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Post-match discussion: LFC - Aston Villa 2 - 2

MarlboroMan

Vertrauen Sie mir
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
6,104
Koptocian , the Lucas haters believe we were better with Allen even though we actually looked worse. Its like they didn't even watch the match! Running out of steam probably had a little to do with it but not that much. Allen looked more positive always trying to push us forward which resulted in him losing the ball while Lucas was more the calming presence protecting the back 4 and keeping possession. In the end, with Allen and a tiring group, we failed to create very many chances and settled for the draw.
 

RedJacko

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
620
Why does it seem we are constantly against each other when a result doesn't go our way? Of course people have differing viewpoints and opinions, but referring to each other in the third person as 'Lucas haters' and 'Dreamers' is just plain stupid.

I come on this forum to escape the Liverpool slating from the outside, not to hear it from our own.
 

LeoT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
2,386
MarlboroMan,
The problem is that some people just can't see what Lucas adds, and others can.
Probably the same for Gerrard.

I stick to my earlier view, If Gerrard is our best attacking midfielder then we should to play him there.
If Lucas is fit and is our best DM then we should play him as the DM, even if it means that one of the fan's favourites does not start the game.

We really have no time to faff around with the formation to keep players happy, the stakes are way to high.

In my opinion we've looked like a junior school team since we moved Gerrard back there in his "deeper role".
Suarez is a good player, would we consider playing him back there? HELL NO!!!
 

Quagmire81

TIA Regular
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
6,815
MarlboroMan said:
Koptocian , the Lucas haters believe we were better with Allen even though we actually looked worse. Its like they didn't even watch the match! Running out of steam probably had a little to do with it but not that much. Allen looked more positive always trying to push us forward which resulted in him losing the ball while Lucas was more the calming presence protecting the back 4 and keeping possession. In the end, with Allen and a tiring group, we failed to create very many chances and settled for the draw.
I'm not so sure about that, I get the feeling they don't rate Allen too much either.

Hopefully, now that lucas is injured, we will buy some beast of a midfielder that will finally put all this dividing 'who's better' on going debat to rest.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
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May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
LeoT said:
I stick to my earlier view, If Gerrard is our best attacking midfielder then we should to play him there.
If Lucas is fit and is our best DM then we should play him as the DM, even if it means that one of the fan's favourites does not start the game.
But then we end up with two players, whom for different reasons, haven't got the legs to cover the midfield positions anymore. You end up using a player to do both Gerrard's and Lucas' running. It's either Lucas, with Allen and Hendo ahead (and Gerrard on the bench), Gerrard, with Hendo and Allen ahead (and Lucas on the bench) or Allen with Gerrard and Hendo ahead (and Lucas on the bench). But I think it's been demonstrated this season, in a set greater than the two games some of us seem willing to write off Gerrard as a DM, that a midfield with Gerrard and Lucas in it, it's pretty much wide open.

For me it's - and the Injury to Lucas makes this pretty inevitable anyway - Gerrard, with Hendo and Allen ahead. We haven't seen that yet. Gerrard's problem on Saturday was not being a DM - it was playing a two man midfield, with Henderson bombing on, leaving us playing more often than not a bizarre 4 1 5 formation. No fucking wonder Gerrard had a shocker.
 

jimmydestiny

In between the lines
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
2,056
Urban Achiever said:
The bashing of Cissokho is a bit over the top I think. He's no worldbeater and surely is limited, but the amount of blame he takes for a game like the one today is unfair.

He's an easy target because he rarely brings something out of the ordinary, but many players made way bigger mistakes than him today. I know he'll never be a star here and he won't even get a contract, but many times when he's left looking like a fool with nowhere to pass the ball you should look at his teammates. Suarez ran behind players and Sturridge didn't even move. No cross-runs from Hendo or Gerrard.... what's he supposed to do? He's no dribler so he turns and passes it back. It looks bad and I'm not saying we don't need better, but it's kind of corny blaming someone who works hard and does his best when others make huge mistakes that costs us goals and don't help him out when he has the ball.

Defensively he is pretty solid, but many seem to forget this in our "all-attacking-mode". As I've said many times after other games our defensive problems comes just as much from our midfield which today proved once again. Rodgers is no fool and sees this of course... why he refuses to address it I don't know but I'm sure he has his reasons.

Nevertheless we need a DM at a whole other level... and probably even another CM/AM as well. Before we get that we can keep changing defensive line-ups and blaming Cissokho, Kolo, Skrtel or whoever has to take the blame that day...... we'll keep leaking 'cos when the defence isn't protected they stay insecure. Get stability in the defensive midfield and the collected defense will be better.

