POST MATCH discussion: Everton 2-2 Liverpool

Arminius

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It's the argument the FA have been using for years to excuse inaction.

The reality is that most points where a contentious decision is needed take place in a natural break anyway.

- Should that goal stand? The game has stopped because the ball is in the back of the net.
- Should that be a yellow card? or a red? The game will have stopped for a foul.
- which player did that throw in/corner come off? The ball will be out of play.

There is already the technology to tell whether a ball has crossed the goal line or dead ball line.

All these examples would not allow any significant addition of time. They create natural breaks where a fourth official watching a delayed feed can communicate with the referee.
For a game where there is a remarkable tolerance for players forcing play to stop or delaying restarts, there is a nearly equally remarkable concern for keeping play moving.
 

juan1001

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He was probably going to save it as a donation to the Everton transfer kitty. You know, the little plastic David Moyes with the the slot in his head, stroking a tiny Leon Osman, outside Goodison.
I thought he was saving it for FSG, so they can buy a strike partner in January...
 

Mascot88

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I suppose if it was thrown at Suarez then it counts as earnings and would be eligible under FFP rules.

If Suarez keeps cultivating his reputation this could be a nice revenue stream.
 

Prolix

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It's actually kind of inspiring when you realise that he's probably actually keeping it to motivate himself to prove those people wrong.
 

juan1001

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I suppose if it was thrown at Suarez then it counts as earnings and would be eligible under FFP rules.

If Suarez keeps cultivating his reputation this could be a nice revenue stream.
I'm sure the FA and Player's Union are going to make sure that he declares the income on his tax returns.
 

Spitfire

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Don't know about anyone else - but the whole Suarez 'thing' is getting beyond a joke.

The commentators on TV were a joke first it was disgusting of Suarez to celebrate the way he did - then he should have been sent off for the challenge on Distin (which looked unintentional, based on the replay and his reaction) and then to cap it off they said that ruling our goal offside was probably things getting evened out because the scorer i.e Suarez probably still shouldn't be on the field.

And yet when others made rash challenges and were only yellow carded it was good referring and when he had coins at him it hardly warranted a mention............

He's no saint but quite frankly the treatment of this guy by the English as a whole is quite embarrassing.
 

Dr_J

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In tennis, a challenge takes about 7 seconds. It won't slow down the game as much as people think as long as it is done the right way. How hard would it be for an review official to rule that goal by Suarez to be onside?
And the play is stopped anyway if the ball has hit the back of the net... Enough time to get a replay, enough time to make the correct decision. People who say "human error is part of the game," it isn't. Human error is holding the game back.
 

104TOSH

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THAT linesman was an android(really life like too - amazing how far we've come since cloning Dolly The Sheep) who was being operated by ol' whiskey nose! Case closed!

Like many others I too celebrated the Magic Imp's winning goal - alas I crashed back to Earth when I resumed my seat to note the score was still 2-2! You could have knocked me over with a magic mushroom(talking of which!).

The standard of the EPL officials is truly shocking! These are full time referees after all - or am I dreaming??? It really is galling - especially when you see how well treated Utd are. A friend of mine reckons the Premier League was brought into affect to end our monopoly on winning titles and cups, I said no, too far fetched! BUT........now I know for certain their is an agenda against us! Its plain to see!

I had forecast we'd win 2-0......so close.....well kind of! When we went 2 up I thought great, but being a derby I always expect the unexpected......damn.....it happened! But, things are looking up for us, and we will take much confidence from this game; although we will be extremely sore at not winning. We deserved to win although we didn't play as well as we have - but its a derby rule - comes into effect!

Mr Suarez - magical performance.
Skirts - strong and commanding
Sterling - will benefit from this experience, as will Wisdom.

Technology - is a must. As others have said they use it in rugby, cricket and tennis, and most fans will embrace it. Its something which must be implemented. The time factor is not a problem - it isn't in rugby - tennis or cricket.

Looking forward to the Swansea game.

Lets build on this performance.
 

DEVGRU

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Standard of referring (and linesmen) seems to be taking two steps back..and not improving at all.

