• This website uses cookies. More information.
  • The This Is Anfield Forums community is moving to a new home. Click here for more information on the transition.

Post-match discussion: LFC - Aston Villa 2 - 2

RichLFC

Always one of us. RIP.
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
11,649
zagueiro said:
I rate him as a loanee who tries his hardest for the shirt. He doesn't skirk effort, regardless of his level of ability It is wrong on all levels to call a player shit. If you have to criticise, then critique aspects of his game where there are weaknesses, i.e he gets caught out of posiiton, that sort of thing, Calling a player shit, it's wrong. End of.
Effort isn't the issue but he's threatening the real bottom rung of some of the worst players to have played for us

On a purely playing level I despise mediocrity and resent us paying lots of money to toss. In this case it's nothing personal, he does try but is awful and there is no point trying to polish a turd by lying to ourselves about their capabilities

Sometimes I think we feel honour bound to accept and talk up dross. Not having it any more. He plays and performs like that against Everton I will be severely displeased. Needs an alternative found before the window is out, from within or without before then as a matter of the utmost urgency. Could not really blame the likes of Sturridge and Suarez feeling undervalued playing with this level of team mate in their side and they were struggling to hide it

The loan status is the only defence for this one. So painfully not a Rodgers type player. Though is still a lot about last summer which I don't understand and that window is looking more and more of another wasted period recruitment wise

Career wise this bloke has gone down a astonishingly bad cul de sac. There at least do feel a bit sorry for him but its qualified by him being paid money that my doctor who has helped manage a major condition admirably can only dream of. Perhaps the system is not his fault but all the same, it don't smell right

For a player of no real attributes whatsoever it amounts to the same, just it's up to the individual whether they call him shit or just terrible. Means pretty much the same in the end. Each facet of his game is substandard unfortunately. Just wish there weren't transfer windows and players like this can be quickly cut from the roster, it's a Americanism but in this sense I prefer the old days where you can quickly get rid if its obvious someone isn't up to it

Though the real blame lies further up the chain as to why hes here, if I were John Henry after watching that I would be calling Rodgers in to the boardroom and asking him who we are paying that decided this guy should be brought here. We still look suspect in some areas scouting wise tbh. Sturridge and Suarez will not be costing us CL football, it's these decisions and substandard team mates ultimately when we are talking bottom line. A proper team behind these two and we could and probably should win the league, they are of that standard. Reckon they are capable of totting up 50 plus PL goals between them, if they do that and we fail to get top 4 questions have to be asked, be fucking criminal really
 

koptician

We'll go again!
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
2,962
How long is Lucas going to be out for? a box to box or a defensive midfielder is an absolute must now!
 

WellRedKev

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
2,314
RichLFC said:
Effort isn't the issue but he's threatening the real bottom rung of some of the worst players to have played for us

On a purely playing level I despise mediocrity and resent us paying lots of money to toss. In this case it's nothing personal, he does try but is awful and there is no point trying to polish a turd by lying to ourselves about their capabilities

Sometimes I think we feel honour bound to accept and talk up dross. Not having it any more. He plays and performs like that against Everton I will be severely displeased. Needs an alternative found before the window is out, from within or without before then as a matter of the utmost urgency. Could not really blame the likes of Sturridge and Suarez feeling undervalued playing with this level of team mate in their side and they were struggling to hide it

The loan status is the only defence for this one. So painfully not a Rodgers type player. Though is still a lot about last summer which I don't understand and that window is looking more and more of another wasted period recruitment wise

Career wise this bloke has gone down a astonishingly bad cul de sac. There at least do feel a bit sorry for him but its qualified by him being paid money that my doctor who has helped manage a major condition admirably can only dream of. Perhaps the system is not his fault but all the same, it don't smell right

For a player of no real attributes whatsoever it amounts to the same, just it's up to the individual whether they call him shit or just terrible. Means pretty much the same in the end. Each facet of his game is substandard unfortunately. Just wish there weren't transfer windows and players like this can be quickly cut from the roster, it's a Americanism but in this sense I prefer the old days where you can quickly get rid if its obvious someone isn't up to it

Though the real blame lies further up the chain as to why hes here, if I were John Henry after watching that I would be calling Rodgers in to the boardroom and asking him who we are paying that decided this guy should be brought here. We still look suspect in some areas scouting wise tbh. Sturridge and Suarez will not be costing us CL football, it's these decisions and substandard team mates ultimately when we are talking bottom line. A proper team behind these two and we could and probably should win the league, they are of that standard. Reckon they are capable of totting up 50 plus PL goals between them, if they do that and we fail to get top 4 questions have to be asked, be fucking criminal really
I get your points regards the scouting system and I m still not confident going into any transfer window what the intentions are. Main gripe is with scouting and manager rather than the owners here. We need three world class players and if we et to champions league next season we can't use the excuse of not been an attractive option. Spend big and get in a beast of a midfielder, Vidal, pogba or strootman are all playing at a really high level and with the right package they could be tempted. Maybe a bit high in terms of targets but you get my point.

