Post Match: Hull City 3-1 Liverpool

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,153
Talk of sacking Rodgers is massively premature. In fact it's a quite petulant childish response, from people who fail to understand the nature of sport.

Losing to Hull City hurts, and we can pick the bones out of it all day. For me the players did what they've done for at least the last 10 seasons and walked onto that football field thinking all they had to do was turn up. I thought Rodger's had kicked that out of the players, so it's disappointing to see it return. If Coutinho is carrying an ankle injury as suggested, then (backline aside) I don't see a selection problem. Had we played Coutinho and aggravated his injury then the same people who are criticising Rodger's for not playing him would be gathering up the pitch forks. The absolute last thing we need now is to lose the little Brazilian.

On the Rodgers issue he needs time. There are people who will suggest that players need a season to settle at a club, and yet some are happy to boot a manager after little more time. The question is 'what has five years of chopping and changing managers done for this football club?' Every managerial change has been a period of turmoil and difficulty. Players have been jettisoned and playing styles torn up. Everytime we've done it we've slipped backwards, so yeah let's keep on down that road, FFS.

Even talk of Rodgers getting until the end of the season is disappointing. I would expect him to get the next three years minimum. The brief Rodgers came here to fulfil cannot be achieved in two seasons. If FSG swing the axe at the end of the season for anything other than a catastrophe, then I'm pretty much done with them.

There is a lot of this Kenny got the sack for less drivel - as if two wrongs ever make a right. Are people really still so bitter about Kenny's premature and unfair sacking that they would see this club trapped in a perpetual cycle of upheaval? We've really got to move on from this bollocks.

Liverpool Football club cannot afford to keep changing managers at the first sign of trouble. That isn't just a reflection of the financial cost of replacing a manager, paying off his staff, taking a hit in the market on all his players and then paying to have your new man released from his contract, along with his staff and giving him a fat kitty to bring in all his players. Although clearly that is significant. At the minute we are standing still, while the teams around us - their kitties swelled my oil money - are pulling away. For a club like Liverpool - who cannot afford to give a new manager a blank chequebook - we have to let stability and continuity create the level playing field. When a club like United are mired in mid table following a managerial change, what do you think continual chopping and changing will do for us?

Whether we're challenging for the title or the top four, there are going to be days like this. Man Utd have them. Chelsea have them. Tottenham got beat 6-0 last week for crying out loud, and this was a team who would be sweeping away all before them this season according the sage's here. The nature of sport is that occasionally you lose. Liverpool fans need to get to grips with this - there were people writing the season off after the Southampton game, and that was the first defeat of the season. It's a cliche, but if you can't look at victory and defeat and treat those imposters the same then you'd be as well getting all your football enjoyment from a computer, where the outcome is entirely in your hands.
 

Dublin_Kopite

TIA Legend
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,516
SoueysTash said:
Its abundantly clear that our team cannot function with Henderson being the furthest forward midfielder. Henderson has to be one of the other 2 midfielders.
How about Gerrard in the Lucas role?
Suso/Coutinho​
Gerrard Henderson​
 

RedSeven

On the one road
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
5,945
SoueysTash said:
Alberto really did add something when he came on. Its abundantly clear that our team cannot function with Henderson being the furthest forward midfielder. Henderson has to be one of the other 2 midfielders.

Disappointing result however we've bounced back well from poor results and I'm expecting all 6 points for the next two games.
Didn't think either of our subs added anything at all tbh.Not necessarily there fault,the whole team was pure muck today,must have been something in the air.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,153
RedSeven said:
Didn't think either of our subs added anything at all tbh.Not necessarily there fault,the whole team was pure muck today,must have been something in the air.
Nah, Coutinho and Alberto look good in their cameos. They at least displayed a bit of calmness on the ball and help to retain possession.
 

RedSeven

On the one road
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
5,945
Mascot88 said:
Nah, Coutinho and Alberto look good in their cameos. They at least displayed a bit of calmness on the ball and help to retain possession.
And nothing else.Not having a go at the lads,just don't feel they added anything of note.They never looked in anyway like they could get us back into the game,surely that was the idea behind the substitutions today.
 

ptt

2020, head of the table.
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
16,454
Hmmmm, I need a keyboard not an iphone. But am I right in thinking that BR was wrong, the squad was wrong, we played badly, we need new players, we're crap, we'll finish 10th and everybody's miserable as sin? Odd, I thought we were 2nd this morning.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,153
RedSeven said:
And nothing else.Not having a go at the lads,just don't feel they added anything of note.They never looked in anyway like they could get us back into the game,surely that was the idea behind the substitutions today.
Coutinho played some lovely balls round the back of the defence. When you're struggling to retain possession, if your substitutes help you do that than it's a good thing.

