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POST Match: Liverpool 0-0 Stoke

ptt

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One point that I also think is rather important. If Luis Suarez can learn to do the simple thing (put the ball in the net from close range) after the virtually impossible thing (which he does repeatedly, every match), he will be the best player in the world by a country mile. He did things today that transcended mere football but as he didn't score, that's all some people see.
 

mattyhurst

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Brendan Rodgers doesnt have a PLAN B- major problem. Carroll would have been the ideal Plan B- specially against a team like Stoke.
Another overhyped idea, I can't think what other teams have a plan b, they have other options and Carroll would be to an extent that but I would rather have options Rodgers wants, so yes other options, but Plan B sounded like hoof ball not what I want to see back here.

You know who would have been good today, jojo Shelvey.

 

fivetimesredmen

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The thing that frustrates me the most this season is our inability to get more bodies in the box when we are attacking, tbh thouugh i am a everton fan so my point really isnt valid haha

Edit - no matter what happens this season just remember not to leave your lap top in mid post writing while your 18 yr old son is home from Uni cos the little shite will think its amusing to post what is posted above - my part written post was the bit about not getting men in the box
 

BostonMick

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I don't think so. The first point I was making is that Suarez needs to be in that false 9 role to be at his most effective and I think Rodgers realized that which is why he was so willing to let Carroll go. Bringing Carroll back in would just undo all the good work the team has made learning this system. You can sort of equate it to Pep's mistake of buying Ibrahimovic. Ultimately, he realized that Messi was their best player and he was best utilized up top because of his movement, creativity and finishing ability. Arguably, Suarez's composure in front of goal, finishing and poaching still need to be worked on but I strongly disagree that we created enough chances today. How many of them were actually clear chances? How many times did we actually have a real shooting opportunity that wasn't outside of the box? As well, crosses whipped into the area when no one is even close to the receiving end do not count as chances. And believe you me, Andy Carroll would NOT have gotten at the end of any of those because he'll still be hanging out in some other area of the field and even if he does make the run, it would be him against 4 other Stoke defenders because none of our other wingers or midfielders know how to make good supporting runs. I am strictly against pushing Suarez out to wide and bringing in any other striker that is only brought in here to score goals. UNLESS, that striker is really of such a high caliber that he has superb link up play, and has the movement to create spaces for Suarez to come in on from wide. But a striker of such goal-scoring ability, technical ability, passing ability and mobility are really hard to find and will certainly cost us upwards of 30 million quid. Only players like Falcao, Tevez, maybe Benzema can really play that role right now. Llorrente is a bit of a question mark and is still very much of a pipe dream anyways. We won't be able to get strikers of such a quality at this stage so there is no point really in talking about it. Suarez should be our false 9 and we need to build around him.

Also, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think we need another creative midfielder. My other point was that Gerrard is not a very effective creative midfielder but I do believe that Shelvey, Sahin and maybe even Assaidi can play that role for us quite effectively but my whole point all along is that we need another wide forward, not a winger, not a striker and certainly not a creative midfielder because we are not dangerous enough in the final third. Our play is breaking down far too often because of poor decisions and a lack of supporting runs. Not enough genuine chances are created. Our two other senior players, Borini and Assaidi do not look like the goods right now and Downing and Joe Cole are lost causes so Rodgers is forced in to the uncomfortable position of relying on 17 and 18 year olds to come up with the goods. Right now we are relying much too heavily on our youngsters and it isn't fair on them. We need a quality wide forward that can bring smart movement, assists and goals into the team as soon as possible. A modern wide forward...an inverted winger if you will. And there are certainly more of those in the market that we can look at and have a realistic chance of getting than say your ideal striker that is really good enough and has all the right attributes to get goals, lead the line AND fit in to our system as a whole and push Suarez out wide. I really don't see that happening and honestly don't think that is the way forward because Suarez, for me, is best when he can roam anywhere he pleases as a false 9, and I think with the right players around him, we will get it right.
Nice post
Agreed on Carroll - who STILL hasnt scored @ West Ham a team whose style of play is better suited to him

