Post Match: Chelsea v Liverpool (FAC 3/3/20 7.45pm)

Man of the match

  • Adrian

    Votes: 11 22.4%
  • Williams

    Votes: 17 34.7%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 2 4.1%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 2 4.1%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 3 6.1%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 1 2.0%
  • Lallana [off 80’]

    Votes: 2 4.1%
  • Jones [off 69’]

    Votes: 9 18.4%
  • Mane

    Votes: 7 14.3%
  • Minamino

    Votes: 22 44.9%
  • Origi [off 69’]

    Votes: 1 2.0%
  • Firmino [on 69’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Milner [on 69’]

    Votes: 2 4.1%
  • Salah [on 80’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .

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Have you read my post? tell me what he did differently to VVD in the final? As a defender, you have to cover what I would term as the killer pass, the one which would have put a player 1 v 1 with the keeper and he stopped this, also did you see Adrian's positioning? it showed him actually in line behind Gomez so he didn't cover the majority of the goal which was where the shot went in.

With regards to no man's land, he was in no man's land once Barclay broke through, as the defender all you hope is that the forwards make a fuck up as they are in the ascendency 2 v 1 and on this occasion Barclay hit a good shot.

Blaming Gomez for this is a joke, if you consider what VVD did with Sissoko as being excellent and most pundits did.
Have you read my reply to you (which is completely in agreement with you btw)? People might listen to your point if you got the game right. There are probably people right now rewatching the CL final wondering what you're going on about.
 

Noo Noo

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Is anyone really bothered that we are out of the F All cup? I know that I'm not, and by Kloppo's demeanour last night, neither is he. Obviously I'm disappointed to lose a match, any match, but the F All cup, come on; we have a much bigger target in our sights.

And it's not as though it is a disgrace to lose to cheatski, away at their midden; they have some very good players, and Kepa, as is typical for opposition goalies, had a worldy. We got nothing from the ref, no fifty-fifty decisions, nothing e.g. while he ignored a blatant trip on Sadio, he was quick to card Fab for what looked like a legitimate challenge. As a direct consequence Fab didn't tackle barkley "banker", on his scoring run. On another night, with a bit of luck, we could have won it, not necessarily at a canter, but won it, none the less.

Could we have played better? Of course we could; and knowing that should be a source of hope and optimism, not doubt and despair.

So we have one less distraction, and fewer games to play, which should be to our advantage.

And to my shame, I feel exactly the same about the Champion's League; yes I would be over the moon to win it again, and no, I don't want to lose, but if we do get knocked out, I won't be suicidal.

As long as we win "It", I really don't care, not even if it is only by one point on the last day of the season.

PS mods, pretty please, would it be possible to ban anyone who posts that we're going to win "It" anytime before it is a mathematical certainty?
I was a bit bothered to be honest. I'm greedy and I thought we could have gone a lot deeper in this competition.

That said the manner of the defeat hurts more to be honest. We weren't robbed etc. It was all our own undoing.

Still we're in the two big ones. I honestly feel we need at least 1 more trophy this season to reflect what an honestly amazing one it has been. World Club champions doesn't wash it for me. PL + 1 other would have been a better representation by far. PL + CL double would be out of this world and fully deserved by the players if they get it. They need to buck their ideas up though. No freebies here
 

SBYM

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Sadly I feel it's falling to bits, I don't see any hope in what we've done the last two games everyone looks spent or bored or lethargic. I thought Watford would blow the cobwebs away but it's same old last night.

We will blow it all I feel... as impossible as it looks sadly I can't see us winning the PL anymore. Sorry. Time to take a break from it all it seems.
Dude...
 

sportbilly1966

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Have you read my reply to you (which is completely in agreement with you btw)? People might listen to your point if you got the game right. There are probably people right now rewatching the CL final wondering what you're going on about.
No I havent seen a reply from you
 

sportbilly1966

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Exactly right... except that game wasn't the CL, it was against Spurs at Anfield in the league. But yes, had Gomez pushed up on Barkley the runner on the right would have been a simple option to play in. He forced Barkley into a fairly low percentage option and he scored. Gomez did as well as the options around him allowed him to do. Fabinho running through treacle to get back really didn't help.
Now seen it lol, apologies getting the game wrong just knew it was Sissoko and just presumed it was the Champs league final.

