

Their midfield, especially Luiz, did really well in breaking up any play we had. Their pressing was immense and for long spells we didn't even have the ball and when we did there was no flow to our play. Props to them for managing such a high intensity considering the many games.

We need to invest and invest A LOT. Chelsea have a player of Mata's calibre on their bench who can't even get a game. We have Aspas and a fresh, inexperienced 19yo making his debut against Chelsea away, while losing 1-2...

Aspas is simply not good enough. I can't even remember him playing a successful pass this entire season, let alone creating and scoring goals.

I really hate seeing early 1-0 leads turn into 1-2 losses...
Looks like squad depth and the number of games just caught up with us.

I predicted this in the pre-match thread.

LeoT said:
I think we will have problems because of our lack of squad depth.

Chelsea have 2 decent players for most of the positions on the pitch, their bench is stronger than ours so then can rotate out some of their fatigued players and still be almost as strong.
We can't do that, if Johnson , Coutinho or Sterling are fatigued, then they will just have to play because we have no decent cover.

Chelsea bench in the last match:
Lampard, Torres, Schürrle, Willian, Schwarzer, Cahill & Azpilicueta

Liverpool bench in our last match:
Jones, Touré, Agger, Alberto, Aspas, Moses, Smith

I suspect if we played them with 4 or 5 days rest we would probably get a draw, or possibly even nic a win.
I think with just 3 days rest we will probably lose, or maybe nic a draw.

The only position we have sufficient cover is at centre back (Touré & Agger), though we could possibly start Alberto in central midfield if Hendo/Allen are fatigued.
Having said that, I think it is simplistic to just blame squad depth without recognising that we had to send decent players out on loan this season because of the lack of games they would be able to start.
I'm sure Assaidi or Borini would probably have done abetter job than Smith and Aspas.

I think our lack of European football this season is a two edged sword, and on this occasion has cost us.
 

LeoT

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lfc.eddie said:
Exactly, as I highlighted in one of the other threads in here. We have conceded more or less the same as last season, and much more than the time Kenny & Clarke were our coaches. Fingers were pointed at Skrtel, Agger and Reina, at some point Enrique as well. It seems easier to go to that route than to just admit that we are not as good defensively, we are just scoring hell of a lot more than we did in past 2 seasons. All that again is because of one or two players having the form of their life in red shirt. One being Suarez and the other Sturridge before he went off injured.

Yesterday and the boxing day game tell us that story. Without our top scorer playing out of his skin, we are more prone to drop points.
I don't really agree.

I think we are conceeding more because our style of play is different.
We commit far more players forward than we used to.

We now try to win big games rather than trying not to lose them.
 

LeoT

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Canuck33 said:
Listen, pal, we had two CBs already on the pitch when Sakho went off. There was no need to make a like for like and bring in a third one, again. Just stupid.
We were playing with 3 at the back at that stage, so I think it was the correct thing to do.
 

WrinkledMind

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If you had asked me about these two away matches even just 2 weeks before, I would had said that, 'give me a draw in both of them and I will be the happiest man on the planet'.That wish didn't change this week.

So we lost.Down to few careless mistakes, bad referee decisions and a glaring lack of backup quality.Nothing to be alarmed with overall.Worrying yes, Alarming no.

We have got our difficult matches (most of them) done with.Sure the Hull match reminds me that fixtures that appear easy on paper aren't 3 points guaranteed.But we can realistically look at our fixtures and think about accumulating points.The goal hasn't changed.It was top 4 and it will remain so ---- even though some wrongly started dreaming about the title.

BR though needs to sort out few issues.The FBs look weak.For our style of football to succeed we need attacking FBs.Glen needs a few words spoken to, or maybe dropped just to make him realise to pull his socks up.
A couple of signings and Gerrard and Sturridge coming back, eventually and I would like to believe we would be alright.

