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Post match: LFC 2-3 Udinese

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.
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That's a testament to their finishing rather than our defensive frailties in my mind. Yes we could have done better defensively obviously, but to put 2 out of 3 chances away in the fashion they did is excellent, they weren't easy chances i thought Di Natales goal was brilliant.

Imagine if we were able to put 2 out of 3 away :blink:
Completely agree with this. Typical Italian teams. They don't get many chances in their league, and need to make sure that their conversion rate is high in order to win matches.

Ironically, they have had a bit of problems putting chances away lately, but this time, they showed us how it has to be done.
 


SoueysTash

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Completely agree with this. Typical Italian teams. They don't get many chances in their league, and need to make sure that their conversion rate is high in order to win matches.

Ironically, they have had a bit of problems putting chances away lately, but this time, they showed us how it has to be done.
Yeh I spotted that when I was reccying their results prior to the match, we did provide them with plenty if assistance though. Hiring an Italian defensive coach might be the way forward
 

1988greatestteam

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Good young prospects - Happy
No strikers- annoyed
performance - happy
Defense- shocked
Results - frustrated

No one players deserves to be singled out for either a great performance or a poor performance. Neither do the coaching staff deserve to be singled out for great performance or poor performance.
But, looking at Jordan Henderson, and this is no slight on a good lad, on the bench last night after been subbed and the strain and effort on his face, I could not get the overriding thought out of my mind.
Despite the effort and the willingness of all concerned we are at best "Average" and the mediocrity is crippling us.
 

norwegian wood

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That's a testament to their finishing rather than our defensive frailties in my mind. Yes we could have done better defensively obviously, but to put 2 out of 3 chances away in the fashion they did is excellent, they weren't easy chances i thought Di Natales goal was brilliant.

Imagine if we were able to put 2 out of 3 away :blink:
That's a very good point. Di Natale's goal was brilliantly set up and executed, and Pasquale's shot was also a superb strike (although Di Natale should obviously never have been allowed to set him up so easily. We had two or three players around him, and I think they became too passive).

It doesn't hide the fact that we became sloppy and loose in the second half though. You get away with it against mediocre teams, but not against good teams.
 

Mascot88

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I cant believe the ref not showing a red card when Downing past their defender and was grabbed the neck.
I can because by the letter if the law it's a Yellow. It wasn't dangerous or reckless, and didn't deny a clear goal scoring opportunity.

I'd have liked to see a red because it was cynical and made absolutely no attempt to win the ball fairly. But the referee can't really give red without being very, very generous.

Although I believe there is a sub-clause to the rule headed 'Webb (Howard), fouls on Nani'.
 



gb1986

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I can because by the letter if the law it's a Yellow. It wasn't dangerous or reckless, and didn't deny a clear goal scoring opportunity.

I'd have liked to see a red because it was cynical and made absolutely no attempt to win the ball fairly. But the referee can't really give red without being very, very generous.

Although I believe there is a sub-clause to the rule headed 'Webb (Howard), fouls on Nani'.
That wasn't just a professional foul though, it wasn't like Downing was just dragged back, he was flung backwards onto the ground at pace... it was a rugby tackle pretty much, it's dangerous in my mind, just because there wasn't stoods or anything involved doesn't mean it can't injure him somewhere else, arm, neck, back etc

I get that by the letter of the law it's a technical foul and a yellow, but there must be a line somewhere between pulling someone back and a two footed lunge.

Needless to say, that decision probably wouldn't have had a huge impact on the result last night.
 

Arminius

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That wasn't just a professional foul though, it wasn't like Downing was just dragged back, he was flung backwards onto the ground at pace... it was a rugby tackle pretty much, it's dangerous in my mind, just because there wasn't stoods or anything involved doesn't mean it can't injure him somewhere else, arm, neck, back etc

I get that by the letter of the law it's a technical foul and a yellow, but there must be a line somewhere between pulling someone back and a two footed lunge.

Needless to say, that decision probably wouldn't have had a huge impact on the result last night.
It actually wasn't a dangerous tackle, his technique was quite good for a high tackle - got the arm wrap on the inside direction, pulled down on the outside shoulder. I am more inclined to go with the shoulder into the lower back-head down-arms wrap the legs method, better fundamentally, but he executed well.

Completely illegal in the game of association football, of course, but I can see why the ref only gave a yellow.
 

Matt

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My match report of sorts http://www.thisisanfield.com/2012/10/di-natale-shows-fsg-the-value-of-a-veteran/
 

Dane

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I take no pleasure from this, but too many people got too far ahead of themselves after wins against WBA and Norwich.
Rodgers has us playing some very nice football, but too often it is very very ineffective due to us not having adequate goalscoring talent on the books.

As for last night against quality opponents, Liverpool dominated, were woefully lacking in front of goal, and schoolboy defending led to goals conceded.

