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POST MATCH discussion: Everton 2-2 Liverpool

RedSeven

On the one road
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So you mean Lucas is not a good cover back in the days those 2 and Gerrard has a cover back then too, we always have cover back in the days, adequate. What do you mean had very little cover? We are facing that issue far more than we had back then. Keane and then Babel/Kuyt/Benayoun who can all slot into the attacking midfield or supporting striker.
C,Mon Eddie,most of us thought Lucas was crap back then.None of the other 4 would ever be thought of as your typical midfielder,as in the type AnfielderRdDreamer is talking about.
 


Anfield rd Dreamer

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So you mean Lucas is not a good cover back in the days those 2 and Gerrard has a cover back then too, we always have cover back in the days, adequate. What do you mean had very little cover? We are facing that issue far more than we had back then. Keane and then Babel/Kuyt/Benayoun who can all slot into the attacking midfield or supporting striker.
Ok name the 7 seven midfielders that were options for our 3 man midfield then. After the first 3 I can think of Lucas and Plessis. Benayoun could move inside and fill in for Gerrard. Thats it. You really dont think we have better strength in depth now? We are playing our 7th choice centre mid as one of our starting attackers and the other 6 options have all been capped at senior international level despite only one being over 25.

Edit; Keane, Babel and Kuyt (a starter in another area of the pitch) would of required switching from 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 so dont consider them appropriate cover for central midfield as they were the cover/options for the wide and CF positions.
 

Quagmire81

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Think you misunderstood their point that midfield wouldnt have anywhere near enough defensive stability its our 3 worst midfielders when it comes to defensive capabilities.
I got your point, I'm just not a fan of that notion. I rather want us to focus on our own play first instead of the opponents.
Having three midfielders, that are good on the ball, have good understanding of the game, and not scared to go forward and important can make things happen, is something I missed for ages. In the end I'm sure we will score more goals than concede with that attitude. Besides we have a good defense as long as our backs remember their first priority is defending and not acting like wing players, I'm sure we would do fine.
I know I'm dreaming and it's not gonna happen, but whole thing about having defenders attack and midfielders defend, is just plain weird when you think about it.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I got your point, I'm just not a fan of that notion. I rather want us to focus on our own play first instead of the opponents.
Having three midfielders, that are good on the ball, have good understanding of the game, and not scared to go forward and important can make things happen, is something I missed for ages. In the end I'm sure we will score more goals than concede with that attitude. Besides we have a good defense as long as our backs remember their first priority is defending and not acting like wing players, I'm sure we would do fine.
I know I'm dreaming and it's not gonna happen, but whole thing about having defenders attack and midfielders defend, is just plain weird when you think about it.
Haha get you. Wish football did work like that. Might help if instead of thinking in terms of 4-3-3 as in the formation we play but to think of the roles of the players in the shape of a W at the back and another W shape at the top.

W at the bottom you have the two most defensive players on the park as the two bottom points and the next level up (the wing backs and the DM) as the top three points of the W.

W higher up the park you have two defensively aware attacking players as the bottom points of the W and the three most attacking roles on top of it so:
W
W
Sterling Suarez Suso
---Sahin--Gerrard--
J'son--Lucas--Kelly
----Agger---Skrtel--

That make sense? Or have I just wasted my time posting gobbledegook?
 

EdWood

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Haha the anger over Gerrard comparing Evertons style to Stokes seems quite funny when you see the "long ball table" as composed by stat maniacs. 1st Stoke, 2nd Reading, 3rd Everton.... 19th Liverpool and 20th Swansea!!!
I reckon Stevie was out of order though on the grounds that you shouldn't mock the afflcted! :lol:
 



Rambler

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Haha the anger over Gerrard comparing Evertons style to Stokes seems quite funny when you see the "long ball table" as composed by stat maniacs. 1st Stoke, 2nd Reading, 3rd Everton.... 19th Liverpool and 20th Swansea!!!
Not a sensible comment though given the match analysis. These sort of comments have a habit of coming back to bite you.

