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POST MATCH: Liverpool 1-1 Newcastle United

RedBaron

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Usually I don't reply to this type of posts, but I am curious why do you think that "we are shite" ...
Mac, I used to follow you on RAWK, then you crossed over here, then vanished only to pop up again. I don't know if it's you, but with your knowledge of LFC it probably is.
You write well, informative and reliable. You did and do, IMO lack a pre-requisite for any LFC fan at least in your writing.
I don't see passion. Loads of information, opinion but very little passion.
Why are we shite? I do not like our style of play. I like variety. This team we have is no way near as effective as a KD and SC team.
75% possession bores me to tears, but with a win at the end I could live with it. Yes, I am not a big fan of Barca so what?
We are shite, includes some of the team, a little of the management and a lot of the owners.
As to you not replying to posts like this, if you don't like them, STFU and move on.
 


Prolix

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We'll indeed have to prepare for many similar toothless performances this season.
That's what I've been saying from the beginning of the season! But every time a result follows that logic people act like they are somehow surprised or personally betrayed by the team.

Yes, we lack quality and depth of quality at the moment. So what? Rodgers has made it clear that this will be addressed in January. It is clear to everyone that it will be addressed again during the summer transfer window. And the window after that. We have what is probably the youngest/least experienced Premier League side but for some reason results like this are unexpected or unreasonable. But what we can say with a fair amount of certainty, if we're willing to look at the bigger picture, is that we. will. grow. out. of. this.

Do any of you really feel as hopeless as you did under Roy? Do any of you really feel that we are so monumentally fucked with our owners that it may as well be Hicks and Gillett again? Do any of you really feel so strongly that our youth will not improve, that intelligent purchases will not be made? Do any of you really feel like this is another sign of our decline?

If you do, I am sorry that you feel that way. I'm still excited. I'm still hopeful. Yes, the structural problems are lingering on a bit. But damn it all, we're working really fuckin' hard on it. And as long as I see that work, I won't let myself be brought down by a less than ideal result.
 

BostonMick

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Not good enough by a long shot
over-reliant on Suarez
Mid-field (all of them) looked second best for 3/4 of the game
long way to go
 

Mascot88

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I don't care if result have not been much better than Hodgeson. If people cant see the difference they are idiots.

Roy's Liverpool were a dead end of pragmatic, defensive football, played by 30 something journeymen and no hopers. Rodgers feels like the start of something massive.
 

BostonMick

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by the way - the chat room during the game (and previous ones) has been great - good blend of knowledgeable and funny commentary

And watching him lumbering around the pitch? He's hardly banging them in at West Ham is he?
Watched him play for WH yesterday - same old story. He has a remarkable knack for staying out of the box still.
 



Colin

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If you have a relook at this goal from Cabaye, it's actually rather a bad goalkeeping from Jones than anything else. It was a good shot, but definitely stoppable. I'm sorry to say this, but Jones has cost us a goal each game these last three games... not good enough I'm afraid...

And yes, it was a good second half and some nice football at display. But the fact that Shelvey didn't score his opportunities, like his team-mates, says again and always that same thing: lack of quality, especially in front of goal.
I think that's harsh on Jones.

And tbh, his "mistakes" are certainly less obvious than Pepe's have been.
 

Hope in your heart

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That's what I've been saying from the beginning of the season! But every time a result follows that logic people act like they are somehow surprised or personally betrayed by the team.

Yes, we lack quality and depth of quality at the moment. So what? Rodgers has made it clear that this will be addressed in January. It is clear to everyone that it will be addressed again during the summer transfer window. And the window after that. We have what is probably the youngest/least experienced Premier League side but for some reason results like this are unexpected or unreasonable. But what we can say with a fair amount of certainty, if we're willing to look at the bigger picture, is that we. will. grow. out. of. this.

Do any of you really feel as hopeless as you did under Roy? Do any of you really feel that we are so monumentally fucked with our owners that it may as well be Hicks and Gillett again? Do any of you really feel so strongly that our youth will not improve, that intelligent purchases will not be made? Do any of you really feel like this is another sign of our decline?

