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POST MATCH: Liverpool 1-0 Napoli (UCL 11/12/18 8pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 84 45.7%
  • Alexander-Arnold [off 90’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Matip

    Votes: 5 2.7%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 30 16.3%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 19 10.3%
  • Henderson

    Votes: 4 2.2%
  • Milner [off 85’]

    Votes: 4 2.2%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 23 12.5%
  • Salah [GOAL 34’]

    Votes: 12 6.5%
  • Firmino [off 78’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Keita [on 78’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Fabinho [on 85’]

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Lovren [on 90’]

    Votes: 2 1.1%

  • Total voters
    184
  • Poll closed .

Limiescouse

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It's all about getting the decision correct.
I don't entirely agree with that, or at least I think it is only right if you view it in a very narrow scope.

Reffing a game effectively is about more than a collection of decisions, it is about being in control, and, possibly even more importantly, being perceived to be in control. Players will cut you slack for getting something wrong if they otherwise trust you. If they dont trust you they will start feeling aggrieved even over "correct" decisions, and that is a positive feedback loop. So as someone who plated at a high level, and, unfortunately, many many times with refs who did not deserve to be on the same pitch as us, if you tell me we have a ref who is going to give me a yellow card for something he thought was a fair tackle after only a word or two in his ear from the lino, then that is not someone you're going to trust. Importantly, we're not talking a clear issue here - he thought a goal kick and then gave a corner on his lino's instruction. We're talking about the ref outsourcing his subjective judgement without the need for conversation.
 

Red over the water

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Mind you, still on a high after the night before. That was fantastic.

I gave Alisson MOTM for the decisive moment near the end, but VVD was imperious and Robertson was incredible. They all did well. I’m not bothered about who we draw in the next round. There’s a case to be made that the harder the game the better our performance. But on the other hand I think I’d prefer Ajax or Porto for now. Like everyone else I’m hoping somewhere along the way we get to wipe some of that smug, snide, cockiness off Ramos’s face.
 

Arminius

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According to Wiki:

As of 2018–19, the fixed amount of prize money paid to the clubs is as follows:[69]

  • Preliminary qualifying round: €230,000
  • First qualifying round: €280,000
  • Second qualifying round: €380,000
  • Third qualifying round: €480,000 (Only for clubs eliminated from the champions path, since clubs eliminated from the league path qualify directly for the UEFA Europa League group stage and therefore benefit from its distribution system.)
  • Base fee for group stage: €15,250,000
  • Group match victory: €2,700,000
  • Group match draw: €900,000
  • Round of 16: €9,500,000
  • Quarter-finals: €10,500,000
  • Semi-finals: €12,000,000
  • Losing finalist: €15,000,000
  • Winning the Final: €19,000,000

This means that at best, a club can earn €82,450,000 of prize money under this structure, not counting shares of the qualifying rounds, play-off round or the market pool.

We still have to substract the costs in logistics to play the matches , but I think it's save to say that last year's final bought us a top centerback and by the looks of it , we are maybe even better prepared to amortize the fee for our new shiny goaly this time around...
That save was worth 11.3 M Euros from the fixed, and once you figure in the market pool based bonus (impossible to calculate until all PL teams are done) of perhaps 7.5M....that was around 19M of his transfer fee recouped.

Sometime heading into the January transfer window, someone - whoever it was who really made the call on Alisson's value - is going to be sitting across a meeting table from JW Henry, and Henry is going to tell him he was absolutely right to break the goalkeeper transfer record.

Ticket revenues cover the costs of participating in the matches fairly easily, btw.
 

FGred

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This might be a hand grenade, but so be it. I did not think the REF was that bad. He had a couple of decisions that were off, but the rest of the situations most people are criticising is due to continental football being slightly different in what one penalises (example, when Milner got a free kick against, many complained, but Milners hand was slightly in the opponents face, which for many refs are enough for a foul). He was not at all out to make Liverpool lose, that is just in my opinion, silly conspiracy theories ;-)
Now, feel free to murder me :-)
I’m not sure you will feel the same if UEFA appoint this clearly biased referee in our knock out stage clash in February, that will signal clearly that they do not want us in this competition.
 

Mascot88

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I think we’d do well to remember that the refs only get to see things once.

My thought process on the Virgil card last night went as follows.

Live: YOU FUCKING BIASED CUNT!!! HE TOOK THE BALL!!!

