Post match: Liverpool 3 Palace 1

Bleeding Red

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104TOSH said:
shockingly inept 2nd half! totally uninspiring. Hendo was my MOTM, but to be honest I lost interest in the second half. Sterling was awful.

3pts.
a win.
top of the table.

eases the pain of that second half, but what is it about the second half blues..........
Listened to it on the radio on the way home. Second half just sounded like a non-event. We closed the game down. The second half wasn't great but it was different to some of the other games in the sense that we weren't hanging on and just went down a couple of gears. Frankly, I think alot of them were just making sure they stayed out of the woods and avoided injury before they head off for International duty.
 

jimbo

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Not watched the game yet, recorded motd though. I really think sterling needs to go out on loan January. clearly Henderson can be a carrick for us, keep the game ticking over. We need a technical attacking midfielder can't rely on Coutinho to do all the link up play. Johnson couldn't come back quick enough. will give my thoughts after watching the game.
 

darren kelly

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If Coutinho comes back we will be better.I have this tiny tiny little ray of hope we will finish at least top 4 and maybe be Champions.
Man U are playing crap and City and Everton and Chelsea are losing games.Spurs have players who are still settling in.And Arsenal are bound to hit the wall soon.
 

costared

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Jimbo, I bet you can find a full match replay somewhere on the net. Better than watchingMOTD with highlights that are often biased to make a game look tighter than it was.
 

liveforthereds

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Hope in your heart said:
Deserved victory against a team lacking quality to really punish us for our weaknesses.

Again a very good first half, followed by a so-so second half. But the most important stat is there: 3-1, and three points more in the tally. Onwards and upwards!

:cheers:
I have to agree but the scond half of games have got to change. We can't keep relying on first half displays to win us games. When we come up against the likes of Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Spurs and even Utd they will be much harder games to sit back in and hold on for the win and possably the draw. We do have to start playing for 90 min!! not 45, it will come to hurt us long term.

As for the game we played well and took our goals well. As for the Penalty I do feel it was the right desision made by the linesman. About time we got something going our way. Now we go into the break with a bit of momentom let's hope the players who go away come back free of injury.

I am liking this 3 at the back or is it 5 ? the defence is looking much more solid and in time we should cut out the little errors.
 

SirBillShankly

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RedHed said:
Henderson's value shines through when he's not forced to be creative. He can't cross and he has panic attacks in front of goal. Yesterday I got the feeling he could be an upgrade on Lucas.
Agree, Jordan was excellent. His pace and energy is just what we have been missing in the middle. He looked really sharp, made blocks and passed well, did the simple things well. Hopefully he will stay there, although i can see him replacing Sterling at rwb and Lucas returning.
 

TheSweetSilverSong

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i_still_miss_fowler said:
The problem with this logic is that Henderson has played every game this season. Its not as if its just Gerrard and Lucas, and we have introduced in a new variable.

Sure he has played no 10 role or to the right, but when we have been under pressure he has dropped deep with Gerrard and Lucas. So it should not be surprising that the same pattern repeated. Just as it would not be surprising if hypothetically Gerrard got injured and we relied upon Lucas, Henderson and Moses.

No one player is responsble for our second half decline(s), but one top player can help stop them occuring (despite a good performance that is not Henderson)

Calls for dropping Gerrard, are akin to dropping Pirlo or Alonso because they dont run enough. He is easily still our best midfielder and the catalyst for our attacking play. The alternative is to lump that entire responsibility on a player not long turned 21, how wise is that ?

We know Lucas offers next to nothing attacking wise, Allen and Henderson more but still limited. Without Coutinhio our midfield minus Gerrard is almost totally inert. We may keep the ball better, but do nothing with it.

We all know there should be enough quality to maintain midfield superiority, be it Notts County or Palace. Age, and tiring legs are for me secondary to mentality and tactics. Our performances drop as a team, even if it is most stark in midfield. (From our attackers defending from the front, to our defenders dropping deeper)
My thoughts exactly. And thinking that Coutinho and Gerrard are so undroppable, yet our midfield balance and chemistry is problematic, it comes down to finding the factor that will transform that balance and chemistry, and I'm becoming convinced that it would inevitably involve the 3rd player in the equation, which is one I rate very highly: Lucas.
The thing is, eventually we should bring in someone that will be ideal to provide that balance and chemistry, but until at least January, we would need to see what we have in the squad that can help us make it work until then.