I have played and been in that situation and all you can do is put doubt in the mind of the attacker as you say play the percentage games.

It was shocking by the midfielders to allow Barkley to get in that position.
 

Flobs

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Where to start with this fucking drivel? Don’t try and strawman me with talk of expecting perfection and scapegoating players. That isn’t me, and if you’re going to try and do a character job, make sure you understand my character.
Come on Mascott take it on the chin. You post a narrative of those who defend Lovren getting wound up. It seems that it's you getting wound up because some, well I'm saying Gomez made 2 errors in a match. So you feel entitled to strawman me and decide the character of those that defend Lovren but others shouldn't question your character? Just saying. :(
 

Flobs

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Here is so much said about our defenders.
I think our main problems are at the other end of the pitch.
I have the impression that our midfeild isn't contributing like it has. It's bypassed more and more, it joins the forwards more and more, yet is being carved apart by the opposition on too many ocassions. Seems to me that we need to take a step back and ask what we want from our midfeild.
 

Mascot88

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Come on Mascott take it on the chin. You post a narrative of those who defend Lovren getting wound up. It seems that it's you getting wound up because some, well I'm saying Gomez made 2 errors in a match. So you feel entitled to strawman me and decide the character of those that defend Lovren but others shouldn't question your character? Just saying. :(
We can disagree about Gomez/Lovren and that’s fine.

I don’t appreciate is someone accusing me of demanding perfection, saying I’m not happy unless we win every match 7-0, suggesting I’ll be moving on to the next victim when Lovren’s gone and so on. That’s not only bullshit, it’s offensive. I have never been that poster. I’m usually the one appealing for calm, encouraging people to see things in a wider context and trying to see players as human beings.
 

Iluvatar

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Let's be honest, Gomez is a vastly better defender than Lovren.
 

Gone Kloppo

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Still we're in the two big ones. I honestly feel we need at least 1 more trophy this season to reflect what an honestly amazing one it has been. World Club champions doesn't wash it for me. PL + 1 other would have been a better representation by far. PL + CL double would be out of this world and fully deserved by the players if they get it. They need to buck their ideas up though. No freebies here
Its not simply a PL title though. This is a 30yo 400lb gorilla *potentially* off our backs. Breaking that 'duck' is an amazing achievement in its own right.
 

Noo Noo

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Its not simply a PL title though. This is a 30yo 400lb gorilla *potentially* off our backs. Breaking that 'duck' is an amazing achievement in its own right.
yes you're right. Still I did say I was greedy ;)

I just want Klopp and the players to get the plaudits that they fully deserve for the last two seasons. Not sure that when people look back a PL title on its own quite achieves that.

If we go on an win more PL titles then yes.
 

ptt

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Did anyone fall for this?
I don’t have the head space to remember who the nutters are but I was surprised that somebody who’s never been on the radar properly loses it.
 

Flobs

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We can disagree about Gomez/Lovren and that’s fine.

I don’t appreciate is someone accusing me of demanding perfection, saying I’m not happy unless we win every match 7-0, suggesting I’ll be moving on to the next victim when Lovren’s gone and so on. That’s not only bullshit, it’s offensive. I have never been that poster. I’m usually the one appealing for calm, encouraging people to see things in a wider context and trying to see players as human beings.
Where was the disagreement over Gomez and Lovren?
This was about Gomez making mistakes or not during a game. Yes, ok I knew by invoking Gomez' mistakes this would be reflected on to Lovren but I didn't want that to be the case.
I am not wound up over the abuse Lovren gets, I'm disgusted and I believe it to be very dangerous however not to fuel it I keep out of it particularly as Mods and administrators are involved and in any case it goes well beyond this forum and it's members.