If you do, I am sorry that you feel that way. I'm still excited. I'm still hopeful. Yes, the structural problems are lingering on a bit. But damn it all, we're working really fuckin' hard on it. And as long as I see that work, I won't let myself be brought down by a less than ideal result.
I know, mate. Yet, in the polls geebo set up before the Big Crunch, many many people expected us to finish third or fourth. I was among the pessimists and predicting we wouldn't end up in a better position than last season. You obviously seem to think the same (can't remember what you voted then).

But then, how can we accept the fact Kenny got sacked, if there is no progress at all? Wouldn't it have been better to stick with him, and let him try to improve his team, instead of ripping up everything and re-starting from scratch? This question isn't intended as a provocation btw. It's a genuine question.
 

Macedonian_Red

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Completely agree with you, but isn't this precisely what I said? A lack of genuine top quality? Or should we rather say: game intelligence?

And I couldn't agree more about what you say about our midfield, that's spot on.


Edit: looking at Suarez, it struck me again today. He is a genuine world-beater with the ball at his feet, but imo, he lacks the necessary intelligence to play as a center forward. His positioning isn't good, and he often lacks the intelligence to release a ball for his team-mates at the right time, rather preferring to go all the way himself. Often, the attack breaks down as a result.

As for Gerrard, he is the shadow of the player he once was. He has never had a true football head like Alonso, but now the legs are gone...
At the moment, since we can't add top quality at least for the next 2 months, the only solution would be for Rodgers to change the way he uses our players ... A simple swap in positions for Gerrard and Sahin would bring us great benefits ... Not only because we will have a true play-maker in our midfield, in the shape of Sahin, but we would also increase our attacking threat by moving Gerrard closer to the goal ...

As for Suarez' deficiencies at the central forward position, there is some truth in that, but it becomes more exposed because of the lack of true support for him in the attack ... Put Gerrard behind him, or on the right, and add a top class left-sided wide forward who would link up well with him, and Suarez' link up play would look much better ... At the moment, Suarez is forced to link up with two inexperienced players like Sterling and Suso, and with a makeshift attacking midfielder like Sahin ...
 

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I think that's harsh on Jones.

And tbh, his "mistakes" are certainly less obvious than Pepe's have been.
Pepe hasn't had a great beginning of the season, granted. But Jones has made mistakes which cost us lately.
  • Everton scored the 2-1 because of him being unable to deal with a ball and fluffling it right into the path of the Everton striker.
  • Swansea scored an easy first goal from a corner, with Jones remaining on his line, without any move. That was way too easy for Swansea.
  • Today, he has a heavy responsibility on that goal from Cabaye. It was a shot from a narrow angle, coming in at the height of his head. Pepe would have punched that out.
 

baxter

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Uncle Woy had 12 points after 10 games in charge of Liverpool, Rodgers only has 11. Food for Thought

Gerrard was the worst Liverpool player on the pitch today- awful free kicks, stray passing etc.

Roy had the likes of Torres in his team.

We have a much worse squad now. But look at United, signing Van Persie has probably got them 10 points this season.

We just need a great striker.
 



Colin

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But then, how can we accept the fact Kenny got sacked, if there is no progress at all? Wouldn't it have been better to stick with him, and let him try to improve his team, instead of ripping up everything and re-starting from scratch? This question isn't intended as a provocation btw. It's a genuine question.
This new team is premised on a fresh young team that we will look to build on.

Last years was a mix of decent players in the twilight of their careers (Maxi, Kuyt etc) and average players that we blew a fortune on (Henderson, Downing, Carroll etc). We were getting worse.

How people can't get their heads around the whole thing is a little bit worrying IMO. Kenny spent (gross) around 100million in 18 months. What an amazing opportunity to rebuild etc. Our inability to seize that opportunity has set us back years. Why are people refusing to see this?

Kenny may or may not have turned it around. His reliance on Spearing, Henderson and Downing certainly didn't fill me with confidence but regardless of your opinion on that one, FSG made a decision 5 months ago - why are you still talking about it?