OK neither off then won the game singlehandledly, so I suppose they can go in the bin too?
 

RedSeven

On the one road
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
5,945
Mascot88 said:
Coutinho played some lovely balls round the back of the defence. When you're struggling to retain possession, if your substitutes help you do that than it's a good thing.

OK neither off then won the game singlehandledly, so I suppose they can go in the bin too?
Didn't say that,i'll put it down to post match blues :)
 

ptt

2020, head of the table.
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
16,454
@Mascot, bloody good post sir, well said.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,153
RedSeven said:
Didn't say that,i'll put it down to post match blues :)
I meant in the analysis of the game. Never mind.

Alberto has played little football all season. Coutinho is playing with an ankle injury. Despite this, both were quite bright and added a bit more control in the attacking third. Substitution shouldn't be expected to win a game of football on their own. That's a bonus. What they should do is correct the deficiencies the team are displaying at the team. At the time Liverpool were losing the ball at will. Both helped us retain possession and be a bit calmer in the attacking third.
 

No Men in the Box Redux

Keyboard Warrior
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
1,976
kopite1982 said:
Great point

@Jay82_LFC: Sakho £16m, Allen £15m, Alberto £7m, Aspas £7.8m all on bench. Whilst £7m for Ilori playing for U21s. Still wanna throw money around??
I take the point that our transfer dealings have not been the most effective but I think this tweet's perspective is a bit skewed. Aspas just came back from injury. That was his first match back on the bench I believe. Sakho has been in and out of the team. I have no problem with sitting him on the bench every now and then if Skrtel or Agger is performing better.

Ilori and Alberto were always going to be players for the future so they will inevitably find themselves on the bench this season and maybe next. Not a big deal investing in the future if the player is really the right one. I doubt it effected our ability to sign a Mkhitaryan or Costa last summer. None of those players wanted to come here.
 

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
9,040
I'm sure BR will fluff off today's loss in his press conference, but I'm hoping he takes his notebook out and spends some time on film work and watches what his startingXI did today.

From what I saw, the guys on the bench who are eager to play gave a good effort once they got some game time. Moses looked lethargic and disinterested, Suarez was playing out of position trying to do too much instead of being patient in trying to cultivate good chances.

Sterling actually looked a bit better offensively than I've seen him in past appearances...but only when he had control on the ball and a bit of space. He still needs time to develop though, too often his head went down and didn't deliver quality passes/crosses once he did what he does best (beat players into space with pace).

Far too often we relinquished the ball trying to force into their zone instead of letting plays develop organically. Would much rather see an indirect approach to allow sustained pressure in their area and let the forwards move around to create opportunities by losing their mark without the ball. We really do lack an aerial presence in the box, and if we can get a few wingers playing some quality balls in then a signing like Mitroglou would benefit us.

That being said, we had Carroll and it didn't work out well for us.

Some positives to bring from this game:

  1. Flanagan has again showed he's on his way to earning a spot in the startingXI
  2. Gerrard still has magic in that right leg of his...he is still worth his salt in the middle of the park although he's not a box-to-box midfielder anymore.
  3. Rodgers should now have a good idea who really wants to play, and who is just taking up space. I cannot see him going after Moses to sign once the loan expires.
Respect to the Hull players for stepping up their game and earning a win. We need to learn from that.

I do not envy BR having to pick the lineup for Wed's match. Possible he will give the eager ones a chance to show their worth?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ptt

Bleeding Red

TIA Squad Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
1,131
kwala said:
Christ that is depressing. Knocking on for £60m worth of talent there. Contributing practically zero to our season. Waste of funds if they don't play really.
These are the gambles you take when you're shopping in the £6-12 million price bracket. You're rarely buying truly proven talent for that nowadays and every one is a gamble in some respects. But as we're not in the Champions League, that is our lot atm. It was always that sort of market that Rafa struggled in as well. More oft than not when he spent big, he got it right and I hope Rodgers will do the same.

