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POST Match: Liverpool 0-0 Stoke

ChicagoRed

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If you look back at the Norwich game, one of the key differences was how Sahin pushed forward into what would be the position of a striker (even though he was very much a midfielder most of the game). When Suarez scored two of his goals it was when he was able to drop off, as Sahin was preoccupying the central defenders.

Suarez needs that little bit of space, which requires another player to lead the line, so he can find that half a yard.
Suarez hardly stays as a centeral forward in a 4-3-3 and roams all over. Putting him on the right and cutting half the space you talk about is not the way to go.
 

DCJ

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watched via stream. Overalll work rate, possession, creativity and desire was impressive. Unfortunately ground hog day again....we need a word class finisher. Hopefully it is resolved with urgency in january or fighting at the bottom half will not be pretty.

You can tika taka all you like but in the end someone has to put in the net for you to win.
 

i_still_miss_fowler

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Suarez hardly stays as a centeral forward in a 4-3-3 and roams all over. Putting him on the right and cutting half the space you talk about is not the way to go.
And yet with best scoring record is with Ajax (111 goals in 159 games) playing in a wide position of a front 3.
 

gasband

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Stoke is as dirty as any team can get.

Stoke is well organised at the back.

We are just so lethargic. Our 1st half hardly is a team interested to win.

2nd half we up the tempo but none of the players bar Suarez and I mean players who were expected to step up like Gerrard and Sahin were good enough. But its not just them, we just did not break them down as a team.

Devoid of ideas. Bad finishing, Suarez and Johnson could have scored but as again, we did not.

Clean sheet is a positive but overall, it is a disappointment.
 

jimmydestiny

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Today showed that while the youth are excellent, we need proven quality to help them out.
 

costared

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I thought Suso was being more effective than Sterling when he came off but I accept that Sterling continued to put it all in and looked very fit.
I think that we allow teams to park the buss by being to slow to get the ball forward, not saying play hoofball, just make the forward pass earlier.
Disappointed with the amount of high balls we did lump into the box. Surely it is better to cross hard and low against teams like this.
Also disappointed with our lack of imagination at free kicks.Always a hopeful shot or a high cross, wast e of time against teams like this.
I have never liked to see 2 wide players in a 433 . I believe that when attacking on one flank the other winger should get in the box. Full backs can cover the width situation. We do not get enough players into the box that is for sure.
 

ChicagoRed

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And yet with best scoring record is with Ajax (111 goals in 159 games) playing in a wide position of a front 3.
Thats a proper league, just a little different week in and out to the epl. You put Suarez in the middle he will eclipse that. We need a proper wing forward more than anything. Anyways, Suso was the best player for me. The entire midfield was awful and why we couldnt break them down.
 

Arminius

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Well, in the pre-match there was some debate as to who was dirtier, Huth or Shawcross. While both put in a solid effort, Huth's stamp clearly earns him the nod.

That was a depressingly familiar Stoke game. Weak game from Allen and Suso, and Sterling was struggling though I thought he finished strong. Suso in particular seemed to be affected by the repeated collisions, though he seemed to get angry and start to play a little better.
 

EdWood

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And yet with best scoring record is with Ajax (111 goals in 159 games) playing in a wide position of a front 3.
Absolutely. Suarez is devastating when cutting into the area from wide left or right; how many times have we seen him nutmeg a defender near the byline? A lot. Imagine the damage he and Assaidi could do with a natural finisher in the middle to take advantage of their pullbacks. We need a reliable striker!
 

RichLFC

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Bit like the old Man U flag

'3 years of excuses and it's still crap'

But they were primed to explode with the PL era

With us there is far, far too big a separation between the standard of the team these days and the way it's being run and operated and the size of the club worldwide and the support base

They are being sold a boggy and people are trying to almost talk themselves in to accepting mediocrity on the basis of jam tomorrow scenarios

Last summer has killed this season stone dead. Options just don't exist

Glazers are LBO men, so why can they help Ferguson buy a top striker and ours who say they aren't in it for that kind of thing prove to be completely unhelpful? Makes me mad as hell, it really does

We should be doing better than this but all we seem to be heading towards is sustainable mediocrity at this rate. The number of teams I see us beating home and away is a dwindling number year on year

Sorry, but just getting a bit tired of this situation. Things may look like they are changing surface wise but dont quite see the substance. That comes from intent at the top level. Not there for me
 

craigbellamy

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Good lord, with the "jog on" and "take a walk" that are being said so far, a lot of posters will be fitter than Joe Cole!!

