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POST MATCH discussion: Everton 2-2 Liverpool

LFC-Orlando

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I'm with Soziosche here. I think in a rational analysis, we let our principles down and ignored our philosophy. From Jones forward. Rodgers made changes needed to better control the game defensively, but it did nothing to help us control the ball.

Still, for me right now the time for rational analysis hasn't come. We won that game, whether we deserved to or not.
Hmm. The same guys we praise at how well they deliver in pass and move and death by football are all now incapable.

Congrats to the guys. YNWA
 

Prolix

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You said it was our players fault as they did not play possession and a passing game. So if there is no other reason why they didnt, they are not capable of it.

What's the most plausible explanation as to why the same players you, me and almost everyone are praising and are slowly getting better results?

There's a style that fits one opposition and another for another.

Or based on your posts, are you a closet anti Gerrard long pass approach. Come out and say it if you believe our captain is the culprit.
I have said as much, so there's nothing 'closet' about it. lol

But you're misunderstanding my point. My point isn't that those players aren't able to play the passing game, my point is that they didn't. It was a combination of Everton's physicality, of course, but also a simple lack of thinking. We played with passion not intelligence. No need to replace players, and I don't appreciate you making what I'm saying that hyperbolic. We needed the good players that we have to play as they have shown they can. They didn't do that.
 

Prolix

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Hmm. The same guys we praise at how well they deliver in pass and move and death by football are all now incapable.

Congrats to the guys. YNWA
Where the hell are you getting this 'incapable' nonsense? I'm saying that they didn't play how I know they can, that's why I'm so frustrated.

Edit: Sorry for snapping a bit at you just now, I'm frustrated that I'm not explaining this clearly and you're misinterpreting what I'm saying.
 

Schudelfufli

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You said it was our players fault as they did not play possession and a passing game. So if there is no other reason why they didnt, they are not capable of it.

What's the most plausible explanation as to why the same players you, me and almost everyone are praising and are slowly getting better results?

There's a style that fits one opposition and another for another.

Or based on your posts, are you a closet anti Gerrard long pass approach. Come out and say it if you believe our captain is the culprit.
Listen mate, you don't have to be anti Gerrard to see that the entire team played with no intelligence or patience when a 2-0 lead was the perfect springboard for possessing them to death, which we've done to many other teams this season, including United and City.
 

T.C.B

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I am literally fuming, I celebrated that goal like we had just won the Champions League Final, come back in the room, its still 2-2, WHAT THE FUCK!! I'm raging!
I did exactly the same. Ran around screaming my head off only to come back in to see it disallowed. Shame.....wrong decision. Everton got away with murder all game. Swarez was awesome if greedy at times. Raheem should have scored. Probably a fair result on the balance of play. I fucking hate Moyes even more then Slur Alex. Credit to Brendan because he made the right subs I thought. Personally I would have started Shelvey for that bit of added bite. Suso and Sahin not the thr best options in this type of blood and guts game. Nice to see Enrique back to form. Glen back to the right back spot when he returns.
 

Red Armada

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[background=rgb(238, 238, 238)]Moyes on Suarez's disallowed goal: " You've got to remember he dives around a lot, if he didn't do this he would get the goal, he might learn from it"[/background]

Can anyone confirm the above quote ? I've picked it up from RAWK and i just can't believe that it's real.
 

Mascot88

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Very big of Moyes to admit that they were lucky to get the draw, and the offside flag was wrong.

I bet he gave Neville a right bollocking for making him look like an idiot after all his diving talk.
 

AnfieldCat

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[font=Lucida Grande'][background=rgb(238, 238, 238)]Moyes on Suarez's disallowed goal: " You've got to remember he dives around a lot, if he didn't do this he would get the goal, he might learn from it"[/background][/font]

Can anyone confirm the above quote ? I've picked it up from RAWK and i just can't believe that it's real.
My blood is boiling at just the mere thought of him saying that, I'm going to investigate.
 

