POST MATCH: Liverpool 4-1 West Brom

mattyhurst

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Just got back from todays game, was our best performance this season, and we played for the full 90 save for 10 minutes around the goal, nice to see the team get composure back and then get the 4th goal.

Henderson was top draw, his pressing was excellent as was Lucas and the team in general, after last week were it was a struggle to pick a mom they all put in a shift today, was our best of the season and against a team who haven't been easy so far this season.

Suarez's goals were excellent and so was Sturridge.

Skrtel needs to watch that manhandling in the box mind, noticed it on every corner.
 

OOTer

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Mascot88 said:
So you don't like to consider chance we've created as a means of assessing chances we've created.

Yep, that makes sense...
'Consistently' is the key word. Would you be happy if the only chances we created were from crosses, knowing that our conversion rate was so low? Likewise. Would you be happy if the only goals we scored were from wonder strikes and we were unable to fashion clear cut chances?

Anyway. Lets see what rab comes up with. Remember not every cross leads to a chance. So the sarcasm isn't really appropriate.
 

Mascot88

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OOTer said:
'Consistently' is the key word. Would you be happy if the only chances we created were from crosses, knowing that our conversion rate was so low? Likewise. Would you be happy if the only goals we scored were from wonder strikes and we were unable to fashion clear cut chances?
That's a utterly ridiculous argument - we don't only create chances from crosses. Would I be happy if we only direct from goal kicks? Would I be happy if we only tried to score by bouncing the ball off the referee's arse?

I don't have the figures to hand, but we've scored quite a few of crosses, including two today and one last week. We're not hopeless at scoring off crosses.
 

rab

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OOTer said:
I may be wrong but I don't think there will be that many. Which is what I mean; we're not that good at scoring from crossing, compared to say the arial abilities of RVP, Rooney and JH for ManU. Hence why I don't like to rely on crosses as a means of us consistently creating chances.

If you could, while you're checking that out. Could you find out our crosses:chances:goals ratio?

Maybe it's only me but I want to see us creating clear goal scoring opportunities. The ones where you're happy to bet your house that most players would bury. So no matter how many passes led up to our 1st and last goal it was still individual ability that ultimatel led to us scoring.

I'm not meaning to be negative. Just wanna make my point so folks understand. If you disagree hairy muff. If you read my original post I did list some positives from today. Of which there were many more too.
I just think it's being overly negative. Two seasons ago we didn't score enough because we hit the woodwork a phenomenal amount of times. Last season we were fourth top scorers in the league despite only having Suarez as a striker until January. This season we're third top scorers.

I don't think chance creation is that major an issue. We rarely score from crosses so these goals must be coming from somewhere. You can't just put them down to individual brilliance when we're scoring this often.

In such a highly competitive league clear cut, put your house on it chances aren't that common, even amongst the best teams. Take the Palace vs Arsenal game today. Top versus second bottom. One of the best attacking teams in the league against relegation fodder and yet there weren't that many clear cut chances for Arsenal, even the Giroud goal at the end wasn't a nailed on chance.

Each to their own though. I'd rather bask in the joy of a solid win than try and find a fault.
 

OOTer

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Scoring from goal kicks and off the refs arse isn't really de rigour in football. And I think you're being facetious now. It wasn't an argument, it was a question.

If you don't understand what I'm trying to say I'm either failing to communicate properly or your just dumb. Hopefully its the former.
 

OOTer

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rab said:
I just think it's being overly negative. Two seasons ago we didn't score enough because we hit the woodwork a phenomenal amount of times. Last season we were fourth top scorers in the league despite only having Suarez as a striker until January. This season we're third top scorers.

I don't think chance creation is that major an issue. We rarely score from crosses so these goals must be coming from somewhere. You can't just put them down to individual brilliance when we're scoring this often.

In such a highly competitive league clear cut, put your house on it chances aren't that common, even amongst the best teams. Take the Palace vs Arsenal game today. Top versus second bottom. One of the best attacking teams in the league against relegation fodder and yet there weren't that many clear cut chances for Arsenal, even the Giroud goal at the end wasn't a nailed on chance.

Each to their own though. I'd rather bask in the joy of a solid win than try and find a fault.
You're right, clear cut chances are not the easy to come by in top leagues. But it is really so wrong to want more?

Like I said. Many positives to take from the game. But folks don't seem to get my point about chance creation so that's being banded about more.
 