Out of the three prem games, this middle fixture was the one that i felt we would drop points, if any. It's frustrating but not surprising as Stoke play that way and our youngsters will be battered by those idiots. Let's get one thing straight, Carroll ain't coming back and saying that he would of scored this one or that one is futile. He's not there. Having a go at the board is also futile due to the transfer window being closed for months. What is important is that we support, be patience and wait until January because nothing will happen until then.

And finally, i will choose to "walk on", as all LFC do.................
 

lfc.eddie

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Glazers are LBO men, so why can they help Ferguson buy a top striker and ours who say they aren't in it for that kind of thing prove to be completely unhelpful? Makes me mad as hell, it really does
They are in debt you know. In a few years, they will be in trouble, like how it was said a few years back.
 

TTorroro

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I thought Suso was being more effective than Sterling when he came off but I accept that Sterling continued to put it all in and looked very fit.
I think that we allow teams to park the buss by being to slow to get the ball forward, not saying play hoofball, just make the forward pass earlier.
Disappointed with the amount of high balls we did lump into the box. Surely it is better to cross hard and low against teams like this.
Also disappointed with our lack of imagination at free kicks.Always a hopeful shot or a high cross, wast e of time against teams like this.
I have never liked to see 2 wide players in a 433 . I believe that when attacking on one flank the other winger should get in the box. Full backs can cover the width situation. We do not get enough players into the box that is for sure.
Simple yet great observations. Although I think the high balls are played more due to the need for ball to at least clear the first stoke man , never mind their cb eventually clear it anyway. The issue of sending low crosses in is compounded by your observation we fail to overload in numbers mostly by getting more than 2 man in box. you need more players for a low cross to get to a man.

The value add of Suarez who drifts anywhere and inevitably has defenders following due to his threat , needed to be exploited by any player with intelligence to run into the spaces in middle. It is this that I argue his best position is in the middle complemented by good intelligent players who can exploit it. Gerard can do so but he is below his usual game. Our 2 wide forwards ,young as they are, fail to achieve this. So what usually happen is when Suarez gets ball coming in deep in the middle , the option to pass into box is often not there.
 

LFC-Orlando

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Rich I enjoy reading your posts so much. As if we have a resident unbiased Tomkins on staff.

Thank you.

I hope someone shares this with the powers that be, and to me it's not just the owners.

The owners are clueless about the subject matter they got themeselves into. So our Manager (who's their man and hired gun) and the MD (who's got just under an ounce of trust left in him) need to help the owners understand what's needed.
 

Prolix

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So we drew, with a clean sheet, against one of the most uniquely challenging (and thuggish) teams in the Premier League, during arguably our most significant transitionary period yet... and people are angry about it?

Okay then.
 

TheKaiser

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You must be joking right? Your first line said never to rely on Cole, and your last line in your second paragraph defended the decision made by saying Suso having a fitness problem. If he has, i don't think anyone here sees it, unless again as you claimed, I may not know enough about football.
Eddie, can you do me a favor? Stop responding to my posts as you rarely understand what I say and then make some point that itself is barely intelligible. No offense, I know English isn't your first language. It's just that you respond to 75% of my posts.

I never defended the decision to bring Cole on for Suso, I just said that Suso was tiring (seemingly, otherwise there was no reason to take him off) and Cole consequently came on. I would have rather seen Borini or Henderson, personally. You've connected two points that have nothing to do with each other, aside from the fact that both make the point that Cole is awful.

You just try to make the tiniest points imaginable when you've clearly not understood what was written in the first place.
 

LFC-Orlando

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[quote name='craig bellamy's golf club' timestamp='1349629154' post='10868']
Good lord, with the "jog on" and "take a walk" that are being said so far, a lot of posters will be fitter than Joe Cole!!

