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Post match: Liverpool 2 Sunderland 1

stip80

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CJ_LFC said:
I'd start Raheem against Spurs. Raheem has more pace than Coutinho and Spurs are awfully slow.
slufsar said:
I think the issue we had in the last 30 minutes were that Sunderland pushed on with more players in attack, while we had two strikers on the pitch who hardly ever did any defending. In addition, Coutinho started to get really lazy around that same period. It was a fairly obvious issue. We cant be playing like that against Spurs. We'll need more defensive contribution from our strikers then
I think Coutinho has become a case of Juan Mata part2. Player with brilliant skill (esp. those inch-perfect thru passes), but a little weak and slow to move back or press when defending.

He is good when we face lower-placed league who rather sit back, parking the bus behind the ball when defending, coz he is brilliant passer and may find cut open their defense with brilliant pass. Sterling pace is useless against these teams.

However, when we face stronger team who also have strong ball possession and we need to press them hard, fielding Coutinho feels like our midfield is rather open and we cannot close the gap quickly. Sterling pace and determination will help in closing opposition in this scenario (and instead of diamond, i think 4-3-3 would work better, as we packed center midfield with 3 and the forward to close the flank and when we counter we have 3 very pacy forward to attack them on the break).

Similarly, SG has recently been a revelation in his new role, where ppl said he has taken pirloesque role in the team and BR suddenly has no room for Lucas who prior is one of the first name on the sheet. I think this is only because of his status as club legend and captain, his amazing quarterback passing skill and deadball shooting accuracy. Other than that, Lucas seems to me still a better pure DM player. His reading of the flow of the game to break opposition play when they are on the counter or covering our wingbacks is still unrivaled, even by gerrard. He is also quicker than Gerrard in defending.

However, when we face team of lower position who defends behind the ball, it is like we have one player idle not used that much which function can be covered by Gerrard (who is probably like 85-90% of him in pure DM position), whereas fielding Gerrard is like having Lucas who can pass, take freekick and penalty, and also massive captain presence.

On the other hand, if we face stronger team, yes our attacking midfield is much stronger, but on fast counter/break against player like Hazard, Podolsky, etc, Gerrard may not have enough pace and pure DM skill and reading (he still helps attacking from time to time) to be stationed in the DM position. This he covered by late tackle from time to time (thus the yellow accumulation), but sometime lead to conceding. If we want Lucas, then we usually sacrifice Allen so SG can fill that position, thus having less young drive/determination in one of the midfield.

I just hope BR see this and rotate them effectively depending on who we face, becoz I feel that BR seems to have the tendency stay with his latest tweak when it worked previously despite who the next opposition team and later when it didnt work, tweak again use it again regardless of the opposition until it didnt work again (remember the switch from 4-4-2, later to 4-2-3-1, later to 3-4-1-2, later to 4-3-3, and now the 4-4-2 diamond).
 

stip80

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OhYaBeauty said:
Nah, you're out of it. You were out of it the second Gibbs got sent off against Chelsea. Look at it this way, here's how many points the top four have, and how many they have to play for:

Chelsea: 69+21=90
Liverpool: 68+21=89
City: 66+27=94
Arsenal: 63+21=84

So even if you were to beat City, it'd end up looking like:

Chelsea: 90
Liverpool:89
City: 91
Arsenal: 84

It's all well and good to be optimistic, but to think it's possible for those three clubs to drop five-seven points each, over the course of seven games is pretty unrealistic at this point in time. That's essentially expecting City, Chelsea, and Liverpool to each lose one or two games and draw one game in addition to you beating City this weekend. Not gonna happen.
lfc.eddie said:
Giving them the chance to close the gap and put unnecessary pressure on us? No chance. I would rather Arsenal lose or at best draw.

Set piece has always been an issue for us from time to time, and we know we are quite prone to concede. Let's just hope we score more goals than just 2.

