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POST Match: Liverpool 0-0 Stoke

Nikola

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We'll keep regretting the decision to let him go, and even more so will Rodgers...

But we have no choice for the time being than to make do with what we have got. To me, Suarez is not the right option as centre forward in a 4-3-3. Put him on the right of a proper striker, and things will get better imo. The only recognised proper striker we have presently is Borini. I don't see any other option but to play him as what he is: CF, and crossing fingers that he'll find his scoring boots for us. Suarez needs to be shifted to the right.
Or to the left in order to give Sterling some time to recover. He looked very tired towards the end of the game. I don't know it that was accumulated fatigue or just a consequence of being bullied throughout the whole game with almost no protection from referee but he's only 17 and our management need to have this in mind.
 

i_still_miss_fowler

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No one knows if Carroll would have played either. Even if he were still here.

I guess that makes me American then. Pathetic.
Before you quote me and then tag this on the end check if I have written anything anti-american.....
 

gl70

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There's nothing entertaining about Stoke. I've witnessed some incredibly entertaining Merseyside Derbies that were very physical, but also accompanied with some excellent football.

Watching a team hack and cynically foul their opponents for 90 minutes can only be entertaining to you if you're a fucking idiot. They're not a scapegoat at all, they're simply a bunch of twats playing the wrong sport.

/mini rant

Oh, and I'd rather watch spanish or italian football all day long than any stoke game. I've never watched a full 90 minutes of a stoke game and come away thinking anything other than what a boring bunch of untalented shithouses. Their game at arsenal earlier this season was the shittest thing I've ever watched on television.
who cares about how stoke play, that's entirely up to them.
 

alphakilo

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How is that post mentioned anything american. Man, some of you lot are getting a bit sensitive these days.
Which is why I said "on a separate note".

Because apparently any argument that gives FSG the benefit of the doubt is taken as pro-FSG, and therefore American. I'm sorry if you don't see where those sentiments are coming from.
 

Sine

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At least I had the pancakes cooked for the missus. Spot on.

Bring on January and another millions spent on strikers that will not prove to have bollocks scoring.

As you were.
 
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Carroll may or may not have scored but at least he would have offered us a Plan B in the dying stages of the game when our Plan A was not working. Very poor decision to let him go with no replacement lined up. Having him here is still better than nothing.
 

gl70

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We just can't catch a break can we? It's either us getting bad luck or no luck at all. Can't remember the last time we won a match where we didn't deserve to win (although this match we were definitely the better team).

Also what exactly was the point of bringing Cole on for Suso?
there comes a time when you have to stop talking about luck. the reds are not currently good enough. it has nothing to do with luck.
 

TTorroro

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We'll keep regretting the decision to let him go, and even more so will Rodgers...

But we have no choice for the time being than to make do with what we have got. To me, Suarez is not the right option as centre forward in a 4-3-3. Put him on the right of a proper striker, and things will get better imo. The only recognised proper striker we have presently is Borini. I don't see any other option but to play him as what he is: CF, and crossing fingers that he'll find his scoring boots for us. Suarez needs to be shifted to the right.
I think it's worth a try although I feel Suarez best position is in the middle . I can see why people argue he should be on the wide forward. However until we sort out our final ball and passing a nd movement in the box I fear borini will have limited impact in middle.
His asset is His movement and he doesn't offer the optional threat on his own. In other words , we need to give him those critical balls /passes for him to score or assist . He is like inzaghi , some poster mentioned , and so far I agree, not in terms of goals scoring feats (yet) but play style
 

mattyhurst

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Oh and as for discussions on the league table the position and points total that matters is the one at 38, I wish the press would stop going on about it, Some teams are yet to play the two manchester teams and Arsenal.
 

TheKaiser

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If we're reliant on either Cole or Carroll for anything, we're screwed. Neither has anything to offer.