Mascot88

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OOTer said:
Scoring from goal kicks and off the refs arse isn't really de rigour off football. And I think you're being facetious now. It wasn't an argument, it was a question.

If you don't understand what I'm trying to say I'm either failing to communicate properly or your just dumb. Hopefully its the former.
Your saying we don't score many off crosses, so you don't include any chances we create off crosses when considering how many chance we create.

I think that's utterly barmy, and very much likely your massaging the stats to suit your position.
 

Colin

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Loving our forward line, I really am.

That result with no Countinho is an amazing testament of how far we've come.

When was the last time we had two proper strikers? Fowler / Collymore etc? Exciting times.

Keep working hard boys!
 

slufsar

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ptt said:
Is they? Mate, I'd take a day or two off if I were you ;)
I'm not English and havent had English in school for three years now, so I have a perfect excuse.
 

abcd

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After the draw at Newcastle this was an important win ahead of the Arsenal game. WBA are no mugs so to deal with them so convincingly is pleasing. However, the team have gone through September and October without keeping a clean sheet. I really want to see Agger back in the side. That stat will have to change if the team hope to achieve their aims for the season. Having said that I thought the penalty was harsh. Skrtel was a bit lucky earlier in the game, a penalty conceded at that stage could have changed everything.

Arsenal away next weekend will give a fair indication of where the team is at.
 

Colin

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abcd said:
After the draw at Newcastle this was an important win ahead of the Arsenal game. WBA are no mugs so to deal with them so convincingly is pleasing. However, the team have gone through September and October without keeping a clean sheet. I really want to see Agger back in the side. That stat will have to change if the team hope to achieve their aims for the season. Having said that I thought the penalty was harsh. Skrtel was a bit lucky earlier in the game, a penalty conceded at that stage could have changed everything.

Arsenal away next weekend will give a fair indication of where the team is at.
A draw would be a good result IMO.

Really could go any way though and ive no doubt Arsenal are equally concerned about us.

Slighly worried about our midfield in that game. Need Lucas, Gerrard and Hendo all on the teamsheet IMO.
 

OOTer

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OK. So going through all our league goals this season now. This is my opinion so feel free to disagree. Gonna classify by individual skill, cross or team goal.

Lfc 1-0 Stoke : DS scores. Think Aspas got the assist. Shot goes through defender's (standing between goal and DS) legs.
INDIVIDUAL SKILL - great strike.

Lfc 1-0 Villa : DS scores. Coutinho lets ball run to DS who rounds one defender then keeper and difficult finish. Gonna veer to Individual skill but build up play contributed lots and most of DS work was around 6yrd box.
So a mix of both INDIVIDUAL SKILL and TEAM GOAL. (half a point each)

Lfc 1-0 ManU : DS scores. Corner to Agger to DS. CROSS

Lfc 2-2 Swansea : DS & Moses score. 1st) Shelvey back pass to Sturridge. Not team, not cross. Putting as INDIVIDUAL SKILL. 2nd) Shelvey passes direct to Moses who runs at defence and strikes from D. Four players closing or between goal. Not team. Not cross.
Putting as INDIVIDUAL SKILL.

Lfc 0-1 Southampton. No LfC goals. :(

Lfc 3-1 Sunderland : 1st) DS scores from SG corner. CROSS. 2nd) Suarez tap in from DS assist. DS cuts in from right side and plays ball across goal from inside penalty box. Not a cross for me, but some may disagree. TEAM GOAL. 3rd) Counter attack, Suarez plays ball high to left to DS who receives just inside box, cuts to byline and cuts back for Suarez to tap in. TEAM GOAL

LFC 3-1 Palace : 1st) Moses runs from R to L outside of box. Plays to Suarez. Exchanges passes with Enrique and Suarez taps in while falling. Element of individual skill as three players closing Suarez but going with TEAM GOAL. 2nd) Long ball out from defence. Not sure if Suarez gets a touch or goes over his head. DS turns inside out 3 times as defender backs off. Hits tight angle shot low into far corner. INDIVIDUAL SKILL. 3rd) Sterling fouled making run into box. Penalty SG scores. I'm not counting this one as any of them as when Sterling was foul it wasn't in a goal scoring opportunity.

