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POST MATCH: Liverpool 1-3 Swansea (League Cup)

Macedonian_Red

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I kinda miss Bellamy and Maxi, heck even Kuyt.
We can't really blame Rodgers for selling/releasing them ... He was told to lower the wage bill, so the experienced internationals on relatively high wages were always the first to go ... It speaks of the true level of ambition at LFC at the moment ...
 


i_still_miss_fowler

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Perhaps the wrong person to say no one complained when Adam left :p

There was a few very concerned voices saying that letting these players leave would hurt us come the winter. This was the reason I gave why I thought we would finish 8th (which now appears an ever increasing reality compared to many who had CL ambitions)

Not to mention how TIA went into melt down on the news that we let Carroll go, without a replacement !

It does not matter that the other 3 were at the end of their career, Bellamy/Kuyt/Maxi were all professionals and I am sure could have been convinced to stay (Kuyt said he woundnt make up his mind till he had spoken to Rodgers). Given only Everton have a smaller registered squad than us in the league (we have an extra keeper) I am sure we could have found space for them and to play youngsters. (we have European football as well)
 

WrinkledMind

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For me it was the release of all 3 of Bellamy, Kuyt and Maxi for 1m total, replaced by a youth team player, Borini and a knacked Joe Cole

let them go by all means, but letting them go to not be properly replaced...that was foolish. carroll should only have been loaned if a replacement was signed, they had 3 months to do that, it was just crap. no excuses for it

never that bothered by Adam and Spearing going, we had brought in midfield reinforcements, but up top was where the strategy went quite obviously tits up, and will get considerably worse if Suarez does something to himself or someone else
Maxi is the bemusing one for me.
Kuyt wanted to moved and wasn't the same.Bellamy clearly has huge personal problems as we now know(after Speed's death) and wanted to be around his family.
But Maxi, why?He was more than decent and had1-2 years in him.
He would have also been a good mentor to the likes of Suso, Pacheco & Sterling and he could have been a more than handy player.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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For me it was the release of all 3 of Bellamy, Kuyt and Maxi for 1m total, replaced by a youth team player, Borini and a knacked Joe Cole

let them go by all means, but letting them go to not be properly replaced...that was foolish. carroll should only have been loaned if a replacement was signed, they had 3 months to do that, it was just crap. no excuses for it

never that bothered by Adam and Spearing going, we had brought in midfield reinforcements, but up top was where the strategy went quite obviously tits up, and will get considerably worse if Suarez does something to himself or someone else
Assaidi?
 



RichLFC

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ah yes, a 3m bloke on dirt cheap wages, who incidentally has barely featured in the league...

we left it way short and have to be frank, quite a few saw a balls up coming from quite a distance off

be nice to go through a window without self harming ourselves and actually getting players who can change the clubs fortunes almost from the off. but it hasnt happened for years
 

Macedonian_Red

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Well, Brendan is basically saying that the next two transfer windows will be when he has had the chance to bring in the players to build a side that he wants. Will be intriguing to see who he brings in, hopefully they will be class players and i hope FSG back him so he can bring in his first choices. Have a feeling we will need to have alot of patience before we start to play the way he wants.
And why exactly he wasn't allowed to do that this summer, especially since a large number of senior players have left the club? A poor PR spin ...
 

SirBillShankly

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And why exactly he wasn't allowed to do that this summer, especially since a large number of senior players have left the club? A poor PR spin ...
Maybe the trust and funds given to Commoli and Kenny and the way it was misused is the major reason why Brendan didn't get similar backing?

Oh, and you didn't answer my previous question.
 



RedSeven

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Quite right. In particular I remember the howls of dismay as fan favourites Adam and Spearing were released. A very black day for the club, possibly even worse than when when Alonso went.

I'll never forget how we had to talk Rich off that ledge. Adam, I believe, was his Idol.

Seriously, three of those players at the end of their careers wanted out. The other three were gash.

We can moan about squad depth all we like, but I'd still rather give chances to youngsters who at least can get better.
We lost to a side who were better than us on the night.As you said they have had continuity over the past few years but we are still trying to come to terms with the style BR is trying to implement.We also have better players than swansea but we don't have enough better players than city,arsenal,chelsea, utd and spurs to suggest that once we are familiar with the system we will be frightening to these teams.We still need to add a few top quality players.