Off day compounded by endless fouling. Did any Stoke player escape w/o a yellow? Only one team played football today, and we found it difficult. Still a clean sheet, which will please the defense first crowd. This was remiscent of KK's time here. Some might be pleased with that, but it's really a disappointment as Suarez tried to do too much on his own, Gerrard overhit ball after ball and Sterling was outmuscled for long periods. Only Suso made an impression, too bad his fitness meant Cole had to come on and be his standard useless self.

Not a characteristic performance or opponent. We'll keep moving on.
 

ILLOK

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who cares about how stoke play, that's entirely up to them.
Ok, what's your point?

As to those complaing about our lack of options (Carroll) at centre forward, is it not closer to the truth that our wide players have been the players that haven't performed well enough?

Suarez has been far better than all of them and he's scored a decent amount of goals too. One option is obviously to stick Suarez out wide and Borini in the centre, but you then risk nullifying our best attacking footballer.
 

gl70

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Sums up the game for me. How many players did they have booked by the end of the game? Would be extremely happy if they got relegated. Shame it won't happen.

Normally I defend Suarez in that he usually just exaggerates contact rather than flat out diving but that today was just embarrassing. I just cringed when I saw the replay. Rodgers needs to have a word.

A central forward is a must in January..
correct me if im wrong but suarez was stamped on here
 

GratefulRed

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Stoke finished the game with 4 natural centerbacks and 3 holding midfielders (N'Zonzi, Edu, Whitehead) they got the exact result they were looking for with that line up.

I Huth (stamp on Suarez) Wilson (two footed studs up challenge) and Kightly (Two footed studs up challenge on Allen) should have all been sent off. Not an excuse but good god can we catch one decent decision from a referee this season. We didn't create enough chances in the first half but the second was not bad. Skrtel hit the post, Glen should have scored and Suarez had a chance or two.

I know everyone is frustrated to see another shit game vs Stoke but we really didn't play some brilliant stuff at times. Very impressed again with the youngsters Sterling, Suso, and Wisdom. Also thought we matched their physicality better than in seasons past.
 

Red Armada

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Incredibly frustating game against a team of fucking thugs, who got what they wanted rather easily.

As for us, we were poor, very poor.
We had no organisation, no discipline, no penetration and no patience. I'm really pissed off with Suarez and Gerrard. For all the effort they put they were the worst culprits. They donned their superman capes and they decided that they're going to win the game on their own, ignoring their teammates. The former managed to dive shamefully not once but twice.

The whole team was a mess from start to finish. Our lines were way too far apart and there were plenty of times when we were all over the place. No one with a clear mind of what to do and how to do it. On the few occassions in which we played somewhat intelligently Stoke were under the cosh but overall what i saw today reminded me of school yard footie. On top of that we still won't commit players to the box which to me is beyond explanation at this point.

Rodgers had his worst game as well. Sahin was non existant and yet he stayed on the pitch for 3/4 of the game. Suso was having a fine second half and yet he's replaced by Cole ? Unless he was tired or had some other problem that was one bad move by the manager. And what happened to our 3rd substitution. We had an 11 million striker on the bench. God forbid we show some flexibility and put two strikers up front against a team that had 8 out of 11 constantly in the box.

As for this ridiculous run of bad luck, there is nothing more to be said.
 
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there comes a time when you have to stop talking about luck. the reds are not currently good enough. it has nothing to do with luck.
Of course the finishing has been poor for a while (something which should have been addressed in the summer) but the amount of times we have/continue to hit the post and the amount of times we have been at the end of poor officiating I believe it is fair to say we could do with getting a bit of luck on our side. I have seen us play well too many times only for us to lose points whereas other teams manage to get points/wins despite being the poorer side.
 

Nikola

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correct me if im wrong but suarez was stamped on here
He raised his shirt after the incident and I believe there was a stud mark - it was clearly visible and it could have been from that disgraceful stamp by Huth. He should have got a yellow card there, in my opinion. I wonder if FA will punish him retrospectively.
 

lfc.eddie

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If we're reliant on either Cole or Carroll for anything, we're screwed. Neither has anything to offer.