Out of the three prem games, this middle fixture was the one that i felt we would drop points, if any. It's frustrating but not surprising as Stoke play that way and our youngsters will be battered by those idiots. Let's get one thing straight, Carroll ain't coming back and saying that he would of scored this one or that one is futile. He's not there. Having a go at the board is also futile due to the transfer window being closed for months. What is important is that we support, be patience and wait until January because nothing will happen until then.

And finally, i will choose to "walk on", as all LFC do.................
[/quote]

Fine, but you are not mentioning the need for the build-up that's in need here, in order to not waste the January chance.

if we just continue to be supportive, patient and sometimes apathetic, our owners might just accept that time, and no other intervention, is all that's needed.

Some said that our supporters should have done better today, so as to not hear a pin drop during the match.

Silence speaks louder than words. And the world's most knowledgeable fan base knows this. It's psychology 101.

So, no. I won't be silent. Like a Board Member of a corporation, when I see signs of concern, I'll be relentless. I am the Board Member and the Paying Customer, and my owners know this.

So they will continue to hear from me and from the "silent" Kop.

Cause I don't want another sad, apologetic letter from Mr. Henry come January.
 

RichLFC

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They are in debt you know. In a few years, they will be in trouble, like how it was said a few years back.
Well that's the idea. The real world as you may agree sadly points more on a profitable brand, big bastard stadium etc which would look good on some Sheikhs headed notepaper one day

This situation though seriously irritates me, and sorry to those out there who disagree, but I won't forget this Lernerish nonsense that went on

It's just so annoying really because I bet a few of us saw these situations coming a mile off. More things change, the more they stay the same

Wonder if Rodgers may start doing a Moyes and start looking at the 40 point mark before too long. My guess is we will finish half way up the table but if I was in uk and seeing a 100-1 shot at relegation, be thinking its worth a cheeky tenner

Not getting enough points or results and it will not get easier if you can't win at home
 

Never Say Never

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We could've beaten stoke. We should have beaten stoke. Their style of play doesn't matter, and refereeing decisions shouldn't have prevented us from three points. 11 v 11, we should've beaten them.

We didn't get three points, and we should've. That's all that matters to me.
 

craigbellamy

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Fine, but you are not mentioning the need for the build-up that's in need here, in order to not waste the January chance.

if we just continue to be supportive, patient and sometimes apathetic, our owners might just accept that time, and no other intervention, is all that's needed.

Some said that our supporters should have done better today, so as to not hear a pin drop during the match.

Silence speaks louder than words. And the world's most knowledgeable fan base knows this. It's psychology 101.

So, no. I won't be silent. Like a Board Member of a corporation, when I see signs of concern, I'll be relentless. I am the Board Member and the Paying Customer, and my owners know this.

So they will continue to hear from me and from the "silent" Kop.
I take it you didn't like my joe cole joke then........

Though most supporters will grumble, and have a perfect right to, the only time a board takes notice is when the crowds stay away and when that happens at Anfield, i'll be shouting the loudest.

Fair play.
 

Hope in your heart

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And yet with best scoring record is with Ajax (111 goals in 159 games) playing in a wide position of a front 3.
Yeah, that's what people need to realise. He's actually better when allowed a bit more space. He'll score more goals from a wide position, and provide more threat if he can play with a proper center forward.
 

Red Armada

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Bit like the old Man U flag

'3 years of excuses and it's still crap'

But they were primed to explode with the PL era

With us there is far, far too big a separation between the standard of the team these days and the way it's being run and operated and the size of the club worldwide and the support base

They are being sold a boggy and people are trying to almost talk themselves in to accepting mediocrity on the basis of jam tomorrow scenarios

Last summer has killed this season stone dead. Options just don't exist

Glazers are LBO men, so why can they help Ferguson buy a top striker and ours who say they aren't in it for that kind of thing prove to be completely unhelpful? Makes me mad as hell, it really does

We should be doing better than this but all we seem to be heading towards is sustainable mediocrity at this rate. The number of teams I see us beating home and away is a dwindling number year on year

Sorry, but just getting a bit tired of this situation. Things may look like they are changing surface wise but dont quite see the substance. That comes from intent at the top level. Not there for me
As is our stature both in England and overseas. Someone over at RAWK posted what an inbred fan of Stoke thought about the upcoming fixture. The fuckwit had absolutely no respect for us. The fear factor that we used to have is all but gone. Just about every team in the league sees a game against us as a chance to earn points.