As for today, rather not dwell on it too much. We were utter shite, and we'd better pray Coutinho isn't going to join Sturridge on the treatment table for any length of time. Hope his ankle is ok. Get Coutinho in the no.10, because Suarez got no service and quite frankly looked fed up for most of that game today. Time to give Alberto a run in the team as well. He can't be any worse than Moses was today. There's a reason Chelsea were willing to loan him out. He's not good enough for them and he shouldn't be good enough for us either. Everton certainly got the better deal on the Chelsea loanee stakes.

The scary thing is we could easily have ended up losing 5-1 in the end today. We crumbled the moment that 2nd one went in. They scored one more, and had two more guilt edged chances.
 

Canuck33

Banned Users
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
425
Both camps out in full force today. The doom-and-gloom-ists and of course, our never resting apologists. There is actually people around here that try to make shite sound edible, or smelling good. And then there are those who think everything is shite. I'm sort of in the middle. Only half is shite, but it does smell bad. But looking at today's performance, I can see us struggling to hold down a top ten place at the end of the calendar year. On the other hand, if some of our players actually start doing what they are paid for, we could still be in the mix.
 

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
9,040
Canuck33 said:
Both camps out in full force today. The doom-and-gloom-ists and of course, our never resting apologists. There is actually people around here that try to make shite sound edible, or smelling good. And then there are those who think everything is shite. I'm sort of in the middle. Only half is shite, but it does smell bad. But looking at today's performance, I can see us struggling to hold down a top ten place at the end of the calendar year. On the other hand, if some of our players actually start doing what they are paid for, we could still be in the mix.
Somehow by the grace of whatever...we are still top4 in the standings. Go figure.

Hold on tight, gonna be a bumpy ride.

Could be worse...could be a Leaf's fan. :)
 

WellRedKev

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
2,314
from the first whistle you just knew it wasn't right. Team selection, effort, just about everything stank a little. This is a wake up call. There are going to eb days like this and the Race for the Top 4 is gonna be extremely tough. The league table reflects that now big time. One more poor result and we could be 7th or 8th.

We need to bounce back with two wins on the bounce. That should happen but it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't. we should be beating Hull every time, home or away. They lack quality throughout their team so Rodgers should be ripping the lads a new arsehole after that flat display. It was the most pedestrian performance of the season and shouldn't be tolerated. As fans we shouldn't accept it so criticism in here should embraced as long as its rational. If we have two more of them before the turn of the year we will be in a awkward position of outside looking in rather being the life and soul of the party.

Two many were poor to mention. I was crying out for the same team as Everton and with hindsight it might have given us a better shout of success.

Just have to put it behind us and hammer Norwich, a Luis Suarez hat trick would soften my cough anyway.

YNWA.
 

Joe90

A Dalglish and a Rush and the Cup is ours
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
1,490
Hi all.

Now you've all have a good cry, remember that Manchester City have lost one more game than Liverpool. Liverpool have had two extra draws.

Yet City (apparently) are dead certs for the title and Liverpool is going to struggle to hold down a top 10 place?

And you wonder why the Club isn't calling you for advice...
 
  • Like
Reactions: ptt

Canuck33

Banned Users
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
425
Semmy said:
Somehow by the grace of whatever...we are still top4 in the standings. Go figure.

Hold on tight, gonna be a bumpy ride.

Could be worse...could be a Leaf's fan. :)
That surely would be worse. But I like Montreal, you know, they play in red!
 

Canuck33

Banned Users
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
425
Joe90 said:
Hi all.

Now you've all have a good cry, remember that Manchester City have lost one more game than Liverpool. Liverpool have had two extra draws.

Yet City (apparently) are dead certs for the title and Liverpool is going to struggle to hold down a top 10 place?

And you wonder why the Club isn't calling you for advice...
That little picture there beside your post suits you quite well. Looks as immature as your post.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
17,149
Joe90 said:
Hi all.

Now you've all have a good cry, remember that Manchester City have lost one more game than Liverpool. Liverpool have had two extra draws.

Yet City (apparently) are dead certs for the title and Liverpool is going to struggle to hold down a top 10 place?

And you wonder why the Club isn't calling you for advice...
City have had a tougher start than us and they've simply got a lot more quality players than we have.

Deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
 

Joe90

A Dalglish and a Rush and the Cup is ours
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
1,490
But haven't Spurs got 'a lot more quality players than us' too, seeing as they did spend massive money over the summer, ILLock?