Rodgers has came in and will need time to imprint his style etc. Whether you think Kenny should have gone or not shouldn't matter at this point. Support the team ffs. We're ridiculously young into our new project. It's frustrating to say the least but we are close to being a very good side for years to come. Suso, Sterling, Allen, Lucas, Sahin (hopefully), Suarez etc aren't even close to their peaks yet. Let this side grow because i guarantee all those players will prove to be amazing (more so than already). A few additions and continued development and we'll be so much better in a years time.

I'm not one for blind patience. I didn't like what Woy was doing from day one. I got disillusioned when i seen Kenny buy CHAD and have our midfield looking like Aston Villa, but i think it's very obvious for even the most uneducated football fan to see that LFC is building, for the first time in years, in a healthy and sustainable manner on the pitch.

As i said, a few signings in January and we'll improve immensely.
 

Prolix

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I know, mate. Yet, in the polls geebo set up before the Big Crunch, many many people expected us to finish third or fourth. I was among the pessimists and predicting we wouldn't end up in a better position than last season. You obviously seem to think the same (can't remember what you voted then).

But then, how can we accept the fact Kenny got sacked, if there is no progress at all? Wouldn't it have been better to stick with him, and let him try to improve his team, instead of ripping up everything and re-starting from scratch? This question isn't intended as a provocation btw. It's a genuine question.
I still waver on that answer, and it nags at me all the time. For a long time, as many probably remember, I was fairly adamant that I would prefer that we pursue an alternative to Kenny; by the end of the season, though, I was already starting to reconsider. I stand before everyone now and admit that I probably made some of the same errors of judgement that I feel people are now making with Rodgers. Ultimately moving Kenny on was probably harsh, but at the same time I fully understand why it happened. I've made some comments in the past-- replying to doomsayers who were predicting relegation-- that I could see the silver lining even if we were to drop out of the Premier League. A very unpopular thing to say, on the surface, but I still stand by the points I made. It would be horribly, horribly traumatic... but... But it would have done more drastically what we are doing now. Starting over. A deep, all-consuming reboot and cleanse. Even while I was thinking that perhaps it'd be fair to give Kenny a chance to fix his mistakes, it did not escape me that his mistakes were perhaps more severe than people really realised. As Colin says, while no table 'progress' may be made, we're shifting from players in their twilight to players at their dawn. The wounds we were carrying from years of mismanagement were exacerbating factors on Kenny's performance. Those wounds still haven't fully healed.

I feel heartbroken for those fans who gave the absolute last shred of hope they had left to Kenny. We have been, as a fanbase, profoundly changed by the legacy of Hicks and Gillett. But those people now, I think, have absolutely no hope left to give Rodgers. It's no fault of his, and it's not really any fault of their's. But he's really up against some deep psychological damage.

There are really two ways of looking at our current situation: The first, held by many, is of a Liverpool still 'properly' belonging among the best, but on its final slide out of that group and into what Rich has described as Villapool. The second, held by me, is that we are not approaching becoming midtable: we have been one for several years. Framed in that way, I feel confident because we are arguably the most exciting midtable club around, with the most burgeoning future. I'm not trying to cling to something that's slipping away, I'm excited for its return. I hope that makes sense. I think it does.

So yeah. Being a fan of a midtable club sucks quite a bit. It's inconsistent, it's frustrating, it provides precious little in terms of immediate goals. But I for one am willing to accept that present for what I feel we're building for the future. With one man or the other, the progress seems to be being made. This is our man and it's the best we've got.
 

Colin

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Pepe hasn't had a great beginning of the season, granted. But Jones has made mistakes which cost us lately.
  • Everton scored the 2-1 because of him being unable to deal with a ball and fluffling it right into the path of the Everton striker.
  • Today, he has a heavy responsibility on that goal from Cabaye. It was a shot from a narrow angle, coming in at the height of his head. Pepe would have punched that out.
The Everton one was a bit unlucky. The clearance wasn't that bad. Pepe has did similar countless times. Not that he's the benchmark anymore, unfortunately.

As for today, technically i do agree he could have perhaps positioned himself in a more advantageous position but im not convinced Pepe would have either. Pepe has let some seriously soft shots in this calendar year.

