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Post match: LFC 2-3 Udinese

Libero

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Downing and Borini were painfully average. Assaidi tried to create things but found little to no support or movement in front of him.
I think Assaidi found it difficult because he was constantly had 2 or 3 players to beat. Jackie boy had a good game but didnt get forward enough to support him and create space by overlapping. Not going to be overly critical on him as he was sound defensively and is still you, but would like to see him get forward more.
 

OhYaBeauty

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Well it sure as hell doesn't help that Carra lets Di Natalie play keepy up with the ball until somebody runs.s towards the box. Figures he couldn't miss hit either.
That's right, we should be slating Carra. That's in vogue, isn't it?

No. Carra played decently tonight. Di Natale is a dangerous striker, had Carra stepped around either side Di Natale would have turned and scored. Carra did the smart thing, stayed goal side, and waited for help. Then Di Natale picked a gorgeous pass and their runner hit a great shot. Nothing about that was Carra's fault.

Jamie has put in two pretty solid displays in a row now.
 

Never Say Never

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That's right, we should be slating Carra. That's in vogue, isn't it?

No. Carra played decently tonight. Di Natale is a dangerous striker, had Carra stepped around either side Di Natale would have turned and scored. Carra did the smart thing, stayed goal side, and waited for help. Then Di Natale picked a gorgeous pass and their runner hit a great shot. Nothing about that was Carra's fault.

Jamie has put in two pretty solid displays in a row now.
Solid is a good word. Unspectacular, but reliable.

I'd love to see a midfield of Henderson, Allen, and Sahin against stoke.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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That's right, we should be slating Carra. That's in vogue, isn't it?

No. Carra played decently tonight. Di Natale is a dangerous striker, had Carra stepped around either side Di Natale would have turned and scored. Carra did the smart thing, stayed goal side, and waited for help. Then Di Natale picked a gorgeous pass and their runner hit a great shot. Nothing about that was Carra's fault.

Jamie has put in two pretty solid displays in a row now.
Starting to think ChicargoRed will blame anybody and anything to avoid giving any credit to Henderson and the work he was doing in the middle of the park before the substitions which led to a lot of defensive chaos that certainly helped them score a couple of goals.
 

OhYaBeauty

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Solid is a good word. Unspectacular, but reliable.

I'd love to see a midfield of Henderson, Allen, and Sahin against stoke.
I'd play Gerrard for that one. Sahin, Allen and Gerrard. I think he'll be willing to display a bit of giveadamn for that one. Lord knows he didn't expend any on this one.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Solid is a good word. Unspectacular, but reliable.

I'd love to see a midfield of Henderson, Allen, and Sahin against stoke.
Not quite sure of what midfield it should be but defo starting to think it should be Hendo filling in for Lucas till he gets back. Simple fact is squads have been more solid when Hendo has been in the holding role than when Allen has. With the creativity and defensve back up of Allen or Sahin beside him I think thats the best option till Lucas returns.
 

mattyhurst

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I would have brought on Sahin for Henderson, let's face it he's been great at getting in the box.

Would expect Suso, Sterling,Sahin all to start on sunday.
 

basil1492

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Agree with everything you say including the bolded bit I'm not making the Hendo for Gerrard argument based on hindsight I was saying minutes before on chat that Allen was being anonymous and had pointed out what a good game Henderson was having. Sub choice baffled me and the resulting goals didn't surprise me at all.
Maybe Allen wasn't doid ng well but Hendo was the DM so to go even more attacking he was the obvious choice. Either way though i can't slate the manager for something i agreed with, to me they were all good subs and probably what i would have chosen. I may have considered Sahin for Allen i suppose instead of Sterling for Assaidi but its too late now. Onwards and upwards though, looking forward to Stoke with our full team
 

SoueysTash

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Again, regardless, that doesn't mean you can't move your legs and follow someone. I don't care if he rugby tackles him like the Udinese defender did to downing, just do something to show a bit of effort.

Tbh, after his brilliant goal, I thought Shelvey added nothing in the second half and was completely anonymous.
I backed Shelvey for a MOTM performance prior to the match but you're absolutely bang on there. I was so disappointed with his second half showing, gave the ball away a lot. Not sure whether his ego got in the way, some of the passes he was trying to pull off were terrible. Another thing I was getting frustrated with was his control, he didn't seem to be able to dig the ball out of his own feet when he had the chance.

I do truly believe that Shelvey has the ability to step into a Stevie kind of role, tonight he didn't do what he's been doing so well before today. Shame really but I'm sure he'll bounce back.