I'm not sure but i think that we've got less than 5 victories at Anfield since the turn of the year. I know for sure that we haven't won 3 consecutive matches since the spring of 2011. That's just shocking for any club, even more so for one that is supposedly among the elite. The worst part is that we did it to ourselves. There is nobody else to blame. I find it utterly ironic that under H & G when we were headed for disaster we had a far better squad than these days when we are thriving commercially.
 

AnfieldCat

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Forget missing Carroll, we really miss the likes of Kuyt, Maxi and Bellamy who were all good for coming off the bench and getting a goal, I know all of them wanted to leave but still havn't been replaced adequately.

Why wasn't Borini brought off the bench?
 

craigbellamy

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LFC-Orlando.

Reference that letter, it was a sad piece of PR i agree. I have also noticed that there has been uproar at the Red Sox, manager sacked and all. Maybe they have had other things on their mind and dropped the ball and all.

But this is off topic and again, won't make much difference until January, so there. With Downing, Cole and others hopefully shifted during that time even they realise that a striker is needed. He'll need more than a letter if we fail then.

As for the games up until then, we might win them all. You never know.
 

ptt

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I think there was one colossal positive today, no legs/knees/necks/ribs were snapped. My God Stoke were rough, even more so than normal. I, like everybody else don't really understand why the ref didn't just red card the whole squad. He obviously had a chat with their captain running upto half time but it was way too late by then.

I've been very impressed with Crouch the few times I've seen him play this year, he is a very good footballer and the fact that we kept him so quiet is a positive. All match long I was expecting an Adam cross and a Crouch header. We might not have had teeth up front but we did well at the back.

I do though live in constant fear of the endless passing back to Pepe going horribly wrong. When two strikers are lingering on the edge of our box, we shouldn't be knocking it about in triangles, it's just too risky (City game springs to mind) I know BR actively encourages it but it's the metaphotrical equivalent of walking into a lions cage and flicking his love spuds with a towel.

Unless I'm wrong, BR did sign a striker in the transfer window, Borini just doesn't seem to be quite at the races yet. Still, Henry had a donkey of a season when he first joined Arsenal so I'm not worried. Carroll may have scored a hatrick today, we'll never know but I really doubt it.

As for our front 3, the future is amazingly bright. I though Sterling had an excellent game given his age and experience. He is just so damn tenecious, a tallent that I hope spreads to some of his older team mates. He, Suso and Suarez all looked excellent, the only problem was that they were all reading different scripts. Give it a few months and they'll start to click together and score goals by the bucket-full.

I think that Cole's involvement was down to non footballing reasosns. A few cameos (I wouldn't trust his hamstrings for more than 20 minutes) and a few goals makes him a much better target come January than a bottom full of splinters. If I were FSG I'd be asking why he plays so little and earns so much and demanding a change in that situation or a strategy to get him out. He wasn't terrible but we have young hungry kids with potential who could have had that lesson in avoiding a "Stoking".

Stevie played better than he has of late but I'm not the first to comment that he reverted to plan B with about 30 mins left to go with the tiny problem that we didn't have Carroll up front. Constant long balls and chips into the box were not going to work today. Good to see he's not lost the desire to shoot from distance, he just needs a heavy dose of re-calibration. Still can't take freekicks for toffee though.....

I really would love to see Coates in the back 4 and Agger played as DM. He's an excellent ball winning footballer with pace, intelligence and the abillity to drive forward. Reminds me of Yaya over at City. I think he's wasted at CB, certainly whilst Lucas is out.

All in all sad that we didn't win today but there are many positives to take from today and an obviously bright and shining future. Sign Ian Rush's genetically identical son in January and we'll finish 4th with a fabulous late run.