LFC-Orlando

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Where the hell are you getting this 'incapable' nonsense? I'm saying that they didn't play how I know they can, that's why I'm so frustrated.
Ok fine

So the whole world could see what our issue was in the first half which explains why we couldn't play. So why are you frustrated? Maybe because it's so evident that the wrong set up existed in our MF?
 

Barnestormer

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haven't enjoyed a goal celebration like this since bellamy against barcelona -" the nutter with the putter"
it surpasses when Klinsman did somethign similar at Spurs. Pure class. Suarez is very clever - he even kept the coin that was thrown at him. Needs to get a bit cleverer though; noticed he is trying to stay on his feet more.

Still furious by the injustice. We might as well stop repeating it though, it will just get worse for us in our heads.
 

TTorroro

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Listen mate, you don't have to be anti Gerrard to see that the entire team played with no intelligence or patience when a 2-0 lead was the perfect springboard for possessing them to death, which we've done to many other teams this season, including United and City.
Very right mate. I was thinking all throughout the first half it's time to slow the game down and waste their energy physical intimidation style with some sharp passing but the ball gets pinged rather too eagerly to the front . Player , plan or manager fault?
 

Artrain

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Well, not too pissed off if I am honest

You leave too much to chance being too reliant on match officials in the PL, it's fast paced and things get missed. The bottom line is you can't go about throwing 2 goal leads away before half time if you have serious pretentions about being a top side. It was a bit woeful at times there, though the tactical switch at HT may have saved us from crumbling, a plus for the manager there

Was impressed by Suarez, seemed a fresher being this weekend and think the belly flop in front of Moyes was hilarious, best way to deal with these things is with humour I believe rather than get too chippy about things. This era we are in is a fallow one for us and it does mean that it may feel we are battling the fates a tad, but getting points on the board is the only way out, rather than always kicking off about stuff

It's a solid point on the road, last year the Rodwell red swung it for us, shit happens. Need though to win our home ties, no excuses there, and no hiding places either
Brilliant post mate, 'gree with every word. We don't have that much of a right to cry blasphemy when we let go of a two goal lead in a few minutes. There is no covering the fact that we are still not good enough. But that is not meant in a negative sense, because it makes me want to see how we will be when we are good enough, or at least playing like a proper team.

As for Suarez, its just priceless to have a guy who takes in all the derision he gets as a challenge for himself instead of buckling down under pressure. Wish few more had an attitude like him and we'd never have to worry about confidence issues.
 

WrinkledMind

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Ok fine

So the whole world could see what our issue was in the first half which explains why we couldn't play. So why are you frustrated? Maybe because it's so evident that the wrong set up existed in our MF?
Sorry to cut in.But you are really not getting it.
Apart from the physical dominance from Everton, we got sucked into playing hoofballs.
The Goalie and even our Players.
There were so many times in the second half, when players had a lot of time on their hands and yet each and every one wanted to play a hoof or a Hollywood ball.
And that was wrong, because we kept giving the possession because of it.
 

Prolix

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Let me try to explain where I'm coming from:
  • I think the team we had out there, although less than ideally suited for how physically Everton played, were more than capable of dominating possession and killing the game.
  • The frustration comes from those players not playing intelligently; we allowed the passion of the game to get to us, which led to poor decision making and a breakdown of our style of play.
  • Even subsequent to changing the players on the pitch (Sahin and Suso off), our more 'physical' midfield still allowed Everton to dictate the terms of the game: namely, that it was end-to-end, direct, and physical bordering on violent.
  • If we had kept our headspace clear and focused, I think that all of our players were more than capable of killing the game and forcing Everton to chase. We just didn't execute that strategy.
  • Players were dreadfully guilty of not looking for the simple, possession passes which kill the fire of the game and allow us to exert control. We didn't play with patience. We knocked the ball forward at each opportunity and relentlessly looked for the killer ball.
  • As a result, the ball kept coming at us and coming at us and coming at us. The more pressure we invited by playing foolishly, the more we panicked and didn't use our heads.
 