RE today and the team - I'm torn
Previous games - in the PL, Europa and Cup - the team played very very well indeed.
That did not appear to be there today (and personally I believe our 11 could have beaten Stoke's 11 regardless of their lousy tactics)

It would appear though that the coaching staff is really working on discipline - clean sheet and no yellow cards

Stil, deflated going into the international break. Time to go back to stacking the firewood.
 

ptt

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The thing that frustrates me the most this season is our inability to get more bodies in the box when we are attacking, tbh thouugh i am a everton fan so my point really isnt valid haha

Edit - no matter what happens this season just remember not to leave your lap top in mid post writing while your 18 yr old son is home from Uni cos the little shite will think its amusing to post what is posted above - my part written post was the bit about not getting men in the box
We're getting a lot more men in the box than we did last season matey :-)
 

TTorroro

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One point that I also think is rather important. If Luis Suarez can learn to do the simple thing (put the ball in the net from close range) after the virtually impossible thing (which he does repeatedly, every match), he will be the best player in the world by a country mile. He did things today that transcended mere football but as he didn't score, that's all some people see.
Ideally I'd agree but sometimes, no make it many a times, I can't see past Suarez for a player who would do the complicated bit to get the ball to him for him to do the simple bit. Therefore he tries to do the difficult bit but find no one in a simple position to pass to and so he tries a more difficult bit. often this even more difficult feat fails but sometimes it succeeds. And we all marvel in joy.

Yes he can simply pass the ball back but then again he would often find the ball back to him and left with no simple bit to do to get the ball in the box. And so the cycle continues..
 
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TheKaiser

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It really gets on my tits when people say we have no striker. We have a man leading the line who is on golden boot pace right now. He didn't score today but if he scored in every game he'd be on pace for 60+ goals.

What we need clearly is an alternative (either Borini or someone new, not the ponytail), and just like with Gerrard, he needs to be dropped when he's not getting it done. With the form he's been in, I can understand being reluctant to withdraw him, but when he tries to do everything on his own, I think that might be the time to do it. I like that he wants the responsibility, but I don't like that it means if he can't beat 8 men on his own and find the finish then no one else gets a chance. The difference between the last few weeks and today in terms of the involvement of others in the box was night and day. Today was a return to the days under Kenny where we had no attacking plan other than to give it to Suarez and wait for him to create everything.

I'm not heartened by today's performance because I was expecting us not to be bullied out of our rhythm and unfortunately we were. It's a young team and that's not surprising and it's kind of why I wanted to put out a more experienced and robust side. Credit to Suso and Raheem though as I don't think they were the worst in this regard.

Gerrard bugs me so much these days because while in the past in these situations he used to do what Suarez did but because he was a bit deeper it had more influence. Now, and particularly today, he just turns into Charlie Adam + with his overhit balls and positional indiscipline. I don't think any of our midfielders played up to the level expected so I don't fault him entirely. I was in a pub which always dilutes my focus a bit, but Nuri truly seemed to do nothing today, kind of a repeat of some of his earlier performances.

It's not a reversion into the past as the mitigating factors of the constant fouling which should have seen us up a man at some point mean that it's inappropriate to judge the progress made. This speaks more to a lack of robustness and belief that can withstand this kind of physical pressure. I have confidence that we'll understand that better for the game against Everton and for future encounters against Stoke.

Someone else said it, and I thought it at half time, we really needed someone through the middle driving the play and Sahin/Gerrard didn't do it today, and I felt like Shelvey could have been the perfect solution had he been available. Strong, physical and aggressive may have made the difference today.

Too bad there's yet another international break to take players away from the crucial work we need to do. We keep learning, keep progressing and hopefully by the time we see Reading we'll be in bullish mood.
 

Arminius

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This redefines gall. Pulis thinks something should have been called on Suarez...he neglects to mention Huth's stamp, the umpteen studs-up tackles, etc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/19864125

Pulis, go fuck yourself. If the FA starts going back to suspend players for 3 games for offences using video footage, you wouldn't have a squad until November.
 