Allen was another player who, usually so assured and accurate with his passing, seemed to lose it a bit.

BR hit the nail on the head (posted back in this thread) as he always does, we were sloppy. Shame but a good lesson in a competition that we can afford to drop points, we desperately need to stop this kind of shit in the league though.
 

Sine

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Anyone has links to the full game? Forgot to record the jewel and it seems like it was a peach to watch.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Maybe Allen wasn't doid ng well but Hendo was the DM so to go even more attacking he was the obvious choice. Either way though i can't slate the manager for something i agreed with, to me they were all good subs and probably what i would have chosen. I may have considered Sahin for Allen i suppose instead of Sterling for Assaidi but its too late now. Onwards and upwards though, looking forward to Stoke with our full team
Oh trust me im not slating Rodgers at all think he is great and will truely achieve wonders with us love the guy.

Just think maybe on that decision, which made perfect sense, he got it wrong.

Allen has been holder since Lucas got injured this was his first game at playmaker for sometime it should of been safe in theory to switch him back to holder.

Unfortunately it wasn't. Think the mistake was made quite simple because of Rodgers confidence in Allen out weighing his confidence in Henderson.

But Rodgers has already proved that a lot of his decisions and choices are based on merit and firmly believe Rodgers will realise how well Henderson was doing tonight and appreciate he made the wrong call, for the right reasons, and take that on board.
 

ianrush

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Really? what Downing could have done better today? he was very good IMO
always a threat today, he really upped his game and I hope he can do that over a long period of time
and not to "turn off" like he used to do last season
no doubt, one of his better games. but if this was his A game, then we're in big trouble. he's just a squad player, no more no less. definitely not a starting xi material. seriously, you really want to rely this guy to deliver league title for you? i won't bet my money on him.
 

ChicagoRed

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no doubt, one of his better games. but if this was his A game, then we're in big trouble. he's just a squad player, no more no less. definitely not a starting xi material. seriously, you really want to rely this guy to deliver league title for you? i won't bet my money on him.
Nobody is suggesting Downing deliver us a league title. He played well today give him that. Much better than Borini.
 

basil1492

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Oh trust me im not slating Rodgers at all think he is great and will truely achieve wonders with us love the guy.

Just think maybe on that decision, which made perfect sense, he got it wrong.

Allen has been holder since Lucas got injured this was his first game at playmaker for sometime it should of been safe in theory to switch him back to holder.

Unfortunately it wasn't. Think the mistake was made quite simple because of Rodgers confidence in Allen out weighing his confidence in Henderson.

But Rodgers has already proved that a lot of his decisions and choices are based on merit and firmly believe Rodgers will realise how well Henderson was doing tonight and appreciate he made the wrong call, for the right reasons, and take that on board.
I agree it was a mistake now. If i had to pick which one to take off now it would be Allen but at that time i would have gone with Hendo instead. For me its hindsight, you said at the time you would have gone with Allen. My choice wasn't based on performance though, mine was on getting a more defensive player off and trying for the win, in hindsight though it would have been better the other way. Wasn't accusing you of slating BR btw, just saying i wouldn't, especially based on a decision i agreed with even though it didnt work out
 

legalalien

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Unfortunately I didn't see the game, but it seems that yet again we conceded soft goals. And that's goals plural. It's like 2 or 3 per game. Do the people who complained about what I said after the Norwich game and conceding soft goals there, still think it's not important?

I can't comment on the performance as I didn't see it, but I do wonder why our defence is so slack this season compared to last when there haven't been any personnel changes. Is the second half of last season and our slack defending this season really all down to the absence of Lucas?
 

fcukManU

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Just saw the game in full. Apart from Assaidi who was uneffective, I can't really fault any of the players. Borini's movement was really good... and we passed the ball well, especially the first half. I'm rather pleased with that performance in all honesty, though we do have to accept a harsh lesson from it.

Classy performance from Di Natale too, great player.
 

yiannos33

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We were the better team but once again we have nothing to show at the end of the game.
I cant believe the ref not showing a red card when Downing past their defender and was grabed by the neck.
Borini was disappointing again and Assaid faded in the second half.
Reina made 2 good saves and can't. Be blame for their goals.
We just need a striker thawt can put the ball in the net.
 

Arminius

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Good to see BR calling a spade a spade... let's see how the players react to this on Sunday...
That is why the Europa League is so useful to this emerging team - make these mental mistakes on Thursday, come back with a vengeance on Sunday in the league. Udinese did what many teams will try to do against us, but few have a Di Natale.
 