Cause apparently that fixes everything. Immediately.

Yet City are only ahead by 1 pt and Spurs looking pretty dismal at the moment.

'Buit Spurs just need time to gel', you'll more than likely reply, yet the Pool players and BR are not afforded the same luxury (by their own fans!!).

No, no, spend Gazillions on players and get a new manager every time the previous one loses a game!!
 

HarryFloyd

TIA First Team
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
2,751
Mascot88 said:
Talk of sacking Rodgers is massively premature.
Every managerial change has been a period of turmoil and difficulty. Players have been jettisoned and playing styles torn up. Everytime we've done it we've slipped backwards, so yeah let's keep on down that road, FFS.

When a club like United are mired in mid table following a managerial change, what do you think continual chopping and changing will do for us?

Whether we're challenging for the title or the top four, there are going to be days like this. Man Utd have them. Chelsea have them. Tottenham got beat 6-0 last week for crying out loud, and this was a team who would be sweeping away all before them this season according the sage's here.
Tottenham lost to Manchester City, we lost to Hull bleeding City- big difference.

Every managerial change has indeed been mired with turbulence, yet our seems to hardly stabilise long enough.

If we are to compare with other clubs- Everton got a new manager, they too got two players on loan like us, yet despite this they sit level on points with us (and Chelsea).

Yes Rodgers must be given ample time to set things right and any talk of sacking is hyperbolic and knee-jerk at its worst. But, we must not be oblivious to glaring holes and shortcomings of our players, the manager and the club and wish them away by saying that all clubs have their bad days.

Of course they do, but one may argue that many of those clubs are much better placed to bounce back from those bad days as compared to us, Chelsea and City are uber rich, they are in little danger of losing their star players. United are defending champions, and a bad run of form will hardly impact their reputation to a great degree unless it is prolonged and persistent. Arsenal have lost their stars and yet managed to hold on and even thrive.

But we do not have such a luxury- we lose players like Suarez and we are looking down the bottom of the barrell next year.

Our league position at the beginning of the season seemed to have lulled many supporters into thinking that we have turned a corner and are now in the big league. As others have pointed out, we have failed to beat any of the top teams except United at home and we are going to face City twice, Chelsea twice, Spurs twice, Arsenal, Everton and United once.
 

legalalien

Watcher of the skies
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
9,411
henryblackstorm said:
Awful display. Don't really understand why Rodgers don't play with Sakho and Agger together. They are our two best central defenders and we need to get a consistent partnership in front of Mignolet as soon as possible.
Completely agree. Interesting to note that in his post match comments Rodgers criticizes the midfield but says nothing about the defence.

We lost the game because of poor defending. Our inadequate midfield may have been enough to get at least a draw in this game, but if we concede goals due to a disorganised defence then it's no surprise that we lost. And why was it disorganised because, yet again BR made what seem to be unnecessary changes at the heart of the defence. We need stability there, and we need our best CBs there. Skrtel and Toure are not our best CBs. They should be back-up to the only truly international-class centre backs that we have: Agger and Sakho.
 

legalalien

Watcher of the skies
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
9,411
Dublin_Kopite said:
How about Gerrard in the Lucas role?
Suso/Coutinho​
Gerrard Henderson​
Yeah, I like this too. Maybe BR is thinking along similar lines and that's what was behind his recent comments about Gerrard being able to play a defensive role in the future. Well, the next game's in the future, is it not?
 

El Cuchillero

Més que un pedantic shit.
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
2,897
I disagree. We lost the game because we couldn't get hold of the ball. If there's no midfield, the back line has no outlet, the opposition come straight back at you and the pressure intensifies, intensifies, intensifies until, inevitably, we concede.

Of course the back-line wasn't perfect today, but I feel they were hung out to dry yet again by a non-existent midfield. Nonetheless, Sakho + Agger henceforth, please, Brendan.
 

Canuck33

Banned Users
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
425
HarryFloyd said:
Tottenham lost to Manchester City, we lost to Hull bleeding City- big difference.

Every managerial change has indeed been mired with turbulence, yet our seems to hardly stabilise long enough.

If we are to compare with other clubs- Everton got a new manager, they too got two players on loan like us, yet despite this they sit level on points with us (and Chelsea).

Yes Rodgers must be given ample time to set things right and any talk of sacking is hyperbolic and knee-jerk at its worst. But, we must not be oblivious to glaring holes and shortcomings of our players, the manager and the club and wish them away by saying that all clubs have their bad days.