So, nothing new to see here then?
 

Bionic

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What is more worrying? Non-clinical finishing or bad defending?

For me it has to be the defending. You cant expect the forwards to score 3-4 goals to win a match every time. When was the last time a clean sheet was kept? Most likely the Gomel away leg.

Most of the goals that have been conceded thus far, are mistakes made by our own players.
 



ptt

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I was shocked at Gerrard's nonchalance after he lost the ball a second time in a very short period. Regardless of where he should have been playing, he lost it so he should get it back. If it had been the 88th minute and he was breathing like Joe Cole then I would expect an attempt even a slow one but he just jogged back. Laziness IMHO and not for the first time either.
 

legalalien

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What is more worrying? Non-clinical finishing or bad defending?

For me it has to be the defending. You cant expect the forwards to score 3-4 goals to win a match every time. When was the last time a clean sheet was kept? Most likely the Gomel away leg.

Most of the goals that have been conceded thus far, are mistakes made by our own players.
Last clean sheet was Hearts away. On 23rd of August. Ten games ago.

Not really good enough.
 

boogieonalice

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can't complain too much. We did well, and found our scoring ways. Moments of weakness gave away the lead, and we were unlucky not to claw back into it. The last 20 minutes or so were intense, really couldn't believe we didn't equalize.

Couple of interesting talking points (and i'm not blaming the ref for the result): first, when downing was pulled down it was only a yellow. Really could have gone either way there; it wasn't a goal-scoring opp. and the Udi player wasn't being violent, however, it was a sharp counterattack when we needed a goal, so you could argue red since he didn't play the ball and did whatever it took to stop us. Interesting.

Secondly, (this one baffled me a little), 4th official said +4 minutes of extra time, and the first minute of that was spent booking an italian. Then the center ref calls the game at 3.5minutes.
 

Never Say Never

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Two things.

I want to preface this by saying that I fully support Brendan, and want success for him. I'd never dream of questioning him. But apart from using youth (possibly not by choice) I don't see much of a difference from last season to this. We bossed games, but are still losing/drawing them. We just earn draws in a different style. I'm not quite sure why he's become such a darling already. I think he's still got quite a bit to prove (and I hope he does).

Second, on the rugby challenge from the Italian guy. I know people are up in arms, but I liked it. I wish a few of our players would do something like that. It would show they gave a shit. Give me a fucking Gattuso, Keane, Souness, Mascherano any day of the week. I come from the school of it doesn't matter how you do it, as long as you win. I don't mind my defenders making challenges like that to stop goals. I don't mind my strikers blocking goal bound efforts with their hands so their teams can advance in the world cup. I don't really give a shit if we have 1% possession and win. A year from now no one will look back and say, well they got three points, but it was ugly. They just see three points. Or Trophies.

Then again, this is coming from someone who's got a lot of respect for Tony Pulis and Stoke.
 

rab

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It actually wasn't a dangerous tackle, his technique was quite good for a high tackle - got the arm wrap on the inside direction, pulled down on the outside shoulder. I am more inclined to go with the shoulder into the lower back-head down-arms wrap the legs method, better fundamentally, but he executed well.

Completely illegal in the game of association football, of course, but I can see why the ref only gave a yellow.
In rugby that tackle warrants a penalty, a likely 3 points or a line out in the corner and a great scoring opportunity, a yellow card and ten minutes in the sin bin for the player.

In football it's a slap on the wrists and a punt into the box.
 



Druss

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Just not a team player and a liability at the moment esp the way BR wants to play
I'm not reading 7 pages worth of posts. However you've had two digs at our captain in your first two posts.

Taking his performances in his last 3 games into consideration I can claim 100% without doubt that u are talking utter bollocks!!

He was man of the match against Everton. played well against Norwich and when he came on last night. He tried to make things happen. we had several great chances at the end to level if not win the game.

Stevie didn't have a great 2011/12 season. However hes shown in these last few games he can fit into BR system and still look like one of our best players.

Not sure what games you've been watching. They certainly haven't been the same games I've watched!
 

Dhoff3

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This was an awful result, agree that there's nothing positive to take from this. Even when implementing the Rogers system, as we actually did really well tonight, our attack lacks an edge and we struggle to finish. Also our defense has been awful, absolutely leaking goals. Poor performances by Assaidi who us just seemed to get the ball out wide and dribble around with no real plan, and Borinni who, while not getting much service, does not look like a striker who's going to score a great deal of goals for us this season.

Downing was better, but it appears that we'll have to rely on the Suso, Sterling, Suarez setup to really create goals. We need more players desperately. I think we can beat every team in this group but this home loss means we'll have to lean on our 1rst team more to get the job done and advance.

