POST MATCH: Liverpool 4-0 Fulham

costared

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O.K. here is a sobering thought. We have only played 5 matches against teams currently in the top half of the table and we have 7 points from the possible 15. Mid table stuff. We are great to watch against lower teams but struggle against teams that play a faster, more competitive style of football.

( that is of course middle of the top half which makes us top 6 but not top 4)
 

SoueysTash

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Semmy said:
Unfortunately, I'll be on a cruise ship in the south Caribbean. Hope the sports bar gets satellite TV..
You poor sod, cancel it or send me the ticket ;-)
 

Mascot88

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costared said:
O.K. here is a sobering thought. We have only played 5 matches against teams currently in the top half of the table and we have 7 points from the possible 15. Mid table stuff. We are great to watch against lower teams but struggle against teams that play a faster, more competitive style of football.

( that is of course middle of the top half which makes us top 6 but not top 4)
Are we absolutely determined to find reason to not enjoy our fantastic start?

What are you telling us here?

We've played 5 matches against top half teams, and have taken 7 points.
We've played 6 matches against bottom half teams and have taken 16 points.

It seems to me that we do better against worse teams. Or teams in the bottom half are easier to beat than teams in the top. No shit.

At this point in the season we've played a decent mix of fodder, potential banana skins and hard games. We've taken 23 points. Or 2.09 points per game. That's champions league form - not the mark of mid-table struggles, or even also rans.

Let's see where we are in January, but for now the team is doing well, winning the games it should win and playing good football.

I await the inevitable 'we haven't beaten anyone above us yet' comment from someone....
 

redbj

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Add to that, taking three points off someone in the first ten weeks of the season can actually, yknow, make them lower on the table....
 

SirBillShankly

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costared said:
O.K. here is a sobering thought. We have only played 5 matches against teams currently in the top half of the table and we have 7 points from the possible 15. Mid table stuff. We are great to watch against lower teams but struggle against teams that play a faster, more competitive style of football.

( that is of course middle of the top half which makes us top 6 but not top 4)
Bloody killjoy. :)

But, you've got a big point, we were rubbish against Arsenal, when we start playing decent stuff against the better sides, that will give us a better indication of where we are really at. Don't we play Spurs, Chelsea and City in December?
 

Hope in your heart

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Before that, we have Everton on the plate, who are currently an excellent team and finished above us last term. A win at Goodison would be instrumental to keep any CL hopes alive imo, as it would put down a huge statement of intent and capacity, and most teams use to struggle there.

But we are not there yet. Any talk about future games against Chelsea etc. is too early. Let's play Martinez' boys first, and then see where we are.

(and before that, let's sit out these ƒ°©∆¡[email protected] international games...
 

Mascot88

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SirBillShankly said:
Bloody killjoy. :)

But, you've got a big point, we were rubbish against Arsenal, when we start playing decent stuff against the better sides, that will give us a better indication of where we are really at. Don't we play Spurs, Chelsea and City in December?
To a point, but our problem has always been our inability to smash the lower sides, whilst giving a good account of ourselves against the big guns. We'd tear our hair out at our habit of nicking a win against Chelsea and then going and getting beat by Portsmouth.

If we are developing a 'flat track bully' tendency then that will do me. We need to beat the teams we should be beating first and foremost. We then go into the games against the Chelsea's and City's looking to get what we can. But our season won't be defined by the results against the other five good teams in the league.

I'm not got to be going into any game against Spur's, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Utd expecting no less than three points. If we can nick a couple of wins and a couple of draws against them, while taking points off the rest of the league at the rate we have been, then we'll be fine.
 

LeoT

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Tetteh_Dalglish said:
Agreed. I'm very thrilled though that we can rip shite teams a new one. It's a point worth belaboring because not too long ago we could mix it up with the best of the top teams, but we'd waltz into matches against so-called shite teams and end up slipping on banana skins, flat on our asses with eggs on our faces. It's wonderful to be able to consistently thump the smaller teams. There are a lot more of them than top teams. UTD won their share of titles while looking average against the top teams and routinely dispatching all the little guys while we and others slipped up against Villa, Fulham and WBA.

The Lucas, Gerrard, Henderson trio isn't enough to go up against the most organized of top teams. The addition of Coutinho to that trio though adds such a boost in quality. The choice then becomes 4 at the back vs 3 at the back. There may be times when 3 at the back is the best bet, especially with a lead we want to protect and hit on the break. (Though ironically all our clean sheets have come with 4 at the back).

Suso plays a lot like Coutinho, and when we get him back as an option, and if Allen/Alberto step up to the level we need them to be, Rodgers will have the sort of headache we really want to have. Add Hughes and another DM into the mix and we should have enough combinations of midfielders to be able to adapt to most tests in either the 4-4-2 diamond, 4-1-3-2 set-up we had today, or the 3-5-2 when Rodgers opts for it.