Lfc 2-2 Newcastle : 1st) SG penalty. Gonna give this as INDIVIDUAL SKILL and TEAM GOAL (half a point each) for how Suarez won the penalty by getting in front of the defender and how it would have been a chance if no foul. But also for the ball to find him was top draw, even though not technically a 'team' goal.
2nd) Moses wide left turns inside, plays ball to Suarez who crosses from inside box for DS to head home. Gonna say TEAM GOAL over cross as it was on a plate and although in the air, was unchallenged and I generally class a cross as from outside the box.

LFC 4-1 West Brom : 1st) Suarez nutmegs and scores. INDIVIDUAL SKILL. 2nd) Cissokho crosses to LS. Despite the quality of the header and also how I feel the cross was not fully intended due to the challenge coming in I'm putting as a CROSS. 3rd) SG free kick, Suarez flicks home with head. CROSS.
4th) DS wins ball by himself, runs at defence. Sublime finish from outside box with defender closing from behind. INDIVIDUAL SKILL.

Tally:
Individual Skill - 7
Cross - 4 (of which 2 corners)
Team Goal - 5

So as of today. we've scored 17 goals. One I've not counted (pen). From the other 16, 7 (43%) are individual skills, 5 (~31%) are team goals and 4 (25%) are crosses (12.5% from open play and 12.5% from corners).

Make of that what you will. But I think it validates my opinion that most of our goals are from individual skill and that we do not score many from crosses.
 

VictoryInSight

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Colin said:
A draw would be a good result IMO.

Really could go any way though and ive no doubt Arsenal are equally concerned about us.

Slighly worried about our midfield in that game. Need Lucas, Gerrard and Hendo all on the teamsheet IMO.
That seems to be our best midfield trio - it just seems to work the best. I hope none of them get dropped in favour of Coutinho coming back into our starting lineup.
 

basil1492

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@ OOter, i think the point you're missing is that most of us don't care if it's individual skill or not. We have that individual (more than 1 as it happens) so if he scores then great. As mentioned, Barca don't moan about Messi scoring too many, Christ, a few years ago United won the league from mainly Ronaldos goals and he's held up as an hero of theirs so who cares if it's individual brilliance.
 

Clive

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Colin said:
Loving our forward line, I really am.

That result with no Countinho is an amazing testament of how far we've come.

When was the last time we had two proper strikers? Fowler / Collymore etc? Exciting times.

Keep working hard boys!
It's great having two strikers. They're combining really well and it gives the opposition a real headache. And if we lose one of them due to injury or whatever, we're still a threat, unlike previous eras where we've relied on a single player for goals.

My number one concern used to be goals from midfield, ie where are they going to come from. However with those two, we hardly need them! Number one concern now is simply playing in a formation which continues to allow them to keep doing what they do!
 

WellRedKev

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Best performance of the season we have been waiting for that a long time haha.

Everything clicked but the magic of Suarez yesterday was a joy to behold. He inspired the others with his brilliance. I broke into laughter at his second it was so good. Unbelievable hat trick and performance.

Lucas was very good in the holding role too, he deserves a special mention I thought. His passing was very positive too searching out the wing backs further up the pitch rather than backwards etc. tackling and interceptions too.

Did no one notice Henderson was poor? He gave away the ball countless times. It seemed to break down whenever he got involved in the play. Stray passes and over hit thru balls so he defo could be replaced or if not he needs to raise his game. Closing down and dummie runs are ok but not enough for me. He has been inpressive up until the Newcastle game but that's two very average performances in a row so he makes way for coutinho I reckon.

Sakho must have it written in his contract to win every aerial dual. He's class tiny bit sketchy in possession but I think we have a solid defender for many years in him.

The quality of the goals were out of this world. Seeing Sturridge mad keen for a goal and nearly scoring a hat trick himself if you count free kick and rattled crossbar is just so satisfying. What a front two lads. They could fire us into champions league these pair.

Coutinho threading in passes is just a mouth watering prospect. Arsenal next week will be massive test. Of we can sneak a result happy days but if we do slip up then how we bounce back will tell us all about this team. Heading into tough fixture territory. Batten down the hatches lads, its on like donkey kong!!!!
 

Joe90

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kwala said:
Suarez's header reminded me of Steve Nichols at Highbury in 1987!!

Oh the game was so slooooowwwwww back then.

It's almost quaint to watch the old games now. It's like they're walking.

The only glimpse you can see of the future IMO is 70s Ajax, who played at breakneck speed, even considering today's teams...
 

sanjing07

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OK. So going through all our league goals this season now. This is my opinion so feel free to disagree. Gonna classify by individual skill, cross or team goal.