JackleCube

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Does anyone know where you can actually get decent post-game stats anymore? The stats I'm getting from different places are hugely different

BBC shows us with 48% possesion, and 5 on target, ESPN says we have 63% possesion, but only 2 shots on target, this is madness...
 

theres always tommorrow

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Blah blah blah.....lots of discussion about this player or that. Truth is we can't win games...end of. The team are entertaining enough but lack that special ingredient - an out an out goal scorer.

Found myself today drifting back to 2006 - 2nd champions league final in as many years.we were a real handful with players like Alonso, Mascherano, Torres and Gerrard at his peak. Our "new yanks" in office and Rafa at the helm. There was hope, expectation and belief. Then it all went down hill. We lost that final and slowly died over the next 4 years as we imploded with finance and politics winning over football....

FSG are trying to make us forget who we are through youth and enthusiasm (Rodgers and the kids). Would any of those youngsters playing today have got into our 2005 CL cup winning team....I don't think so. Let's stop kidding ourselves without top class players we are going nowhere but down. We are being slowly managed towards a second class club. It's not acceptable.


It's time to sort it.
 

tamir_m

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We just need striker, I feel like Borini could have made an impact today
Suarez through the middle trying to do everything by himself isnt gonna take us to the CL

sometimes you just need someone to finish the chances off...Torres, Owen, Fowler...etc...
 

Arminius

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Would any of those youngsters playing today have got into our 2005 CL cup winning team....I don't think so. Let's stop kidding ourselves without top class players we are going nowhere but down. We are being slowly managed towards a second class club. It's not acceptable.


It's time to sort it.

Madness.

For a start, I would take Wisdom NOW over Traore, let alone 5-6 years from now. Suso and Sterling also don't strike me as that far off either Garcia or Kewell in terms of consistency. That is just the teenagers who played today. This is an incredibly young squad, and there are loads of players under 25 Rafa would have loved to have had in 2005.

I love every member of that squad, but let's not delude ourselves that that CL run in 2005 was anything short of Rafa doing it with smoke and mirrors, and still needing Gerrard at his very best.

Traore, for God's sake. He'd be on a OG hat trick most games with the backpassing this squad does.
 

TheKaiser

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Madness.

For a start, I would take Wisdom NOW over Traore, let alone 5-6 years from now. Suso and Sterling also don't strike me as that far off either Garcia or Kewell in terms of consistency. That is just the teenagers who played today. This is an incredibly young squad, and there are loads of players under 25 Rafa would have loved to have had in 2005.

I love every member of that squad, but let's not delude ourselves that that CL run in 2005 was anything short of Rafa doing it with smoke and mirrors, and still needing Gerrard at his very best.

Traore, for God's sake. He'd be on a OG hat trick most games with the backpassing this squad does.
Some people seem to be missing the point that Suso and Sterling are world class young talents, not just in the context of Liverpool, but in the context of world football. Two absolute gems who wouldn't be out of place at any club in the world (Stoke aside). Persisting with these two particularly (and with youth in general) will pay massive dividends over the years to come. And it seems to be many of the people who moan about a lack of patience among others who are most consistently crying out for quickfixes and veteran scabs. If we're looking to begin a new Liverpool epoch of success, this is the path. Whether it's under Rodgers (seems like he's the only one with the bottle to do this anyway) remains to be seen, but we have talents the likes of which we've rarely produced literally pouring out of our academy and reserve sides. Why give up on it because we could be top 10 by Christmas instead of top 4 by next year?
 

ptt

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Would any of those youngsters playing today have got into our 2005 CL cup winning team....I don't think so.
I'd have started with 10 men rather than have Smicer on the pitch, yes he scored but that was the sum total of his achievement at this club. Suso and Sterling would have started ahead of Baros and Kewell for me.......

