Post match: Liverpool 4-1 Cardiff City (27/10/18 3pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lovren

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Moreno

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 15 9.9%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 11 7.2%
  • Lallana [off 61’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Salah [GOAL 10’]

    Votes: 81 53.3%
  • Firmino [off 71’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane [GOAL 65’, GOAL 86’]

    Votes: 19 12.5%
  • Shaqiri [on 61’, GOAL 85’]

    Votes: 25 16.4%
  • Milner [on 71’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    152

SBYM

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While I think he's falling well down the pecking order, I do feel sorry for Lallana. The rustiness resultant from missing so many games is clearly hampering him. While I don't think he's close to being a starter, he's a useful player to have in the squad, especially if he can get his touch back.

Calls to sell him are a bit wide of the mark at the moment.
Bingo.

All things being equal, he is not starting on the pitch (a fact I'm sure he is aware of), but I will rest much easier having him around. I just reckon he is worth far more to us than we would get for him.
 

Billy Biskix

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Bingo.

All things being equal, he is not starting on the pitch (a fact I'm sure he is aware of), but I will rest much easier having him around. I just reckon he is worth far more to us than we would get for him.
I doubt we'd get anything for him unless he can prove his fitness in which case we might want to keep him around anyway. Klopp gets a lecture on here every week about how he should be rotating the team, how players are exhausted etc and then when the changes are made there's a backlash because the players he picked aren't good enough.

If Lallana is starting against Arsenal next week then, yes, questions will need to be asked. He is miles off the pace. We can all see that and I'm sure JK can see it. But if he can cover when Keita is injured and Milner and Shaqiri's game time needs to be managed then he's still performing a useful job as far as I'm concerned. Likewise Moreno. He scares me to death defensively but Robertson can't play every game especially now he's Scotland captain. We also have to be careful with Gomez. He was a bit broken at the end of last season and it badly affected his form. Young lad, one very serious injury in his career already. This was also the right game to give him a rest and Lovren did an OK job against a team that offered basically no threat at all.
 

Mascot88

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VVD makes a mistake and it's all on Moreno and Lovren. Got to loove TIA. :-)
I’m not sure what the issue with Van Dijk is. When the ball is played across him he has to put something on it, and try and deflect it behind.

I was more annoyed with Lovren, daydreaming while the Cardiff lad ambles past him.
 

FilthyBloke

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Lovren and Moreno had decent games. If you scrutinise every goal we concede then somebody is always to blame.
Personally I think both of them had good games.
VVD makes mistakes sometimes. So does Allison. Our front three could have scored a dozen each but didn’t.

I don’t get why we need to find someone to be angry with after winning 4-1 and going 3 points clear.
 

Commando

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Lovren and Moreno had decent games. If you scrutinise every goal we concede then somebody is always to blame.
Personally I think both of them had good games.
VVD makes mistakes sometimes. So does Allison. Our front three could have scored a dozen each but didn’t.

I don’t get why we need to find someone to be angry with after winning 4-1 and going 3 points clear.
I know what you're saying and agree with it all. But, I came out of the ground fuming that we'd conceded. I wonder if other clubs fans are the same. All our goals are down to the mastery of our players, all goals conceded are down to mistakes.
 

eng.amohd

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I know what you're saying and agree with it all. But, I came out of the ground fuming that we'd conceded. I wonder if other clubs fans are the same. All our goals are down to the mastery of our players, all goals conceded are down to mistakes.
It is so easy to get switched off after 77 minutes of spectating a game against a 17th placed newly promoted side. I'd be fuming if we managed to bottle things up, or didn't score as much as we did. We scored 4 with minimal effort and performance, which I am happy about to be fair.

It is a whole different story against Arsenal though.
 

Hope in your heart

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2 major positives, the result and Salah finding his mojo again.
Apart from that, I think this was a pretty mediocre performance at best. The worse part is I think it is by design.

Last season, our front three played narrow. Firmino dripping deep, while Salah and Mane cutting inside. If either of them had the ball on the wings, the other two would close ranks. I have absolutely no idea where is Firmino playing. From the 4 goals scored, I don't think he was even in the box in any of them.
I don't have the stats, but it seemed that almost none of them came down the left side.
Lallana should play midfield not on the wings.

The switch to 4-2-3-1, made us more solid in the back, but also took away the our biggest offensive weapon.
This is no longer a case of our front three clicking, it the new system.
Firmino played a lot in central midfield, recycling balls and contributing to the pressing. He was the link between midfield and attack. As a result, he was of course less involved with the attacking moves than he is when he plays up top. Lallana had some sort of free role, while Mané and Salah clearly played up top. It wasn't really a three-pronged attack, especially as Lallana wasn't at 100% (only too normal after his long absence) and lacked the cutting edge on too many occasions. That changed when Shaqiri came on and added more pace, more strength and a better range of passes. We then clearly went to a three-pronged attack, and it's no coincidence that Firmino was shortly taken off after Shaqiri's introduction, in order to keep control over the game.