LFC-Orlando

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Sorry to cut in.But you are really not getting it.
Apart from the physical dominance from Everton, we got sucked into playing hoofballs.
The Goalie and even our Players.
There were so many times in the second half, when players had a lot of time on their hands and yet each and every one wanted to play a hoof or a Hollywood ball.
And that was wrong, because we kept giving the possession because of it.
The HT analysis verified the cause of our inneftiveness. Refer to our changes and setup.

That plus the hot bloodied nature of the opposition led to the challenge.

Very pleased with our response. Shows we are growing as a young team.
 

Schudelfufli

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Very right mate. I was thinking all throughout the first half it's time to slow the game down and waste their energy physical intimidation style with some sharp passing but the ball gets pinged rather too eagerly to the front . Player , plan or manager fault?
Hard to say. Feels like everyone overwhelmed by occassion. Suarez, Sterling and Gerrard just cry out for countering and rest of team was naive enough to give into that impulse. Thought Rodgers could have told them to stop effectively, but he just decided to change shape and be more defensively solid while changing nothing about midfield decision-making or style.
 

RMP

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[font=Lucida Grande'][background=rgb(238, 238, 238)]Moyes on Suarez's disallowed goal: " You've got to remember he dives around a lot, if he didn't do this he would get the goal, he might learn from it"[/background][/font]

Can anyone confirm the above quote ? I've picked it up from RAWK and i just can't believe that it's real.
Nah he didn't say that. He said that it shouldn't have been a freekick in the first place
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20020076
 

WrinkledMind

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Last word on this.
Not turning on the team or other posters.I understand we are a young side and have a young manager who is still early in his job.

Just picking out mistakes, solely based on today's performance.
 

Prolix

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Last word on this.
Not turning on the team or other posters.I understand we are a young side and have a young manager who is still early in his job.

Just picking out mistakes, solely based on today's performance.
Absolutely, want to make this clear as well. I think that it was a very difficult environment for the young players in particular, and I can understand them struggling to keep calm. My criticism isn't of individuals in that sense, but the whole team just lost the plot.

As Mascot points out in the Rodgers thread, we were 2-0 up and couldn't smother the game to death. That's a fundamental failure to execute. We just need to control our emotions next time, is all. Content with the point, disappointed at the injustice of not getting all three, but maintaining some perspective on our performance.
 

Schudelfufli

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BR: "The tactical change gave us more stability against their long balls, and more bodies in counter attack.""
This is what bugs me. The change was tailored to emphasize our countering quality. Understand the need to adjust, but it should have been made with the thought of controlling the ball and eventually taking advantage while keeping them off the ball.
 

AnfieldCat

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Just heard Moyes on 5 Live, what a wanker, he says Luis will have to do that diving celebration in front of a lot of managers aswell. He also said Luis should have been sent off and that it wasn't a freekick on Gerrard in the first place, hope he gets the Man U job when that old twat retires, he'll suit it!
 



Arminius

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I wasn't just the goal. It was the officials falling for all Evertons dirty tricks all afternoon. Persistent fouling, simulation, and gamesmanship and they let them get away with it.
Phil Neville has driven me away from the game...
 

ChicagoRed

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This is what bugs me. The change was tailored to emphasize our countering quality. Understand the need to adjust, but it should have been made with the thought of controlling the ball and eventually taking advantage while keeping them off the ball.
I thought we hit them on the counter to perfection. On two occasions, Shelvey and Gerrard dribbled themselves out of a break on their own.
 

Anthony

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Brendan Rodgers expressed his pride in the youthful Liverpool side who were cruelly denied a memorable victory over neighbours Everton on a turbulent afternoon at Goodison Park.