Sure it's not nice that someone posts something that insinuates, exaggerates or makes illusions to character flaws (because of my character and my opinions I tend to get quite a lot of that and on ocassion I react badly to it). That you take a post that started the offending portion with 'you'll all' i.e a general comment not a personal one just goes to show how wound up you are about this percieved Lovren/Gomez debacle (which was the OP's point in the first place). I don't know what you have posted about Lovren but even on this forum which tends to be respectuous of players do you honestly feel that some posts about Lovren are seeing him as a human being?

I agree, you are the mod/admin that is most implicated in appealing for calm, encouraging decent debate, treating us all as human beings and advising individuals when to stop. You are also very genuine, full of character, human.
Like for example this:
Careful mate, you’ll have someone excusing you of demanding 7-0 wins in every game.
 

liver1

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yes you're right. Still I did say I was greedy ;)

I just want Klopp and the players to get the plaudits that they fully deserve for the last two seasons. Not sure that when people look back a PL title on its own quite achieves that.

If we go on an win more PL titles then yes.
PL, or PL and FA cup doesnt make much difference. A CL league double however is a totally different level. It would also mean back to back CL.

The FA cup wouldnt really have much significance. It wouldnt be the frosting on a cake it would just be some cherries on top. A treble would have guaranteed greatness but wed still need to win the CL anyway. A PL and CL double, (with back to back CL) + over 100 points, is another way to guarantee greatness. Were still on that path.
 

sportbilly1966

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Where was the disagreement over Gomez and Lovren?
This was about Gomez making mistakes or not during a game. Yes, ok I knew by invoking Gomez' mistakes this would be reflected on to Lovren but I didn't want that to be the case.
I am not wound up over the abuse Lovren gets, I'm disgusted and I believe it to be very dangerous however not to fuel it I keep out of it particularly as Mods and administrators are involved and in any case it goes well beyond this forum and it's members.

Sure it's not nice that someone posts something that insinuates, exaggerates or makes illusions to character flaws (because of my character and my opinions I tend to get quite a lot of that and on ocassion I react badly to it). That you take a post that started the offending portion with 'you'll all' i.e a general comment not a personal one just goes to show how wound up you are about this percieved Lovren/Gomez debacle (which was the OP's point in the first place). I don't know what you have posted about Lovren but even on this forum which tends to be respectuous of players do you honestly feel that some posts about Lovren are seeing him as a human being?

I agree, you are the mod/admin that is most implicated in appealing for calm, encouraging decent debate, treating us all as human beings and advising individuals when to stop. You are also very genuine, full of character, human.
Like for example this:
Its true I want 7 - 0 wins everytime!!!

In the context of things what player that plays football and doesn't make mistakes? However its what we do with these mistakes and critisism that matters, do we learn and respond is what matters and I think this is the criticism levelled at Lovren not learning and seeming to do the same mistakes/ errors without learning, plus he's an experienced defender whereas Joe is a 22 year old still wet under the ears but soi g great so far.
 
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Flobs

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Its true I want 7 - 0 wins everytime!!!

In the what player plays football and doesn't make mistakes? However its what we do with these mistakes and critisism that matters, do we learn and respond is what matters and I think this is the criticism levelled at Lovren not learning and seeming to do the same mistakes/ errors without learning, plus he's an experienced defender whereas Joe is a 22 year old still wet under the ears but soi g great so far.
What has that got to do with my post?
I don't see where age makes a difference when it comes to treating people as human beings do you?
As I asked where is the disagreement over Lovren and Gomez?
Why has Lovren cropped up in a discussion about Gomez?
 

sportbilly1966

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What has that got to do with my post?
I don't see where age makes a difference when it comes to treating people as human beings do you?
As I asked where is the disagreement over Lovren and Gomez?
Why has Lovren cropped up in a discussion about Gomez?
It was why Lovren gets more critisism, but I agree I dont like comments that are over the top and age has to be taken in to it when comparing performances has Lovren should have far more experiences to learn from. Also I have explained why I disagree with your points on Joe. Which I again have elaborated below as an aging footy player.

