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Post match: Liverpool 2 Sunderland 1

BrennansRed

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Poor Scouser Tommy said:
The stats being quoted by others are league only.
They'd both be on 30 odd each in the league if they had each others backs a bit more. So many times they've had the option of the other in a better position but didn't give it. Got away with it so far but its a little bit frustrating at times. Not nitpicking just want to see the both of them fully realise their potential's and help each other out. It's a tiny chink in the armour of the pair of them but it is one nonetheless.
 

Quagmire81

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BrennansRed said:
They'd both be on 30 odd each in the league if they had each others backs a bit more. So many times they've had the option of the other in a better position but didn't give it. Got away with it so far but its a little bit frustrating at times. Not nitpicking just want to see the both of them fully realise their potential's and help each other out. It's a tiny chink in the armour of the pair of them but it is one nonetheless.
We all want the team to be best buddies and all, but maybe it's the rivalry between them that have them playing up to their best everytime. As long as there's no directly disrespect between them I think it's healthy, and they assists each other much more than they go rogue too.

Daniel was close to the edge of what's acceptable in that game where he left Luis much frustrated with him, especially one chance when he should have passes the ball but choice to shot himself. Same game where he showed too much annoyance with his sub towards Rodgers, and Brendan said some harsh words to him. He clam down a bit afterwards, so that's a good sign from Daniel.
 

Bobbinho

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Dublin_Kopite said:
Just watching the game back and Glen Johnson was awful.
On that performance he deserves to be dropped for Sunday but unfortunately the alternative options aren't great either.
I agree that Glen should be dropped, what made it worse last night was that we kept feeding him the ball down the right side, many attacks just broke down, kept breaking down throughout the game....

It's been a long time since i've seen us so static up front, Suarez didn't help matters much either, between the two of them we squandered countless opportunities in & around the box, borderline comical at times tbh, players falling over, slipping up losing the ball, plenty of effort with hardly any end product....

I feel that we are slowly regressing in our performances, lacking the same fluidity & balance that we had earlier when Flanno was at RB...& Sterling was a regular starter...., we created more chances, more direct in our play, last night we were very poor in the final third, Glen was woeful & i don't see that changing against Spurs if BR plays him again.

He should be benched, BR needs to get a grip on keeping things tight in this team, otherwise one too many below form performances are going to cost us dearly...
 

BrennansRed

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Quagmire81 said:
We all want the team to be best buddies and all, but maybe it's the rivalry between them that have them playing up to their best everytime. As long as there's no directly disrespect between them I think it's healthy, and they assists each other much more than they go rogue too.

Daniel was close to the edge of what's acceptable in that game where he left Luis much frustrated with him, especially one chance when he should have passes the ball but choice to shot himself. Same game where he showed too much annoyance with his sub towards Rodgers, and Brendan said some harsh words to him. He clam down a bit afterwards, so that's a good sign from Daniel.
Yeah that's one of the best things about Danny, when he makes mistakes he always learns and almost always puts it right at the first opportunity which is usually the post match presser. The competition between them for now is healthy enough and probably what we need at this minute cause they are scoring almost at will but its shortsighted in the long run. They cant lose sight of the bigger picture, it could well have cost us against Sunderland i caught 2 clear examples of it, 1 each, i'd rather be 4-1 up with them pulling further away in the goals/assists charts.
 

OOTer

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Arminius said:
I thought the crowd last night was intermittently terrible, though for understandable reasons. Absolutely brilliant in the pre-game and at the start, but good grief we are a nervy bunch. Ideally the support will take a lesson away as well, and be ready to lift the side rather than react with it.
This. Although I wouldn't say terrible. But yeah. When the team is nervous, it would be nice if the support recognised this as cheered the team back into confidence. Hard to do, but it could make a big difference... as scientistically proven @ http://www.mpg.de/6634785/music-connects-brains
 

CJ_LFC

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If you thought the atmosphere was terrible then why don't you buy a ticket like those of us who did and contribute towards the atmosphere instead of sitting behind your keyboards slagging off the atmosphere inside the ground when people pay and actually bother to go the game with their hard earned cash in such a shitty economy. Most likely aren't even from Liverpool or England. Pathetic tbh.
 

EdWood

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CJ_LFC said:
If you thought the atmosphere was terrible then why don't you buy a ticket like those of us who did and contribute towards the atmosphere instead of sitting behind your keyboards slagging off the atmosphere inside the ground when people pay and actually bother to go the game with their hard earned cash in such a shitty economy. Most likely aren't even from Liverpool or England. Pathetic tbh.
Ease down mate.