Of course they do, but one may argue that many of those clubs are much better placed to bounce back from those bad days as compared to us, Chelsea and City are uber rich, they are in little danger of losing their star players. United are defending champions, and a bad run of form will hardly impact their reputation to a great degree unless it is prolonged and persistent. Arsenal have lost their stars and yet managed to hold on and even thrive.

But we do not have such a luxury- we lose players like Suarez and we are looking down the bottom of the barrell next year.

Our league position at the beginning of the season seemed to have lulled many supporters into thinking that we have turned a corner and are now in the big league. As others have pointed out, we have failed to beat any of the top teams except United at home and we are going to face City twice, Chelsea twice, Spurs twice, Arsenal, Everton and United once.
Not to forget Southampton, we still have to play them once more as well, away that is.
 

RichLFC

Always one of us. RIP.
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
11,649
leopoldfrank said:
Not sure anyone said anything about sacking the manager. Think you're overstating the supposed 'hysteria'. A few people have doubts about our manager but who doesn't? I don't think anyone's actually suggesting we sack him tho.
Somewhere in the middle for me. Europa league gets him a 1 year extension for me and that's being generous because we are pissing around too much and slow to learn with basics (like defensive set ups and organisation)

Another 7th or lower and would want someone more experienced. There is always someone willing to take the job on, we are not the provincial no marks some of is try to paint ourselves as to excuse lack of real progress and FSG are not the last mob we had here who no one will work for. Rodgers would also have had 2 years and like it or not that is not a bad taster period at the top level these days when a bad season can lead to a lean era very easily given the competition about now. We don't have to accept mediocrity or lack of clout or nous. But like I said, I hope those in charge learn from these episodes and don't fuck around for too much longer and maybe that day won't come

The thing that sometimes is the problem is that we are either slow to recognize when things have gone stale, or just appoint the wrong men sometimes. A bit like our buying in the transfer market where every year we seem to buy the wrong players. But there is always the possibility that you will appoint the right man one day and as in the transfer market, quality experience at the top level means it's more likely that person will do better. Thing is for Rodgers, he loses Suarez and can see him becoming a permanent 6th-8th man. Would be difficult even for someone experienced but when we can't even compete with half the PL for players due in part to nobody being impressed with the credentials of those we have then that's a problem unfortunately. But with the season open, is not too late for that to change. But at the moment I can't really see Brendan even matching what Houllier did even in the near future, a few things seem glaringly absent. Curates egg, some good, some very good, quite a lot...not so good. And at this club we tend to accept too much not so good these days and personally feel the touch of knowing instinctively what has needed has long gone

In his defence, will say that in several areas Rodgers is a good coach and knows how to deflect pressure away. But does he have real deep down magic qualities? Remains to be seen and for me he will need to earn any extensions he gets. People bang on about knee jerking but often here we see it the other way as well, like endless daft articles on here like 'will Flanagan solve our full back issues' after one and a half ok performances'. But a year and a bit is enough time to assess strengths and weaknesses. But for me Rodgers maybe isn't set up to do well here with our club structure being what it is. A decent DOF and a strong MD with solid credentials in football and maybe it might be different but that looks off the table. It's a bit half baked from where I am standing. But a manager with winning experience and a uber strong personality could cut through some of that maybe...as Rafa and Ged did at least for a time when they had people like Rick parry running things, but they still were able to achieve something. Don't know right now whether this regime will do anything in the next 2 years or so
 

JustHitMyHead

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
2,058
I struggle to think of one thing that our midfield does well. Really.

They don't create, score, win the ball, protect the defense, maintain possession, control the tempo...

This is like the umpteenth time that our midfield has been second best.
 

soberphobia

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
620
It was a bad loss. OK a really bad loss but it just highlights how shallow our squad is and where we are weak. We are well into the season and still haven't settled on a C/B pairing and we have been poor defensively especially from set pieces. Sakho not being in the team is for reasons unknown to most supporters. SAS goalscoring exploits have masked our weakness at the back or should i say lack of structure and discipline.

We are also crying out for a defensive midfielder who can take charge of a game and move the ball efficiently to someone in a red shirt. Mignolet can't be a hero every week. Losses like this are really only a carry over from our form for most of the season, as good as our form has been at times our weaknesses are the same.