On the 1st goal as a footballer of almost 40 years and playing midfield, I would berate a team mate not giving me the ball when showing for it with a man on, I would say trust me to deal with and if I dont then bollock me. Also with regards to their 2nd goal I would also have done the same as Joe and as a coach I would have been happy with his defending, as sometimes you win them sometimes you don't.

Anyway you sometimes cant see the wood for the trees and thats my opinion but I do enjoy our discussions.

P.s on my pad I cant use smiley faces or gifs otherwise I would and it maybe Mr Magoo ;-)
 

Flobs

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On the 1st goal as a footballer of almost 40 years and playing midfield, I would berate a team mate not giving me the ball when showing for it with a man on, I would say trust me to deal with and if I dont then bollock me. Also with regards to their 2nd goal I would also have done the same as Joe and as a coach I would have been happy with his defending,
In the end you get what you deserve. :cry:

as sometimes you win them sometimes you don't.
Which is exactly what I was saying in one of my posts. My immediate read of the situation at the time was just very different. For me Barkley had to be blocked and Gomez was the only player in a position to do that.

As for the other stuff I just have not compared any players just picked out instances where a player made a decission which I felt was wrong.
 

sportbilly1966

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In the end you get what you deserve. :cry:


Which is exactly what I was saying in one of my posts. My immediate read of the situation at the time was just very different. For me Barkley had to be blocked and Gomez was the only player in a position to do that.

As for the other stuff I just have not compared any players just picked out instances where a player made a decission which I felt was wrong.
Therefore comparing
 

Limiescouse

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Its not simply a PL title though. This is a 30yo 400lb gorilla *potentially* off our backs. Breaking that 'duck' is an amazing achievement in its own right.
And we're still on course for a record breaking league win. People starting to question how successful our season will be now, and lamenting us missing out on history because we've gone out of two cups that a year later no one remembers who won really need to get some perspective.
 

Mascot88

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Where was the disagreement over Gomez and Lovren?
This was about Gomez making mistakes or not during a game. Yes, ok I knew by invoking Gomez' mistakes this would be reflected on to Lovren but I didn't want that to be the case.
I am not wound up over the abuse Lovren gets, I'm disgusted and I believe it to be very dangerous however not to fuel it I keep out of it particularly as Mods and administrators are involved and in any case it goes well beyond this forum and it's members.

Sure it's not nice that someone posts something that insinuates, exaggerates or makes illusions to character flaws (because of my character and my opinions I tend to get quite a lot of that and on ocassion I react badly to it). That you take a post that started the offending portion with 'you'll all' i.e a general comment not a personal one just goes to show how wound up you are about this percieved Lovren/Gomez debacle (which was the OP's point in the first place). I don't know what you have posted about Lovren but even on this forum which tends to be respectuous of players do you honestly feel that some posts about Lovren are seeing him as a human being?

I agree, you are the mod/admin that is most implicated in appealing for calm, encouraging decent debate, treating us all as human beings and advising individuals when to stop. You are also very genuine, full of character, human.
Like for example this:
I’m sure Lovren is a lovely lad, he certainly seems to be well liked and appears to be good for team spirit. I’ve nothing against him personally.

I’ll also admit that he is capable of excellent performances. But the problem is that one game in five he’ll do a Watford. In short he doesn’t have the consistency to play at the level we are now at. His range is some inbetween 2/10 and 10/10. Most of the time it’s the latter, but the former is always a possibility.

A further problem is that he has a tendency to compound his mistakes by making more mistakes, trying to atone for the original mistake. it’s like a vicious circle with him, and I think the Anfield Wrap nailed it when they said that he has it in him for a performance to completely disintegrate.

What this has to do with Gomez is that it looks to me like, after the shit that Lovren took at the weekend from quite a few people, some other people, who had defended Lovren, were a bit overly keen to ascribe mistakes and faults to Gomez, as a way of righting that injustice. Almost the first post in the Post Match said something like, ‘Well I suppose that was Lovren’s fault as well, was it?’

I might have got this horribly wrong, and it’s just a coincidence. In which case I apologise. But you can see how it looks?