Replay 1: Actually he did take a bit of Mertens as well. Fair enough.

Replay 2: Oooh. Actually that’s horrible. Could have been a red.

I thought the referee was poor last night. He gave Napoli a lot of very cheap fouls, but I think that is largely because Napoli and Liverpool were playing different games and the referee was more inclined to referee the former. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Liverpool highlighted free kicks by feigning contact, exaggeration and simulation like Napoli did.
 

Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
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It wasn't very good indeed. Then again, it's tough to come in for an injured player, to play at the unaccustomed right back position, to deal with that kind of intensity and scutiny for the last few minutes, when the whole team is tired, nervous and a bit under the cosh, and you are also coming back from an injury.

This isn't an excuse for Lovren btw, but it might be an explanation.

He still had to show more positional awareness on that cross, but this has never been his greatest strength anyway.
Hang on. Is Lovren being blamed for not dealing with the cross?? I could have swarn I saw VVD, Fab and Matip, all climbing over eachother to get the header and all fucking missing. Why in the fuck were there 3 players marking 1 Napoli player? If even just one of them had taken up a decent position and played in front of Napoli No.99 then Lovren would have been able to play BEHIND 99 and not get caught out. Its 100% a team game. That occasion was all about the pressure of the moment making 3 players fight for the same ball and Lovren not marking his player well. Luckily the guy in gilet jaune has tremendously sized bollocks.


So far this post-match thread has had:

1. Ref bashing
2. Lovren blaming
3. Hendo blaming ?
4. Gini blaming ?

After a win like that it still amazes me that people have time or can even be bothered to moan.

If nothing these post-match threads are consistent.
 

ILLOK

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Hang on. Is Lovren being blamed for not dealing with the cross?? I could have swarn I saw VVD, Fab and Matip, all climbing over eachother to get the header and all fucking missing.
I honestly haven't got a clue what Matip is doing there. He can clearly see the player is already marked by Fabinho and Van Dijk but vacates his position to go and challenge. It's terrible defending in all honestly and could have cost us the game.

He had a very good game otherwise but that was brain-dead defending.
 

GermanRed

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I honestly haven't got a clue what Matip is doing there. He can clearly see the player is already marked by Fabinho and Van Dijk but vacates his position to go and challenge. It's terrible defending in all honestly and could have cost us the game.

He had a very good game otherwise but that was brain-dead defending.
Maybe he was brain-dead after his third 90 minutes in the space of 7 days after being injured for so long and so often and with the shoulder injury he got yesterday + full of adrenalin and maybe overconfident because he had an almost perfect game until then.
 

ILLOK

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Maybe he was brain-dead after his third 90 minutes in the space of 7 days after being injured for so long and so often and with the shoulder injury he got yesterday + full of adrenalin and maybe overconfident because he had an almost perfect game until then.
Umm, okay. The shoulder injury was after that incident so I'm unsure as to how that was a factor?

It was a very basic error, no need for 101 excuses. I did say he had a good game otherwise, as he did against Bournemouth.
 

shachart

"You're supposed to help people that need a bit."
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Final score aside, we were pressing, getting into scoring posotions, front three working together, solid defense and Allison.
There isn't a City or Utd supporter that saw the match and didn't go "Oh Shit "..
 

Arminius

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Umm, okay. The shoulder injury was after that incident so I'm unsure as to how that was a factor?

It was a very basic error, no need for 101 excuses. I did say he had a good game otherwise, as he did against Bournemouth.
When did the shoulder injury occur? I must have missed it, did not see anything in the eternity that was another two minutes.

Regarding the defence on that play, I think it was a team-wide breakdown, a little bit of panic - Matip probably the worst culprit in the sequence because he was the one who most completely took himself out of the play.
 

Colorado Red

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What a fantastic game and performance (aside from some atrocious finishing).

I was more nervous at 1-0 up than I was at 0-0, kept worrying that we’d shut up shop too soon, let our guards down for a minute and allow Napoli to nick a goal that would put us out. In reality, by the closing minutes of the game, we should’ve been 3-4 goals to the good and out of sight. By then, whenever we went on a counterattack I was just shouting at the tv for the lads to not shoot unless it was into an open net (yep, we managed to miss those too, lookin’ at you Mane), but instead just take it to the corner flag or pass it back around and make Napoli chase, since by then 2-0 was no better than 1-0 and I couldn’t see us getting to 3-0 in the last 10 minutes.

