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Post-match discussion: LFC - Aston Villa 2 - 2

anglian_red

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If that's what passes for a red card we may as well all give up.

That'll get overturned if United can be arsed to appeal.
 

cw37

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Well things are changing when United are on the wrong end of a red card decision. It was never a red tbh. But tough. They are scum anyway.
 

craigbellamy

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I hope not. Henry could be forgiven for wondering why Lucas wasn't playing at the start. It begged the question of why we would need one if we weren't using the one we already had - and we looked a very different side with Lucas on and the shape more fundamentally sound. No 4-man front is ever going to look good if they don't have the ball, and our time of possession was the lowest all season in the first half.

Takes some goddamn doing to produce that stat for Villa...[/quote

You are right pointing out the use of Lucas but, we need depth and with the favoured formation of the second half showed having a true dm back up is needed. I'm reading that Lucas could be out for a good while and Gerrard showed that it didn't work with him there.
 

Claymenza

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Why don't we bench gerrard and try allen and Henderson as a pair?

Lucas is injured so we won't have to worry about his input until the summer when we can salvage some transfer money out of him.
 

NZred

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Level on points with Spurs. A team who has received a fair number of hammerings this season. Our great start is now nothing more than that, a start. The wheels haven't come off, but they are wobbling. If we don't get 4th this season, we wont within the next 10 years.
 

costared

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Claymenza said:
Why don't we bench gerrard and try allen and Henderson as a pair?

Lucas is injured so we won't have to worry about his input until the summer when we can salvage some transfer money out of him.
I believe it was the tactics that were our biggest problem first half, no one seemed to really know what was required of them. Had we been given that pen for hand ball early on it may have settled us a bit , who knows. Don't forget the reason BR decided to try Gerrard at DM was because Lucas has been so poor this season and if we had played with a 3 man mid field it might have been a different story. Not saying it would, just might.We may never know.
Feel sorry for Lucas though, hope his injury is not to bad.He worked hard to get over the last one and his failure to return to form has not been for lack of effort.
 

Semmy

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Full match posted by Vietmoment at fm.lfc.vn thanks again fine sir!
 

tesh

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Have't commented yet but I thought I'd wait till the annoyance had subsided.

We were poor. From the manager down. The only ones that were ok were Skrtel, Hendo, Sturridge and possible Sterling.

Cissiko in particular was just plain bad.
Gerrard was a fault for the second, it was his man that sneaked in from behind. As a holding midfielder he was completely unable to do the job. Not mobile enough dosen't recycle well or quickly enough and does not have the legs and/or positional awareness.
Couthinio was completely ineffectual.
Johnson offered nothing going forward.
Toure was, well, at least did his job to the best of his abilities.
Allen was actually ok when he came on.
Sturridge, Suarez and Sterling were good.
Mignolet dosen't fill me with any great confidence.

BR, should be held responsible for the 2 points dropped! Bad tactics! If Lucas was fit then he should have been on from the beginning.

Rant over.

p.s. let's see who we don't get in the transfer window...
 

basil1492

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Late to the post match review as i've been out all day and had to watch the game recorded yesterday. For me this result came down to the formation. BR says he wants possession football yet played one of the worst formations possible to keep possession of the ball. The 424 made loads of players look bad. The top of the pitch was too crowded, the midfield non existent and the defense totally overrun.

With 4 up top any chance of an attacker running in behind such as Sterling is gone, there's just no space there. This made all 4 look bad especially Coutinho who even though he hasn't played great lately looked so bad it was unbelievable. The midfield i've gone into on the SG thread but basically no 2 man midfield will do well, especially when Hendo was obviously told to play as an attacking midfielder.

Kolo looked worse than i've ever seen him play because our defense was overrun so many times. Aly looked awkward and Glen didn't seem bothered again. Either we had 8 or more players playing worse than they have in a long while or the formation was to blame. I just don't understand it's use in this game. When we went 352 for a while it got better then better again second half when we went 433. I never ever want to see a 2 man midfield again whoever we play against.