We now have 2 strikers with 20 league goals to their name. Crazy.....
redandwhite3 said:
this thread about sunderland game so i try to stick to that. well done on the win and kind of wins you need to stay in title hunts.

city could only get 90 if we beat them on saturday .
You make fair points but it is hard but it is possible for us still to win title if we win rest of games to get to 84 points. we could still catch you and chelsea but city will be harder with their games in hand. we not favourites and still be long shot even if we win but we keep ourselves in it if we win on saturday. .
chelsea vs you could result in both teams dropping points and city having to go to everton still and you and chelsea having to go to swansea away still give us a shot. plus you and spurs can take points of each other

look its a long shot though but i won,t give up untill saturday at least.
At the moment, the title is city's to lose. If we can win all the remaining game (including against chelsea and city), we STILL need city to at least draw one of their remaining games. That would take 5pts (2 from one draw and 3 from lfc beating city) out of 4-point difference of max available points for lfc and city. thats for city, whereas chelsea is not in their hand anymore, it depends on the result of their visit to anfield, assuming lfc and chelsea both win all their remaining games each.
 

jimbo

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can we set up pre-spurs thread ? been on here for 5 years and still dont know how to do it
 

starshadow

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Jesus christ my local pub will be installing defibrillators after last night!!
 

Arminius

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Ended up being the game I was terrified it would be in my visions of 08/09, credit to Sunderland for playing a strong defence and keeping at it. I'd really like a few more with quick goals and comfortable leads, but getting a scare or two out of the way is good for focus. Top 4 is all but secure now, it is really just a matter of mathematical progression (this simulator added 0.6% to our chances, up to 99.4%, with an 8 point lead now), which makes the rest of the season a knockout tournament for the title and 3rd place a consolation prize. A reminder of how thin the margins can be is useful.

I thought the crowd last night was intermittently terrible, though for understandable reasons. Absolutely brilliant in the pre-game and at the start, but good grief we are a nervy bunch. Ideally the support will take a lesson away as well, and be ready to lift the side rather than react with it.
 

kingcymru

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I think the nervy last 15 minutes told me that the players ARE looking at the top spot. They didn't want to drop any points and nerves got the better of them. The normal game and swagger evaporated. That is not disrespecting Ki who made a significant impact when he came on.

If the players were only looking at 4th spot then I don't believe they would have been so spooked when Sunderland scored. We came out with three points and I hope Brendan can calm them down and get there mind focussed for the Spurs game. Maybe a valuable lesson learned with no damage.
 

Dublin_Kopite

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Travelling back to Dublin via Birmingham after an exciting and exhausting night of football. I had a feeling this was going to be a very special night and the Anfield road welcoming of the coach was something very special, intense and an atmosphere that only Liverpool football club could conjure up. We arrived at 5:50 and already there were hundreds of fans lined up either side of the route the coach was going to take. Plenty of fantastic banners on show and a sense of pride that the fans were playing their parts in this amazing adventure. A friend of mine who doesn't get to many games anymore was dumb founded by the sheer pride and confidence he could feel amongst the fans which has been missing for a long time.


As the coach approached the the flags and banners were held aloft and a chorus of 'we are Liverpool..' broke As out. As the coach snaked past slowly and carefully Pryos were set off engulfing the back of the coach with a red haze like a mytical god edging itself to it's throne. As the coach broke past the last remaining fans a procession formed behind the coach with the sound of 'we're gonna win the league' reverberating off the old abandoned houses. If there is such a thing of emotion being embedded into stone then another special layer of passion was imprinted in these long standing structures around Anfield.


The game itself was an anti climax with Sunderland trying to smoother Liverpools creativity. In other years we may have struggled and started going more direct but under rodgers we remained calm and seen out an overall comfortable win albeit nerves last 10 mins.

7 on the bounce, 7 to go, still in with a chance of the title. Dreamland!
 

Bobbinho

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^^^

That build up to the game must have been an amazing experience, the pics posted on here last night & the Vid pre match were unbelievable....

Well in DK,. Great post!
 

DeathOrGlory

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I'm thinking that it's not that our defence is so terrible, it's that our relentless starts leave us really buggered at the end. A tired body can't make good decisions like a fresh one can.

Any of you stat geeks have a stat on how many we concede in the final 25 mins compared to the rest of the game?
 

Chewbazza

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Biggest plus point for me was DS getting his 20th of the season.

Can anyone tell me when we last had TWO strikers score 20 or more in one season?
 

Red Armada

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Fatigue is starting to set in, at least that's my impression of yesterday's game. We lacked fluidity and sharpness throughout the match, even during our best period the first 20 to 25 minutes of the second half. Rodgers could have helped with that with a slightly altered first eleven or with substitutions but he mysteriously used only one even when we were struggling towards the end. Sunderland's setup and tactics also contributed to this as did the diamond but for me the overriding factor was our lack of freshness from the start.

Now considering that this was a midweek game and that we've embarked on this run using the same 12-13 players give or take, it's not unreasonable for the team to experience some sort of fatigue. However with Tottenham just 3 days away we will have to be far better in order to win. Hopefully Rodgers has an ace or two up his sleeve.
 