Sure enough, that split second came in stoppage time, but Alisson’s massive save won the day. I’ll be one more to say, worth every penny.

Since the start of the year, we’ve now seen all of Lovren, Gomez, and now Matip perform like world beaters when paired w/ Virgil. Says all you need to know about Virgil’s importance to the team.

My son is a little speedster who plays CB or FB, and I just want him to watch 90 minutes of Mr. Andy Robertson every week, and learn from one of the best left backs in the world. What a story.

Bring on the Mancs, even though we now look a bit thin after all the injuries and knackered players after yesterday. Hope Matip is fit, if not, then suppose it’s Lovren to pair Virgil. Trent, even if his late injury is just a small knock, could probably use a rest, and I wonder if Klopp would start Fabinho at RB since he plays there for Brazil. Probably Keita in for Milner in midfield, and rest of the team picks itself at this point, unless Shaq slots in instead.
 

ILLOK

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When did the shoulder injury occur? I must have missed it, did not see anything in the eternity that was another two minutes.

Regarding the defence on that play, I think it was a team-wide breakdown, a little bit of panic - Matip probably the worst culprit in the sequence because he was the one who most completely took himself out of the play.
A second before the final whistle. Napoli knocked the ball long, Matip won the header as Koulibaly fouled him, Matip landing awkwardly as a result.
 

RedForever2014

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Very good performance, totally dominated them for 90% of it and dealt very well with them during the 10% of it they were making play.

Yes they had their chances, but a side of their quality always will and their wasted opportunities were no greater than the many chances we created and missed.

It would have been unjust for us to have not got the result we needed based on last night's performance, although overall we were a bit lucky to have got through after losing all three away matches with abject performances.

We'll take it of course, but must learn from it and improve our away performances in the knockouts.

I was pleased with everyone last night, it was just Mane's wastefulness that frustrated. He's very good, but does have a poor first touch at times and scuffs his shots too often.

Anyway a good few days rest now and then we go again against United.

They'll use their usual tricks, but we need to beat them for the first time in a bit (in the PL) and keep winning until we play City.
 

Magnus

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I’m not sure you will feel the same if UEFA appoint this clearly biased referee in our knock out stage clash in February, that will signal clearly that they do not want us in this competition.
It is the day after now, so while I understand well the immediate emotions after a game, I have some problems the day after, when you are suggesting that UEFA wants to fix the match. That makes no sense at all. Remember the speed we play at, remember that there is no VAR, remember that continental football penalises fouls slightly different. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that the ref was "after us", because he some how dislikes us more than Napoli. That is frankly just a conspiracy theory, and to me, it makes absolutely 0 sense. Let us instead rejoice in the result, the ref's whistle blowing had no bearing on the game ! We played an amazing game, and should have scored more, but for some mediocre finishing! Let us concentrate on that ! :-)
 

Last edited:

Limiescouse

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I honestly haven't got a clue what Matip is doing there. He can clearly see the player is already marked by Fabinho and Van Dijk but vacates his position to go and challenge. It's terrible defending in all honestly and could have cost us the game.

He had a very good game otherwise but that was brain-dead defending.
It is the Matip paradox. A player who is ordinarily very good in the air, yet often, inexplicably finds a way to duck under a cross.
 

Red over the water

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So far this post-match thread has had:

1. Ref bashing
2. Lovren blaming
3. Hendo blaming ?
4. Gini blaming ?

After a win like that it still amazes me that people have time or can even be bothered to moan.

If nothing these post-match threads are consistent.
Ooh, let me have a go, to see if we can complete the set.

Henderson - struggles to play on the turn/half turn. Early in the game he received a ball from the central defender and his positioning was too square, and we ended up losing the ball and facing a very threatening situation.

Wijnaldum - it looked to me, in the first half especially, that when he was trying to shield the ball he got his pocket picked, from Allan, more than once. It led to dangerous situations.

Don't get me wrong. It was a great win and a massive whole team effort. Alisson, VVD and Robbo were the stand out performers, but after a night like that it's not the time to stick the boot in on any of our players.

Generally speaking, I think our midfield trio will evolve as the season progresses. The phrase I've used is stardust. A trio of Henderson/Milner/Wijnaldum are all solid citizens (and there's a lot to be said for that, as it gives you a basis on which to play) but it's short of stardust. That x-factor.