So yeah, in case you're wondering. Yes, we are having a discussion of who's a less reliable goalkeeper between the two we have available as opposed to who's the best. A bit worrying.
 

jayrrardno8

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why is Assaidi not getting a chance ahead of Downing what manager cant see the guy isnt interested and keep giving him game time pulling out of tackles bottles it cant see a pass cant beat a player cant cross a ball.
 

haakeye

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Expected to lose today, so am pleased to get a point.
Steve G, needs using sparingly and Raheem is a real star in the making.
Did not listen to BR after the Swansea gama and won't tonight as his constant bleating is getting on my nerves.
I feel so sorry for Luis, he deserves so much better than thi crap.
Possession means FA if you cannot use it to produce results.
god doesnt he go on b.r i mean .
 



DEVGRU

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I don't care if result have not been much better than Hodgeson. If people cant see the difference they are idiots.

Roy's Liverpool were a dead end of pragmatic, defensive football, played by 30 something journeymen and no hopers. Rodgers feels like the start of something massive.
I tend to agree..I enjoy the fact we are finally giving youth a chance and this was always going to be a season of transition and a lot of patience would be needed by everyone.
 

Colin

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why is Assaidi not getting a chance ahead of Downing what manager cant see the guy isnt interested and keep giving him game time pulling out of tackles bottles it cant see a pass cant beat a player cant cross a ball.
I think BR is giving Downing a chance to either

A) Prove himself

or b

B) Prove himself to be shit.



In the event of B, sell him.
 

LeoT

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I disagree with almost everyone on the first few pages of this thread.

I thought we played well, in fact very well, dominated the game against a team that will finish in the top 5/6 this season.
We made decent chances but didn’t put them away.
I also think Newcastle’s goal was exceptional and not caused by our defensive weakness or frailty.
I think Shelvey played well when he came on, got into dangerous positions, however he should have finished them off at least twice in those last few minutes. (…I wonder if the commentators ripped into him after he missed his chance???)

Slightly off topic…
I could have watched the game with Sky commentary, however chose to watch it with Romanian commentary.
I don’t speak any Romanian, however I prefer not to hear the rubbish the biased commentators spout out all game long.
Listening to foreign commentary gives the advantage of seeing the game and hearing the name of the players who are on the ball without all the nonsense the commentators speak.

I think if I were to watch the game again with Sky commentary I would probably hear only negatives.
When I watch it on LiverpoolFC.TV tomorrow then I will hear only positives.

I have concluded that every broadcaster have their own agenda, most summarisers & commentators have an agenda too.
 

DEVGRU

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Pepe hasn't had a great beginning of the season, granted. But Jones has made mistakes which cost us lately.
  • Everton scored the 2-1 because of him being unable to deal with a ball and fluffling it right into the path of the Everton striker.
  • Swansea scored an easy first goal from a corner, with Jones remaining on his line, without any move. That was way too easy for Swansea.
  • Today, he has a heavy responsibility on that goal from Cabaye. It was a shot from a narrow angle, coming in at the height of his head. Pepe would have punched that out.
Do you speak from experince of playing as a goal keeper of some merit or are you just commenting for the sake of commenting?

It's easy to say he should have punched it here, punched it there, punched it out...but that ball was flying in at 120km per hour and he reacted as best he could by punching it..the question should be asked why nobody closed down the everton player outside the box sooner. That ball could have in most cases landed anywhere but unfortunately it landed right at the feet of an opposition player who managed to take advantage of the situation.

Swansea goal; Anyone with half a mind would have stayed on their line..did you count the number of bodies in the middle already when that ball was floated in?

Newcastle: so, the ball is at head height eh? What speed was the ball travelling when it was kicked by Cabaye? And how do you punch a ball that's gone past you at great speeds that you can barely react to?

Why do people comment when they haven't played the game at any decent levels or even in goal?
 

LeoT

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Do you speak from experince of playing as a goal keeper of some merit or are you just commenting for the sake of commenting?

It's easy to say he should have punched it here, punched it there, punched it out...but that ball was flying in at 120km per hour and he reacted as best he could by punching it..the question should be asked why nobody closed down the everton player outside the box sooner. That ball could have in most cases landed anywhere but unfortunately it landed right at the feet of an opposition player who managed to take advantage of the situation.

Swansea goal; Anyone with half a mind would have stayed on their line..did you count the number of bodies in the middle already when that ball was floated in?