Charlie and Jay were not big losses as such but they did add a quality to our squad depth that cannot be replaced by young inexperienced kids,or cole and downing.In saying that,this is not really where our problems lie.We could have afforded to allow these 2 to leave if we had of improved the team/squad in other areas.

The 3 that wanted out should have been replaced with players of some experience and with the ability to get us goals,not just with kids.A big problem(the main 1 imo) last season was the lack of goals and 5 of the 6 mentioned are players who are capable of scoring goals.They may not have got many last year but Suarez was the only player ahead of those 5 in goals scored for us last season and we replaced them with a 17 and 18 yr old with no experience and a 21 year old with very,very little experience.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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ah yes, a 3m bloke on dirt cheap wages, who incidentally has barely featured in the league...
Arriving mid-fast no doubt set his fitness back a fair bit, but he's now starting to get appearances and I'm sure will have a big part to play in the remainder of the season. I'm confident that come May people will be saying what a bargain we got there, rather than using him as yet another stick to beat Rodgers with.

What he's shown show far has been very encouraging indeed. If it wasn't for Sterling, I'd say he shows the promise of being the best wide player we've had in the team for a long time.

yeah but not to the extent it kills the site !
Give it time...
 

lfc.eddie

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Maybe the trust and funds given to Commoli and Kenny and the way it was misused is the major reason why Brendan didn't get similar backing?

Oh, and you didn't answer my previous question.
If that is the real reason, I fear we will never be able to find another manager. Having to come in as the man the board picked and not giving him the resources to achieve the goals the club set. That's like taking a Eunuch to a whorehouse and tell him he can screw whoever he wants....
 



SirBillShankly

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If that is the real reason, I fear we will never be able to find another manager. Having to come in as the man the board picked and not giving him the resources to achieve the goals the club set. That's like taking a Eunuch to a whorehouse and tell him he can screw whoever he wants....
Haha Eddie, you make me lol sometimes.

Hopefully Brendan will be allowed to spend big on a striker in January but i'm starting to have big doubts. FSG really need to open their pursestrings in a major way again soon, that's if they want Champions League football any time soon. Hopefully we are lining up some big deals right as we speak.
 

RichLFC

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Arriving mid-fast no doubt set his fitness back a fair bit, but he's now starting to get appearances and I'm sure will have a big part to play in the remainder of the season. I'm confident that come May people will be saying what a bargain we got there, rather than using him as yet another stick to beat Rodgers with.

What he's shown show far has been very encouraging indeed. If it wasn't for Sterling, I'd say he shows the promise of being the best wide player we've had in the team for a long time.



Give it time...
Dunno really, I think hes an interesting sort of player, at a sort of Mark Waltersy kind of level. Not sure about how much end product he has though and at 24 while young enough to improve, I wonder how high his ceiling actually is. You do kinda get what you pay for a bit, especially with attacking players, with defenders its easier to climb the ladder as a cheap signing in to an indispensable team member

I think though the likes of Assaidi can do a job at relatively little outlay, if we had serious designs of improving, we maybe needed more than a couple of cheap unproven additions and a youth team player to replace the experience and goals we did lose from the others, even if they were a little past their best. Rather half baked IMO, and yes, pretty cheap, when we need a bit more 'oomph'

Am of the 'people who can make a sustained difference' sort rather than the 'at least we wont lose money/make a small profit when we sell on' mindset. I wonder whether those running the club though think that way though......
 

Quagmire81

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We can't really blame Rodgers for selling/releasing them ... He was told to lower the wage bill, so the experienced internationals on relatively high wages were always the first to go ... It speaks of the true level of ambition at LFC at the moment ...
Only one thing is in conflict with that stement, the new players we got in ain't working for free, and two of them cost us over 10mill each! So how did we save money from releasing the older ones :huh:

Two thing now I think about it, massive payrise for three others, well deserved mind you but I don't think we lowered the wage budget that much overall. If only we could terminate Cole contract.
 

shachart

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They have started to rebuild from the scratch ... It is not like Rodgers and FSG are actually hiding it ...

http://www.independe...ol-7936378.html
BR didn't start from scatch. he got a team with one of the better defences in the league ( reina, kelly, skrtel, agger, johnson plus decent backups ), one of the PL best midfielders in gerrard, a great forward in Suarez, it was BR decision to release 6 senior players, who were regulars last season ( maxi, kuyt, spearing, bellamy, adam and carroll ) and replace them with borini, allen and sahin. out 6 in 3. it was a calculated decision to let the kids run the show this season, not bad luck.
LFC doesn't have a thin cadre because of some horrific injury list, but because this is the cadre BR wanted.