Arminius

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Chewbazza said:
Biggest plus point for me was DS getting his 20th of the season.

Can anyone tell me when we last had TWO strikers score 20 or more in one season?
Gerrard and Torres did it, but strikers that would be Collymore and Fowler in 1996
 

koptician

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Chewbazza said:
Biggest plus point for me was DS getting his 20th of the season.

Can anyone tell me when we last had TWO strikers score 20 or more in one season?
Ian St John and Roger Hunt, that's 50 years ago! And yes, we won the league
 

Arminius

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koptician said:
Ian St John and Roger Hunt, that's 50 years ago! And yes, we won the league
You are missing a couple, Fowler and Rush were both over 20 in 1994, Walsh/Rush in 1985, Dalglish/Rush 1982, Johnson/Dalglish 1980 and 1979.
 

All Day

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Thought it was going to be a tricky game as soon as I saw their formation. I have a feeling we will see more and more of that from the non- title contenders this year. I doubt Spurs will go that route since it doesn't seem to be in their nature to play that way.

I am glad we won and actually this kind of struggle might serve the lads well as the season progresses. Kind of a boot up their ass to remind them that points aren't given to them. If we want to be considered title contenders we need to keep fighting against every opponent. If we win our games against Spurs, City, and Chelsea but draw against the likes of Sunderland or West Ham we aren't going to be in it at the end.

I was really surprised that BR didn't make any more changes at the end. You could tell that some of the boys were tired and Ki and Johnson were fresh and giving us problems. I really thought that the last 20 minutes called for Lucas to come in and settle things down in the middle. Just hope it doesn't bite us in the ass on Sunday with the boys being too tired.

Either way, 3 points, job done. On to the next one!
 

EdWood

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Last night was the epitome of the ugly win. We'll have to raise our game against the spuds on Sunday, but give the lads credit, they nearly always acquit themselves well against the stronger teams. I think that we should go 4-3-3 and see how that goes. We seem more balanced with Sterling in the line up. Reverting to the Diamond is always an option if things don't pan out.

Anyone else feel that opposing teams deliberately try to engineer corners for themselves, given that we must be the worst defenders of corners in Premiership history? :rolleyes:
 

fergieman

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I thought the game was crying out for Lucas , especially when Sunderland send on Ki and Johnson. They were getting behind between our midfield and back 4 very easily. I'm surprised he wasn't rolled out.
 

koptician

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Arminius said:
You are missing a couple, Fowler and Rush were both over 20 in 1994, Walsh/Rush in 1985, Dalglish/Rush 1982, Johnson/Dalglish 1980 and 1979.
Oh sorry, I thought league only
 

lfc.eddie

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liverpool_singh said:
Why would you want Man City to win? This is probably the hardest game Man City have left in their fixture list besides us. Even if we beat Man City at Anfield we still NEED them to drop at least 2 more points to win the title. I would be ecstatic with an Arsenal win/draw.
Because I don't think winning the league is realistic, and having a team too close to us breathing down our neck is going to be difficult for us to cope. Having a bit more breathing space between us and the next team would give us more chance of going out and push forward rather than worried and look over our shoulder. We act as if Chelsea is not above us with a point up, nor are we acting that they will be coming to Anfield to make a statement of intent. These two teams in blue aren't Arsenal or Spurs, they have the defence to cover the hole and the fire power to hurt our weak defence, with far stronger midfield. So let's not get ahead of ourselves because our rival right now are those who aim to be in Champs League.
 

darren kelly

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If Chelsea draw and so do City on Sat we play Sunday so it would give us a lift and more belief.
I think we are better than Spurs so we have to show it now at home.
 
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lfc.eddie said:
Because I don't think winning the league is realistic, and having a team too close to us breathing down our neck is going to be difficult for us to cope. Having a bit more breathing space between us and the next team would give us more chance of going out and push forward rather than worried and look over our shoulder. We act as if Chelsea is not above us with a point up, nor are we acting that they will be coming to Anfield to make a statement of intent. These two teams in blue aren't Arsenal or Spurs, they have the defence to cover the hole and the fire power to hurt our weak defence, with far stronger midfield. So let's not get ahead of ourselves because our rival right now are those who aim to be in Champs League.
It doesn't really matter though if Arsenal are breathing down our necks because 1) they have been doing that all season and 2) even if they do they are not our competition for the last CL spot (that being Spurs and Everton who are well behind us). Not saying that a CL place is guaranteed but I would much rather us have a proper chance at winning the title and risk falling behind Arsenal for 4th place (and still likely get CL football) than being beaten to it by a few points by Man City.
 