Chances are that many of us just can't afford to worship at the Anfield shrine in person. Please allow also that Merseysiders have dispersed to all corners of the globe for one reason or another and it simply might not be practical for a Red living in Vancouver or some such to attend every home game. Also take into account if you will that LFC fans born abroad, rather than having just glory-hunted us, might conceivably have identified us as having something special about us, in spite of our travails on and off the field over the last few years.

I suspect that your average LFC fan loves the club for what it is, not for what some oligarch twat has chosen to make of his tax-deductible hobby. Give the lads and lasses a break. :)
 

Arminius

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CJ_LFC said:
If you thought the atmosphere was terrible then why don't you buy a ticket like those of us who did and contribute towards the atmosphere instead of sitting behind your keyboards slagging off the atmosphere inside the ground when people pay and actually bother to go the game with their hard earned cash in such a shitty economy. Most likely aren't even from Liverpool or England. Pathetic tbh.
The atmosphere for much of the game was fantastic. However the tension was palpable, the near silence at points in the first half was really noticeable and that can only contribute to a rising nervousness in the side. It was not a prawn-sandwich sort of silence, it was sort of worse and better than that.

I can only imagine what it would have been like without Gerrard's goal. I can't really fault the people who are going to the game for getting caught up in the nerves along with the players - it has been so long it is impossible to avoid, hence my comment about it being understandable. But I hope the Anfield crowd can move past that in the games to come and find a way to manifest the sheer will to triumph when the team might need it. We are fighting at long odds for something truly remarkable, and I think it is going to take everything the club has - manager, players, supporters, and all - pulling at their very best to come out on the other side.
 

CJ_LFC

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EdWood said:
Ease down mate.

Chances are that many of us just can't afford to worship at the Anfield shrine in person. Please allow also that Merseysiders have dispersed to all corners of the globe for one reason or another and it simply might not be practical for a Red living in Vancouver or some such to attend every home game. Also take into account if you will that LFC fans born abroad, rather than have just glory-hunted us, might conceivably have identified us as having something special about us, in spite of our travails on and off the field over the last few years.

I suspect that your average LFC fan loves the club for what it is, not for what some oligarch twat has chosen to make of his tax-deductible hobby. Give the lads and lasses a break. :)
Liverpool fans in this country cannot afford tickets but still manage to get up to Anfield every week and cheer the reds on. I just find it funny how people on here can criticise the atmosphere based on what they heard on their Sky Sports stream when in reality the atmosphere in real life inside the ground is a whole lot different to what people here on their streams and telly.

I'm just pointing out, saying the atmosphere is terrible when they never bother getting up to Anfield and start singing leading other people on is rather embarrassing.
 

CJ_LFC

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Arminius said:
The atmosphere for much of the game was fantastic. However the tension was palpable, the near silence at points in the first half was really noticeable and that can only contribute to a rising nervousness in the side. It was not a prawn-sandwich sort of silence, it was sort of worse and better than that.

I can only imagine what it would have been like without Gerrard's goal. I can't really fault the people who are going to the game for getting caught up in the nerves along with the players - it has been so long it is impossible to avoid, hence my comment about it being understandable. But I hope the Anfield crowd can move past that in the games to come and find a way to manifest the sheer will to triumph when the team might need it. We are fighting at long odds for something truly remarkable, and I think it is going to take everything the club has - manager, players, supporters, and all - pulling at their very best to come out on the other side.
All the top clubs in England are the same. The EPL becoming so popular across the globe, most fans are just day trippers, tourists and families on a day out. Not that I have a problem with that but that's happening to all the top 5 clubs in England.

I do think getting rid of the terraces also damaged the atmosphere also because in the late 70's and 80's it was rocking.
 

Arminius

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CJ_LFC said:
I'm just pointing out, saying the atmosphere is terrible when they never bother getting up to Anfield and start singing leading other people on is rather embarrassing.
Just to be clear, when I used the word 'terrible', it was not in the sense that the atmosphere at the Emirates is pathetic. Maybe not the best word, what I was getting at was how it was amplifying the highs and more importantly the lows that the players were struggling through. I have played in front of some huge crowds, and there is nothing quite like the roar of tens of thousands of people as you face into adversity - your heart rate picks up, adrenalin and endorphins kick in, at root we are still animals that way.
 