From now till the end of the season we should play our game, let the opposition try to negate us. If BR wants to play Cou then a 4312 with Cou behind SAS is good plus we have options such as Alberto instead of Cou though with Lucas out we have fewer options for the mid 3. If he wants to play Sterling then a 433 looks better with Suarez left. Messing with the formation while we don't have the players is suicidal, i just hope this lesson sinks in.
 

jimbo

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NZred said:
Level on points with Spurs. A team who has received a fair number of hammerings this season. Our great start is now nothing more than that, a start. The wheels haven't come off, but they are wobbling. If we don't get 4th this season, we wont within the next 10 years.
Agree with this, surely surely surely Henry n co must see that we are close and if we don't get there goodbye To champions league for another few years. I just. Cannot believe such a great start and we are level with spurs who have sacked there manager few weeks ago??!!

Everton win tomorrow we are 5th.. alot of football to play but if we don't see any incomings this window at least 2 players then FSG can f*^* off because the team needs investment now not the summer!!! up until now have welcomed FSG but looking at our position and 1st team we need a DM and full back at least!!!
 

Poetry In Motion

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Just back. Made the journey down from Edinburgh yesterday; buzzing and optimistic, and was treated to the worst LFC first-half I've seen in a long time.

I think we overestimated ourselves, tactically in this one. People were crying out for Lucas not to play, and to try out Stevie, Hendo, Sterling, Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge all together.

Sounds tasty, but it inevitably means people will be uncertain in their roles. Coutinho only flourishes in the centre-attacking midfield/number 10 role. He was coming in from the left yesterday and he was pitifully wasteful. He had no eye for a pass and couldn't unlock any member of Villa's defence or deeper midfield. Can't fault Suarez and Sturridge again as they did what they could. On another day, Luis could've had another 2 or 3 goals in that game. I also can't fault Henderson's box-to-box work rate yesterday - and his passing on the day was above most of the squad's level. Sterling was also a bright spark going forward, he just needs to work on his final move. Gerrard isn't a holding midfielder - I think we all know that now (hopefully Brendan included). Poorest performance I've seen from Stevie in a while.

Cissokho and Johnson were worryingly shocking. I have no confidence in Cissokho, in defence or attack. He always looks lost, his first touch is dreadful and he doesn't seem to be able to tackle. Johnson has had a nasty habit for years of going forward, losing the ball and failing to track back - but yesterday he just looked disinterested and downright lazy. His marking was non-existent, he strutted around his zone with no spark to him at all. Hopefully we can get shot of him ASAP, inevitably at a cut-price (he'd be lucky to get in a top-half team) - but he's on premium wage and has been getting away with lacklustre performances and thinking he can walk into the XI for far too long.

Toure and Skrtel were both average. Skrtel, to his credit made a few key challenges and won a lot of headers. Toure looks a yard or two off the pace. Probably his age and fitness catching up with him. Frankly, I'm longing to see a completely changed back 4 from yesterday before too long. Once Enrique is back, I'd stick Flanno on the right, and even though they're both left-footed and don't seem to be picked together; I'd still have by far the most confidence in Agger and Sakho as our pairing (with Skrtel if we played a 3-5-2, which we probably will start seeing more of now Sturridge is back).

Truth be told, I'd consider benching Gerrard and Sterling against Everton. Throw in Joe Allen to push Hendo further forward and put Coutinho in the 10 role behind SAS. Can't point fingers at Brendan though. The guy has to juggle a squad fairly thin in depth, with the dilemma of rotation in systems, while still sticking to his attacking guns. Hats off to him. And the spirit from Daniel's goal onwards can't be faulted. Either team could've scored a third in the 2nd half and won the game.
 

WellRedKev

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Really disappointing.

The first half was a complete disaster and Brend Rodgers should be taking the blame for that. Far too attacking. Villa have not been bad away from home this season and we went out already counting the goals we were going to score in a one sided game. It didn't happen and clearly because we had no control in the midfield. They went fromd efense to attack with one or two passes.

Gerrard was brutal in the first half, that deep lying position might not be for him. He's too rash at times, he gave it away several times and choose the wrong passes too. He was enevr like a Pirlo or Xavi and hasn't the discipline to be that type of player. He might over time but it will be nerve racking for us as there will be a few mistakes along the way. Much better in second half and some of his passes showed us how much quality he has.

Joe Allen came on and really impressed me. We should eb playing three in the middle in every game. Allen, gerrard and Henderson for the derby, for the big games and also against the weaker teams. The formula for winning shouldn't really change and playing Sterling, Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge should never happen again.

Its a learning process and the manager will learn form that so i'm pretty confident we can still sustain a good challenge for fourth place.