Either the FA are promoting the wrong linesmen and ref's or there are/is a lot of politics behind the scenes as to who gets promoted.

It was a straight forward call as far as Suarez being on side or off.
 

legalalien

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Was it a goal? Yes, of course it was.
Did we deserve to win? No.
Will performances like that see us finishing in the top six, never mind the top four? No.
Where does the problem lie? Well, there's the thing, isn't it. Obviously we are a striker or two light, but for me the problem yesterday was midfield. Of course we're missing Lucas but I think that if the midfield yesterday had been Lucas, Gerrard and Allen we still would have lacked something. The problem is our undroppable captain. He really doesn't fit into BR's idea of a CM, he's lost that dynamism that used to see him bombing forward from deep, he's definitely not a replacement for Lucas, and he's too bloody fond of the spectacular long ball. When it works he looks world class, when it doesn't we lose possession.

IMO the only solution is to play him up front on the right, and while we're at it maybe Henderson could used as a replacement for Lucas and BR can then decide who plays best with Allen, because there's no way he's going to be dropped.

BTW, starting to get worried Suarez. If this persecution of the guy continues I can see him saying "Balls to this I'm off to Juventus or wherever". A couple of games back the TV camera focused on his wife in the stands. She did not look happy at the abuse her man was getting and if your wife says she thinks we should move then it's hard to say no.
 

Rooster

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And to rub it in even further decisions favoured Manure so they could win another close one.
 

RJK

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I'm furious. Yes, at the referee for letting it turn into a kicking match. Yes, at the linesman for not awarding a clear goal. But you know what? I'm particularly pissed off at our players.

For a team which is supposed to be dominating and winning games through possession, we showed absolutely zero control or patience. Time after time our players were looking for the long ball up to Luis/Raheem, looking for the killer ball, trying to force the issue. That is completely unacceptable. Most of the time those balls are not going to be on. You must be able to show the patience in your play to realise the attack isn't going to lead to a good opportunity and then cycle the ball back to your deepest midfielder and start again. Sometimes you need to do that for 60 minutes before the chance comes, hell maybe even sometimes you have to do it for 80 minutes before the chance comes. But the point is that you maintain control of the game and ball at all times and dictate the terms on which the game will be played: your terms. That is how you kill games.

We were dictated to by Everton today, and that pisses me right off. I'm sure I'll be told "it's a derby!", but that's bullshit. This glorified Stoke can be passed to death just like any other team. We could have stayed above the fray, looked for the simple balls for 30, 40, 50 minutes and make them frustrated. They would have been chasing the ball and in all likelihood picking up cards. That kind of game-chasing is not sustainable, and that's why we ultimately win games that we control. Everton controlled the game today and we let them do it. Going to the 5-3-2/3-5-2 was an interesting move, but still our midfield let the game pass them by. The occasion completely got to our heads and we drew because of it.

I understand that we don't have our first choice keeper, DM, and fullbacks. But by now every player at this club should be able to pass and move over short distances and in traffic. I would rather watch the ball get pinged around midfield in 5 yard passes than watch us continually lob the ball up top for Everton to bring it back to us. It's simply not smart.

I'm hoping that Sterling is given time on the bench to get a breather from the game. I think Assaidi has done enough to merit a starting place and Raheem is getting beaten up every week. I'd also like to see Henderson and Shelvey starting games, as they've both been immense when called upon. Gerrard is still a major culprit in not having the patience to build play slowly. Up top or the bench for him would be a bold move. Other than that we need our midfield to step up and kill games.

Absolutely livid right now.
At last someone seeing how the game really was. Yes at the end we were robbed, but I would hope BR would be fuming at how dumb many of our players were in their approach. Mindless balls, lack of control & panic all too often.
 

gasband

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We had a couple of chance to win the game even before the disallowed goal. I will not say we played badly but if there are one thing to pick on, it would be that Sterling's inexperience did show in moments in this game. He was trying to anticipate the ball for the clearance but as a result left Phil Neville without any marker to have a free shot. His finishing from the fantastic pass from Enrique was atrocious even for a 17 yr old. For a 17yr old, we should not expect the world of him but he probably needs to work on his composure and team play but certainly he did make some contributions to the game and he will be one of the brightest stars we will ever have if he works on those small technicalities

As for Suarez, what can I criticize about a man who scored 2 goals? Except that he can choose to continue playing his football quietly or continue doing those things he did. The dive in front of Moyes was funny and that wanker deserves it for his prematch comments and is made to eat his words when his own captain dived. But these "retalitations" will not win him any more brownie points with the referees or officials who are already biased against him.
 