CJ_LFC

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Arminius said:
Just to be clear, when I used the word 'terrible', it was not in the sense that the atmosphere at the Emirates is pathetic. Maybe not the best word, what I was getting at was how it was amplifying the highs and more importantly the lows that the players were struggling through. I have played in front of some huge crowds, and there is nothing quite like the roar of tens of thousands of people as you face into adversity - your heart rate picks up, adrenalin and endorphins kick in, at root we are still animals that way.
Oh I see mate, sorry I took it wrong the way. I understand were you are coming from now. I do understand with it being a must win game the ground would of been silent at times with nerves with the threat of attack in which Sunderland posed. It'll be bouncing against Spurs though especially when we are on top.
 

Arminius

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CJ_LFC said:
Oh I see mate, sorry I took it wrong the way. I understand were you are coming from now. I do understand with it being a must win game the ground would of been silent at times with nerves with the threat of attack in which Sunderland posed. It'll be bouncing against Spurs though especially when we are on top.
LFC is on the cusp of something that could rank with Istanbul. The broadcast I was watching cut back to the stadium and you could hear YNWA. A neutral friend I was watching with was so stunned that the supporters of the losing side that he counts himself a LFC fan from that moment. I will always believe that without the sheer will of the supporters to lift them up, the game was over at the half.

We need that at Anfield.
 

anglian_red

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Fantastic result. The lads made us sweat towards the end but I knew they'd pull through and I'm made up they did. If we win this thing, we'll look back on games like this. I've seen Man United play worse than we did last night and win down the years. Sometimes you have to do this and we managed it. Sunderland's goal is slack marking but I think that's the first goal we've conceded from a corner since Boxing Day? If so, there's not much to worry about there.

Jamie Carragher said something in the build up which I agreed with. He spoke about how Brendan needs to be careful assuming we'll win the title in the next few years if it doesn't happen this year. He said he finished 2nd in 2009 and 7th just 12 months later. There's obviously many reasons for that but even if the club was well run, debt free with Rafa being fully backed, there's no guarantee we'd have won it the following season. Since then, Man City have come into it which just proves you can't bank on improvement next year.

I really think this is our chance. All our rivals tell us the same thing, we have the advantage with no European football. Well next season we won't have that advantage because we're 95% certain to be in the Champions League. Manchester City will go in hard again in the summer with Pellegrini fully settled in. Chelsea will probably spend big money on at least one big centre forward and there's no way Man United will be as shit as they've been this year, they'll probably have a different manager by then.

Anybody who's banking on getting another free hit out of United, on City losing those silly away games again, on Chelsea struggling upfront and on ourselves not needing to use the squad needs to get real. This is our big chance. It'll be harder next year, we'll need to go further just to stand still. We've finished 2nd twice in the last 15 odd years and struggled to follow it up, but we're on the verge of something bettering Istanbul here.

It doesn't matter that we're leaking goals. It doesn't matter that Iago Aspas is on our bench. It doesn't matter that our squad is thin below the first 11. The finishing line is in sight and we can get through 7 games with those problems. Fix them next year.

Fucking come on!
 

BostonMick

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BrennansRed said:
Yeah pretty much, found myself screaming at him a good few times but as Armenius said he probably still needed to get up to speed fully post injury, hopefully he's sharp and ready for sunday, no room to be carrying anyone at this stage.
Had similar observations about Glenn. Very frustrating given that he had put 2 decent shifts in in the prior two games
 

anglian_red

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I think it's astonishing that we've pretty much sewn up Champions League qualification for the first time this decade and we're barely even discussing that. It's as assured as it can be with 7 games to go and back in August, most of us were probably expecting a brutal race for 4th (probably with Spurs & Arsenal) to go right to the wire in May. We were thinking we might find ourselves in the position Spurs did in 2012, where we watch a Champions League final anxiously hoping for the English side to lose.

We probably should be pleased our fight for CL football has gone so well, but instead we're looking up now.

It's only natural to look upwards now. That's where the pain and anxiety is.
 

Arminius

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anglian_red said:
I think it's astonishing that we've pretty much sewn up Champions League qualification for the first time this decade and we're barely even discussing that. It's as assured as it can be with 7 games to go and back in August, most of us were probably expecting a brutal race for 4th (probably with Spurs & Arsenal) to go right to the wire in May. We were thinking we might find ourselves in the position Spurs did in 2012, where we watch a Champions League final anxiously hoping for the English side to lose.

We probably should be pleased our fight for CL football has gone so well, but instead we're looking up now.