LFC-Orlando

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Arminius, or that the PL is so useful to the EL and the domestic cups....

.... so we may qualify for EL again.

At least for this season, as we have no chance in the PL to even end up in EL spots (hope I'm dead wrong)
 

1dragon

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That is why the Europa League is so useful to this emerging team - make these mental mistakes on Thursday, come back with a vengeance on Sunday in the league. Udinese did what many teams will try to do against us, but few have a Di Natale.
Anzhi have one in Eto'o. We need to cut down on these defensive mistakes sooner or later.

Maybe, for European games, we need not care so much about possession for the time being and focus more on not conceding.
 

LFC-Orlando

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Anzhi have one in Eto'o. We need to cut down on these defensive mistakes sooner or later.

Maybe, for European games, we need not care so much about possession for the time being and focus more on not conceding.
I was saying that in the in-match thread. We were known to do to teams what Udinese did to us. That's how you win cups in Europe.

Our defense aims first at passing the ball the right way, and dancing the new dance - instead of preventing at any cost, the opponent from scoring.

All in the name of the free flowing footie. I certainly hope it works and we stop conceding 2+ goals per match.
 

hugo the horrible

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As with others I can't understand taking Hendo off,he was doing quite nicely for mine and has been pointed out he runs, I hope that BR recognises this lad has a bit of class to him.

Thought the first half was great, even Downing was reasonable-if that was his best it is not easy to see why we persevere with him.
Feel for Coates, he had a decent game apart from the og
Must confess to being still uncertain about Borini, we are thin enough in front as it is.

We certainly cannot afford to concede goals at the rate we are.

We are not out of EL yet though, expect to see a good performance against Stoke to continue our climb in the PL.
 

Gears

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Looking at the lineup, I thought we should have started with a bit more first team players considering this Udinese was champions league material last year. Di Natale is a top player, especially the last couple of years. He has a surprising burst of pace on top of it, which is why i'm shocked carragher started ahead of skrtel or agger.

I'm happy that henderson put in a good shift, but it seems like Rodgers still has the tendency to trust Gerrard even if he is not the type to pass and move. We should consider playing Shelvey as a forward once or twice. He's good on the ground, can play the one twos and knows where the back of the net is!
 

Arminius

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Arminius, or that the PL is so useful to the EL and the domestic cups....

.... so we may qualify for EL again.

At least for this season, as we have no chance in the PL to even end up in EL spots (hope I'm dead wrong)
I would like to see us do well in the EL, but at the end of the day, I see it as a means to an end. Games to develop youth, games to make mistakes in learning the systems, games to let the team cut their teeth in Europe so that when we get back to the CL, we compete. You are right, we probably will have done well (Cup or a top 6) to be in the EL again next year, but the more chances to blood young players the better.

Maybe it is too North American of a perspective, where there is sweet FA you can really do most of the time but rebuild through the draft, but I am not troubled by a three year build path. I have also been personally fortunate to be a part of a program rebuilding project, the need for absolute commitment to the idea is appealing and has resonance for me. I am just not going to get too upset in Year 1 when I see a defender making the same expected mistakes that Swansea's were making in League 1.

If anything, I see signs that we are moving ahead of the schedule. Heck, even Carra has been seen passing short to a midfielder.
 

LFC-Orlando

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What bugs me with the new "dance" though is that we are saying goodbye to long balls. Not just saying this because it's a problem for our Captain, as we again saw today.

I remember the way Pepe and our defenders were finding Fernando (and even Stevie). Same with other strikers before 2008.

I certainly hope Brendan's plan works, and I don't mind the "rebuilding" even if it's over 2 years. But the problem is lack of flexibility and bad results. Today was not a match to lose by conceding 3, as we are going down fast as far as defensive performance.

We are becoming the country's laughing stock at home, the way we give up points and goals. Here are the last 4 at home:

Citeh 2
Arsenal 2
Utd 2
Udinese 3

9 goals in 4

This is not good for Pepe, our defense, and the entire psychie of the team.

Also, the point about flexibility is that football is a near-scientific activity anymore. Each game and each opponent must be studied, and adjusted for. Cup competitions especially, continental cups, require a different approach. And today again, it appeared that we prescribing the same approach.

You say, it's because we are "practicing".....and I don't like that.

I don't like that anyone and everyone will come to Anfield and bully us around. Because we are so wonderful but we concede and lose. That will be nearly irepairable. It'll be part of our DNA and who we are.

Someone needs to explain this to our manager.
 



TTorroro

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First off not too worried we lost although the competition is good for the fringe players to show they got what it takes to contribute to the league first team.