PS:It was extremely embarrassing yesterday sitting on Twitter seeing some of the fans having a go at Brad Smith.I know every club has few absolute morons for supporters but still didn't know we had that many.
 

howhardgerrard

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I've got to say i am most miffed by this BBC article.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25545739

I get the Jose will defend his players and claim the opposite of clear facts to boost his own team and players but for the BBC to not only report that Jose claims Suarez cheated and dived but to them publish an article which also suggests he did is just unacceptable. Yeah I am bias but bloody hell if Gary Neville calls it stone wall then it must be pretty clear-cut! Why do the media perpetuate this BS without even thinking about the repercussions?
 

grooveshark

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howhardgerrard said:
I've got to say i am most miffed by this BBC article.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25545739

I get the Jose will defend his players and claim the opposite of clear facts to boost his own team and players but for the BBC to not only report that Jose claims Suarez cheated and dived but to them publish an article which also suggests he did is just unacceptable. Yeah I am bias but bloody hell if Gary Neville calls it stone wall then it must be pretty clear-cut! Why do the media perpetuate this BS without even thinking about the repercussions?
Mourinho will say anything if it suits his team, you will rarely see him admit to something wrong happening.

I think for him it is a way of getting attention off his players.
 

Jaytinho

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Dane said:
Did you join the site just to get that off your chest?
LOL dont get me wrong now, Im a LFC fan till i die...I was just looking at the site and recently Ive seen the shift between Praise and Batter continue throughout our performances...like after the stoke game "MIGNOLET IS THE BEST EVER!"...then after yesterday "DROP MIGNOLET NOWWWWWWW GET PEPE BACK!!"...then theres Henderson...after the Totenham game "I TOLD YOU THIS KID IS THE FUTURE!"...then yesterday..."HENDERSON IS GARBAGE! KING KENNYS FLOP SIGNING!"...so, that kinda explains my bipolar remark...As strange as it sounds, I take these 2 losses as gains...both City and Chelsea had to get referees assistance to beat us and we are still within top 4 and title reach....GROW UP LFC FANS!
RedJacko said:
F**k Off!
LOL sorry if i offended you
 

Mascot88

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Jaytinho said:
LOL dont get me wrong now, Im a LFC fan till i die...I was just looking at the site and recently Ive seen the shift between Praise and Batter continue throughout our performances...like after the stoke game "MIGNOLET IS THE BEST EVER!"...then after yesterday "DROP MIGNOLET NOWWWWWWW GET PEPE BACK!!"...then theres Henderson...after the Totenham game "I TOLD YOU THIS KID IS THE FUTURE!"...then yesterday..."HENDERSON IS GARBAGE! KING KENNYS FLOP SIGNING!"...so, that kinda explains my bipolar remark...As strange as it sounds, I take these 2 losses as gains...both City and Chelsea had to get referees assistance to beat us and we are still within top 4 and title reach....GROW UP LFC FANS!
Maybe instead of Paraphrasing a community with thousands of members with just those at the extremes of the debate, it might be better to engage with what people actually say in real words?

Oh and we're fifth.
 

Jaytinho

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Mascot88 said:
Maybe instead of Paraphrasing a community with thousands of members with just those at the extremes of the debate, it might be better to engage with what people actually say in real words?

Oh and we're fifth.
My apologies for generalizing...but Ive seen it alot, loyalty to certain players are like a pendulum...Allen and Henderson get most of the flack, one minute they geniuses the next they need to pack their bags...oh and the famous Brendan Rodgers pendulum.."LFC IS TOO BIG FOR BRENDAN RODGERS" then after a significant win "I KNEW HE WAS THE RIGHT MAN FOR THE JOB! HE JUST NEEDS TIME"....Im just saying tho, when will loyalty to individuals be static? given that LFC is a football TEAM
 

therealkeano1

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the lads gave it their best and it was extremely to get a result and keep up with Chelsea after the massive performance v city. Hopefully Allen and sakho aren't out too long. We will bounce back.
 