Off day compounded by endless fouling. Did any Stoke player escape w/o a yellow? Only one team played football today, and we found it difficult. Still a clean sheet, which will please the defense first crowd. This was remiscent of KK's time here. Some might be pleased with that, but it's really a disappointment as Suarez tried to do too much on his own, Gerrard overhit ball after ball and Sterling was outmuscled for long periods. Only Suso made an impression, too bad his fitness meant Cole had to come on and be his standard useless self.

Not a characteristic performance or opponent. We'll keep moving on.
You must be joking right? Your first line said never to rely on Cole, and your last line in your second paragraph defended the decision made by saying Suso having a fitness problem. If he has, i don't think anyone here sees it, unless again as you claimed, I may not know enough about football.
 

JackleCube

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I can't remember how long it's been since we played a game where you'd have said everyone on the pitch had a good game; where we won by three or four and kept a clean sheet and everything was just ideal; how I long for a game like that anytime soon, probably make a huge difference to my mood over the weekend.
 

No Men in the Box Redux

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Those crying out for the return of Carroll or the purchase of another out-and-out striker/goal-getter are simplifying things way too much.

How many clear cut chances did we actually create? Nothing will be solved if we simply played Carroll or any other striker up top with Suarez or even moved Suarez out wide. Suarez already drifts everywhere and as such, isn't a traditional striker anyways. What we need are players (I am talking specifically about wide players here or advanced midfielders as I strictly believe Suarez's best position is starting off by leading the line but given the license to play as a 'false 9' as the game progresses) who know how to capitalize on the space that Suarez creates and to apply the finishing that is necessary when the ball falls to their feet. In that sense, you can really understand why Borini was brought in and why Dempsey was so sought after. Again, I think the problem is with the service and the decision making in the final third and we were once again very poor in both those areas today despite dominating possession. Part of it is the lack of experience in our two young wingers and the other part of it is how poorly Gerrard fits in the system when he is being played almost as a supporting striker and I will elaborate on that later.

(1) The interplay of the front three and the inexperience of youth:
Now it is unfair to expect so much of the youngsters because they have already done so much to exceed expectations and you certainly can't fault either Sterling or Suso for their effort and tracking back today BUT, I think for all of Sterling, Suso and Suarez's good work in interplay, not enough of it was played out in dangerous areas and when it was the crucial time to pick out the right pass or to make the right run to create space, that failed to happen. I think this can be attributed to the lack of experience of the youngsters on the wings. They don't have the experience just yet to know when to make those runs in to the box to give Suarez an option when he drifts out wide. Furthermore, it is also obvious that their finishing and composure in front of goal isn't up there yet. Again, it really isn't their fault that so much is expected of them. To be honest, Rodgers shouldn't be put in a situation where he our two best wingers are 17 and 18 year olds but alas, that is the hand he has been given and there isn't much we can do about that yet until the January window opens.

As for the substitions, I don't know what Joe Cole was brought on for but that did nothing to help us at all. Assaidi was not given enough time to make an impression and it really should have been him and Borini coming on earlier instead of Joe Cole because Cole did nothing whatsoever to change the game. Assaidi would have added some pace and Borini would have really helped with his movement and apparent knack for getting goals.