Newcastle: so, the ball is at head height eh? What speed was the ball travelling when it was kicked by Cabaye? And how do you punch a ball that's gone past you at great speeds that you can barely react to?

Why do people comment when they haven't played the game at any decent levels or even in goal?
I agree with you on this one, the general rule for keepers in corners/crosses is:


"if you ain't going to get there then stay on your line".​

Also, the shot for the Newcastle goal was virtually unstoppable.
 



mogggg

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I think we'll look a lot sharper with Johnson, Kelly and Reina fully fit. Confidence in a team as a whole stems from confidence in the defence, and I thought whilst Wisdom was alright today, he's not quite there yet. Good to see him getting a chance rather than chucking Skrtel or Carra out there, but he's got a wee way to go before he's consistently playing well. Jones and Enrique put in performances which, while neither were bad (Jones made a couple of nice stops), neither provided the assurance we want out of our back four. Skrtel and Agger are a classy pairing though.

Sterling and Suso showed some excellent flashes today, though I think Sterling got frustrated and tired. I personally think the kid could do with a bit of a rest, and bring him back fresh, but perhaps we need him next week.

Suarez was the class act he's become week in week out for us. It used to frustrate me how often he got into good positions but never made anything of it, and now I find myself wondering where on earth the support is coming from. So often he wriggles his way free and then there's noone there for him to pull it back to and he's forced to take on the wrong option. We need someone coming from midfield who is going to burst into the box and pick up any loose ends from Suarez' good work. I think we'd score so many more goals if even one of our midfielders was a bit more aggressive.

I thought we largely dealt with the Newcastle attacking threats well, aside from Ben Arfa getting free for the goal. I also found it amusing that in spite of all the tiki-taka, our goal ended up coming from a speculative long ball from Enrique and a piece of individual brilliance from Suarez. Thought Allen had an unusually off day, and the midfield didn't really click today, we gave the ball away cheaply too often. Once again, patience is the buzz-word around Anfield, but I can see that things are steadily looking up.
 

lancashirelad

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We've got to stay hopeful, last night I was thinking "if we win this game we'll move up to 10th place", never thought I'd ever sink that low to even think that...
 

King Aldo

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People seem to think we are playing well ... I'm not convinced we are to be honest.

I think we played well against Utd, Man City Stoke etc but we didn't play well against Arsenal, we were dominated by Everton for long spells, dominated by Newcastle today for long spells also. I think we are playing worse now than at the start of the season, exception being Suarez.

Defensively we are a bit of a mess at the moment, mainly due to injuries it has to be said ... I would like to see Kelly back to be honest. We seem to be very easy to open up on the counter attack and Newcastle could have had a couple more today, just like we could. Better teams than Newcastle will score more of those chances.

I just think there is a bit of rose-tinted glasses at the moment. The way I see it we are dreadfully short of a couple of senior players, our youngsters are doing us proud and trying their best, they are good players who are being played ahead of their time. But none of this disguises that our overall performances are mid-table standard.

I love Stevie G and hate to see him criticised but everyone reaches their peak and passes it, its happened to Stevie, I think he should be played on the right wing or as a supporting forward for Suarez, he is making a lot of passing mistakes for the past few months and the goals have dried up a lot too in the past few seasons. That loss of form has cost us a lot of points last season and this season.

Anyway, this season is stitched up for Man Utd. Every serious game for them is being dominated by decisions in their favour, yesterday it was another red card for Arsenal and a penalty for Utd, their 12th in the EPL in 2012 ... we've had 2 by the way. I'm just looking forward to January and hopefully Ba coming in (not Walcott, no goals there and don't rate him at all)
 

mappen1977

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I thought we deserved the win. The thing that sticks out for me is that Suarez does not get the support from a central area. When we had Torres with Gerrard playing off we were devestating at times. For me Suarez relies on the wide players and all 3 central players seem to deep, only my opinion. I feel for Suarez and at the moment we need to pick up because he looks a different class to the average member of our squad, dare I say he is too good for us at present and we will be under pressure to keep such a talent if we do not start winning more. Hope that is not the case but I am really loving watching him at the min, top top player.
 