So, to answer your question: yes, a change of system has taken place, or rather, a change in mentality, which aims to get a better balance between attack and control of games. Last season, especially until January, and also the whole season before that, we were irresistible at times going forward, but also prone to concede the odd goal from a counter, as we were leaving space open at the back. We were also conceding a lot of goals towards the end of games because our players were knackered from all their efforts. It was the heavy metal football, all the time, without any ability to modulate the intensity.

But that has changed now, it's obvious. This season, it's all about accelerating the game when needed, but also about keeping the energy and doing the job without a fuss when leading and controlling a game. This will be a long, long season, and you can clearly see that everyone's focus is on the longer term. Even the way our lads (and Klopp) are celebrating their goals and wins displays an unusual calmness. They seem to know that every goal and every win is just one step towards their long-term target, and that they never must lose sight of it. It's very impressive to be honest, long may it continue.
 

costared

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Lovren and Moreno had decent games. If you scrutinise every goal we concede then somebody is always to blame.
Personally I think both of them had good games.
VVD makes mistakes sometimes. So does Allison. Our front three could have scored a dozen each but didn’t.

I don’t get why we need to find someone to be angry with after winning 4-1 and going 3 points clear.

Personally I thought Lovren was decent but not great. Gomez is far better these days. Moreno was IMO clearly our worst player.
 

costared

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Obviously should have sown it up sooner but in the end another decent win. Shaquiri was clearly an upgrade on Lallana who worked hard but wants to do to many turns every time he gets the ball.
 

costared

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You didn't watch Lallana then, did you?
I did watch Lallana closely . I thought he did noticeably better than Moreno who is so restricted with his passing due to being so one footed, but on the other hand I was not at all impressed with Lallana either. My heart sunk when I saw those two on the team sheet but I always try to keep an open mind and thought well, it is Cardiff. I feel both confirmed my original opinions .
 

pass_and_move

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Thought Liverpool played very well today, all the way through the team. Quality began to tell in the second half against a lively but limited Cardiff. Some stunning individual goals and assists - Shaqiri's strike was sublime as was Salah's pass through to Mane - world class! The thing that pleases me is that we aren't going into overdrive too soon. We've done enough in previous games to come away with the points, and against Red Star and Cardiff everything just seemed to click. It's going to be a long season so we're in a great position a third of the way in. We'll need something in reserve come March / April.
 

geebo

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I think we played very well. Time and again against such an opponent we would falter. But now we seem to have the attacking nous and the defensive solidity not to slip to a home defeat.

Its all about getting the best out of players and making them peak at the right time. They are not machines. I think the way Klopp has handled Fabinho has been brilliant and you see the reasons and results now ! sorry have to dash.... I think the reserve players who played was a good decision by Klopp even though lallana looks rusty... I dont think Salah ever lost his goal scoring skills, so I dont think t has returned !!! rather he is slowly getting started,the same as last year.
 
Last edited:

pass_and_move

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Salah should have had a blatant penalty but strangely the ref waved it away?
I guess the ref thought that putting your arms around someone and wrestling them to the ground from behind was well within the rules. Would have been a foul anywhere else on the pitch but not seemingly the penalty area.
 

FilthyBloke

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I know what you're saying and agree with it all. But, I came out of the ground fuming that we'd conceded. I wonder if other clubs fans are the same. All our goals are down to the mastery of our players, all goals conceded are down to mistakes.
I get that. It was annoying. But I think if we analyse more than just the goals we concede, but also slam the midfielders misplaced pass that could have lead to a goal conceded, or criticise the strikers for not killing the game off, or blame the manager for not making a sub moments before etc etc... we could be here all day, whilst ignoring all the massive positives that are staring back at us.
All goals conceded could have been prevented, in an ideal world at least, but every now and then one tiny mistake that might go unnoticed will lead to another mistake that could prove costly.

Just out of interest who was the player that gave the ball away to lead to their goal? Was it his fault or did another player not move into space for him in the first place? The butterfly effect in full swing.
Personally I was more than happy with the performance (granted I watched it on a crap stream). And even lallana I was happy with as atm it’s all about him building up fitness.
 
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I’m not sure what the issue with Van Dijk is. When the ball is played across him he has to put something on it, and try and deflect it behind.

