Post Match: Everton 3-3 Liverpool

soberphobia

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A point away so not all bad. Seems games against good teams reinforce both our strengths and weaknesses. We are always likely to score a goal or two which even relatively recently we were unable to do so that is an area of real development. Our midfield is pedestrian and needs a really strong controlling DM. If we get a really strong DM the rest of the midfield will look better.

We also need to give Sakho a run of games. Time and time and time again the Skrtel/Agger partnership fails to deal with a strong centre forward. Benteke/Lukaku these types just walk through our defence. We are a very good side that just needs a tweak or two. It was a great game to watch but for those who have watched us a lot it was another glaring display of both what we are good at and what we are bad at.
 

RichLFC

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rab said:
How quick people forget, there's seriously some pining for Shelvey?

If he hadn't scored today he wouldn't be in people's thoughts. He struggled last year. He plays the same position as Gerrard and was told if he wanted more first team football he wouldn't get it ahead of the club and country captain.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
I think for myself at Swansea he's showing the same sort of player he was here. He was unreliable but at Swansea you don't need to be top class to do a job, that's why they are 10th. He's good enough of the PL but not a top 4 player and feel there are too many flaws. His lack of athleticism is also symptomatic of our problems still generally, he would do nothing to improve that, make it worse if anything. Departure wise, it was a relatively decent part of the last window, though loans show how hard it is now for us to move on surplus gash or older players on quite a bit of money even if not getting money for Reina so far is a bit disappointing, sure we will next summer mind if not as much as he's worth. But the majority of the departures were and still are the right moves

The biggest problem for me is that neither Allen or Henderson are quite there as starting quality and Lucas isn't the same right at this point after this injury

At the very least we should have brought in another central player this summer. We may have tried but for me unlike many others more content with mediocrity, trying on its own isnt good enough. Erik Meier 'tried'. It's an admirable quality in some ways and was one that when players didnt do that as a minimum used to drive me insane, but ultimately if you want to reach the top you need to do and succeed not try and fail. Simple as that really. There may be excuses for it but winners dont make excuses. am not interested in them. Think we are losing points especially on the road as a consequence. Think we saw though this week that is with certain people who aren't deemed as helping the manager enough then FSG will bin them off. Just wonder if that applies to everyone however...

By no means a awful result but when in winning positions against these sides in the top 6, mongy misses and defensive errors can't be tolerated too often otherwise points get slung out the window. Vital points that not oly help us keep star quality but gain more in turn. Mess it up this season and think that will be that for the decade. So it is important

We know Coutinho is someone worth keeping in the side and that Sturridge and Suarez are a fine partnership up top. We know Gerrard can't run any more but his superb deliveries and assist making skills demand regular inclusion and that Mignolet is a very fine shot stopper. But those were known to us for a while. Flanagan proving he wasn't a dead end selection due to lack of alternatives was perhaps the only real half new discovery. Rest some issues remain really ingrained and feel more needs doing fairly swiftly. Not enough other players stand up to be counted. It's annoying why it seems to be tolerated so much at times, but do feel Rodgers aint stupid and will have a go at fixing it. If he gets enough support financially and in terms of recruitment from upstairs which has been at times spasmodic and not always that you would or should expect from a side intent on being the best. Games like this are a good way of showing the best and the worst out there, if it exposes weaknesses though it may as well be entertaining and it was. But must be so frustrating for class players like Suarez and Sturridge to bang them in every week yet fuck ups elsewhere undo their work
 

Dr_J

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I actually didn't think Joe looked too bad. If he just puts the ball on goal there is a whole different mood in here. But that's football. He'll be seeing that one for years.
 

Canuck33

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SoueysTash said:
Very interesting match today, thought we setup to soak up the pressure however, would have preferred a front three of Coutinho, Moses & Suarez to make the blues really wince when we broke. Neither Suarez or Coutinho have the pace required for that kind of caper.

Flanagan proved himself today, he had a couple of defensive lapses but for the most part showed himself worthy of a first team spot.

We were on the back foot something awful for the majority of the game which isn't good however I think that Everton aren't the walk over they used to be and it's more as a result of their quality and our gameplan that saw us defend for well over 45 mins.