Whatever happens, we WILL have a new striker in January, whether it's a new guy or Peter Crouch's ponytailled doppleganger only time will tell. What then will people clammor for when we can't beat a team that parks the bus at Anfield?
 



TTorroro

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Bit like the old Man U flag

'3 years of excuses and it's still crap'

But they were primed to explode with the PL era

With us there is far, far too big a separation between the standard of the team these days and the way it's being run and operated and the size of the club worldwide and the support base

They are being sold a boggy and people are trying to almost talk themselves in to accepting mediocrity on the basis of jam tomorrow scenarios

Last summer has killed this season stone dead. Options just don't exist

Glazers are LBO men, so why can they help Ferguson buy a top striker and ours who say they aren't in it for that kind of thing prove to be completely unhelpful? Makes me mad as hell, it really does

We should be doing better than this but all we seem to be heading towards is sustainable mediocrity at this rate. The number of teams I see us beating home and away is a dwindling number year on year

Sorry, but just getting a bit tired of this situation. Things may look like they are changing surface wise but dont quite see the substance. That comes from intent at the top level. Not there for me
U said it , last season transfer made us skint in the market this year. The reality is our owner so far will not dip too much into their pockets to give a short term boost. Their vision , whether we like it or not, is short term bitter pill and long term bliss( subject to several ifs) .

I would ,too, like them to be able to leverage on our brand name and global fan base to derive a bigger money pipe to fund the first teAm. But like it or not, the manc has been well run for more than a decade and we have been somewhat on the opposite fence of that. In terms of monetizing our global presence it will take years to reach the potential let alone catch up with manc. I think since they have taken over the club, the revenue has picked up and credits's due in that regard.

Also I'm not too keen on saddling debt onto thr club to front load the club with short term success. It's a bitter pill in light of years of mediocrity but could be the right pill.

After the transfer disaster last year, we pretty much expect this year to be skint in terms of more money being laid out. As fans though I wish the owners can dough out more but can't really fault them if they skint. Right now, patience , which can betough on back of poor results, is needed.

I'm firmly with ya in that I see bettering last year position as a good goal this season.
 

redalways

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Am I the only one who thinks that had we actually bought someone on the last day of summer, it would more than likely have been another Downing/Carroll scenario of over-paying? Am I the only one who also thinks that we suffered because of the 2011 summer transfer window rather than now for our reputation of over-paying for players resulting in us being unable to get any player worth it?

I don't get it, first we were told that we were going to start making sound financial decisions when buying players so as not to overextend ourselves, but then now when we are ACTUALLY doing that, fans are whining and whining. Which finisher of value could we have gotten in the transfer market that we didn't?

But enough of that. Today's game was probably the most lacklustre in effort I've seen since the start of the season, but no, again it's the owners' fault. Perhaps if we didn't manage to score because we had so many easy chances that went by because we only had one striker available then that's fine. But today, TODAY, we lost because of not being incisive enough, not making enough effort, and generally not being as energetic as we have been in previous games. There was no slick movement and passing, the intelligent runs from anybody. Sloppy all around except in defence, which is kind of ironic given our recent games.

A striker would not have helped us win this game. We have to admit that this was a game we played terribly.
 

ptt

2019, a year of incredible celebration
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Bit like the old Man U flag

'3 years of excuses and it's still crap'

But they were primed to explode with the PL era

With us there is far, far too big a separation between the standard of the team these days and the way it's being run and operated and the size of the club worldwide and the support base

They are being sold a boggy and people are trying to almost talk themselves in to accepting mediocrity on the basis of jam tomorrow scenarios

Last summer has killed this season stone dead. Options just don't exist

Glazers are LBO men, so why can they help Ferguson buy a top striker and ours who say they aren't in it for that kind of thing prove to be completely unhelpful? Makes me mad as hell, it really does

We should be doing better than this but all we seem to be heading towards is sustainable mediocrity at this rate. The number of teams I see us beating home and away is a dwindling number year on year