Next game, onwards and upwards. six pointer against the bluenoses who have a tight game tonight by the way.

Rodgers indicated that they wanted two point average until the end of the season, we have had 7 points in the last three games so we're ahead of schedule.

I wouldn't play Suarez against Bournemouth, Saturday confirmed that even the special players need a wee time out every now and again, he cant score hat tricks in every game. He still was menacing and won us a penalty but lets rest him at the weekend.
 

redgingerbread

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BostonMick said:
Need ManU to win and Everton to get thrashed (to end the "toughest team to beat" mystique that is surrounding them)
Definitely dont need manure to win. City, arsenal and chelsea are going to share the first 3 places between them - that should be clear to anyone by now. Our competition is with everton, tot and manure for the last CL spot. Hence its always going to be in our favour when either of those team loses.

And besides its always a pleasure to watch manure lose, which they have now. :)
 

ILLOK

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Skrtel was our best defender on saturday, odd time to single him out for criticism when there are far more deserving targets.
 

Red Armada

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ILLOK said:
Skrtel was our best defender on saturday, odd time to single him out for criticism when there are far more deserving targets.
Indeed he was. And yet just look at what he does for Villa's first goal.

First he sits in the middle of the pitch in close proximity to Benteke just watching and allowing him all the time in the world to pick out a pass. The thought of closing him down or even slowing him down to buy some time never occurs to him and that's a regular fault of his.

Second he rushes back in the box, takes up a very good position and then allows the ball to pass right next to him for Weimann to score.

Now i'm not saying that he is the only one at fault or that he had a bad game, at least compared to others. But Skrtel has severe limitations and it's no suprise that the defence is so fragile with him being a regular starter. By all means he is far from the only one to blame but he is a factor neverthless.

What it comes down to is that he doesn't have the required quality to be a starting CB for Liverpool.
 

grooveshark

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NZred said:
Level on points with Spurs. A team who has received a fair number of hammerings this season. Our great start is now nothing more than that, a start. The wheels haven't come off, but they are wobbling. If we don't get 4th this season, we wont within the next 10 years.
The title or battle for the top 4 places has always been lost after the turn of the year.

I think that the team isnt helped by the fact that the team has tried different formations either. I have seen 4-2-2-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-2-4, 3-5-2.

Chelsea and Arsenal have stuck with their 4-2-3-1, and City have for the better part used the 4-2-2-2.

Matt on twitter intimated and put it well that BR needs to stick to one formation just for defensive stability. This team has the talent upfront, but without the goals from midfield like City do, you generally cannot count on SAS to outscore opponents time and again.
 

kopite1982

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Dane said:
Clearly Rodgers doesn't agree with your well thought out 2 word appraisal.

Rodgers out!!!
Who said rodgers out? Skrtel panicks so much when he picks that ball up from mignolet, his positioning is awful, he cant defend man to man, he pulls/tugs on so many players shirts, scores a few own goals, makes horrible pass backs that result in goals.. I mean what is he currently offering?
 

grooveshark

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kopite1982 said:
Who said rodgers out? Skrtel panicks so much when he picks that ball up from mignolet, his positioning is awful, he cant defend man to man, he pulls/tugs on so many players shirts, scores a few own goals, makes horrible pass backs that result in goals.. I mean what is he currently offering?
Who would you rather start?

Toure is no better, and Agger is a liability on set pieces.
 

rupzzz

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Usual dooom and gloom on here following a poor performance.

I was one of the few that was pleased to see us start with Sturridge, Suarez, Sterling and Coutinho. Unfortunately we didn't get firing, and Villa, once again, turned up and did the business.

By no means is this result a total loss for us though - the reactions on here are a bit over the top - and this is all down to expectations by some fans being that we are competing for the title, which is just unrealistic when you look at the three teams above us.

What we do have is a good team spirit and have the hardest games of the season out of the way.

Yes there are things to work on. We need to get Sakho or Agger fit and back in the startling line up ASAP. We need to get a DM in ASAP as Gerrard and Lucas just aren't performing at the level we require in those positions. Coutinho needs to get his form back too.

At half time I was hoping for Lucas to come on and he did. That changed the make up of the game, but I wouldn't have minded seeing Gerrard hauled off and Allen brough on after 60. But then Lucas picked up his knock which is more bad news.

The sooner we get a DM in the better.