Those saying that Sturridge should have been brought on earlier - think we're misjudging the seriousness of his injury situation. We all know BR likes to keep a winning team intact, if Sturridge could have come on for any earlier then I think he would have done.

Joe Allen did well thought I can't believe that miss, Suarez too had a couple of decent chances to make it 1-3.


The main thing that we showed was grit, it was the kind of performance we were missing last year. Good to see, need to get our game face on now as the next 5 weeks worth of games is going to require us digging deep if we're to pick up some good points.
Now there is a sensible recap of the events this morning!
 

T.C.B

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I suppose it's in our nature to look for scapegoats and Allen is the target today. Truth is he was no worse than Lucas or Gerrard that miss aside. Even the best miss chances.
Our central players were geriatric today.
What worries me most is how totally inept we are defending set pieces regardless of the system, formation or players selected.
 

RichLFC

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T.C.B said:
I suppose it's in our nature to look for scapegoats and Allen is the target today. Truth is he was no worse than Lucas or Gerrard that miss aside. Even the best miss chances.
Our central players were geriatric today.
What worries me most is how totally inept we are defending set pieces regardless of the system, formation or players selected.
What is often overlooked with this line of thinking is hat the best players if they miss usually make up for it. Like Gerrard is despite not being what he was still assisting every week and Suarez is the leagues leading goal machine. Both did that today

Looking hard from assists and goals from most of our other midfielders and its like looking for a patch of white in the bottom of a rabbit hutch. That's the problem for me. We need more and when chances come along you have to take them. Ruthless teams and top sides won't tolerate too many passengers

Set pieces is absolutely a problem. Do think the wrong CB partnership was selected, have seen Benteke and lukaku make fools of Skrtel and Agger often enough to see the inevitable. But the is a persistently bad area which seems to be part of our make up generally
 

Canuck33

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RichLFC said:
What is often overlooked with this line of thinking is hat the best players if they miss usually make up for it. Like Gerrard is despite not being what he was still assisting every week and Suarez is the leagues leading goal machine. Both did that today
Looking hard from assists and goals from most of our other midfielders and its like looking for a patch of white in the bottom of a rabbit hutch. That's the problem for me. We need more and when chances come along you have to take them. Ruthless teams and top sides won't tolerate too many passengers
Set pieces is absolutely a problem. Do think the wrong CB partnership was selected, have seen Benteke and lukaku make fools of Skrtel and Agger often enough to see the inevitable. But the is a persistently bad area which seems to be part of our make up generally
In response to the last paragraph, we have brought in reinforcements in the defensive department during the summer. Unfortunately, they were warming the bench. Personally, I think it was a terrible decision not to include Sakho after his performance for France v Ukraine midweek. Especially in the light of Skrtel and Agger's record v Lukaku. Then again, the whole team looked a bit stale this morning.

On the bright side, Mignolet proved to be what he was thought to be, and Flanagan was a pleasant surprise.
 

a0001matt

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A point at Goodison isn't the worst, but like others have mentioned, we really seem to struggle against any side worth their salt.

And for god's sake, can someone please shout to Coutinho when a defender is on his tail? How many times was he nabbed from a blind spot?
 

lfc.eddie

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slufsar said:
Cant keep a player in the team because he can take good set pieces. Get real
But we are more than willing to keep a player in the team that suppose to keep possession and set the tempo of the game in the game yesterday, but failed to do so? A player that was clear on goal, can't score and we say -"that's alright, it's not his job" and move on, we can keep such player because we are just happy to slate the old?
 

charleslee89

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I believe any team that actually press hard at us in midfield will get something out of the game. A point or probably even all 3 points. It has been very clear that for us to lose or draw the game, they just have to press us hard enough in the midfield and it will crack like eggs. Realise that most of our victories came from teams that don't hound our midfield for the ball often and gives us a little space in the midfield? 2 games ago, Arsenal giving us a lesson on real pressing in midfield? it really showed us the deficiencies in our midfield and everybody just dismissed it as Arsenal's midfield being more techinically superior when it was also their pressing that won them the game.
 

toddwillis22

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Good match. Flanno was incredible, way more effective both defensively and attacking than Cissokho. I think if Sturridge had started up front with Suarez, it would have been a different match. Can't help but feel that Sturridge's absence contributed to why people on this forum are slating Henderson. When all three of them are on the pitch together, Henderson usually gets praised for his performances. Suarez was isolated, and I think if Henderson had Sturridge to draw players from the isolated suarez, he would have made good use of the space to link up, which he has done effectively this season.