Cissokho is not the reason we lost today... so let's not make him a scapegoat because he's an easy target when Rodgers midfield experiments are way more to blame.
I would like to put on record - I did not and do not blame him for the loss. But I will not ever redact my statement that Cissokhho was God awful in this match, as he has been on a number of other occasions. Further more as I said in the players thread, he quite simply is not good enough to wear the red jersey. Either he has a great agent or we have terrible scouts and Rodgers struggles to judge players because we barely dodged a bullet by only getting this lad on loan.
 

NZred

The Red From NZ
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
3,798
Dane said:
I've no problem that people with such limited football knowledge following our club, but to then come on a public forum and attempt to share their wisdom, proclaiming it as "the truth" really is quite laughable.

For all the criticism I've levelled at Gerrard in the past, he's 33 fucking years old, and anyone with an ounce of football knowledge can see he still has an awful lot to offer this club before he or anyone else even thinks of bringing his career to an end.

Thank fuck Brendan Rodgers doesn't share the sentiment of people like you.
Still think he could be used as a very lethal striker. Rafa always said that's how he would finish his career. Still strong and a great natural eye for goal.
 

OOTer

TIA New Signing
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
925
Mascot88 said:
Johnson moved over to RCB
That would explain a lot then. Always a toss up between getting too excited to really watch what's happening, and staying calm and watching the tactics/player performances. Usually the former takes hold.
 

Doggie

Resident Optimist
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
1,615
I watched this in a bar in Lanzarote.
The channel was bein or something, where Andy gray and that other wank ended up. He went into a vein bursting froth after the match about the pen, it was epic lol
 

OOTer

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Aug 17, 2010
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925
Haha. ^^ I'm on another Canarian Island. You on business or pleasure?
 

Clive

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
1,864
Worth reviewing BR's comments today:

On his tactics against Aston Villa last Saturday…

I picked a too aggressively offensive team from the start and we struggled. When I put an extra body in midfield, we looked better.
 

Doggie

Resident Optimist
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Aug 6, 2010
Messages
1,615
OOTer said:
Haha. ^^ I'm on another Canarian Island. You on business or pleasure?
Very much pleasure. Back in the UK now though and it's freezing :unsure: At least it's Sky here though lol

Clive said:
Worth reviewing BR's comments today:

On his tactics against Aston Villa last Saturday…

I picked a too aggressively offensive team from the start and we struggled. When I put an extra body in midfield, we looked better.
Yup, Lucas coming on definitely changed the balance, but as usual, he spends half the season injured.
 

zagueiro

TIA Squad Member
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Oct 29, 2010
Messages
3,633
JoebloggsLFC said:
Well at least make up your mind, either it's over or it's not....which is it?

& with the all too unreliable Lucas out injured....what do you suggest we do?

Personally i think your wrong, he can play out this season & the next, depending on who else we bring in & how we utilize him..
.

Doggie said:
Very much pleasure. Back in the UK now though and it's freezing :unsure: At least it's Sky here though lol

Yup, Lucas coming on definitely changed the balance, but as usual, he spends half the season injured.
Lucas is no less reliable than Agger, Sakho, Allen, Gerrard, Sturridge, Enrique, Toure, Johnson, Cissokho, Flanno, Kelly, Toure, Flanagan, or Coutinho, all of whom have missed a chunk of this season with injuries, some on more than one occasion, and in the case of Johnson, Enrique, Sturridge, Agger, Gerrard, Allen, Flanno and Kelly it's not just been this season, all are repeatedly injured. It's fair to say Lucas has had a few injuries the last 3 seasons, he's had 3, but to isolate him out from the players I've listed isn't right
 

Mascot88

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zagueiro said:
.
Lucas is no less reliable than Agger, Sakho, Allen, Gerrard, Sturridge, Enrique, Toure, Johnson, Cissokho, Flanno, Kelly, Toure, Flanagan, or Coutinho, all of whom have missed a chunk of this season with injuries, some on more than one occasion, and in the case of Johnson, Enrique, Sturridge, Agger, Gerrard, Allen, Flanno and Kelly it's not just been this season, all are repeatedly injured. It's fair to say Lucas has had a few injuries the last 3 seasons, he's had 3, but to isolate him out from the players I've listed isn't right
It's the severity of the injuries though, Zag.

We have to face it that Lucas is not going to be the player he was before his ACL. Time to move on.
Doggie said:
Yup, Lucas coming on definitely changed the balance, but as usual, he spends half the season injured.
Only in so much as it was another body in an outgunned midfield. This idea that Lucas rescued the game is a bit far fetched.