I was more annoyed with Lovren, daydreaming while the Cardiff lad ambles past him.
There was nothing to be annoyed about.
VVD went too far over leaving too much space between him and Lovren. Cardiff exploited that and scored. In the sequence all 3 of Moreno, VVD and Lovren made errors however the dope exploited was VVD.
Also Becker was 'slow' getting down he could have done better, he didn't.
The fact that you are pointing a finger to get annoyed says it all. Let's face it Cardiff came out in the second half to score a goal (try to make it 1-1 thankfully Mané put that to bed).
 

shachart

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Firmino played a lot in central midfield, recycling balls and contributing to the pressing. He was the link between midfield and attack. As a result, he was of course less involved with the attacking moves than he is when he plays up top. Lallana had some sort of free role, while Mané and Salah clearly played up top. It wasn't really a three-pronged attack, especially as Lallana wasn't at 100% (only too normal after his long absence) and lacked the cutting edge on too many occasions. That changed when Shaqiri came on and added more pace, more strength and a better range of passes. We then clearly went to a three-pronged attack, and it's no coincidence that Firmino was shortly taken off after Shaqiri's introduction, in order to keep control over the game.

So, to answer your question: yes, a change of system has taken place, or rather, a change in mentality, which aims to get a better balance between attack and control of games. Last season, especially until January, and also the whole season before that, we were irresistible at times going forward, but also prone to concede the odd goal from a counter, as we were leaving space open at the back. We were also conceding a lot of goals towards the end of games because our players were knackered from all their efforts. It was the heavy metal football, all the time, without any ability to modulate the intensity.

But that has changed now, it's obvious. This season, it's all about accelerating the game when needed, but also about keeping the energy and doing the job without a fuss when leading and controlling a game. This will be a long, long season, and you can clearly see that everyone's focus is on the longer term. Even the way our lads (and Klopp) are celebrating their goals and wins displays an unusual calmness. They seem to know that every goal and every win is just one step towards their long-term target, and that they never must lose sight of it. It's very impressive to be honest, long may it continue.
Since we are both in agreement that the changes are by design, do you also agree with my conclusion : it is not a matter of our frint three not "clicking" as we all thought since the begining of the season, but rather this is the new Liverpool. The front three that has terrorized europe has been broken up.
 

Caradoc

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For me its simple. Klopp is trying to find more than one way to win matches. He wants us to become more unpredictable and he wants our game management to improve considerably. And he’s asking the players to learn and apply all this in live match situations. There is no easy way with Klopp, he’s extremely demanding and he expects to see positive results.

Firmino is still the axis around which our attacks take place. He needs to play right on the edge for a lot of what we do to come off. When he’s not quite on his game it shows and because so much of our play goes via him it makes him look particularly ineffective. We’re very lucky to have a player with Bobby’s skill set who can perform this important role. Its a big, big ask but he takes on the task unflinchingly. Right now it just ain’t quite happening for him, but its all about fine margins and it’ll click for him again before too long.

The double 6 tactic is working a treat because we have two top quality players who can perform that role in Gini and Fabinho. It then allows us the luxury of playing Shaqiri or Lallana. Again, it just isn’t happening for Lallana right now but we know from 2 seasons ago what he can bring to our side when he’s fully match fit. Klopp wouldn’t waste time on him if he didn’t feel that Lallana was good enough. The lad needs to get his match fitness and sharpness back. Whether there’s still going to be a place for him once Ox is back and Naby finds his form in the EPL remains to be seen but he’s already got a big challenge on his hands from Shaqiri that he’s currently losing.

I’ve seen massive improvements in every facet of our game since Klopp arrived. That tells me to trust him even when I’m not sure what he is doing or why he’s doing it at times.
 



Limiescouse

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And the Cardiff goal should have got chalked off for offside
It came to him from a fluffed clearance by VvD. That is not offside. It is also why criticisms of Lovren switching off are not fair. His positioning was appropriate for dealing with the ball that was cut back, the ball he was supposed to be concerned about. As a covering defender you cannot account for the ball going right through your CB partner.
 

jaffod

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It came to him from a fluffed clearance by VvD. That is not offside. It is also why criticisms of Lovren switching off are not fair. His positioning was appropriate for dealing with the ball that was cut back, the ball he was supposed to be concerned about. As a covering defender you cannot account for the ball going right through your CB partner.
What I don't get is the initial ball was meant for him and he'd strayed into an offside position to try and gain the advantage. The fact VVD got a touch on it shouldn't make any difference, the bloke was offside and the pass was aimed at him.
 

Limiescouse

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What I don't get is the initial ball was meant for him and he'd strayed into an offside position to try and gain the advantage. The fact VVD got a touch on it shouldn't make any difference, the bloke was offside and the pass was aimed at him.
Refs don't judge situations on what you want the rules to be though. You can argue that it isn't a reasonable way to apply the rule, but it was not offside given the way it is actually interpreted and applied.
 

Keegans Perm

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What I don't get is the initial ball was meant for him and he'd strayed into an offside position to try and gain the advantage. The fact VVD got a touch on it shouldn't make any difference, the bloke was offside and the pass was aimed at him.
Thats a good point, and one I cant get my head around either. If for instance, one of their strikers had a shot and it deflected off Van Dijk foot into Allison's hands, would that be deemed a passback? No. So therefore it should still be offside whether it touched Van Dijk or not.