Certainly we're in agreement that we ought to be careful extrapolating from such performances against the likes of Fulham to what is required against the likes of Arsenal/Chelsea/City. But the ability to routinely dispatch the bottom 13-14 teams while getting a decent return against the top teams ought to be enough to safely guarantee a top 3/4 finish. That's good enough for me this season.
I agree with you.

I would also add that I class beating ManU, ManC & Chelsea as a 'Nice to Have'.
I class not losing to Arsenal, Spurs & Everton as important.
I class beating Fulham, Palace, Sunderland, West Ham, etc as 'Absolutely Essential'.

If we beat all the teams from the 7th placed team down to the 20th placed team, both home and away we would have 78 points, that would have been enough to get us 2nd place last season.

It would have been nice to have beaten Arsenal, however it is just as important to have beaten Fulham.
 

lfc.eddie

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That was before Rodgers days Mascott. These days we find it hard to beat teams at top half of the table. Costared has a point whether we want to face it or not. Specifically teams above top 6. We have to be careful not to be overjoyed. But for now... Fuck it, just enjoy it while we can being above Man United for nearly half a dozen games gone.
 

Mascot88

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lfc.eddie said:
That was before Rodgers days Mascott. These days we find it hard to beat teams at top half of the table. Costared has a point whether we want to face it or not. Specifically teams above top 6. We have to be careful not to be overjoyed. But for now... Fuck it, just enjoy it while we can being above Man United for nearly half a dozen games gone.
I know - but I'm making a comparison. We all remember the frustrations under Benitez and Dalglish, when we go out a beat a title condender, think "brilliant - the season starts here", then go and get beat by relegation candidate.

What Rodgers seems to have done, going on about a season's worth of games, is to reverse that by making us very strong against the sides we should be beating. We've struggled against sides that are at the top, I don't deny that.

The point is that for a team in our position - looking to get back in the top four and build from there - that's probably a better balance. And I think it comes down to mentality. We're working hard in every game we play, and not taking anyone for granted. If we're being caught out, then it's because of a lack of ability rather than a lack of effort.

If we're to make the push on to genuine contenders, then obviously consistently beating those top sides is going to be very important as well. But for now I'm happy enough with being the proverbial flat track bullies.
 

costared

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Mascot88 said:
Are we absolutely determined to find reason to not enjoy our fantastic start?

What are you telling us here?

We've played 5 matches against top half teams, and have taken 7 points.
We've played 6 matches against bottom half teams and have taken 16 points.

It seems to me that we do better against worse teams. Or teams in the bottom half are easier to beat than teams in the top. No shit.

At this point in the season we've played a decent mix of fodder, potential banana skins and hard games. We've taken 23 points. Or 2.09 points per game. That's champions league form - not the mark of mid-table struggles, or even also rans.

Let's see where we are in January, but for now the team is doing well, winning the games it should win and playing good football.

I await the inevitable 'we haven't beaten anyone above us yet' comment from someone....
;) Can't read a wind up can you mascot.No one is enjoying our skilful ,entertaining football more than I but some are getting a bit carried away. Yes, if we are still top 4 come January we can start getting really excited. Not sure my old ticker can stand it though.
 

SirBillShankly

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Well, we have the Bitters up next, so that should be a good indicator of where we're really at, and what better way to prepare for this one than a game of this:


1454954_654648894557220_268217896_n.jpg
 

EdWood

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I don't think that the Derby will be a true indicator of where we are because it's always a lottery. It could go either way and we'll be none the wiser. However, if we're still up there in the New Year, we'll have reasons to be cheerful.
 

Poor Scouser Tommy

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Hope in your heart said:
  • Hadn't the Newcastle player been sent off, we'd probably have lost that game. They were playing us off the pitch before that red card.
Aah, but if one uses that type of logic, one could also say that we might have beaten Arsenal had Ramsey not taken a speculative shot from 35 yards away and got lucky. Furthermore, if Glen and Enrique been fit and we'd played four at the back, we would have been able to start with a midfield formation more suited to negating their strengths.

Good fortune may have had a hand in the result, but Lady Luck hasn't always been kind to us.

I know Mascot's a big boy who can defend himself, but he didn't deduce that we're better than ManU, Chelsea and Spurs, he simply suggested that maybe we're a bit better than we (sometimes) give ourselves credit for.

We're certainly better than a random stranger would have thought had he stumbled upon this forum last Sunday.
 

Poor Scouser Tommy

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costared said:
O.K. here is a sobering thought. We have only played 5 matches against teams currently in the top half of the table and we have 7 points from the possible 15. Mid table stuff. We are great to watch against lower teams but struggle against teams that play a faster, more competitive style of football.