In terms of Cissokho I don't think he's that bad. He's no marauding left back and Rodgers system doesn't suit him at all which begs the question, why was he targeted in the first place. But in terms of defensive qualities he's not a bad player. I heard the lads from the anfield wrap say that during the week and I tend to agree. He's a left back, decent in the tackle, serves the ball well unless he's in the final third and decent positioning. It's just frustrating when the attack breaks down every time it goes wide left to him but I have sympathy for him due to the flak he's getting. He's a small fee loanee, think Stewart downing for 20m and he didnt do much more than Cissokho on the left / right wing!!!
 

Claymenza

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
1,844
The amount of slating cissokho is getting here is disgusting. At least the lad tries hard.

The amount of times he busts a gut to run down the left wing because coutinho can't be bothered to provide real wing play is commandable. I wonder how efficient he would be if sterling was on his flank and his pace could be used.

That's still more than what 100 k glen Johnson did, who tried once, gave up the ball only to leave toure exposed by agbonlahor's pace. It shouldn't have had to come down to central players like toure and gerrard to cover the flanks in the absence of the full backs which means overall Rodgers is responsible.

But to question cissokho's effort and ignore glen Johnson reeks so much of favoritism. Just because he's a loanee, he is more vulnerable to criticism because can flog him back anytime. We can't do the same for Johnson so let's give him a raise to re-motivate him.

Sometimes I think full backs have a long hard look at the opposition winger and decide early on in the game: I'm going to offer nothing going forward because I should be focusing on blocking this tricky winger. Luke shaw for all the rave reviews he gets, was still party at fault for adam Johnson's goal. I think we should improve our defending as a unit first, then once things are under control we choose decisively if there is room to exploit down the wings.

Knowing when to be safe, when to be decisive in going forward.
 

Quagmire81

TIA Regular
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
6,815
Ok lesson learned...

two men in midfield with the CM's we have, is a no go.

Kolo and Skrtel got zero synergy between them as a CB pair.

What really surprised me though, was how poor all the players were, especially Coutinho looked like a shadow of himself.
SAS was more like SOS, in desperate need of help.

Johnson was annoying poor yet again, how he can miss that header for their second goal was just not good enough, I know mignolet distracted a bit by going for the ball, but he should still have got his head on it, no excuse for him.

oh and how could the Ref miss hands on the ball early in the game. in the replay you could see he was pretty close and had a clear sight to the situation, had we got that pen the game would have end total different. No excuse for him aswell.
 

lovepool

New Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
2,673
Toure and Skrtel played v Hull Stoke and Villa and we conceded 8 goals. In fairness it was not all their fault but they are not a good partnership. Hopefully Skrtel and Sakho can get a run of games and give us some sense of stability at the back.

Brendan has to make us better defensively even if it means we lose a little in attack.
 

OOTer

TIA New Signing
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
925
I'm gonna defend Cissokho.

1- He is no nonsense most of the time and isn't afraid to punt it away to relieve pressure. OK other players have done this more this season so maybe it's an instruction to only play out of defence when certain opportunities arise, like our DM/CM being in position. Anyway. He does this well.

2- I don't think he's settled yet. It shows in how players around him don't quite know how or where he will pass or move. In fairness Suarez and other players do look to include him but his link up play isn't on the same level as others atm. Hopefully this will improve.

He has the physicallity, desire and basic skill set to function in that role. He may not be super quick but he isn't super slow either. He may not be the best at beating his man but with the help of teammates he can offer the width we need if our top 4/5 players are playing centrally.

I'm not giving up on him. I do recognise he needs to offer more but as has been said Glen offered a lot less vs Villa. So much so, as I said before, it was like Sterling was playing RWB; doing both offence and defence duties.

YNWA
 

EdWood

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
5,985
^^^^^

When the Echo writes a player off, you can usually take it as read. It's normally a non-reactionary and even-handed journalistic source, so when they rip into Cissokho for being below LFC standard, you can reliably go with the consensus. Nobody likes criticising a Liverpool player, for obvious reasons, and he most definitely is a trier, but there's no disguising the fact that the lad is simply not up to snuff.