Everton Liverpool

Possession
56.2% 43.8%

Passes
400 314


Passing accuracy
78.5% 76.8%

Proportion of long passes
13.8% 14.6%
 

SoueysTash

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Define how "long pass" has been calculated? Any pass that left the ground? Travelled more than XX yards?
 

Quagmire81

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Haha get you. Wish football did work like that. Might help if instead of thinking in terms of 4-3-3 as in the formation we play but to think of the roles of the players in the shape of a W at the back and another W shape at the top.

W at the bottom you have the two most defensive players on the park as the two bottom points and the next level up (the wing backs and the DM) as the top three points of the W.

W higher up the park you have two defensively aware attacking players as the bottom points of the W and the three most attacking roles on top of it so:
W
W
Sterling Suarez Suso
---Sahin--Gerrard--
J'son--Lucas--Kelly
----Agger---Skrtel--

That make sense? Or have I just wasted my time posting gobbledegook?
I understand the formation completly, my national side have played it the last ten years, my local team has played it the last half decade, and so has my team at heart (LFC). I'm just questioning the effective nature of it, that's it really. Cause neither teams are succesful playing it :D

As I have got to known the formation, it demands a lot from the front four, and seeing how hard it is for us to score is evidence of that.
Last season it was the same. There must be a way to score goals easier with this formation than how we have used it so far.
A answer could be a flat back four and a more attacking midfield, I would love to see how that would work out.
How we use the formation now demands too much from our front four to win, and too little from our midfield-two and that hurt our overall chance of winning, and it's expected we struggle if two of the front four are under 20, and one is well over 30 by now.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Not a sensible comment though given the match analysis. These sort of comments have a habit of coming back to bite you.

Everton Liverpool

Possession
56.2% 43.8%

Passes
400 314


Passing accuracy
78.5% 76.8%

Proportion of long passes
13.8% 14.6%
According to opta they had 24 we had 19. I have no idea how its worked out. Whiskey nose said same as Gerrard after their game too.

I understand the formation completly, my national side have played it the last ten years, my local team has played it the last half decade, and so has my team at heart (LFC). I'm just questioning the effective nature of it, that's it really. Cause neither teams are succesful playing it :D

As I have got to known the formation, it demands a lot from the front four, and seeing how hard it is for us to score is evidence of that.
Last season it was the same. There must be a way to score goals easier with this formation than how we have used it so far.
A answer could be a flat back four and a more attacking midfield, I would love to see how that would work out.
How we use the formation now demands too much from our front four to win, and too little from our midfield-two and that hurt our overall chance of winning, and it's expected we struggle if two of the front four are under 20, and one is well over 30 by now.
The defence and attack would become isolated from each other. Our defence would be over run and our attack would never see enough of the ball.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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With all due respect, thats where I disagree.
Fair do's all about opinions although I will point out that my opinion mirrors what most managers do with their teams. Who knows maybe if an when somebody tries things that way it may work amazing but Im doubtful to be honest mate.
 

spizfromoz

Es maluco, filho da puta!
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Just came into this debate. First time I've seen a full game with Fellaini. Simply put the man is more an animal than a footballer. How did he get away with some of those cynical hacks?
 

Quagmire81

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Fair do's all about opinions although I will point out that my opinion mirrors what most managers do with their teams. Who knows maybe if an when somebody tries things that way it may work amazing but Im doubtful to be honest mate.
You right, lots of manager use the formation, but there can only be one winner. Maybe it's more important which players the manager choice to use or better yet which type of players, than the formation itself. Trying to mimic a winning team's formation may not be the way forward for every team.
 

King Aldo

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Just came into this debate. First time I've seen a full game with Fellaini. Simply put the man is more an animal than a footballer. How did he get away with some of those cynical hacks?
That's the way he plays, he's been playing like that for years.

I think he is a great player, a real bully who is the main inspiration behind Everton. If he was one of ours we would love him

Having said that I fully expect him to go to the MANCS in January. Wait and see.