Looking at our options, I can only see 3 possibilities:

The first one would be yesterday's option: Henderson. He seems to be our joker, a player that can successfully fill in various positions and do at least a good job. He was asked to fill in for DM yesterday and did a great job. Will he be able to do it as well vs opposition that are decent? It remains to be seen. Will that option bring the balance and chemistry we lack in midfield? We'll need to see that option with Coutinho, Gerrard, Henderson, and vs decent opposition in order to say for sure. I certainly hope so.

The second one wold be Allen. In a midfield of Allen, Gerrard and Coutinho, that would mean Gerrard would have to become much more of a defensive midfielder and take on much more Lucas' play-breaking duties, as Allen does not have that physicality and attribute in his game. While it theoretically gives us two ball controlling defensive midfielders, and two passers, in practice I think it will limit Gerrard as it will force him to concentrate on his defensive responsibilities, and it might end up resulting in practically two changes: essentially Gerrard for Lucas and Allen for Gerrard. That's the danger in that option in my opinion. It can certainly work vs specific opportunity, so I don't dismiss it as an option, but I think it can't work in many games.

The third one is a more radical one, and I've stated it before (in the thread I've posted a few days ago "Let's talk tactics", with feedback splitting between agreeing and disagreeing), and it's just an option I think we have in the squad until the balance-bringing midfielder that we seem to need is brought. I'm finding this third option probably less realistic to be tried (even though Rodgers' descriptions had suggested it could be such an option), because I think the greatest opportunity to try it was in the Crystal Palace game, and it wasn't tried, so I doubt that from this point on Rodgers will even try it, but I still consider it a viable option.
It's Kolo Toure, and the reasoning behind it is that he is not unfamiliar with the position, and that he is a player that has all the defensive attributes that the position requires, but at the same time can bring the game forward and contribute to the attack.
The element that makes this option be potentially the right ingredient, is that the above two options require Gerrard to take over more defensive responsibilities, while this one practically releases him as much as the Lucas option does. But unlike the Lucas option, it does offer one more player contributing in bringing the game forward.

Just wanted to stress again that the reason I'm considering our DM options is not because I don't rate Lucas (far from it, I rate him highly), but because we clearly have a midfield problem of balance and chemistry, where I believe Coutinho and Gerrard are two players that are too instrumental to be changed.

At the end of the day, Rodgers will either stick to Lucas and wait to see how it looks when the fully fit starting XI looks (something we never had so far this season), or opt for one of the 3 alternatives above, at least until we have a fully fit starting XI.
All this can be concluded before January, and that's good because by then he should have concluded whether we'll need that midfield transfer next window.
 

DeathOrGlory

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Read an interesting stat on ESPN just now.

Apparantly we've never lost a game at home in the league when we've led by two goals. We've won 311 out of 313 games, drawing the other two.
 

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Joe90 said:
Alright, alright! So 60% was a slight exaggeration.

It IS more like 25% :wacko: .

Still, that's one in four, which is a lot.

Sure, great to reduce the number of goals conceded, but in the end, you're gonna concede from set pieces.

As a coach, I'm more focused on converting our chances than worrying too much about conceding.

In the end, you're either playing to win, or playing to not lose. There's a difference.

I seem to remember a certain group of asshats winning the league last year by conceding loads, but always scoring just one more than the other team...
Yeah.... well, in general it's a bit easier to win if you don't concede a goal every time the others get a free kick or a corner.
Unless you're talking about setting a team up solely to defend I think your point is extremely far fetched. It's kindda defending poor execution in standard situations with excuses about philosophy of attacking-minded football.

In our case it is not only a matter of conceeding "a goal"... but of conceeding the same kinds of goals again and again in similar situations AND worst of all, by completely horrendous marking.
Gerrard or Enrique.... maybe both..... defended like amateurs in that situation. The Crystal Palace player simply just danced by Enrique and went in front of Gerrard who wasn't even attacking the ball. Scandalous defending/marking and not at all a well taken situation, but simply a huge mistake by our defence. Very, very poor by both... of course depending on the agreements handed out by the staff... but nevertheless poor.