(2) Gerrard cannot play as a creative midfielder in Rodger's system:
Finally, I want to echo everyone's disappointment with Gerrard's performance today - especially when he was playing as the creative midfielder or the attacking midfielder in Rodger's system. It is not working whatsoever. His decision making is extremely poor and he seems to not know what to do with the ball when we have possession right outside of the box. Often times, he is in too much of a hurry and his technique is letting him down. He isn't one to be dribbling pass defenders or making very clever runs to create space. He loses the ball way too cheaply and it is a real problem because he has such a presence and all the younger players are always looking to pass to him. In short, I think he is lost when played in this position under Rodger's system. It is important to note that the AM or creative midfielder in Rodgers' system is a position that demands a different set of skill and technique than the AM that plays in the hole under Rafa's 4-2-3-1 system. Gerrard right now is still playing too much as if he is the explosive, dynamic AM in Rafa's system with an emphasis on strength, pace, and quick counter attacks and too little like the contintental creative midfielder like Silva does for City or like Oscar/Mata does for Chelsea, and like Carzola does for Arsenal. These players play with a lot more emphasis on creating spaces for themselves using their superb technique, possession and inch-perfect passing. Gerrard, as I keep saying, is not that sort of player and his inability to hold on to the ball, make the right runs, beat defenders with trickery, and pick out the right passes is really hurting our overall play in the final third. And because he is our captain and such an experienced player, all the younger players are always giving him the ball and looking to him to create something and that in turn just compounds on things and make things worse when he loses the ball.

In conclusion, Suarez is our main striker and should continue to be played up top because that is his best position and his trickery and versatility in all parts of the final third and ability to drift and create spaces for others and chances for himself are his best attributes. What we need is for our senior players in Borini, Assaidi, and Downing to start performing now and use their experience to support Suarez and link up with him. We need to work on developing Shelvey, Suso and Sterling correctly and to not heap too much pressure on them. Ultimately, I believe our priority lies in signing a quality winger/forward come January that can ease the pressure on the youngsters and to show them a few things. Suarez is the man to build the team around and he is best played as a center forward with license to drift. Borini is showing signs that he is a very helpful player for his teammates but it is too early for us to tell whether he can really be as effective as a wide forward instead of as the central striker. This new acquisition needs to be as comfortable out wide as he is attacking spaces and playing as a striker. He should have enough experience to know how to capitalize on all the space Suarez creates and more importantly he must be a good finisher. Right now, the name that keeps coming to mind is Theo Walcott but it really doesn't matter who we sign as long as he is a quality winger/forward that can finish. Simply bringing back Andy Carroll won't solve anything. The ship has long sailed for that. It would do more harm than good for Rodgers to not trust in his system and his best players and instead bring Carroll back in to the mix. Finally, Gerrard should not be played in an advanced role. He is nowhere near patient enough and he does not have the movement, technique, deft passing, and close control to operate as such a creative midfielder. I think we should look at Shelvey, Sahin or Asasidi to play in that role going forward. I would even go as far as to say that maybe when Lucas comes back and we have all our other midfielders fit, Gerrard should be benched.
 

Digary

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correct me if im wrong but suarez was stamped on here
Apologies I meant the dive in the box was embarrassing. That gif I just put up to illustrate Stoke being complete dirt and kicking us around all game long.
 

sami

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Think BR gave Cole that game for old times sake. That does it for him in the Premier League. Role on Anzhi for Cole, appearance off the bench and an unsurprising wave goodbye in January.
 

i_still_miss_fowler

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We'll keep regretting the decision to let him go, and even more so will Rodgers...

But we have no choice for the time being than to make do with what we have got. To me, Suarez is not the right option as centre forward in a 4-3-3. Put him on the right of a proper striker, and things will get better imo. The only recognised proper striker we have presently is Borini. I don't see any other option but to play him as what he is: CF, and crossing fingers that he'll find his scoring boots for us. Suarez needs to be shifted to the right, as he otherwise tries to do everything by himself, and runs into a wall time and time again (apart from when he hits a 100% day like at Norwich).
If you look back at the Norwich game, one of the key differences was how Sahin pushed forward into what would be the position of a striker (even though he was very much a midfielder most of the game). When Suarez scored two of his goals it was when he was able to drop off, as Sahin was preoccupying the central defenders.

Suarez needs that little bit of space, which requires another player to lead the line, so he can find that half a yard.
 