It's only natural to look upwards now. That's where the pain and anxiety is.
There is also the sound instinct from climbing a cliff. If we look down to see the fight for 4th, vertigo can set in. As long as we are chasing the title, the pressure to finish 4th (or the important 3rd) isn't a part of the equation.

If the season ended today with the table where it is, I'd be absolutely delighted. But it has been a very long time since we had this sort of shot at the title. Even 2008/09 was a long chase we almost managed - this is running in the front pack.
 

anglian_red

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08/09 was an astounding effort from Rafa Benitez and his team. Hunting United down like rabid dogs all the way felt great and everybody could see they were stumbling towards the line and we were moving like a train (good old fashioned train, none of this electric cobblers). I remember us blowing away Real Madrid, United & Villa all in one week. We had Ferguson truly terrified and United probably wouldn't have got 90 points if it wasn't for Liverpool bearing down on them. He made his team get whatever was needed to keep us away from it, they scraped over the line and we simply ran out of games.

You know, the title challenge sort of came from nowhere that season too. We'd finished 4th the previous year with us fans talking more about Rafa's future and problems arising with the ownership - I'll never forget Brian Reade describing Foster Gillett's online argument with a fan as blow-me-fuck-face-gate. 08/09 started slowly, limping past Standard Liege and winning sluggishly in the league. We went top in the first couple of months but didn't stay there that long, but in the second half of the season it all just took off.
 
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lfc.eddie said:
My take on city against arsenal does not negate us challenging for top spot. It's merely having a breathing room for our inexperience team to push forward. Don't forget we have been seen as an under dog all season long and now looked poised to be called a dark horse. The pressure could be too much if we have teams waiting for us to slip and pounce on it.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves and let's focus on getting through next few games winning them. Once we meet Chelsea and beat them, that's more important than hoping Arsenal beating City and allowing them tobclose the gap on us.
Nope can't agree with that. If we really want ourselves some breathing room it should be against Man City in the title chase. As it stands they are currently potentially 4 points ahead of us (if they win their 2 games in hand) and if they win against Arsenal not only will we be required to win every single one of our games till the end of the season but we would also need them to slip up against another side. Now that is where the margin of error becomes zero. Instead if Man City were to lose/draw against Arsenal it puts the destiny entirely in our own hands and also gives us some breathing space in case we get a draw/loss against another opposition.

In terms of Arsenal even if they win (and we beat Spurs) they will still be 5 points behind us with 6 games to go. And let's say even if they then manage to close the gap on us the reality is us both of us will still be fighting for position 3 or 4 (both of which qualify for the CL). As long as the Mancs don't win the CL (which seems unlikely at this stage) it doesn't really matter much if we finish 3rd or 4th. The fact is Arsenal should be the least of our worries at this stage given that both Chelsea and Man City are much more likely to win the title than them and that is where the pressure on us is going to come from.

In any case, I agree with Mascot88 in that a draw would be the best result in this fixture and that should keep both of us happy! :)
 

anglian_red

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We can still achieve 89 points. I said this about 6 weeks ago and said we'd need every single one of them to win this thing.

We're still on course people.
 

gasband

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Like I said before, we can achieve 89 points and still not win the league, just like the Manures did some seasons ago and we would be tied on that record, to achieve the highest ever points total but yet not win the league. But no matter what, I bet all the fans will be proud of what we have done and will do this season. Onto better things!
 

lfc.eddie

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OhYaBeauty said:
Nah, you're out of it. You were out of it the second Gibbs got sent off against Chelsea. Look at it this way, here's how many points the top four have, and how many they have to play for:

Chelsea: 69+21=90
Liverpool: 68+21=89
City: 66+27=94
Arsenal: 63+21=84

So even if you were to beat City, it'd end up looking like:

Chelsea: 90
Liverpool:89
City: 91
Arsenal: 84

It's all well and good to be optimistic, but to think it's possible for those three clubs to drop five-seven points each, over the course of seven games is pretty unrealistic at this point in time. That's essentially expecting City, Chelsea, and Liverpool to each lose one or two games and draw one game in addition to you beating City this weekend. Not gonna happen.
If Chelsea finishes with 90 points we will finish with 86, if we win all our other games left. If Arsenal finishes at 84, then City won't finish at 91, given that you assumed we beat them (91 instead of 94, 3 points drop). So therefore Chelsea will win the league, with City finishing 88 and us at 86. If we gain all 21 points in the last 7 games, Arsenal win all their remaining 7 games as well, the table will look like this...

Liverpool - 89
City - 88
Chelsea - 87
Arsenal - 84

We will win the league.
 