I respect your apparent full-on attacking philosophy... though I don't agree with it, as I believe part of our succes this year comes more from Toure, Sakho, Mignolet and the likes than from "scoring more goals than the opponent"..... but even still, you're making it a debate about playing styles and football philosophy, when it's really just a matter of lousy defending and amateur marking.

It's not at all our "football-concept" or style that's handing the opponents those goals again and again. It's just poor defending... which is a liability that needs to be addressed beacuse it's been happening for long and it seems ongoing.
 

EdWood

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SirBillShankly said:
Agree, Jordan was excellent. His pace and energy is just what we have been missing in the middle. He looked really sharp, made blocks and passed well, did the simple things well. Hopefully he will stay there, although i can see him replacing Sterling at rwb and Lucas returning.
What we've got to ask ourselves is, would Lucas have done as well as Hendo playing the same role in yesterday's game? A theoretical question certainly, but it seems to me that Lucas has been pretty average so far this season. In fact since returning from his last long lay off, he's been a shadow of his former self, and has probably only been playing so much because he's been only available DM.

If Henderson can adapt to being a sitting midfielder and still put a shift in, this would solve a major problem for us - that is that Lucas just has to play every game he's available for (despite the loss of his edge), simply because BR has no one else to fill his role adequately.
 

Red Armada

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The most positive thing for me from yesterday's win is Rodgers coming out post game and acknowledging the problems that are there for everyone to see. It's reassuring to know that the manager has his feet on the ground, is aware of our weaknesses and is working on them. It may seem as a given especially at this level but that is not always the case.

The match does not lend itself to much analysis. We were facing a virtually championship side, further weakened by injuries. We totally dominated them when we felt like it but ultimately we came well short of a satisfying performance by repeating the same mistakes that have plagued us since the start of the season. As Rodgers stated there is a lot of work to be done if we are to compete for CL qualification.
 

soberphobia

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Some things are basic to football regardless of philosophy. Poor marking from a set piece is poor marking from a set piece it matters not if you are Stoke or Barcelona. Our defence looks more solid this year and i a much more comfortable seeing Mignolet, Sakho and Toure at the back with any high balls whipped in than I was last year.

There is still a bit of polish to be added to our defending but it isn't panic stations just an acknowledgement that we aren't as disciplined and drilled there as we could be. We have a ridiculous wealth of Centre halves and our strikers are the ducks nuts but lack a really class dominant midfielder at the minute but perhaps one will emerge and stamp a claim.

We are so strong in some areas of the pitch that perhaps it highlights our weaker areas more so.
 

costared

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I said elsewhwere that I was surprised we did not have a man on the far post as the free kick was from such a narrow angle. I have just watched it again and we had Enrique in that position but at the last moment he drifted off the post into no mans land for no explicable reason. Had he had the discipline to hold his position he would have easily saved a goal and been a hero.
 

MadMax7

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I didn't see the game yesterday but it's sounding like the concern I have about us is still there - centre mid. It's not the formation. Problem has been there all season. Not aggressive enough, not pressing hard enough, giving the oppo too much time and space.
 

ptt

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I hope we continue to play badly in the second half, so long ad we've won the match by 45 minutes!
 

RedSeven

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ptt said:
I hope we continue to play badly in the second half, so long ad we've won the match by 45 minutes!
We were winning 2-1 against Swansea at half time,played badly 2nd half and just about managed a draw.They where a decent side and i feel this is gonna catch up with us,causing us to lose more,the further we go into the season.
 

Quagmire81

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Reading the last few pages give the impression that Palace controlled the game and the midfield, lucky for me I actually watched the game and witness the complete opposite. Some certain posters are so eager to make Gerrard look bad it's tragicomical.

61,5% to 38,5% in possession in our favor are quite telling, and it was our most dominating game yet in the league.
Passing accuracy of 87,7% is also really good, and the best yet this season. we only had 72,9% against sunderland, and just 63,7% when we flopped against southampton .

Yesterday we had 13 shots at goal with 7 on target, which is lower than the impression I had after the game, but with 3 goals in return that's also our most effective game this season in that regards.

Stat wise it was by far our best game this season.
 

liveforthereds

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Quagmire81 said:
Reading the last few pages give the impression that Palace controlled the game and the midfield, lucky for me I actually watched the game and witness the complete opposite. Some certain posters are so eager to make Gerrard look bad it's tragicomical.