NZred

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I'm sorry, but enough is fucking enough.

The constant screw up of decisions from officials as a whole has got to stop.

It's time refs and the idiots running up and down the line are held fully accountable for these sort of errors. They aren't few and between as the Chelsea vs Scum match today proved. 3 costly decisions in the space 2 games on the same god dam day HAS to be cause for concern. Refs are not getting better, in fact if anything, they are getting considerably worse! it just isn't good enough.

The two drops we had stolen from us today could be the difference between Europe and nothing and the point Chelsea were robbed of could be the difference between 1st and 2nd.

This simply cannot continue to ruin our game the way it is. Refs can constantly make horrible calls and not be punished for it.
 
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Unfortunately there is no accountability when it comes to officiating. Despite being paid professionals too often the referees are made out to be some sort of victims who are only doing this job out of charity and therefore should be shown leniency whenever possible in supposedly the hardest job in the world.

And what's even worse is that poor performances (esp if they end up favouring certain teams) are rewarded and sometimes good performances punished if criticised by particular managers. Really is quite blatant sometimes and the fact that there has been no concerted effort to made by the FA to improve officiating or by the media to expose this obvious bias is really disgraceful and turning me off football.
 

Dr_J

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Those saying we didn't play well and that we were piss poor, that's fine, you have the right to make that opinion. But please do not tell me we did not deserve to win that game. As far as I know, the team with the most goals at the end of the game wins and that should have been us. We took that opportunity in the dying moments and capitalized. That was brilliant. We went and won the match. Fcking horrendous officiating screwed us. We deserved the points, we scored more goals. For once we get to steal the spoils at the end, and then we get robbed. It's infuriating.
 

shachart

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i just saw Moyes reaction to the suarez goal celebration :
"I thought it was great,I actually quite liked that and it is the sort of thing I'd have done if I'd scored. "
hats off for the man that can get a joke, and for publicly critisizing his captain for diving. no double standard.

got back some of the respect i had for him.
[sup] [/sup]
[sup] [/sup]
 

Alvintype

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No way. Fellaini was clumsy and should have been done on a number of occasions. He tried to bully Allen all game and fair play to Joe for having a crack. When Allen tried to give some physicality back he got penalised. Shelvey should have started though to give him a lift, Suso and Sahin weren't up to the physical side of it.
 

HarryFloyd

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Though disappointed at being robbed in the end, and while agreeing with the team going missing in the second half of the first half, it must be kept in mind that many of the young lads got a good footballing lesson today.

They are inexperienced players who have hardly been in positions such as these, where your natural game has been nullified by better and experienced players playing on their home turf in a derby no less. I suppose a few of them were overwhelmed by the occasion and this experience should have a lot to teach them if they are willing to learn.
 

frugtkompot

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There's a lot of emotion in this thread already, but aside from the fact that referees once again decided the football match for us, I think we also have to be critical of our own performance. Everton deserved a victory here, and I wasn't at all impressed with how we performed.

Basically, this easily accounts to our weakest performance of the season. It's the first time that I've seen us so reactive and pragmatic. We were hanging on by a thread more often than not, kicking it long at every opportunity. I understand that it was a very heated match and Everton played it fast and physical, but we should have made more of an effort to slow the pace of the match. When we were up 0-2 it would have been a perfert time to pass it around slowly and considerably. Instead Everton were allowed to build attack after attack and kept crossing it into the box. They're really good at this and on his day Fellaini is simply unplayable.

Also, this showed what having a young team can do to you. There were a clear lack of experience on the pitch today, and the heat of the occasion looked to get to a lot of the younger players. I like Sahin and Suso, but they were by yesterday's match a luxury mainly for games that we know we can control at the moment.