We saw something of the x-factor the moment Keita arrived, early in the season, when he took the ball deep in our half and turned away from a player, leaving him for dead, then he carried it forward, looked up, and chipped a 40 yard pass over the top and into the path of our striker. (I could look it up to make sure I'm getting the team and the names correct, but hopefully on the description here everyone knows the incident I'm talking about).

It has taken a long time for Keita and Fabinho to get up to speed, but they are there or thereabouts now, and as the season progresses I expect they will begin to start more often than not.

That's not to denigrate any other midfielders, as it takes all sorts, but we spent heavily on the midfield area in the summer for a reason.
 

vjcpatriot

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Alisson made the save of the game at point blank range. That's why we paid the big bucks, to get a keeper who can help us win the tight games by the skin of our teeth.

Salah had that moment of brilliance which was all that we needed with that first goal. We had many chances afterwards but could not finish any of them. Mane looked particularly wasteful, it was a really bad night for him as he could have easily had a brace had he only finished the chances fed to him on big silver plates.

Regardless of personal stress levels, Liverpool still advances to the knockout stage. For that part I am happy, but we really need to play better if we are to advance beyond the knockout stage.
 

Red over the water

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On my naked eye I thought it was Fabinho who headed the ball to the Napoli player at the end, for their chance. He didn't get enough on it, and it sort of glanced through to the Napoli fella. I'll have to watch again, but that's what I thought happened on a first look.
 

Irishanfield

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The hairs on the back of my neck won't flatten and are still standing up,what a game that truly was,feeling fucking brilliant and confident going into the manc (the shit red mancs that is) game.
Try washing it :think:

Seriously though its mad isn't it. I woke up up this morning buzzing like a little school kid. Seems this football lark will keep us young forever
 

dockers_strike

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Messages
750
On my naked eye I thought it was Fabinho who headed the ball to the Napoli player at the end, for their chance. He didn't get enough on it, and it sort of glanced through to the Napoli fella. I'll have to watch again, but that's what I thought happened on a first look.
Nah, he didnt head it to anyone. The ball came off his head but you could say van Dijk misjudged it or Matip misjudged it etc, etc seeing as they all jumped and got nowhere near the ball. Frankly, I thought we'd got over that last minute panic in the defence but last night right at the death we looked very nervy. Thankfully, we have a keeper in Alisson who didnt and wasnt.
 



Iluvatar

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It is the Matip paradox. A player who is ordinarily very good in the air, yet often, inexplicably finds a way to duck under a cross.
Que stats to prove you wrong... Apparently he wins more headers than Virgil!
 

Iluvatar

Allez (x6)
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Hang on. Is Lovren being blamed for not dealing with the cross?? I could have swarn I saw VVD, Fab and Matip, all climbing over eachother to get the header and all fucking missing. Why in the fuck were there 3 players marking 1 Napoli player? If even just one of them had taken up a decent position and played in front of Napoli No.99 then Lovren would have been able to play BEHIND 99 and not get caught out. Its 100% a team game. That occasion was all about the pressure of the moment making 3 players fight for the same ball and Lovren not marking his player well. Luckily the guy in gilet jaune has tremendously sized bollocks.


So far this post-match thread has had:

1. Ref bashing
2. Lovren blaming
3. Hendo blaming ?
4. Gini blaming ?

After a win like that it still amazes me that people have time or can even be bothered to moan.

If nothing these post-match threads are consistent.
Well the passage of play actually starts when Lovren's first touch is to completely spanner it out for a throw under no pressure.
 

Limiescouse

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Que stats to prove you wrong... Apparently he wins more headers than Virgil!
Winning a high umber of headers would support what I said of him ordinarily being very good in the air. I don't know if Opta or anyone else compiles stats on "number of crosses inexplicably ducked under", which is what would be needed to support or argue against what I said.
 

Iluvatar

Allez (x6)
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Winning a high umber of headers would support what I said of him ordinarily being very good in the air. I don't know if Opta or anyone else compiles stats on "number of crosses inexplicably ducked under", which is what would be needed to support or argue against what I said.
I was agreeing with you fella :-)
 

Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
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Well the passage of play actually starts when Lovren's first touch is to completely spanner it out for a throw under no pressure.
Name a player that was clean with the ball last night? Robbo passed directly to a lone Napoli midfielder in CM all by himself, twice! That led to shots on goal. Haven't seen anyone mention that. The game was mistake riddled. It's shocking that anyone could single out a player worse than another.