61,5% to 38,5% in possession in our favor are quite telling, and it was our most dominating game yet in the league.
Passing accuracy of 87,7% is also really good, and the best yet this season. we only had 72,9% against sunderland, and just 63,7% when we flopped against southampton .

Yesterday we had 13 shots at goal with 7 on target, which is lower than the impression I had after the game, but with 3 goals in return that's also our most effective game this season in that regards.

Stat wise it was by far our best game this season.
In the 2nd half yesterday we controled the game to a point yes but it was not until they scored did it spark the team into life. The 2nd half was poor in terms of the cutting edge and that has been a problem so far this season. We play like that against better quality teams we will be found out. I can't explane why this is happening and none of us know whats being said in the dressing room at half time but we do need to keep up the tempo in the 2nd half of games.
 

Quagmire81

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Liveforthereds said:
In the 2nd half yesterday we controled the game to a point yes but it was not until they scored did it spark the team into life. The 2nd half was poor in terms of the cutting edge and that has been a problem so far this season. We play like that against better quality teams we will be found out. I can't explane why this is happening and none of us know whats being said in the dressing room at half time but we do need to keep up the tempo in the 2nd half of games.
I think the typical happened, with three goals up the team took the foot off the gas a bit. I also don't think any of our subs helped turn things up.
If we weren't ahead and showed these signs I would get worried, but not with three goals up.

Two back to back 3-1 wins shows great promise of how far this formation can take us, and that has been without Coutinho. It's a bit early to say but the Hendo - Gerrard combination in the middle seems like a hit, I hope we will see more to it. Johnson in for Sterling as wingback will be a major improvement too. We might gonna miss a third striker option in the long run, but we can just hope Aspas steps up when needed.

All in all, I think it's looking great for our future.
 

Bobbinho

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costared said:
I said elsewhwere that I was surprised we did not have a man on the far post as the free kick was from such a narrow angle. I have just watched it again and we had Enrique in that position but at the last moment he drifted off the post into no mans land for no explicable reason. Had he had the discipline to hold his position he would have easily saved a goal and been a hero.
This.

Can someone please confirm if Enrique did indeed leave the far post or not...?
 

Bobbinho

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Quagmire81 said:
Reading the last few pages give the impression that Palace controlled the game and the midfield, lucky for me I actually watched the game and witness the complete opposite. Some certain posters are so eager to make Gerrard look bad it's tragicomical.

61,5% to 38,5% in possession in our favor are quite telling, and it was our most dominating game yet in the league.
Passing accuracy of 87,7% is also really good, and the best yet this season. we only had 72,9% against sunderland, and just 63,7% when we flopped against southampton .

Yesterday we had 13 shots at goal with 7 on target, which is lower than the impression I had after the game, but with 3 goals in return that's also our most effective game this season in that regards.

Stat wise it was by far our best game this season.
Indeed, it happens every week, regardless of his performance, easy target these day's because of his age....
 

sanjing07

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Seeing some comments on SG8's stats doesnt say the real story of the team's performance.

Firstly, 3 at the back with two wingbacks means we are giving up possession football for direct and impactful one. The reason why SG8's stats isnt looking good is precisely becos of that. The idea of this format is to allow as many opportunities as possible for the front 2 to face the back CBs on a two-on-two situation. Thus, when we get the ball, sometimes passing the ball forward is key. lucas and Hendo arent as adventurous as SG. SG sometimes try killer balls to SAS. That is why his stats numbers are not good. But it is not entirely significant enough to ask for him to be dropped.
 

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JoebloggsLFC said:
Indeed, it happens every week, regardless of his performance, easy target these day's because of his age....
To be fair it's not only Gerrard.
I think people are pickin' on the pickers depending on the point they themselves wish to make:) Be it Gerrard, Lucas, Allen or Henderson they alle have die-hard critics and die-hard supporters.

None of our midfielders avoid criticism these days.
I agree it's a bid too harsh sometimes, but again it highlights the fact that we do have problems.
People just have different ideas about who's to blame.
 