Maria

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Btw, I found the swapping of shirts at half time by Eto and Sakho and Coutinho and Oscar very odd, surely they know the protocol, that the players do this after the match. I heard Brendan was not pleased at all.
 

Kopite77

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Well, I (rarely did) respect Jose. He knows the score,for want of a better phrase(?!) He demands respect. All he gained from me this time aroud,however. Is a yawn and a yearning for payback!!! F U Not so special one.
 

Mulder

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howhardgerrard said:
I've got to say i am most miffed by this BBC article.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25545739

I get the Jose will defend his players and claim the opposite of clear facts to boost his own team and players but for the BBC to not only report that Jose claims Suarez cheated and dived but to them publish an article which also suggests he did is just unacceptable. Yeah I am bias but bloody hell if Gary Neville calls it stone wall then it must be pretty clear-cut! Why do the media perpetuate this BS without even thinking about the repercussions?
That bbc article is a disgrace, talk about an agenda, anyone that watched the match knows that mourinhos comments were laughable, but somehow the bbc see their opportunity to take a dig at Suarez, they even manage to get the previous three bans in there and also a pic in a side article showing Webb talking to Suarez implying he was speaking to him about the incident.

The bbc are a right shower of sh*t
 

Johnny T.

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Maria, if I was Brendan I would fine both if them a weeks wages, that kind of action is incomprehensible at a tightly balanced stage if the contest. And those are Liverpool shirts you are playing in, muppets.
 

SoueysTash

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A few comments around the main talking points:

Agger at LB over Cissokho

2 reasons for this:

i) Additional assistance in dealing with Set Pieces
ii) BR has no faith that Cissokho can play 2 games in that period of time

I think this decision was the right one to begin with though as the game wore on it was clear we were lacking any threat down the left hand side. This is no swipe at Agger, he's not a Left Back - we saw when Johnson was out that we need fullbacks who get forward otherwise our gameplan doesn't really work. I'd like to have seen some action on this at the start of the second half, rather than going 3 at the back as we did, bringing on Cissokho for Skrtel would have given us more of what we needed which was width on the left hand side. Whilst Cissokho doesn't seem to have enough pace, he does have experience of playing full back and would have offered more than Agger did going forward.

Coutinhos performance

He's a young lad and I'm by no means lambasting him however it was clear around the 50 minute mark he didn't have his eye in. So many potential opportunities went by as the final ball wasn't right. He was also giving the ball away too much, plus - lacking pace down the left hand side really stifled us and put all the onus on Sterlings wing play to create anything. There were also a couple of opportunities he took to shoot when there were better options around him. Bringing on Alberto once Coutinho was moved to the classic 10 role would have been the right decision.

Smith Substitute

Think the young lad did ok, I can see why BR put him out in the wide forward position. Less responsibility and an injection of youthful pace, he didn't have a bad game he just struggled to get into the game out there. I also felt that Suarez & Coutinho failed to give him the ball on a couple of occasions when he was in a good position. As the game panned out it was clear this wasn't a great decision although I fail to see what other options we had to inject pace down this side.

Whilst this is all hindsight, it does expose some big holes in our squad - holes that will need to be filled before we can ever hope to challenge on multiple fronts in the coming seasons. Hopefully the owners and the manager aren't blind to it and we'll see some reinforcements come in January to enable us to compete for the top 4 position we desperately need.

BR does seem to have a reluctance to play Alberto and I'm not sure why, I guess we have to trust his judgement - afterall, Sterling & Aggers enhanced absences in the earlier parts of the season appeared to have driven performance increases..
 

Bubbler

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Well glad those two games are out of the way, well done red men, played your hearts out against city and came up short. A little fatigued yesterday and came up short again. But a win against hull and we are back on track. Hopefully we have a good window in Jan and get a few quality additions. And with Arsenal, City, Spurs and Chelsea all still to come to our ground i can see 2014 looking good for LFC. And i can see it now, Suarez scoring the winner against Chelsea and doing his dive right in front of Mourinho. Chin up lads. YNWA.