Glad to see no one getting on reina back despite the 3 goals conceded.to put it simply, I'm happy with his snap reflex save off benatia header first half and the reaction he gave after that save.he still has that fire. Now we just need to sort out the coaching perhaps.as for the 3 goals he let in, I don't think many keeper on their day could keep those out.

Not going to go too indepth here but think had it not been for some great albeit few play by udinese and errors on our part the result would have been far more positive.
First goal down to johnson giving it away and great play and great finish by di natale.second goal a complete gift from Coates from a deadball who otherwise seem solid especially in one on one.didnt get a good look at third goal but seemed like our captain start it off by giving away the ball in middle.

Thought the much maligned downing did a good job. An assist and generally tidy play. He found a lease of life coming intoi the middle often after finding the flanks unbearable for much of his tenure with us.
 

Arminius

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What bugs me with the new "dance" though is that we are saying goodbye to long balls. Not just saying this because it's a problem for our Captain, as we again saw today.

I remember the way Pepe and our defenders were finding Fernando (and even Stevie). Same with other strikers before 2008.

I certainly hope Brendan's plan works, and I don't mind the "rebuilding" even if it's over 2 years. But the problem is lack of flexibility and bad results. Today was not a match to lose by conceding 3, as we are going down fast as far as defensive performance.

We are becoming the country's laughing stock at home, the way we give up points and goals. Here are the last 4 at home:

Citeh 2
Utd 2
Arsenal 2
Udinese 3

9 goals in 4

This is not good for Pepe, our defense, and the entire psychie of the team.

Also, the point about flexibility is that football is a near-scientific activity anymore. Each game and each opponent must be studied, and adjusted for. Cup competitions especially, continental cups, require a different approach. And today again, it appeared that we prescribing the same approach.

You say, it's because we are "practicing".....and I don't like that.

I don't like that anyone and everyone will come to Anfield and bully us around. Because we are so wonderful but we concede and lose. That will be nearly irepairable. It'll be part of our DNA and who we are.

Someone needs to explain this to our manager.
I am far less troubled by our defense this season than I am by the fact that we repeatedly come out soft after halftime. A lot of the goals have been primarily a function of mistakes up the field (as they always are), and the turnovers that lead to goals will naturally improve.

As to your overall point, at one level I agree with you. But the virtue of refusing to adjust your system of play in the early stages of committing to it is that it reinforces the commitment. When it is second nature, you can adjust but before that, it is not necessarily a useful compromise.

I don't really agree with your 'DNA' idea. That takes years of repetition, not even a single season can produce that. Losses like tonight make a team angry, and determined not to let it happen again unless they have a Downing-type mentality. I hope Stoke comes into a hornet's nest on Sunday.

People seem to sort of forget how much our defence struggled under Rafa in his early days, especially in the Premiership. There has probably never been a better manager for adjustments, but while he was getting his style across I remember some horrible goals. There were probably a couple more clean sheets at this stage in his first season, but the ones I recall were against clubs that were relegated or came damned close.

On the other hand, if Ayre had snapped Di Natale late on transfer deadline night, I would have been delighted.
 

TTorroro

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I was saying that in the in-match thread. We were known to do to teams what Udinese did to us. That's how you win cups in Europe.

Our defense aims first at passing the ball the right way, and dancing the new dance - instead of preventing at any cost, the opponent from scoring.

All in the name of the free flowing footie. I certainly hope it works and we stop conceding 2+ goals per match.
I hear what u say and I think for the time being you will just have to get used to the style we use as we will be using it for a long while for all the games. Even masters at this sort of game like barca seldom if ever deviate from the gameplan.

Fundamentally what you propose is on the opposite side of the coin to what BR vision is I think. Will be alarming to see him preach one thing and swop out another when the Europa league swings around
 

lfc.eddie

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However we want to justify our performance, beaten at home isn't exactly something we should search and dig deep to find positives from. There are nothing positive in leaking 3 goals at home. None at all.
 

alphakilo

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I just rewatched the part of the game after Suarez and Gerrard came on, and I don't think the third goal was Gerrard's fault alone - it was both his and Shelvey's. The idea after Gerrard came on was to make it two central attacking midfielders plus Allen, but this didn't mean they had no defensive duties whatsoever. If you watch replays of the goal, after Gerrard loses possession, both Gerrard and Shelvey decide to slowly meander back. If either one of them had put in that effort to cover that ground, he would've spotted the late runner. I think Gerrard realized this after the goal, because he evidently dropped a bit deeper.