Quagmire81

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Stevie had good stat numbers for yesterday's game, he was the player with the most touches on the ball in the whole team, 100 compare to hendo's 91 with the second most. And he had a 87,1 % pass accuracy. That's not too bad I think.
 
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JoebloggsLFC said:
This.

Can someone please confirm if Enrique did indeed leave the far post or not...?
He wasn't at the far post but rather just standing half a meter behind Mignolet towards the far post. Then when the cross came in he was standing half a meter in front of him. Don't exactly know what he was doing though because he certainly wasn't marking anyone.

Here is their goal in the MOTD highlights and you can watch for yourself:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15lqp6_liverpool-vs-crystal-palace-match-of-the-day-highlights_creation?start=460
 

Bobbinho

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liverpool_singh said:
He wasn't at the far post but rather just standing half a meter behind Mignolet towards the far post. Then when the cross came in he was standing half a meter in front of him. Don't exactly know what he was doing though because he certainly wasn't marking anyone.

Here is their goal in the MOTD highlights and you can watch for yourself:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15lqp6_liverpool-vs-crystal-palace-match-of-the-day-highlights_creation?start=460
Thanks for posting that, i think Costared is spot on, he should have held his position, had nothing to gain by drifting in front of Mignolet other than to expose the far post...
 

Bobbinho

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Urban Achiever said:
To be fair it's not only Gerrard.
I think people are pickin' on the pickers depending on the point they themselves wish to make:) Be it Gerrard, Lucas, Allen or Henderson they alle have die-hard critics and die-hard supporters.

None of our midfielders avoid criticism these days.
I agree it's a bid too harsh sometimes, but again it highlights the fact that we do have problems.
People just have different ideas about who's to blame.
True, but when it's clearly wrong........

For me, no one escapes from a critique now & again, depends on how they perform or how they impact a game, be it negatively or positively i try to be as objective as i can, lately a few player';s have been on my radar as being worthy of some critcism, but when they play well i am quick to highlight it, for me we are still a tale of two halves, certain players play well first half then for whatever reason & with no change in tactics from the manager they stink the place out in the second.....poor passing, link up play & so on...

Im more inclined to look at the player's who are not as consistent with their performances, usually the stats will back this up, i don't see Gerrard as being inconsistent enough to warrant highlighting, we are largely where we are in the league thanks to Gerrard & a few other's who have been outstanding...Mignolet Sturridge Toure.., i think BR see's it the same way, has said as much.... & is reluctant to take him off or rest him which speaks volumes about how important he see's Gerrard's role in our progression re results...

Warranted criticism is fine, for me he did look tired & a bit jaded after his INTL duties the last time round, that said though.....i think he could have done with Hendo with him at the time which as we saw yesterday provides a lot more engine to our midfield,
 

gasband

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MarlboroMan said:
Agree, within in reason though. Like leave Gerrard to protect the back four but let Henderson go forward and press from the front. but yeah it was the mentality that was the reason we sat back in the second half. The commentators said that Rodgers wasn't asking the players to sit back in the second half of matches but they did anyway. That says to me that our guys aren't confident even being 3-0 up to keep going forward or are just too lazy to continue playing hard as the match was effectively won by then. There is one player that is supposed to make sure the others do as the manager request and that is the captain but if he's the first one getting tired and dropping deeper and deeper in the second half then who are they going to follow?
We also aren't rewarding Gerrard when he does make a run forward. There has been quite a few times this season when Stevie has gotten forward on a counter attack only to not get the ball or even get it passed his way.

Good first half though, not good enough quality from Sterling out wide but better than I think Kelly or Wisdom would have done. His awareness at wing back wasn't good, he got caught in tricky situations that he wasn't able to get out of and lost the ball a few times. He couldn't catch up to Camakh of all people which was a real shocker!
Henderson did really well, ran around a lot, made tackles and kept the ball well. TOP OF THE LEAGUE, for at least 24 hours.
And just to prove my point, Arsenal only managed to draw but because we did not go for the kill yesterday and conceded a goal, we drop to second although our GD is the same but because Arsenal scored more. If we had gone for the kill and scored just one more or did not concede, we would still be top of the league now. That is why i harped on mentality. Can you imagine this is the 38th game of the season where it is the title decider or more realistically, difference between 4th and 5th? That is why, we should never never never never ease off and I am afraid that such slack mentality will haunt us.