Mascot88

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It's a lovely passionate argument about who should win on Arsenal and Man City. But it isn'tike we get to choose.

Thinking about it again, a draw would probably be the best result for us. But it's one of those games where we can take heart from any outcome.
 

ptt

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I think my heart's finally dropped below 180BPM. What a game of football. Not the monumental battering that I was predicting but hell, I can't be right all the time! So, to the match. I'd love to have seen a simultaneous match with us playing 433 rather than the diamond. We've been do good this season going flat out forwards, I'd like to see us continue in the same vein. Excellent performance from Gerrard, particularly when he said to Suarez "Actually buddy, I'll be taking this one" Some heart in mouth defending at the end and some serious errors during the game (their goal ffs) but Sakho coming in for Agger should help that. As a team we weren't brilliant but 3 points was the priority but not the best thing.

Ah, the best thing. The absolute golden shining light of the game which fills me with so much joy, expectation, pride and bounce. When it mattered, when it really mattered, when we played badly, when we struggled a bit, when we looked a little weary, when Suarez was below par and when we'd normally have drawn / lost, we won. We haven't just regained our aura of invincibility, confidence, swagger and team spirit from United, we've nicked their ability to win when we're playing badly. Granted that's badly compared to our recent performances which have been off the charts but the fact stands that we've lost so many games like this over the years. Now we just win whether we win well or win ugly, we win. We win. WE WIN!
 

WrinkledMind

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How wonderful was it, that John O'shea missed an absolute sitter yesterday, that would have (and should have) made it 2-2.

Remember that match at Anfield, locked at 0-0, when Ronaldo put it a stinging freekick at Reina's goal in the 90th min, at the Kop end?Remember John O'Shea slotting in the rebound after Reina fumbled?Remember the nauseating Gary Neville celebrating few mins later at the other day?A proper smash and grab.A game we should have won then.

Ahh Karma, my sweet lovely girl, she remembers.
 

Poor Scouser Tommy

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gingerbread said:
And i thought Sturridge's frustration was bad. We are truly fucked if this is how Suarez gonna play from now on.

BR clearly need a word with him. His ability still there, but his head was not


Incredibly happy with the 3 points of course
Don't worry. After we get relegated at the end of the season, we'll sell him to the cheapest bidder.

Once him and his negative attitude have been moved along, we will start rebuilding.

Hang in there, tiger. The end is near. :thumbright:
 

lfc.eddie

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liverpool_singh said:
It doesn't really matter though if Arsenal are breathing down our necks because 1) they have been doing that all season and 2) even if they do they are not our competition for the last CL spot (that being Spurs and Everton who are well behind us). Not saying that a CL place is guaranteed but I would much rather us have a proper chance at winning the title and risk falling behind Arsenal for 4th place (and still likely get CL football) than being beaten to it by a few points by Man City.
My take on city against arsenal does not negate us challenging for top spot. It's merely having a breathing room for our inexperience team to push forward. Don't forget we have been seen as an under dog all season long and now looked poised to be called a dark horse. The pressure could be too much if we have teams waiting for us to slip and pounce on it.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves and let's focus on getting through next few games winning them. Once we meet Chelsea and beat them, that's more important than hoping Arsenal beating City and allowing them tobclose the gap on us.
 

Dublin_Kopite

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Just watching the game back and Glen Johnson was awful.
On that performance he deserves to be dropped for Sunday but unfortunately the alternative options aren't great either.
 

Mascot88

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lfc.eddie said:
My take on city against arsenal does not negate us challenging for top spot. It's merely having a breathing room for our inexperience team to push forward. Don't forget we have been seen as an under dog all season long and now looked poised to be called a dark horse. The pressure could be too much if we have teams waiting for us to slip and pounce on it.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves and let's focus on getting through next few games winning them. Once we meet Chelsea and beat them, that's more important than hoping Arsenal beating City and allowing them tobclose the gap on us.
I see where you're coming from - I said when Arsenal played Chelsea I was hoping for, if not a draw, then a Chavs win. I completely get the wish for a bit of daylight between us before we look up the table.
 

Poor Scouser Tommy

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Arminius said:
You are missing a couple, Fowler and Rush were both over 20 in 1994, Walsh/Rush in 1985, Dalglish/Rush 1982, Johnson/Dalglish 1980 and 1979.
The stats being quoted by others are league only.