after over 15 games, does anybody still think that if dempsy would have signed, things would be so differant ?

we need a DM, allmost everybody agrees. spearing was loaned out AFTER lucas got injured again. why was he loaned out? why didn't BR bring a replacement ( he only wanted dempsy, there was no negotiations with other players for that spot ).

by the way, it is one thing to give young players a chance. it is another thing to let them drown.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Dunno really, I think hes an interesting sort of player, at a sort of Mark Waltersy kind of level. Not sure about how much end product he has though and at 24 while young enough to improve, I wonder how high his ceiling actually is. You do kinda get what you pay for a bit, especially with attacking players, with defenders its easier to climb the ladder as a cheap signing in to an indispensable team member

I think though the likes of Assaidi can do a job at relatively little outlay, if we had serious designs of improving, we maybe needed more than a couple of cheap unproven additions and a youth team player to replace the experience and goals we did lose from the others, even if they were a little past their best. Rather half baked IMO, and yes, pretty cheap, when we need a bit more 'oomph'
I agree we need a quality signing up front - I don't even mind if they don't arrive as a 'big name', as long as they have the quality to hit the back of the net for us on a regular basis (ie a Papa Cisse type signing, rather than a Falcao type signing).

Wasn't Assaidi at the end of his contract, or something? There were special circumstances that made him as cheap as he was - I'm actually pretty happy we're now a club who takes advantage of that sort of situation - getting more bang for our buck - rather than watch others bag the bargains and spend nearly 10 times as much on the likes of Stewart Downing.

We need reliable squad players as well as marquee signings, and if we can get more value in that market (ie £2m Assaidi not £20m Downing), while continuing to promote youth to fill out the squad, it will make more money available for one or two top-class signings we need to push on.
 



RedSeven

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I agree we need a quality signing up front - I don't even mind if they don't arrive as a 'big name', as long as they have the quality to hit the back of the net for us on a regular basis (ie a Papa Cisse type signing, rather than a Falcao type signing).

Wasn't Assaidi at the end of his contract, or something? There were special circumstances that made him as cheap as he was - I'm actually pretty happy we're now a club who takes advantage of that sort of situation - getting more bang for our buck - rather than watch others bag the bargains and spend nearly 10 times as much on the likes of Stewart Downing.

We need reliable squad players as well as marquee signings, and if we can get more value in that market (ie £2m Assaidi not £20m Downing), while continuing to promote youth to fill out the squad, it will make more money available for one or two top-class signings we need to push on.
Ajax had agreed a fee for assaidi of about the 3mp mark and it seems we nipped in before everything got signed.
 

RichLFC

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I agree we need a quality signing up front - I don't even mind if they don't arrive as a 'big name', as long as they have the quality to hit the back of the net for us on a regular basis (ie a Papa Cisse type signing, rather than a Falcao type signing).

Wasn't Assaidi at the end of his contract, or something? There were special circumstances that made him as cheap as he was - I'm actually pretty happy we're now a club who takes advantage of that sort of situation - getting more bang for our buck - rather than watch others bag the bargains and spend nearly 10 times as much on the likes of Stewart Downing.

We need reliable squad players as well as marquee signings, and if we can get more value in that market (ie £2m Assaidi not £20m Downing), while continuing to promote youth to fill out the squad, it will make more money available for one or two top-class signings we need to push on.

Am actually not against punts like these as a rule, at the right age and all. The problem comes when firstly they get hyped too much [we tend to see decent as outstanding or bog average as decent, or poor players as 'good squad players' etc] or due to injury and lack of other options get exposed a bit as maybe not quite up to it or not to be relied on too heavily. its like a balancing act. One we often seem to get wrong

I think in some ways Rodgers has been wise to bleed him in, but in other ways, does he really want to be relying on Sterling and Suso so much, both big talents yes but maybe we ened someone more experienced and proven to help them along. And thats just the wide areas, up front our problems are very obvious and have been for ages, so no real excuse for not doing a bit more there really
 

starshadow

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My coffee tastes rather bitter this morning,

We get destroyed by a side who last year came up in the playoffs, we nicked their manager and their best player yet they hammer us at home.