When experienced players are let out on loan, there's normally a good reason for that.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
EdWood said:
^^^^^

When the Echo writes a player off, you can usually take it as read. It's normally a non-reactionary and even-handed journalistic source, so when they rip into Cissokho for being below LFC standard, you can reliably go with the consensus. Nobody likes criticising a Liverpool player, for obvious reasons, and he most definitely is a trier, but there's no disguising the fact that the lad is simply not up to snuff.

When experienced players are let out on loan, there's normally a good reason for that.
He's only got his place though because both Enrique and Flanagan are injured - with the best will in the world we're not going to have a world class, or even very good, third choice left back.
 

Dane

Adios!
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
7,120
Mascot88 said:
He's only got his place though because both Enrique and Flanagan are injured - with the best will in the world we're not going to have a world class, or even very good, third choice left back.
No way on this earth did Rodger bring him in with the intention of him being behind Flanagan in the pecking order.
He was most probably brought in to challenge at best, back up at worst Enrique.

As has happened with too many players our Brendan has brought in, he just hasn't been good enough.
 

EdWood

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
5,985
With resect, Mascot, that's not the point; the fact that we have his like in the squad is.

Until we stop bringing in inferior players in the hope that they, by some miracle, will evolve into good ones, or even worse, that they're a cheap option (inexcusable really), we will continue to struggle when a key injury hits, not that Enrique is a world-beater bt any stretch of the imagination.

We need better players than we already have, in several positions, including LB.

That's a fair assessment wouldn't you agree?
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
EdWood said:
With resect, Mascot, that's not the point; the fact that we have his like in the squad is.

Until we stop bringing in inferior players in the hope that they, by some miracle, will evolve into good ones, or even worse, that they're a cheap option (inexcusable really), we will continue to struggle when a key injury hits, not that Enrique is a world-beater bt any stretch of the imagination.

We need better players than we already have, in several positions, including LB.

That's a fair assessment wouldn't you agree?
Of course. I'm not suggesting he's good enough, or that we don't need better at LB. But what I am saying is that he what he is - a limited loan signing brought in to fill a hole in the squad when better options didn't pan out, and it's probably a good thing we do have him because both our other options at LB are currently crocked.
Dane said:
No way on this earth did Rodger bring him in with the intention of him being behind Flanagan in the pecking order.
He was most probably brought in to challenge at best, back up at worst Enrique.

As has happened with too many players our Brendan has brought in, he just hasn't been good enough.
Well, Brendan or the committee. Who knows where that question starts and ends.

I agree he wasn't signed with the idea of being third choice, but that's what he's become. And both ayers ahead of him are injured, so he plays and we'll just have to put up with that.
 

Joe90

A Dalglish and a Rush and the Cup is ours
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
1,490
We have to put up with cissokho. No club in the world can have three first team wonder players all happy to sit on the bench. The top players want to play and will move clubs to be first choice.
 

slufsar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
1,406
We'll win most games with Cissokho in our team as long as Suarez keeps on scoring and our midfield can remotely function. He's only got a peripheral impact. No point in obsessing over him when our midfield is as poor as it is. Especially after a game like Villa, we cant put blame on him for not contributing more to a comeback from 2-0 down, when the problem, obivously is, that we were 2-0 down in the first place
 

LeoT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
2,386
Can't believe we're still 4th, we've really dodged a bullet this time with Everton slipping up against the baggies.

The only thing I have to say about this game is the same as I've been saying in most pre match threads this season.

The only advantage we can get from not playing in Europe is the ability to start every game with our best players.
We MUST NOT give up that advantage to "accommodate" any of our players, or to give any player "some time on the pitch", frankly the stakes are way too high for that.

Arsenal have their club captain on the bench these days because in all honesty their 2 centre backs are the tightest in the league.

The simple fact is Liverpool have attempted to accommodate Suarez + Sturridge by moving our club captain to a DM role, whilst leaving our best DM (Lucas) on the bench.

Which of the 2 teams do you think did the "Right Thing"?


I would suggest that if we want to keep one of the best strikers in the world (Suarez) at our club next season and we want Champions League footie WE MUST BE MORE RUTHLESS.
 

naturalskill

New Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
115
LeoT said:
Can't believe we're still 4th, we've really dodged a bullet this time with Everton slipping up against the baggies.

The only thing I have to say about this game is the same as I've been saying in most pre match threads this season.

The only advantage we can get from not playing in Europe is the ability to start every game with our best players.
We MUST NOT give up that advantage to "accommodate" any of our players, or to give any player "some time on the pitch", frankly the stakes are way too high for that.

Arsenal have their club captain on the bench these days because in all honesty their 2 centre backs are the tightest in the league.