Think Sakho or Toure should have started to cover Lukaku - Johnson covering Lukaku on set-pieces is baffling.

No question Mirallas should have walked, but that's no excuse. I also thought Allen was good, except that he missed a sitter, but so did Suarez. Thought Gerrard was good as well.

All in all, Mignolet saved us from a loss and I'm not apoplectic over the result. Onward.
 

grooveshark

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RichLFC said:
What is often overlooked with this line of thinking is hat the best players if they miss usually make up for it. Like Gerrard is despite not being what he was still assisting every week and Suarez is the leagues leading goal machine. Both did that today

Looking hard from assists and goals from most of our other midfielders and its like looking for a patch of white in the bottom of a rabbit hutch. That's the problem for me. We need more and when chances come along you have to take them. Ruthless teams and top sides won't tolerate too many passengers

Set pieces is absolutely a problem. Do think the wrong CB partnership was selected, have seen Benteke and lukaku make fools of Skrtel and Agger often enough to see the inevitable. But the is a persistently bad area which seems to be part of our make up generally
Gerrard on most weeks doesnt ever look like he will score or get an assist from open play.

Sorry, for me he is done as a top tier player, and the manager either doesnt have the balls or knowhow of how to conservatively use him to get the best out of him.

I look back to how Ferguson used Scholes and Giggs, how Wenger uses Rosicky or how Martino is using Xavi at current moment, even Conte doesnt start Pirlo on every game and it pays dividends.

If all Gerrard is there for is his set piece delivery, then he has to be benched. It always seems like he gets off criticism because of all he has achieved, he however, isnt a cornerstone or foundation to which success can be anchored going forward. Any half decent midfield looks stellar these days, it is a collective failure.

You said Shelvey isnt a top 4 player, and I agree, but he has been better than this lot this season, that in itself should be damning enough.
 

jimbo

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Mignolet great game! Sakho should have played or toure against lukaku in the air. But Johnson was awful. But Joe Allen cost us that game. No presence no composure. oh and that miss? what on earth was he thinking? as soon as he missed he threw Everton a lifeline. We need quality midfielders. Aspas and Alberto total waste of money. Barry and lukaku loans of the season
 

shachart

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Allen I guess was as good / as poor as the rest of our midfield, so I don't intend to blame hime for the result today.
I do think that Allen is not the answer for our midfield problem. We are milking whatever is left out of Gerrard at the moment ( which is still quite a lot ), but someone needs to pick up the slack, and after a year and a half, I can say Allen is not good enough to manage the midfield of a top flight team.

I would like to see a new DM come january, and in the summer ( hopefully after securing a CL place ) bringing in a top central midfield.
 

T.C.B

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Gerrard is playing way too much football at this stage of his career. Having injections to take part in a meaningless England friendly midweek is just ridiculous especially with the Derby 4days later.
His set piece delivery and long range passing is still second to none but his legs have gone sadly.
 

Denzil

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A great Derby, end to end stuff which either side could have won, we certainly didnt get the best performance out of a few players but its a derby and thats what happens. Everton have some good players in their side that can cause trouble but all in all if joe allen tucks the sitter away then we go onto see the game out comfortably, but thats why we love the game we do, only 2 losses in 26 so onwards to Hull.
 

canucky008

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grooveshark said:
Gerrard on most weeks doesnt ever look like he will score or get an assist from open play.

Sorry, for me he is done as a top tier player, and the manager either doesnt have the balls or knowhow of how to conservatively use him to get the best out of him.

I look back to how Ferguson used Scholes and Giggs, how Wenger uses Rosicky or how Martino is using Xavi at current moment, even Conte doesnt start Pirlo on every game and it pays dividends.