OOTer

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Arminius said:
Just to be clear, when I used the word 'terrible', it was not in the sense that the atmosphere at the Emirates is pathetic. Maybe not the best word, what I was getting at was how it was amplifying the highs and more importantly the lows that the players were struggling through. I have played in front of some huge crowds, and there is nothing quite like the roar of tens of thousands of people as you face into adversity - your heart rate picks up, adrenalin and endorphins kick in, at root we are still animals that way.
You originally said 'intermittently terrible'. In the 'non-nervous' moments it was beautiful. Hell even the nervous tension was beautiful for showing how passionate supporters we are.

But the point wasn't supposed to draw a match goers vs argument. The point was we need to help the team through those nervous moments in the match. Our boys need us more than ever and now is the time to play our most important role yet, we are the 12th man. Stay positive, stay patient, stay passionate and stay supportive.
 

redalways

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lfc.eddie said:
If Chelsea finishes with 90 points we will finish with 86, if we win all our other games left. If Arsenal finishes at 84, then City won't finish at 91, given that you assumed we beat them (91 instead of 94, 3 points drop). So therefore Chelsea will win the league, with City finishing 88 and us at 86. If we gain all 21 points in the last 7 games, Arsenal win all their remaining 7 games as well, the table will look like this...

Liverpool - 89
City - 88
Chelsea - 87
Arsenal - 84

We will win the league.
I think that would be the highest ever points total for 3rd and 4th? Would be incredible if that really happened...
 

anglian_red

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Well Arsenal's current form to date sees them on course for 77 points. Usually high 60s-low 70s has been enough for 4th spot in the last decade or so.
 

lovepool

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anglian_red said:
Well Arsenal's current form to date sees them on course for 77 points. Usually high 60s-low 70s has been enough for 4th spot in the last decade or so.
Arsenal's next two is City and away to Everton who have just 2 home defeats in 2 years. The Arse could easily lose both of these and it's likely in my view
 

Dhoff3

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Am I alone in thinking that this game wasn't as close or tough as many are making it out to be? I think we forget that games are often one by a one goal margin. Suarez could have put them out of it had he been shooting a bit better but really I thought we dominated pretty much all of this game. Towards the end, yes, we sat back to kill off the final 10 and Ki was a bit threatening but Sunderland hardly troubled Mingolet. I think the scope and magnitude of where Liverpool is right now is just rattling everyone. Yes they could have equalized and they hit a post, but we played well enough to maybe put 4 or 5 past them had things gone just a little different. As it stands, it was a comfortable 2-1 win in my opinion. Nothing more then 3 points down with 7 more to go.
 

Poor Scouser Tommy

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anglian_red said:
08/09 was an astounding effort from Rafa Benitez and his team. Hunting United down like rabid dogs all the way felt great and everybody could see they were stumbling towards the line and we were moving like a train (good old fashioned train, none of this electric cobblers). I remember us blowing away Real Madrid, United & Villa all in one week. We had Ferguson truly terrified and United probably wouldn't have got 90 points if it wasn't for Liverpool bearing down on them. He made his team get whatever was needed to keep us away from it, they scraped over the line and we simply ran out of games.

You know, the title challenge sort of came from nowhere that season too. We'd finished 4th the previous year with us fans talking more about Rafa's future and problems arising with the ownership - I'll never forget Brian Reade describing Foster Gillett's online argument with a fan as blow-me-fuck-face-gate. 08/09 started slowly, limping past Standard Liege and winning sluggishly in the league. We went top in the first couple of months but didn't stay there that long, but in the second half of the season it all just took off.
So, you're saying that in 08/09 we were slow, noisy, prone to derailing and likely to kill our manager?

I thought that was during Hodgson's reign?
 

alphakilo

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I thought this was the Sunderland post-match thread....anyway, my two cents.

While I don't think our midfield were quite at it defensively, they negated the need for defending by keeping the ball supremely well, straight up till the Sunderland subs. Not sure what happened after that 60+ minute mark.

Both fullbacks were erratic, and the forwards were perhaps our weakest players for once (compared to their performances this season). Suarez in particular just seemed to get worse and worse - until Sturridge got taken off, after which he was pretty good again. Very weird game this.
 

CJ_LFC

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Poor Scouser Tommy said:
So, you're saying that in 08/09 we were slow, noisy, prone to derailing and likely to kill our manager?

I thought that was during Hodgson's reign?
Yer it was, we were a fucking car crash back then.