The simple fact is Liverpool have attempted to accommodate Suarez + Sturridge by moving our club captain to a DM role, whilst leaving our best DM (Lucas) on the bench.

Which of the 2 teams do you think did the "Right Thing"?


I would suggest that if we want to keep one of the best strikers in the world (Suarez) at our club next season and we want Champions League footie WE MUST BE MORE RUTHLESS.
I think BR has already been pretty ruthless - bringing in Sakho who plays Agger's position and trying to replace Lucas with Gerrard. If I were Agger or Lucas, I would probably think BR has a bit of a ruthless streak in him. I'm not with the group calling for Gerrard to be benched. Infact, I think those writing Gerrard off dont know their football.

BR is confused since he appears to want to develop his tiki taka 433 yet at the same time he wants to play two No9s. He needs to make his mind up.
 

Bobbinho

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
1,700
LeoT said:
Can't believe we're still 4th, we've really dodged a bullet this time with Everton slipping up against the baggies.

The only thing I have to say about this game is the same as I've been saying in most pre match threads this season.

The only advantage we can get from not playing in Europe is the ability to start every game with our best players.
We MUST NOT give up that advantage to "accommodate" any of our players, or to give any player "some time on the pitch", frankly the stakes are way too high for that.

Arsenal have their club captain on the bench these days because in all honesty their 2 centre backs are the tightest in the league.

The simple fact is Liverpool have attempted to accommodate Suarez + Sturridge by moving our club captain to a DM role, whilst leaving our best DM (Lucas) on the bench.

Which of the 2 teams do you think did the "Right Thing"?


I would suggest that if we want to keep one of the best strikers in the world (Suarez) at our club next season and we want Champions League footie WE MUST BE MORE RUTHLESS.
So what exactly are you saying?

On the one hand we should start every game with our best players....yet Gerrard should be benched?
 

WellRedKev

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
2,314
Cissohko is being made a scapegoat for the managers team selection. The midfield was shocking and was bypassed like a new motorway would a sleepy village.

He's no cafu but defensively he's sound. Take frustrations out on the manager, with reason.

Never again should sterling, Suarez, sturridge and coutinho shape up in the same team. I was shocked and worried immediately about the balance of the team. Gerrard and Henderson will boss no midfield on their own.
 

Canuck33

Banned Users
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
425
JoebloggsLFC said:
So what exactly are you saying?

On the one hand we should start every game with our best players....yet Gerrard should be benched?
Yes, he should. His time is over, or pretty close to, unfortunately. If this great club wants to go anywhere, sentiment has to go over board. Gerrard, one of the greatest servants of our club, a legend and fan favourite forever, needs to take a step back. I'm sorry, lads, the truth hurts.
 

Bobbinho

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
1,700
Canuck33 said:
Yes, he should. His time is over, or pretty close to, unfortunately. If this great club wants to go anywhere, sentiment has to go over board. Gerrard, one of the greatest servants of our club, a legend and fan favourite forever, needs to take a step back. I'm sorry, lads, the truth hurts.
Well at least make up your mind, either it's over or it's not....which is it?

& with the all too unreliable Lucas out injured....what do you suggest we do?

Personally i think your wrong, he can play out this season & the next, depending on who else we bring in & how we utilize him..
 

MarlboroMan

Vertrauen Sie mir
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
6,104
Na we won't be doing well next season, assuming we have CL football, with Gerrard in such an important position/role in the squad. Its clear he can't play twice a week so he'd have to be rotated but by who? Allen? Henderson? We also likely won't be able to play high energy, quick tempo matches with games coming thick and fast with as few options as we currently have in midfield. Lucas, Gerrard, Henderson and Allen all have a role to play, some bigger than others but none of them have the quality and consistency to start 80% of games like Yaya and Fernandinho for City.

Is Gerrard the best midfielder we have? Absolfuckinglotely! But we have played some very good marches without him and our midfield as a unit look better without him. His leadership is vital at times and he gives others confidence by just being in the lineup. But he attracts awe in his teammates so much so that their performances are affected. Not an enviable situation for Rodgers to be in surely.
Legend yes but he's longer playing like it so should he be able to just continue playing for as long as 'he' wants even if it hurts the club? Not saying he's that kind of guy but his time is coming up.

Not happy with our midfield at all so inconsistent, slow, physically deficient, questionable first touch at times, creativity not including Coutinho and inability to score goals, including Coutinho.
 