If all Gerrard is there for is his set piece delivery, then he has to be benched. It always seems like he gets off criticism because of all he has achieved, he however, isnt a cornerstone or foundation to which success can be anchored going forward. Any half decent midfield looks stellar these days, it is a collective failure.

You said Shelvey isnt a top 4 player, and I agree, but he has been better than this lot this season, that in itself should be damning enough.
image.jpg

I'm sick of all the Gerrard bashing so here is a statistic that is hard to ignore
 

Walter Sobchak

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Criticism is not necessarily bashing. This is a forum on the internet, discussions and contrarian viewpoints are to be expected. If people can't handle other peoples views in a rational, civil and adult way I recommend they start blogging instead (with comments disabled).
 

T.C.B

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RichLFC said:
What is often overlooked with this line of thinking is hat the best players if they miss usually make up for it. Like Gerrard is despite not being what he was still assisting every week and Suarez is the leagues leading goal machine. Both did that today

Looking hard from assists and goals from most of our other midfielders and its like looking for a patch of white in the bottom of a rabbit hutch. That's the problem for me. We need more and when chances come along you have to take them. Ruthless teams and top sides won't tolerate too many passengers

Set pieces is absolutely a problem. Do think the wrong CB partnership was selected, have seen Benteke and lukaku make fools of Skrtel and Agger often enough to see the inevitable. But the is a persistently bad area which seems to be part of our make up generally
Fair point Rich. I have been one of Allens biggest critics on here but in fairness to the player he has hardly kicked a ball for us this season due to injury and loss of form. Is he likely to be a long term fixture in the side? Who knows but the manager wanted him desperately last season and did say he was willing to pay even more than we did to get him.
My honest opinion is that he is a bit small and lightweight and lacks an end product despite having a decent short passing game. I'm not going to be overly harsh on him even though that miss was one he will have nightmares about I'm sure. A
All said and done its possibly about combinations rather than individuals and our trio of an aging great in decline, a defensive player with no pace and a player struggling for form and justification of his place in the side was always going to see us struggle in the middle of the park.
 

Anfield Iron

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Quagmire81 said:
Lukaku is a beast, I actually thought Agger marked him great in the first half. But at set pieces he's just too much a handful, why couldn't we have got him on that loan deal, everton should consider themself blessed having him.
Great game, great derby. Mirallas staying on the pitch was a disgrace and Allen's miss was shocking.

Shit defending on all three goals and disappointed not to see Sakho or Toure on the pitch.

Still, a point is a point. Let's go get 3 points at Hull.

One question: if there was an opportunity to get Moses or Lukaku on loan from Chelsea, why not get Lukaku? Does anyone know the story behind that?
 

costared

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redbj said:
And that's being polite about it.

Shelveys greatest strength is his unpredictability, because, quite frankly, not even he knows what he's going to do next, to get that luxury at a top club you need to be gerrard or Suarez good.

Nothing wrong with Shelveys, he's a real headline grabber, but if people think gerrard is a luxury too far, how can they seriously suggest jonjo is th answer?

I wish him all the best, but, thanks but no thanks.
Disagree, Shelvey was always going to improve in my opinion and would have been fine given more chances and encouragement this season. When he went on for England last season the game and the team stepped up a notch. Not saying he is a world beater but he would not have to be to get a fair amount of games in our midfield. We sold him for about 6mill, our purchases at around that money have not produced much yet although I think Alberto will be o.k. if he toughens up a bit.
 

costared

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Rakesh said:
BR obviously felt he could do without him, based on the style of football he plans to play in the next few years. He knows what his vision is, and the players he feels will deliver that vision.
I wouldn't have minded giving Shelvey another season, but he never seems to have the ball 100% under control. His passing isn't great and his movement lacks finesse/intelligence. He's a completely different type of player to Allen. If I wanted energy and a player to harass the opposition in the last 15 minutes, in an advanced position, I'd bring him on. If I wanted someone to pass the ball and help retain possession and composure, I'd choose Allen.