Starting 11Substitutes
 

Mascot88

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Sorry Mascot, but Allen did nothing the whole game. His passes forward were intercepted a few times. Just because he is the sweetheart of Rodgers, doesn't mean he should be up there too. I think he looked a bit flat, even on the Thursday game. Not used to the demand on playing in Europe and then in EPL yet, I think.
Yeah, not his best game for us. But over the season so far he's looked great.

Gerrard unfortunately has not. To say he is struggling to adapt to a patient possession game would not be unfair.

The number of times today I found myself screaming "it's fucking Stoke. Why are you crossing the ball?" was unreal. Not just Gerrard but he was the main culprit.

Stoke basically forced us into a game that they were comfortable with. Again, Gerrard is not the only one to blame for that, but he was the main culprit.

And crucially as the captain he sets the tone. A number if times today he demanded the ball from a collegue and proceeded to launch it straight out of play, or to a stoke player.

I'm serious when I say I'd drop him. When Lucas is back a midfield free of Lucas, Allen, Sahin - with Suso and Shelvey in reserve just looks a lot more capable of the kind of football Rodgers wants.
 

i_still_miss_fowler

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Does anyone know where you can actually get decent post-game stats anymore? The stats I'm getting from different places are hugely different

BBC shows us with 48% possesion, and 5 on target, ESPN says we have 63% possesion, but only 2 shots on target, this is madness...
The difference is how they calculate possession. I believe ESPN use Opta which simply uses the number of passes ie Liverpool 630 passes- Stoke 370 passes = 63%/37%

Number of shots on target, are just those were the keeper had to make a save

BBC I think the actual time one team had the ball till turn over. Shot on target also include those which get blocked by defenders or knocked off course by your own player.


Whoscored is probably best place, giving you most of the OPTA numbers. FourFourTwo app is also good if you have an iphone/ipod (Think they may have Android version as well)
 

TTorroro

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Madness.

For a start, I would take Wisdom NOW over Traore, let alone 5-6 years from now. Suso and Sterling also don't strike me as that far off either Garcia or Kewell in terms of consistency. That is just the teenagers who played today. This is an incredibly young squad, and there are loads of players under 25 Rafa would have loved to have had in 2005.

I love every member of that squad, but let's not delude ourselves that that CL run in 2005 was anything short of Rafa doing it with smoke and mirrors, and still needing Gerrard at his very best.

Traore, for God's sake. He'd be on a OG hat trick most games with the backpassing this squad does.
Abit Ot - yes, djimi "Bambi-legged" traore. Such fond memories and that definitive back heel- glorious memories :D
 

Reds

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Pulis complains about suarez, and he forgets that his squad is full of thugs.
 

theres always tommorrow

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Thanks for reminding me about Traore!!...hehe I guess things could be worse. I agree we have some talent but I don't think we should let FSG off the hook - they need to support this club through investment in top management and key world class signings. Just because they got their first purchases wrong doesn't give them leave to shut up shop for a season. Rodgers needs all the help he can get!



Madness.

For a start, I would take Wisdom NOW over Traore, let alone 5-6 years from now. Suso and Sterling also don't strike me as that far off either Garcia or Kewell in terms of consistency. That is just the teenagers who played today. This is an incredibly young squad, and there are loads of players under 25 Rafa would have loved to have had in 2005.

I love every member of that squad, but let's not delude ourselves that that CL run in 2005 was anything short of Rafa doing it with smoke and mirrors, and still needing Gerrard at his very best.

Traore, for God's sake. He'd be on a OG hat trick most games with the backpassing this squad does.
 