Are we still in with a chance at the title - hell yes we are. We always turn up for the bigger games and have Everton, Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal and Spurs to come to ours yet. Get points from those games and we're still in with a chance. Do I think we will win the title - No i don't. But I do think we're in for a top 4 spot.

We won at Stoke weekend before last, a game in which many were expecting us to lose or draw. We got the win. Now we've dropped points here. Swings and round abouts.

I'm not getting on BR's back about the Villa game. We didn't expect Benteke to play the way he did, and we have a patched up defence. Shit happens. We move on and learn from out mistakes.
 

kopite1982

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grooveshark said:
Who would you rather start?

Toure is no better, and Agger is a liability on set pieces.
Thats not my problem. I dont get payed to make decisions like that. However, what i will ask is why are we sending a £7m signing, who was wanted by chelsea & tottenham (avb & jose) at 6ft 3" out on loan to granada? Some one please tell me the logic in that when we have conceded 2 or more plus goals in NINE games this season( thats with arsenal, everton, city, chelsea, spurs to play at home )

Can he be any worse than what we are currently seeing from skrtel, toure, sakho?
 

Urban Achiever

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The CB debate is really a pointless discussion to have right now, isn't it?..... there are, or were, no other options than Kolo and Skrtel, so what's the deal if Agger is a liability on setpieces? He sure as hell ain't playin' anyway. And TBF is Agger not by far the leader regarding clean sheets? Seem to rememeber to have read that.

Kindda the same issue with Cissokho. People can moan all they want, but in both cases we have no real alternatives, unless you wanna start arguing that Kelly should replace Cissokho or Skrtel or Kolo... which is obviously not gonna happen as long as Rodgers makes the calls.

So, while I agree on some of the things people say about the limitations of our defence it's not really gonna do much good since we ain't Chelsea with endless funds that can secure worldclass as third and fourth choices. What I will critisize though is that the club does not go out and spend the funds necessary to shut the obvious holes but instead only seem interested in buying yet another "could-be-good-forward" for our collection.... and the fact that Rodgers does not accomodate the tactic so that it can carry the weaker links.

Yes, there are players not good enough, but instead of makin' it work with them... Rodgers seem to go the opposite direction and demand even more from them, which adds way too much risk to a defence already weakened in the first place.
 

Urban Achiever

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kopite1982 said:
Thats not my problem. I dont get payed to make decisions like that. However, what i will ask is why are we sending a £7m signing, who was wanted by chelsea & tottenham (avb & jose) at 6ft 3" out on loan to granada? Some one please tell me the logic in that when we have conceded 2 or more plus goals in NINE games this season( thats with arsenal, everton, city, chelsea, spurs to play at home )

Can he be any worse than what we are currently seeing from skrtel, toure, sakho?
No, but at some point you'll have to relate to the reality that we haven't got unlimited funds.

Have the transfers been up to the required standard? No, I don't think so, but then again third choices cannot be expected to be much better than fx Cissokho at LFC.... not at the moment. It's frustrating, yes, but sometimes you just get unlucky with injuries and Cissokho wouldn't get a game unless Enrique, Flanagan, Agger and Sakho were all out at the same time....

I still don't think our defence is THAT bad... I actually think the problem originates from Rodgers midfield(S) and the lack of another DM.
 

grooveshark

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kopite1982 said:
Thats not my problem. I dont get payed to make decisions like that. However, what i will ask is why are we sending a £7m signing, who was wanted by chelsea & tottenham (avb & jose) at 6ft 3" out on loan to granada? Some one please tell me the logic in that when we have conceded 2 or more plus goals in NINE games this season( thats with arsenal, everton, city, chelsea, spurs to play at home )

Can he be any worse than what we are currently seeing from skrtel, toure, sakho?
That he rarely ever got to the bench should be an answer.

Sweeting watches a lot of the reserve games, remember him tweeting that Ilori's positioning isnt there yet, and that at even reserve level he gets caught out of position quite a lot, the only thing that helps a tonne if the recovery speed.

He would be eaten alive at the top level.
 

zagueiro

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kopite1982 said:
Ok then how do you rate cissokho?
I rate him as a loanee who tries his hardest for the shirt. He doesn't skirk effort, regardless of his level of ability It is wrong on all levels to call a player shit. If you have to criticise, then critique aspects of his game where there are weaknesses, i.e he gets caught out of posiiton, that sort of thing, Calling a player shit, it's wrong. End of.