shachart

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if i will try to summerize what has been writing in this thread, and every post match thread since september , you will get the following:

1. we need a another striker. after that everything will be great.
2. it takes time for the players to learn the system. once they learn, goals would be flowing.
3. the team is simply not good enough, and if BR would get players that god has gifted with understanding of the secret ways of the BR system, we would rule europe.
4. downing and/or cole are shite.

i totaly agree with item 4. words to leave by.

yes we need another striker, badly. but since we must play only with suarez for the next 2 month ( not to mention a month before) shouldn't the manager have come up with an elaborate plan to accommodate this problem ? there are only 2 proven goals scorers in the squad suarez and gerrard. as many others commented, push gerrard forward for the love of god.

yes it takes time to master a new system, and you can expect that against good sides, the system wil fall apart, but after 3 month and over 15 matchs, yo can expect that against weaker sides you will start seeing the fruits of the system.

i must agree that we have seen a more talented squad even in recent years, but we keep losing and drawing against teams that are much less talented than us. if the players cant play in a certain system, than it is the managers job to find a system that accomodates the strength of the players.

BR seems to be a very talented manager, but it is starting to look like he is over inlove with his system and 4-3-3 formation, that he is unwilling to adapt and make changes. this team is strong and talented enough to be winning games. i am not saying top 4, but this is way below the players capabilities. we are not a mid table team, we are just playing like one.
 



Hope in your heart

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(...)

Why do people comment when they haven't played the game at any decent levels or even in goal?
So, you're basically telling me that I'm talking out of my arse, right?



You're probably right about that... lol
 

FCLIVERPOOL

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I did not understand the following:

Why take Suso off when he was playing better than Sahin. Would it not have been better to take Sahin off?
When they list Collo why dis we nit go mire offensive? Why did we not go to a back 3 maybe 4 midfield and send Gerrard upfront with Sterling & Suarez?
Why do we keep slowing the game down and stopping the ball? Surely the idea is to keep the ball moving, even if you pass to one another a few times. Keep the ball moving and fir players to keep looking for space.
Finally should Pacheco not be given a chance when we are short of a decent squad. Reckon he would be a better choice than Henderson AND Downing.
 

T.C.B

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I agree with you on this one, the general rule for keepers in corners/crosses is:


"if you ain't going to get there then stay on your line".​

Also, the shot for the Newcastle goal was virtually unstoppable.
Im in agreement that he couldnt have done much for todays goal. A top top keeper may have faster reactions and been able to get a hand on it but even thats stretching it. Overall for someone who was 3rd choice up until recently hes done ok. No worse than Pepe had been donig at least.
 

REDSkins

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I think we'll look a lot sharper with Johnson, Kelly and Reina fully fit.
We were really missing Glen today, eh? Sterling and Suso were far too wide a lot of the time and having Glen on the overlap or coming inside would have really helped. We basically had no attacking fullbacks today. Wisdom is a CB and Enrique, to me, is more of a defensive wingback. He has all the tools going forward but his execution is poor far too often. Him and Downing on the same flank is like a comedy show. I hate saying that because I genuinely enjoy watching Jose. Love his power pace and ball control but wish he could be sharper in the final third. Will he ever be? Fingers crossed for Robinson

We need someone coming from midfield who is going to burst into the box and pick up any loose ends from Suarez' good work. I think we'd score so many more goals if even one of our midfielders was a bit more aggressive.
Same problem as last season and I think it's due to the absence of the same Lucas Leiva. Allen needs Sahin or Gerrard to help him and the comfort levels between them don't look quite there yet. Sahin always bombs in for the first 10 mins of games and then tends to stay deeper. Sahin's not exactly a fast runner...and his work rate defensively hasn't really impressed me thus far. Hoping it's just fitness. But neither Nuri nor Stevie looked particularly sharp today. Wish I was actually AT the game so I could see what's happening off the TV screen though!! So hard to really know the full story.
 

DEVGRU

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I thought we played very well in the 2nd half..but we just had nobody in the 10 yard box and bar the long range shots from outside the box, we just couldn't do very much otherwise and Newcastle contained us well. Suarez did very very wll to score that goal. Absolutely sublime control and finish.

Goal of the week for me.