LFCLV

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:D :D :D some off you are really silly. After the Norwich game the grass is green and the sky is blue. Now everything is doom and gloom. Same shit - fire Rodgers, SG should be stripped of captaincy, we can not score goals etc. Jesus Christ lads today was really difficult game. Butchers Pulis Stoke were kicking shit out of us just because Lee ''fucking'' Mason allowed it from the very begining. Huth should be shown straight red and Wilson should be shown 2nd yellow for two footed tackle on Wisdom. Before the game I was praying for the guys to come off the pitch on their own. After what I saw today 2 points dropped are not so bad. It could be lot lot worse. We kept 1st clean sheet of the season. No one is injured, Wisdom is made of rock. And I think that Dagger was MOTM hands down. No one even came close to him performance wise. Lets move to the next game. Analyze, work hard because we have loads to improve. And it should be like this because this season we started from scratch. Those who think that we will be firing on all cylinders right away should stay away from supporting LFC because it won't happen. Wake up. If we talk about support then Anfield crowd is full of shit. Sorry but that is the truth. Only Kop is on full voice. It looks like players need to make something magical for crowd to start supporting. It should be the other way around. Anfield singing is moral terror for opponents, but support is there only when everyting is ok. When things go wrong we start to hide like Downing and look for someone to blame. Remember what Kenny said. We are going to achieve previous heights only if we pull in one direction.
Patience lads patience
 

DeathOrGlory

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I no longer feel anything when we drop points at Anfield.

Something is wrong here.
 

D.hughes

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Wish gerrard would put the same effort in as scholes does for united! Sure there's at least a 2 year age gap there aswell! If 9th wasn't good enough last season, and 2 cup finals, what are fsg excpecting this year with a worse squad??
 

SoueysTash

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Wish gerrard would put the same effort in as scholes does for united! Sure there's at least a 2 year age gap there aswell! If 9th wasn't good enough last season, and 2 cup finals, what are fsg excpecting this year with a worse squad??
A team which will evolve to go on and do bigger and better things...our team needs more than 2 transfer windows to get up to speed - FSG & BR aren't going anywhere, he'll be given time and FSG will slowly invest. Not a quick fix unfortunately
 



ptt

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A team which will evolve to go on and do bigger and better things...our team needs more than 2 transfer windows to get up to speed - FSG & BR aren't going anywhere, he'll be given time and FSG will slowly invest. Not a quick fix unfortunately
That's a shame, half the forum will go insane waiting......
 

D.hughes

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People saying on here its going to take time and its a slow process? Ok then, why not give kenny more time than one full season? We're we ended up in 2 cup finals? Someone please explain? Did we not play exceptional football at times last season? Our ONLY problem was finding the net. So why have fsg mad so many fuking changes from top to bottom? Why? What was so bad about last season that's so good about this season so far? That we didn't have a documentary on channel 5? Showing to the world what goes on and what BR says before a game? Laughable
 

Aldini98

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Just saw suarezs dive, f ing awful. Brenny needs to have a word. Bales for spurs is equally as bad.
 

TheKaiser

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People saying on here its going to take time and its a slow process? Ok then, why not give kenny more time than one full season? We're we ended up in 2 cup finals? Someone please explain? Did we not play exceptional football at times last season? Our ONLY problem was finding the net. So why have fsg mad so many fuking changes from top to bottom? Why? What was so bad about last season that's so good about this season so far? That we didn't have a documentary on channel 5? Showing to the world what goes on and what BR says before a game? Laughable
It's now been 6 months since Kenny left. We have a new manager, it's a new season with many different players. Get. Over. It.
 

SoueysTash

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People saying on here its going to take time and its a slow process? Ok then, why not give kenny more time than one full season? We're we ended up in 2 cup finals? Someone please explain? Did we not play exceptional football at times last season? Our ONLY problem was finding the net. So why have fsg mad so many fuking changes from top to bottom? Why? What was so bad about last season that's so good about this season so far? That we didn't have a documentary on channel 5? Showing to the world what goes on and what BR says before a game? Laughable
Ugh...it's pretty clear that FSG didn't want KK as the manager, if they did he'd have stayed. No one wanted Kenny to go (or very few) but he's gone for reasons which we'll probably never know about, bottom line is that bitterness about it and constant moaning about BR and the teams performances are counter productive, the team are in transition, it's a young team that's full of promise, surely even a glass is half empty person can see that the future is bright?
 
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