Still. Everton is always difficult and their squad this season looks very well balanced. I'll take the point.
 

charleslee89

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How do you even think to make that call? What the hell is the linesman looking at. What could he possibly have seen there, he's on by a good yard. Coates is a yard on, and Suarez is a yard on. What a fckin call that is. ROBBERY that is. Fck spending in the transfer market, lets take 20 mil and ship it to the FA. HERE YA GO LADS, GET US IN THE TOP 4 NOW YA MORONS.
i don't think 20 mil is enough to solve liverpool's problems....we need a really good striker and defensive midfielder which both can prove more than 20 million ( and pay them some obscene wages ), we would also need to look at the coaching department as well.....

For me the question is really simple. Do FIFA/UEFA/The FA want games to be settled on the basis of correct results or not. If the answer is not, then they just need to keep doing nothing. Nobody is telling me in that situation, when a 'goal' has been scored and the ball is dead, the referee can't get some help. By the time the players had finished celebrating you could have had a second opinion from a fourth official watching a delayed feed. The goal today was ruled out by a weak man buckling under pressure. He didn't wave offside until Osman, and 20,000 Evertonians, told him to. He'll probably be punished by the FA, but they are more culpable for not ensuring that the game is played with every chance of the right decisions are made. Tennis, Cricket, Rugby. The list of sports that have embraced technology to correctly settle decisions goes on and on. The more football consistently puts human beings in the position of having to make split second decisions on one viewing of an incident taking place at speed, more pissed off I get with it, and the more I wonder if it has any basis being called a sport at all. I'm sick to the fucking back teeth of platitudes like 'we didn't deserve it anyway' or 'these things even out'. We've had more than our share of last minute sucker punches, and we know better than most that you have to look at our own failings in these circumstances. I don't give a fuck if Everton 'deserved' to win. You might as well decide football matches with a panel of judges in that case. I care about the correct results according to the rules of the game. So should the authorities and week after week, month after month and year after year they fail to act.
Punished? i dun think so when the refs can simply point to human error as a magnificent excuse....besides, it's very mind boggling that FIFA and UEFA just somehow refuses to employ the latest video technology...folks at fifa and uefa are very smart, so what is stopping them from doing so for the top flights around the world?

For humans not to do something so obvious to improve the sport could mean two things, it's either misplaced pride of having the sport be the only one without latest technology or there are money to be made for not using the technology...

Don't know about anyone else - but the whole Suarez 'thing' is getting beyond a joke. The commentators on TV were a joke first it was disgusting of Suarez to celebrate the way he did - then he should have been sent off for the challenge on Distin (which looked unintentional, based on the replay and his reaction) and then to cap it off they said that ruling our goal offside was probably things getting evened out because the scorer i.e Suarez probably still shouldn't be on the field. And yet when others made rash challenges and were only yellow carded it was good referring and when he had coins at him it hardly warranted a mention............ He's no saint but quite frankly the treatment of this guy by the English as a whole is quite embarrassing.
If the FA is the watchmen of the league, so who watches the watchmen?
 

nzkop1te

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not sure if it's been mentioned before, but was it the same linesman that gave a throw in to Everton which led to their first goal, which should have been a Liverpool throw in?
 

Hope in your heart

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Rodgers on Suarez' goal celebration in front of Moyes: 'that was Scouse humour...'

lol
 



TassieRed

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"Surely, when he's going to watch the images he's going to realise that he

made big mistakes.

"We are massively disappointed that these key decisions were wrong. It

always seems to be in favour of the opposition. That's a massive

disadvantage for us. I thought at 2-2, we looked like the team that were

probably going to win the game. You don't want the referees to be a big

influence in the game, you let the two teams play each other and play a

good game, that's what everybody loves to watch."




Brendan Rogers telling it like it is. Nice work BR, get on the blower to Mike Riley and rip him a new one.

Oh wait! That wasn't BR. That was Roberto di Matteo fuming at being robbed against United today.

Face it guys, refs make mistakes every single match. Every single week. All the wide world over.