The Reds raced into a two-goal lead at the home of the Blues but were pegged back before the interval and in the 94th minute were deprived of a perfectly good winner when Luis Suarez smashed home a Sebastian Coates knock-down.
And while Rodgers could not hide his frustration at the last-gasp decision, he remained buoyed by his side's battling performance.
"Obviously I'm bitterly disappointed [with the last minute disallowed goal] because it was a brilliant game and I thought we stepped up well in the second half," he told his post-match press conference.
"I was so disappointed that it didn't count because for me it was an easy decision. The ball has come from deep and it is in the air for quite a long time. The official is just looking along the line and Coates is clearly onside when he heads it.
"It's a wonderful finish [from Suarez] and he should have had his second goal of the game.
"It would have been a well-deserved and brilliant win for us. Instead, we are frustrated but at the same time I am very proud. I look at my team here today in a real cauldron of an atmosphere and how they stood up to everything against a very, very experienced team.
"Raheem Sterling is 17 years old, Suso is 18, Andre Wisdom 19, Jonjo Shelvey 20, while Joe Allen and Jordan Henderson are 22. They are all young players who will only grow and get better and better.
"So it was another terrific stride forward for us. We haven't had confirmation yet [as to why the goal was ruled-out] and I will certainly ask the question. But it's gone now, so I'm not going to dwell on it."
At the interval, Rodgers withdrew Nuri Sahin and Suso and replaced them with Coates and Shelvey.
The changes saw the Reds shift their formation to three at the back while Sterling moved into the more central role, playing in behind Suarez.
And the manager revealed how he made the switch in order to add more aerial prowess to his back-line, in the form of Coates, rather than to subdue Kevin Mirallas, who had posed a real threat to the Reds throughout the first half.
"I did it to deal with two tall strikers [Nikica Jelavic and Marouane Fellaini]," explained Rodgers. "Everton just smashed the ball up to them so it was as simple as that.
"They played direct, so I felt we needed that extra body and Seb could come and play central to pull our two centre-backs closer together. It also allowed us to be offensively set up to go and play as well.
"We knew there was going to be a wee bit of room on the side of the midfield but my concern was that whenever they had the ball, it was constantly thumped into the box, so we organised the game to make them play deeper.
"I thought we played well in the early stages and we broke through their pressure to get a terrific goal. [For the goal] we moved the ball from side to side and then got in. I thought it was a foul on Raheem as he was arriving but Luis has picked the ball up at the back-post and got the goal."
Suarez was issued with a yellow card for a foul on Sylvain Distin in the second half and Rodgers felt that anything more severe than a caution would have been unfair.
He said: "I didn't think it was a red. Sometimes you get that with strikers, where they are just a fraction too late."
Asked what he made of the Uruguayan's dramatic celebration following the opening goal of the game, Rodgers replied: "It was Scouse wit." :lol:
 

icemanwan

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It was not about offside but foul by Coates. Still I think ref made the wrong call.
It was the linesman who flagged offside. The ref never gave a foul on Coates so the goal should have stood. This was well explained (for ESPN viewers in Asia) by Steve McMahon post match.

this season its the ref, last season the woodwork, next season the balls will flat out.

for me, this game was about BR. this is his first major derby. he didn't take into account how physical this match will be, and the atmosphere, so he trusted the same line up that worked so far. sahin, suso, wisdom sterling. all young players and not built for a physical match ( not yet anyway ) simply couldn't adapt to the game. shelvy and coates were better options.
to his credict, BR under stood it, not only making 2 changes at half time, but rearranging the formation on the move.

this is the price you pay for a young manager, i am very happy that BR is a good enough manager to spot his mistakes and be able to correct them in game. not many managers can. this is a good sign for the future.
If BR got the formation and tactics wrong, how would you explain us getting 2 goals earlier on. The game evolved, and I agree with you that BR had the balls to change it in the 2nd half by bringing in Coates and Shelvey. We needed protection from the aerial threat Everton posed. Well done BR.

But no way did we settle for a draw as the last few minutes saw us gain the upper hand and should have won it had it been for the offside decision. We even had chances in the second half with Sterling 1 v 1 against Howard. The players deserve praise for putting such a brave performance considering half had never even played a derby before.

Suarez MOTM. The goal celebration was classic, touche to Moyes.