On the Chelsea goals, I’m not going to argue the second because I don’t remember much about it other than we got caught on the break. If there was a mistake from the lad, fair enough. I’m not going to argue it.

But the first I just don’t accept. Liverpool have been playing those kind of short rabona style passes in around our own box for the last couple of years. So much so, that I think my sphincter muscles could crush a walnut at this point. But I’ve relaxed a bit and accepted that it’s what we do and these boys are good at playing out like this. The ball from Joe is not atypical of our play. We play riskier balls than this all the time.

Secondly Fabinho shows for the ball and makes it clear to Gomez the pass is an option. If he doesn’t want it, he should be telling Joe to empty it.

Thirdly the pass should still be manageable for Fab, who should get it under control, and then has the option of popping back to Adrian or turning on the ball and finding a pass upfield.

The mistake is that he fails to control it, and then the second mistake is Adrian spills it in his own goal. And by the way both are players I really rate and expect to bounce back.
 

Mascot88

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And we're still on course for a record breaking league win. People starting to question how successful our season will be now, and lamenting us missing out on history because we've gone out of two cups that a year later no one remembers who won really need to get some perspective.
Thing is though there are multiple levels that conversations here can be conduct on

The overall context is one thing, and there are few who are not gushing over the unbelievable team we’re enjoying. Having said that I’ve deleted (or not approved) posts from a few new posters who seem to to have registered purely to slag off Klopp or the team on the back of a couple of bad results.

Then there is the immediate context of the last few games. And then the post Match. And you are allowed to think that the most recent performances have been fucking shite, whilst still revelling in what will go down as possibly the best league campaign in the clubs history.

As I’ve found in this discussion, criticism of the recent performance can end up getting you flak from people who think you’re ungrateful, unrealistic or just moaning for the sake of moaning.

The truth is that is fucking ace being a Liverpool fan right now if the contact is the last two years, and it’s fucking shite being a Liverpool fan if the context is the last two weeks. Both are true.

I confess that I feel a little deflated at the prospect of ‘just’ winning the league, and if that is the outcome I expect I’ll give my head a wobble, realise I’m being a bit of a bellend and reflect on a brilliant season.

But the reasons I think I feel a bit deflated is that, firstly, in all honesty the league was done ages ago and I think we’ve all maybe allowed our minds to drift to thoughts of what else is possible. Secondly I think ‘just’ the league doesn’t really do proper justice to the brilliance of these lads. They deserve to be recorded and immortalised as one of the greatest teams. The achievement so far - to reach March having only recorded one draw and one loss is staggering.

Mind you Virg took me down peg today, and I’ll remember the big mans words on the matter b
 
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Limiescouse

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On the Chelsea goals, I’m not going to argue the second because I don’t remember much about it other than we got caught on the break. If there was a mistake from the lad, fair enough. I’m not going to argue it.
Nar, it's bollocks. People criticising Gomez on that are simply demanding he superman us out of a dodgy spot. That is not a reasonable expectation, nor is his failure to do that reason for criticism. Good defending is about doing the right thing the vast majority of the time, and that often that means taking the least poor option out of a series of poor options. Such as when you lose the ball and get countered and end up having to run back towards your own goal without turning your back on the play. You;re trying to make sure that if you're going to get beaten it's going to be because they did something really well, while positioning yourself to take advantage of a small slip up form them. Credit to Barkley, he didnt offer that chance and fucking wellied the shot. That is what happens with defending sometimes. You can take the right options and against good players sometimes they will still score. Still, if you go on keep making the right decisions they wont score that often over the course of a season.

Anyway, and it's not rabona. That's the fancy kick where you bring the foot around the wrong side of the standing leg. What I assume you mean are the 5 on 2 drills we see a lot of footage of. Those are Rondos
 
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Mascot88

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Anyway, and it's rabona. That's the fancy kick where you bring the foot around the wrong side of the standing leg. What I assume you mean are the 5 on 2 drills we see a lot of footage of. Those are Rondos
Thanks - that’s what I was thinking off.

If anyone tried a rabona in our own box it would be walnut crunching time again.