Nikola

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Think BR gave Cole that game for old times sake. That does it for him in the Premier League. Role on Anzhi for Cole, appearance off the bench and an unsurprising wave goodbye in January.
God willing, it will be that way. Assaidi hasn't had a good game against Udinese but was very good in his previous outings. I felt that he, Borini and Henderson should have come on earlier but that could be a mistake Rodgers will eventually learn from.
 



ChicagoRed

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He raised his shirt after the incident and I believe there was a stud mark - it was clearly visible and it could have been from that disgraceful stamp by Huth. He should have got a yellow card there, in my opinion. I wonder if FA will punish him retrospectively.
In the U.S on fox soccer plus they showed the replay and it was Huth. Clear stomp clear red. The announcers even said so. If the FA dont do anything its a disgrace. That was not a yellow. Much worse than what Rooney did.
 
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Those crying out for the return of Carroll or the purchase of another striker are simplifying things way too much.

How many clear cut chances did we actually create? Nothing will be solved if we simply played Carroll or any other striker up top with Suarez or even moved Suarez out wide. Suarez already drifts everywhere and as such, isn't a traditional striker anyways. What we need are players who know how to capitalize on the space that Suarez creates and to apply the finishing that is necessary when the ball falls to their feet. In that sense, you can really understand why Borini was brought in and why Dempsey was so sought after. Again, I think the problem is with the service and the decision making in the final third are our main issues and we were once again very poor in both those areas today despite dominating possession. Part of it is the lack of experience in our two young wingers and the other part of it is how poorly Gerrard fits in the system when he is being played almost as a supporting striker and I will elaborate on that later.
I think you just contradicted yourself in that paragraph. Like you said what "we need are players who know how to capitalize on the space that Suarez creates and to apply the finishing that is necessary when the ball falls to their feet". And that's why our main priority in the summer should have been to buy a clinical forward and not necessarily another creative midfielder which we have got enough of already.

The service is ok and the amount of chances we create are ok. The problem is we don't have a reliable forward who can consistently finish off those chances/half-chances. And in the end we end up relying too much on Suarez to try and create plus finish everything for himself. Ideally he should be playing just behind a clinical forward.
 

lfc55555

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Ok, what's your point?

As to those complaing about our lack of options (Carroll) at centre forward, is it not closer to the truth that our wide players have been the players that haven't performed well enough?

Suarez has been far better than all of them and he's scored a decent amount of goals too. One option is obviously to stick Suarez out wide and Borini in the centre, but you then risk nullifying our best attacking footballer.
indeed suarez has got 5 from 6. the striker wasnt the problem today, because its not like we werent finishing. their keeper barely had a shot to save today.

you need a better striker when you pepper them with shots at goals and their keeper is man of the match.

if we are trying to play the barcelona way, they dont put crosses into a busy box, when theyre out wide and see the penalty flooded with shirts they play the ball back again and into central midfield and work their way back in again.

the difference is that they have messi who can score 50 goals in a season by sneaking into the box.

passing the ball around isnt what makes barcelona great, its their guile and penetration. many teams in spain and italy like to pass the ball around and keep possession but that doesnt make them barcelona just because they play that way.
 

canucky008

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Allen is not a defensive midfielder. How I wish Lucas was back. Allen can then move up to the classic number "10" position

Speaking of number 10 Why the fuck is Joe (better than Messi) Cole wearing that number. He is not a number 10.

C'mon he's past it. Can we move on. He makes Charlie Adam look good
 

104TOSH

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i really don't see why how stoke play has anything to do with the shortcomings of the lfc team.
just stating a fact - Stoke play neanderthal football to perfection.

As for the shortcomings of our team, well that's something glaringly obvious and its becoming rather tedious to keep repeating what everyone already knows - we need a goalscorer(yawns)and have done for some time.

Time for a nap, the excitement was just too much!!!