Okay one positive, Suarez's form is magical, even if he doesn't finish every time, he is getting loads of chances and scoring quite a bit. He'll score 25 goals in all competitions for us this year.
 



ptt

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@NSN, he should have been off though and you're far less likely to win with 10 men on the pitch (if you're drawing or behind obviously)
 

Never Say Never

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@NSN, he should have been off though and you're far less likely to win with 10 men on the pitch (if you're drawing or behind obviously)
I’d still rather that than have players like Downing and Gerrard (yesterday) who just watch players run past them to score a goal, and then blame other people.

I’m going to get flak for saying this, but I think it needs to be said. While I consider myself very scottish, growing up in the united states has given me a much different perspective than English fans have. History is important, I agree. But the past doesn’t excuse the present mediocrity. How long can we use our 18 titles and 5 Champions league trophies to deflect our recent short comings. Isn’t it a bit sad to any of you that when we play Chelsea and lose are only comeback is you ain’t got no history? Wouldn’t you rather beat them in the league table or the champions league where it really matters? If we’re still title-less in 20
years, will we still be clinging to those 18?

The same can be said about Gerrard. He’s been a fantastic servant for the club, was instrumental in Instanbul, the FA cup win, and has been largely our best player in recent memory, showing great conviction and commitment. But that shouldn’t excuse his poor performances, and like someone else said, you’ve got to call a spade a spade. If he’s going to watch someone fucking run past him and push off the blame, he needs to be called out for it. Henderson played better than him. Plain and simple. Not saying Henderson is the better player, but on this day, he was. Gerrard needs to step it up. We need to demand the same consistency from Gerrard and Carragher than we do from Allen, Borini, and Henderson. They playing field should be level.
Look what Mourinho did at Real. Shipped out Guti and Raul. It was a hard decision but the right one. I’m not suggesting we do the same, but maybe be a bit more ruthless and call out EVERYONE who’s not playing well, and tell them to step it up or be dropped.
 

Never Say Never

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I realize that history is what built this club, but to accept mediocrity and to use history as a rebuttal for our lack of trophies does them an extreme disservice.
 

steve10

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Udinese are a decent team and when you have a player of the caliber of Di Natale you always have a chance. Liverpool played well in the first half and the later part of the second half. Many will not agree with me but we need a DM- Allen/Sahin/Gerrard are not defensive minded and Shelvey is too rash in his tackling which exposes the back four. Johnson like Skrtel is prone to 1 error every game that prooves costly.
 

Druss

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Udinese are a decent team and when you have a player of the caliber of Di Natale you always have a chance. Liverpool played well in the first half and the later part of the second half. Many will not agree with me but we need a DM- Allen/Sahin/Gerrard are not defensive minded and Shelvey is too rash in his tackling which exposes the back four. Johnson like Skrtel is prone to 1 error every game that prooves costly.
Steve your talking far to much sense for my liking ;-)
 



NZred

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Skittles (in the prem) and Carragher in everything else have become dead weight. Skittles is back to his old self of making stupid and costly mistakes almost every match. Carragher is just so slow he stands WAITING in the box for someone else to react.
 

LFC-Orlando

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NZred, totally uncalled for, as far as Martin, who was by far our player of the prior season.

You don't see anything strange in that? He's made 2-3 errors since the new style started.

He and other defenders are very much under pressure to pass accurately, forward or backwards. But no clearances are allowed, really.

Not blaming Rogers and I totally support him. But I don't agree with all his approaches including how he's treating Continental clashes.
 

1dragon

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I fully agree with LFC-Orlando's stance. It is fine to impose a style on the team. But to impose it no matter what the situation, who the opponent he team is up against is a sign of being stubborn.

We are not Barca or Spain. We do not have world class players to choose from, nor having at least 3 years to adjust to the new method. Football is pretty much a game based on instinct as it is based on intelligence. When a defender feels threatened in a situation, by all means, clear the ball. When the midfielder has no good options to pass to but has the ability to dribble, by all means do so. When the opposition is far more superior in retaining the ball than us, do we still stick to the same method?

Lets not get too absorbed by the system at the cost of results.
 

Dr_J

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If Shelvey hadn't cleared the ball off their line this would be a completely different thread.
 

Arminius

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NZred, totally uncalled for, as far as Martin, who was by far our player of the prior season.

You don't see anything strange in that? He's made 2-3 errors since the new style started.

He and other defenders are very much under pressure to pass accurately, forward or backwards. But no clearances are allowed, really.

Not blaming Rogers and I totally support him. But I don't agree with all his approaches including how he's treating Continental clashes.
My single favorite quote from Rodgers was something I heard him say last season, about needing to take responsibility as a manager for the mistakes that a player makes trying to absorb the style of play - and he was speaking specifically about defenders. He was absolutely explicit, those are his responsibility first and foremost. The defender needs to understand the situation and work to improve, but as a manager he felt he absolutely could not blame the player, it would work against what both he and the player were trying to achieve.

The polar opposite of Hodgson.