Hard to watch, and ever more the realization that we are indeed middle table ( or lower ) side is starting to set in. :crybaby2:
 

Macedonian_Red

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Only one thing is in conflict with that stement, the new players we got in ain't working for free, and two of them cost us over 10mill each! So how did we save money from releasing the older ones :huh:

Two thing now I think about it, massive payrise for three others, well deserved mind you but I don't think we lowered the wage budget that much overall. If only we could terminate Cole contract.
Allen is on 45,000 per week, Borini is on 30,000 per week and Assaidi is on 20,000 per week ... Kuyt, Maxi and Bellamy were on much higher wages ... It is true that we have used some of the saved wages to give improved contracts to the likes of Suarez, Agger, Shelvey and Suso, but the amount of saved wages was much higher than the increases we have given, since we are also not paying the wages of Carroll, Adam, Spearing, Eccleston and Darby ...
 

Macedonian_Red

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BR didn't start from scatch. he got a team with one of the better defences in the league ( reina, kelly, skrtel, agger, johnson plus decent backups ), one of the PL best midfielders in gerrard, a great forward in Suarez, it was BR decision to release 6 senior players, who were regulars last season ( maxi, kuyt, spearing, bellamy, adam and carroll ) and replace them with borini, allen and sahin. out 6 in 3. it was a calculated decision to let the kids run the show this season, not bad luck.
LFC doesn't have a thin cadre because of some horrific injury list, but because this is the cadre BR wanted.

after over 15 games, does anybody still think that if dempsy would have signed, things would be so differant ?

we need a DM, allmost everybody agrees. spearing was loaned out AFTER lucas got injured again. why was he loaned out? why didn't BR bring a replacement ( he only wanted dempsy, there was no negotiations with other players for that spot ).

by the way, it is one thing to give young players a chance. it is another thing to let them drown.
No, it wasn't ... Rodgers isn't stupid ...
 



RedBaron

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Most will probably disagree with me but putting the blame on the players always seems to easy.

Who bought the players - The club.
Who pays the players wages - The club.
Who picks the team - The manager
Who picks the formation - The manager
Who trains the team- The manager
Who has the power to get rid of the players - The club
Who can buy the right players for the manager - The club

The players do what they are told on the pitch, how to do it and get paid. If they are not the right players it's not their fault.
As a manager you do the best with what you have, hence the fact that lots of kids are getting a chance, what we have in the first team is in the majority not good enough.

Poor tactical decisions, underestimating the opposotion and living in the past may be down to the manager.
However, the only way to stop us slipping into the tomes of history is for the owners, to make a simple choice.

Do they want to invest the millions required in order to make us great agin, within living memory or not?
If FSG are not willing to put the money in and buy the right players now, so that the youngsters can learn from the people who know how to play BR's way every day then sell up and concentrate on baseball where the statistics are more important than the result.

Watching us is like seeing a thoroughbread horse with a badly broken leg, it needs putting out of it's misery.
 

SoueysTash

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I really can't believe the reaction - it was a League Cup fixture, our B team against their A team. Yes we put Suarez & Gerrard on at half time - we don't have the squad to play to win every competition. Pretty simple stuff, I'd expect us to beat Swansea at home in a league fixture.
 

lfc.eddie

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I really can't believe the reaction - it was a League Cup fixture, our B team against their A team. Yes we put Suarez & Gerrard on at half time - we don't have the squad to play to win every competition. Pretty simple stuff, I'd expect us to beat Swansea at home in a league fixture.
Back in the days our B team could take on the likes of Swansea. That's the gripe of most people, I guess.....
 

brush85

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Back in the days our B team could take on the likes of Swansea. That's the gripe of most people, I guess.....
It is somewhat understandable because we all wish that is was still the case. But ultimately, where we are as a football club, we cant be surprised by last night. Which isnt to say that we should accept it but when we have a new manager for the 3rd time in 3 years and a hair thin squad with very few ready made attacking options....games like last night and others so far this season, will happen.


For me, the goal is to be at mid table by the January window and then hopefully we will have some fresh blood come in to give us a push for the Europa League and the FA Cup in the 2nd half of the season.
Those players ( fingers crossed that the Manager will be allowed to make moves ), along with lucas coming back to fitness would make a massive difference.