Dane

Adios!
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
7,120
Canuck33 said:
Yes, he should. His time is over, or pretty close to, unfortunately. If this great club wants to go anywhere, sentiment has to go over board. Gerrard, one of the greatest servants of our club, a legend and fan favourite forever, needs to take a step back. I'm sorry, lads, the truth hurts.
I've no problem that people with such limited football knowledge following our club, but to then come on a public forum and attempt to share their wisdom, proclaiming it as "the truth" really is quite laughable.

For all the criticism I've levelled at Gerrard in the past, he's 33 fucking years old, and anyone with an ounce of football knowledge can see he still has an awful lot to offer this club before he or anyone else even thinks of bringing his career to an end.

Thank fuck Brendan Rodgers doesn't share the sentiment of people like you.
 

LeoT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
2,386
JoeBlogssLFC

(Sorry my browser is not copy and pasting or allowing me to use the quote button)

I am saying that we should start each match with the best players in each position playing in that position, that's the only advantage we have over our rivals this season.

Lucas is a far better DM than Gerrard is, so Lucas should play in that position, I also think Allen is a better DM too.
Gerrard is better further forward, so play him there, if he runs out of legs then replace him after 60 mins each game.

Fact is we tried something on Saturday and it didn't work, nor did it work in the Stoke game in which we conceded 3 because there was in sufficient cover for the back 4.
I hope for our sake we don't try putting Gerrard there in the Everton game, cos we'll concede 5.
 

Perth Red

Deep in the wilds of outback Queensland
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
493
Lucas has been poor all season and it wasn't the fact it was Lucas who came on that improved us (somewhat), it was fact that Brendan had corrected the formation, that had been terrible. SG is better than Lucas in just about every facet of the game and can still comfortably play a game a week. Twice a week is another matter, but I would put his name down on the team sheet first for every game I could.
 

Red Armada

TIA Regular
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
3,192
Perth Red said:
Lucas has been poor all season and it wasn't the fact it was Lucas who came on that improved us (somewhat), it was fact that Brendan had corrected the formation, that had been terrible. SG is better than Lucas in just about every facet of the game and can still comfortably play a game a week. Twice a week is another matter, but I would put his name down on the team sheet first for every game I could.
For the record Gerrard has had his fair share of poor displays as well and it's no suprise that our midfield has looked at its best when one of them was missing and Allen, a younger more energetic player came on.

As far as Gerrard being better than Lucas at everything he sure as hell isn't as good a DM as Lucas is even though the latter has been a shadow of his former self after his injury. Over time and if Rodgers continues to deploy him there he'll probably evolve into a better DM, he has the talent to do anything and everything. But not presently.

Ultimately what this boils down to is that both of them have a number of issues and limitations. And as if that wasn't enough Lucas' recent injury makes our need to reinforce the midfield even more acute.
 

koptician

We'll go again!
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
2,962
well we're still fourth but just by the skin of our teeth, over the spurs just on goal diff and over Everton by a point. The derby is a must-win!
 

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.
Admin
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
24,408
koptician said:
well we're still fourth but just by the skin of our teeth, over the spurs just on goal diff and over Everton by a point. The derby is a must-win!
Actually, we have such a big goal difference (+25 vs. +3 Tottenham and +15 Everton) that it actually counts as another point! Still agree that the derby is a must-win, but which game between now and the end of the season isn't anyway?
 

Quagmire81

TIA Regular
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
6,815
Perth Red said:
Lucas has been poor all season and it wasn't the fact it was Lucas who came on that improved us (somewhat), it was fact that Brendan had corrected the formation, that had been terrible. SG is better than Lucas in just about every facet of the game and can still comfortably play a game a week. Twice a week is another matter, but I would put his name down on the team sheet first for every game I could.
I'm amazed at how many actually ignore that fact just to put Gerrard down. Simply unbelievable.

Stevie wasn't even playing the holding role, and people still use this game to point out how poor he is playing that role.

Fack me if they can't even acknowledge that we only field two men in the center in the disastrous first half, compare to three in second half with lucas in the DM role then it's rather pointless trying to debate with them.
 

koptician

We'll go again!
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
2,962
Quagmire81 said:
I'm amazed at how many actually ignore that fact just to put Gerrard down. Simply unbelievable.

Stevie wasn't even playing the holding role, and people still use this game to point out how poor he is playing that role.

Fack me if they can't even acknowledge that we only field two men in the center in the disastrous first half, compare to three in second half with lucas in the DM role then it's rather pointless trying to debate with them.
Agreed that the overwhelming primary culprit was the system picked by Brendan, but a dedicated DM would have made better fist of it.

I'm curious as to what my esteemed fellow fans think the reason was for us losing momentum the minute Lucas came off...was it purely down to Lucas or did we collectively run out of steam?