And they will continue to do so. We are not being persecuted here. They are not "against us". This happens to other teams as well. And until

FIFA introduces some sort of technology to help fallible human beings, nothing much is going to change.
 

gasband

The Singaporean Liverpool Never Managed To Sign
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[font=times new roman']"Surely, when he's going to watch the images he's going to realise that he[/font]
[font=times new roman']made big mistakes.[/font]
[font=times new roman']"We are massively disappointed that these key decisions were wrong. It[/font]
[font=times new roman']always seems to be in favour of the opposition. That's a massive [/font]
[font=times new roman']disadvantage for us. I thought at 2-2, we looked like the team that were[/font]
[font=times new roman']probably going to win the game. You don't want the referees to be a big [/font]
[font=times new roman']influence in the game, you let the two teams play each other and play a[/font]
[font=times new roman']good game, that's what everybody loves to watch."[/font]



[font=times new roman']Brendan Rogers telling it like it is. Nice work BR, get on the blower to Mike Riley and rip him a new one.[/font]
[font=times new roman']Oh wait! That wasn't BR. That was Roberto di Matteo fuming at being robbed against United today.[/font]
[font=times new roman']Face it guys, refs make mistakes every single match. Every single week. All the wide world over. [/font]

[font=times new roman']And they will continue to do so. We are not being persecuted here. They are not "against us". This happens to other teams as well. And until [/font]
[font=times new roman']FIFA introduces some sort of technology to help fallible human beings, nothing much is going to change.[/font]
As much as I understand why most of the fans are shouting conspiracy!, I agree with you. Whatever truth there is in the conspiracy theory, we just got to move on and continue playing well. Like I have said, even before the bad decision from the linesman, we had chances to win the game, so we cannot say that we, not winning the game, was totally down to the ref. What do we expect, that the FA to come out and say, hey yeah you know what, its true, we and the refs were deliberately made decisions against Liverpool. As much as I detest and marvel at the amount of decisions that go against us, I still would not want to delve into the 'conspiracy theory' theory.
 

EdWood

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There's a lot of emotion in this thread already, but aside from the fact that referees once again decided the football match for us, I think we also have to be critical of our own performance. Everton deserved a victory here, and I wasn't at all impressed with how we performed.

Basically, this easily accounts to our weakest performance of the season. It's the first time that I've seen us so reactive and pragmatic. We were hanging on by a thread more often than not, kicking it long at every opportunity. I understand that it was a very heated match and Everton played it fast and physical, but we should have made more of an effort to slow the pace of the match. When we were up 0-2 it would have been a perfert time to pass it around slowly and considerably. Instead Everton were allowed to build attack after attack and kept crossing it into the box. They're really good at this and on his day Fellaini is simply unplayable.

Also, this showed what having a young team can do to you. There were a clear lack of experience on the pitch today, and the heat of the occasion looked to get to a lot of the younger players. I like Sahin and Suso, but they were by yesterday's match a luxury mainly for games that we know we can control at the moment.

Still. Everton is always difficult and their squad this season looks very well balanced. I'll take the point.
Having Lucas (or a proper stand in) playing in the hole would have allowed us to control or close out the game when we were in a winning position. Without a DM in the side, all the opposition has to do is simply apply pressure through centre midfield and we usually crumble; we will always be vulnerable (we were in exactly the same position last season when we lost Lucas) to teams who want to have a go at us until this vital position is filled.

Sorry to bang on about this folks but it just seems so obvious to me.
 

daddydave

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Throw give to Everton for second goal was not an Everton throw at all
A really balls was made calling our third goal off side, useless linesman and just as useless ref for agreeing.
Saurez did stamp on Distin but it did seem accidental from the way he reacted and the fact he wasn't looking at him when it happened.
Side show bob on the other hand clearly intentionally kick Allen while he was on the ground but nothing was said about it.

Liverpool really need the points again today. Yes they could have played better but this was not the reason for losing 2 points. In the end we were robbed by referreeing decisions and not for the first time this season.
 

Mascot88

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Just a thought, but poor officiating on just one day (yesterday) now accounts for four points of the gap between us and United.