( that is of course middle of the top half which makes us top 6 but not top 4)
That's nowhere near sobering costared, it is encouraging:

- If we have 7 points from a possible 15 against top-half opponents, it means we're collecting 46.66% of the points available. Extrapolated over a season, assuming we play 9 other top-half opponents twice, we would have 25.2 points to our name.

- Having worked on the 5 games you mentioned, we're obviously left with 6 games, from which we've harvested 16 points, or 88.88% of the points that were available. Extrapolate that over 20 games against lower-half opponents and we'd have collected a quite impressive 53.33 points.

Using the scenario you've postulated, we'd end the season with 78 or 79 points.
 

Poor Scouser Tommy

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costared said:
;) Can't read a wind up can you mascot.No one is enjoying our skilful ,entertaining football more than I but some are getting a bit carried away. Yes, if we are still top 4 come January we can start getting really excited. Not sure my old ticker can stand it though.
Oh.

It would appear that I can't either. :rolleyes:

Somebody please find a face-palm emoticon for me.
 

OOTer

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When we finished 2nd we were top of the mini table of the top 4 teams. From all 6 games I think we took 13 points. Did the double over ManU and Chels and a win and draw vs Arsenal. Might be wrong tho; my old memory isn't what it once was. Not really sure how relevant that is either but it's out there now.

I always think we struggle against park the bus/counter teams and also against teams that press high and all over the pitch.

Looking at our results I would say the games we've got points are the ones where we've been allowed to play our own game. The ones where we've dropped points are games where we've not been given time on the ball to get our game going. Villa being the only one who had the potential to cause problems with their counter play and breaks that theory.

We haven't really come up against relegation threatened teams yet as those down there aren't fully in the thick of the battle yet. So if we are gonna struggle against the top and bottom teams then that hasn't happened yet if it is going to.

I'm pretty confident we now have the right set up(s) to handle anything that most teams can throw at us. Small changes to the 433 system seems to mean we can make big changes to our approach. This means the players should feel more comfortable in their roles as they are not being asked to drastically change their game week in week out. And then we have the 352 which also has tweeks and can be used if necessary.

The only teams I think we should he worring about are teams with the quality to beat us (Ars, ManU, ManCity, Spuds) and the systems to match us (Chels, Southampton, Ars). I don't think the mancs have the system to beat us so we just need to keep their quality quiet. And don't think Chels have the quality to hurt us but their system may mean they are hard to beat.
 

Mascot88

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Poor Scouser Tommy said:
Good fortune may have had a hand in the result, but Lady Luck hasn't always been kind to us.
The sending off against Newcastle certainly changed the game, but I don't view it as lucky. It's a correct application of the rules. Suarez was through on goal, the Newcastle defender pulled him back and he walked. As clear cut as those 'last man' situations are ever going to be.
 

costared

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Poor Scouser Tommy said:
Oh.

It would appear that I can't either. :rolleyes:

Somebody please find a face-palm emoticon for me.
My fault I should have put an emoticon on my post, I think it was a valid point really and we do need to be realistic but I did not want to spoil the current mood of euphoria. We all enjoy seeing LFC win.
 

Poor Scouser Tommy

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Mascot88 said:
The sending off against Newcastle certainly changed the game, but I don't view it as lucky. It's a correct application of the rules. Suarez was through on goal, the Newcastle defender pulled him back and he walked. As clear cut as those 'last man' situations are ever going to be.
I too agree that we weren't just lucky that an opposition player got sent off.

If I may elaborate: I mentioned that a bit of good fortune may have had a hand in the result and I was referring to a number of areas. One example would be that we struggled earlier on but we didn't commit too many infractions and didn't concede too many early goals while under pressure. As a result, when the chance came, we turned things around to a degree and snatched a well-deserved point.

You know how it is, sometimes you start badly, but then one or two brave passes find their mark and in a flash, you're staring three points in the face.

On other occasions, you're doing everything perfectly and suddenly- beachball. ;)
 

Poor Scouser Tommy

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costared said:
My fault I should have put an emoticon on my post, I think it was a valid point really and we do need to be realistic but I did not want to spoil the current mood of euphoria. We all enjoy seeing LFC win.
Indeed, we must never forget Poe's Law. :)

I understand and will also not allow my enthusiasm button to be turned any higher than "Level 6 - Cautiously Optimistic".
 

IrishRed

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It was an interesting weekend of results, in which Liverpool did their job in convincingly beating a poor Fulham side. Nevertheless, it was a good performance, well taken goals by Suarez and Skrtel, amongst others with fine displays.

Liverpool sit pretty in second place in the table at the moment, looking good to challenge for a top 4 finish this season. Out of the top teams we've played, we have lost one and won one. Tougher challenges await. But still a very good start to the season.

YNWA