Sorry, but just getting a bit tired of this situation. Things may look like they are changing surface wise but dont quite see the substance. That comes from intent at the top level. Not there for me
FSG gave a huge amout of money to a new manager and it didn't work. They replaced the manager and maybe, just maybe they said to him "Here's a bit of cash, spend it wisely, show good progress and you can have double that in the next window"

I say we are showing good progress even if the results don't agree. We were outplayed in Istanbul but the history books say we won, we should have lost that game but we didn't. Football, of all games is one where the best team doesn't always win but over the course of a whole season, the best team does win. How many games in are we under an entirely new structure, style, manager, etc ?
 

steve10

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Brendan Rodgers doesnt have a PLAN B- major problem. Carroll would have been the ideal Plan B- specially against a team like Stoke.
 

No Men in the Box Redux

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I think you just contradicted yourself in that paragraph. Like you said what "we need are players who know how to capitalize on the space that Suarez creates and to apply the finishing that is necessary when the ball falls to their feet". And that's why our main priority in the summer should have been to buy a clinical forward and not necessarily another creative midfielder which we have got enough of already.

The service is ok and the amount of chances we create are ok. The problem is we don't have a reliable forward who can consistently finish off those chances/half-chances. And in the end we end up relying too much on Suarez to try and create plus finish everything for himself. Ideally he should be playing just behind a clinical forward.
I don't think so. The first point I was making is that Suarez needs to be in that false 9 role to be at his most effective and I think Rodgers realized that which is why he was so willing to let Carroll go. Bringing Carroll back in would just undo all the good work the team has made learning this system. You can sort of equate it to Pep's mistake of buying Ibrahimovic. Ultimately, he realized that Messi was their best player and he was best utilized up top because of his movement, creativity and finishing ability. Arguably, Suarez's composure in front of goal, finishing and poaching still need to be worked on but I strongly disagree that we created enough chances today. How many of them were actually clear chances? How many times did we actually have a real shooting opportunity that wasn't outside of the box? As well, crosses whipped into the area when no one is even close to the receiving end do not count as chances. And believe you me, Andy Carroll would NOT have gotten at the end of any of those because he'll still be hanging out in some other area of the field and even if he does make the run, it would be him against 4 other Stoke defenders because none of our other wingers or midfielders know how to make good supporting runs. I am strictly against pushing Suarez out to wide and bringing in any other striker that is only brought in here to score goals. UNLESS, that striker is really of such a high caliber that he has superb link up play, and has the movement to create spaces for Suarez to come in on from wide. But a striker of such goal-scoring ability, technical ability, passing ability and mobility are really hard to find and will certainly cost us upwards of 30 million quid. Only players like Falcao, Tevez, maybe Benzema can really play that role right now. Llorrente is a bit of a question mark and is still very much of a pipe dream anyways. We won't be able to get strikers of such a quality at this stage so there is no point really in talking about it. Suarez should be our false 9 and we need to build around him.

Also, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think we need another creative midfielder. My other point was that Gerrard is not a very effective creative midfielder but I do believe that Shelvey, Sahin and maybe even Assaidi can play that role for us quite effectively but my whole point all along is that we need another wide forward, not a winger, not a striker and certainly not a creative midfielder because we are not dangerous enough in the final third. Our play is breaking down far too often because of poor decisions and a lack of supporting runs. Not enough genuine chances are created. Our two other senior players, Borini and Assaidi do not look like the goods right now and Downing and Joe Cole are lost causes so Rodgers is forced in to the uncomfortable position of relying on 17 and 18 year olds to come up with the goods. Right now we are relying much too heavily on our youngsters and it isn't fair on them. We need a quality wide forward that can bring smart movement, assists and goals into the team as soon as possible. A modern wide forward...an inverted winger if you will. And there are certainly more of those in the market that we can look at and have a realistic chance of getting than say your ideal striker that is really good enough and has all the right attributes to get goals, lead the line AND fit in to our system as a whole and push Suarez out wide. I really don't see that happening and honestly don't think that is the way forward because Suarez, for me, is best when he can roam anywhere he pleases as a false 9, and I think with the right players around him, we will get it right.