Considering the amount of stick our fans are giving Allen, and the amount Shelvey himself got when he was playing for us, do you really think Shelvey would have flourish in the glare of the LFC spotlight?
Yes I do think Shelvey would have flourished, it only takes a few decent performances to get the fans on your side. I agree he is a very different type of player but feel he is a more effective type of player. I don't think Joe Allen is ever likely to do much to change a game, he is to lightweight to be effective at this level. Incidentally some of Shelvey's movement off the ball was excellent with the U21's last season. He looked our best player at that level and yet some of those playing alongside him are still at the club.
No point in adding more as this is history now.
 

kwala

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Anfield Iron said:
One question: if there was an opportunity to get Moses or Lukaku on loan from Chelsea, why not get Lukaku? Does anyone know the story behind that?
We have Suarez and Sturridge. Who would you drop for 1 season? We lack wide players, we got Moses.
 

Red Tiger

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Mirallas should have been sent off for that tackle.

Joe Allen should have been sent off for that miss.
 

Le_hunt

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absolute rollercoaster of a game, even when it comes to my post-match feelings the day after.

on one hand we could, and should have buried it had Mirallas been red carded, and had Allen not pulled the miss of the season. bloody hell.

on the other we looked like losing this one, and as it is often said we would have lost this one last season, not to mention the season before. and the season before. and the season before. repeat as long as you want. but the never-say-die attitude, the hatred of defeat has saved us. I have the feeling something has changed this season. subbing Sturridge for Lucas, going for the 3 points away to your bitter rival when the chips are down is brave and bold. I like this.

Mignolet MOTM, our central pairing was below average, Johnson has been beaten for pace once or twice, and surprisingly Flanno has been brilliant, hardly put a foot wrong. Lucas hes been decent, Coutinho has drifted in and out of the game, Suarez outstanding as always.
 

104TOSH

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Cracking game and the right score at the end. Our Belgian keeper deserves special mention as he kept us in the game, he was let down by his defense and none of the three goals were his fault! Although Flanno did well and escapes any criticism.

Lucas, who performed well, needs to eradicate the 'silly' fouls, as one led to first equalizer. Joe Allen needs shooting for missing that golden chance which may have sealed our victory.

How Miralles stayed on the pitch after his assault on Suarez is a disgrace.
 

indianscouser

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I missed the game. Caught the highlights. Felt some of our goals especially those from set pieces were really soft. Mino had a cracking game. A point is a good result, considering we nearly blew it. Next three games are easier, and anything less than 9 points will hurt us.
My man of the match: mignolet.
He has done a brilliant job, it's as if Reina isn't really missed. Credit to the lad. Proved doubter wrong!(including me)
 

BhupendraS

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Maulkin said:
Is the FA going to review the Mirallas incident? It seemed to me that now they can retrospectively change the result of a foul even if the ref noticed it.

I'm totally mad at me, I missed the match because I was too drunk last night and I slept until the 88 minutes.
No.
The rules are that the ref dealt with it by giving Chopper Mirallas a yellow card.
If they review it, then it will be seen as undermining the ref.

However, they can demote him for next week to a Championship match, or 'rest' him for next week.
 

rab

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Lot of stick for Allen for that miss and yes it was a bad one. However Suarez missed an equally good chance with a header he put straight at Howard.

One is getting hammered for failing to score, the other isn't getting a mention. Yes Suarez contributed more to the result, yes he's an infinitely better player but one missed chance didn't cost us three points.
 

BhupendraS

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Red Tiger said:
Joe Allen should have been sent off for that miss.
I disagree.
A slap or two from Brendan would be sufficient.

But it won't happen because Social Services would then get involved.

Seriously though, he doesn't offer much cover for our defenders.
Lucas gave away two silly fouls which led to goals.
He got through a really tough first few years, because he was allowed to fail by Rafa.

I don't think the fans are going to allow Brendan to be that patient - or I hope not.

Johnson is getting a bit of stick.
I do think Martin Kelly is a far better defender - what's happened to him?
Put Johnson on the wings.

As for Stevie - yes - good deliveries for the goal, but he is failing to control games as he should do.
He doesn't need to run round like a nutter, but dictate play and use his positional sense to control the tempo of the game - like Xabi.
Oh, by the way - would you want Xabi back - even for a season or two?
Fuck Allen off to the knacker's and we'll have space for 1 class player.