Lfc 1-0 Stoke : DS scores. Think Aspas got the assist. Shot goes through defender's (standing between goal and DS) legs.
INDIVIDUAL SKILL - great strike.

Lfc 1-0 Villa : DS scores. Coutinho lets ball run to DS who rounds one defender then keeper and difficult finish. Gonna veer to Individual skill but build up play contributed lots and most of DS work was around 6yrd box.
So a mix of both INDIVIDUAL SKILL and TEAM GOAL. (half a point each)

Lfc 1-0 ManU : DS scores. Corner to Agger to DS. CROSS

Lfc 2-2 Swansea : DS & Moses score. 1st) Shelvey back pass to Sturridge. Not team, not cross. Putting as INDIVIDUAL SKILL. 2nd) Shelvey passes direct to Moses who runs at defence and strikes from D. Four players closing or between goal. Not team. Not cross.
Putting as INDIVIDUAL SKILL.

Lfc 0-1 Southampton. No LfC goals. :(

Lfc 3-1 Sunderland : 1st) DS scores from SG corner. CROSS. 2nd) Suarez tap in from DS assist. DS cuts in from right side and plays ball across goal from inside penalty box. Not a cross for me, but some may disagree. TEAM GOAL. 3rd) Counter attack, Suarez plays ball high to left to DS who receives just inside box, cuts to byline and cuts back for Suarez to tap in. TEAM GOAL

LFC
 

gingerbread

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I think we may see the same team next week. Then Coutinho will come in for Hendo later in second half.

I means Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge. These three literally can unlock most of standard EPL defense. If we lead, have the team sit deep and those three slightly up front will prevent Asernal to throw men forward. If they were leading us, the three are our only chance to come back to the game with their individual skills and creativity. Actually only when the game still draw, that when we have to keep the team balance with midfield three Gerrard-Hendo-Lucas. A bit worriedsome how Westbrome can keep threaten our goal last night. But BR now can take that into account and build up battle plan.

Furthermore, Asernal still have midweek game against Chelsea, and their first team should be a lot more tired than us. Came back from international duty, played Norwich, Dortmund, CP (with 10 men), Chelsea, and us. A game every 3 days to us every week. After our game, it will be crucial match against Dortmund in 4 days and away to OT next too.


They should be more worried than us. As if things fall nicely in, they will be out of League Cup, seriously fall behind to Dortmund and Napoli in CL, and 4 points behind us in the league in 2 weeks time.
 

NZred

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Can't really fault any of that. The clean sheet would have been nice, but the lino is a kunt.

I've been one of Lucas deserved detractors this season but he was awesome today. Henderson too, Fuck was there 2 of him on the field? Was absolutely everywhere.

Sturridge is reminding me a little of Fowler. Can be quiet and have one of those days where his touch deserts him a little bit and you start to think oh well suppose his form had to dip some time, then bam pulls out a special goal.
 

NZred

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WellRedKev said:
Best performance of the season we have been waiting for that a long time haha.
Everything clicked but the magic of Suarez yesterday was a joy to behold. He inspired the others with his brilliance. I broke into laughter at his second it was so good. Unbelievable hat trick and performance.
Lucas was very good in the holding role too, he deserves a special mention I thought. His passing was very positive too searching out the wing backs further up the pitch rather than backwards etc. tackling and interceptions too.
Did no one notice Henderson was poor? He gave away the ball countless times. It seemed to break down whenever he got involved in the play. Stray passes and over hit thru balls so he defo could be replaced or if not he needs to raise his game. Closing down and dummie runs are ok but not enough for me. He has been inpressive up until the Newcastle game but that's two very average performances in a row so he makes way for coutinho I reckon.
Sakho must have it written in his contract to win every aerial dual. He's class tiny bit sketchy in possession but I think we have a solid defender for many years in him.
The quality of the goals were out of this world. Seeing Sturridge mad keen for a goal and nearly scoring a hat trick himself if you count free kick and rattled crossbar is just so satisfying. What a front two lads. They could fire us into champions league these pair.
Coutinho threading in passes is just a mouth watering prospect. Arsenal next week will be massive test. Of we can sneak a result happy days but if we do slip up then how we bounce back will tell us all about this team. Heading into tough fixture territory. Batten down the hatches lads, its on like donkey kong!!!!
Fucking what? Henderson wasn't poor. Gave the ball away a few times but so be it. He was absolutely bloody everywhere which I think helped Lucas top. Notice he didn't give any dumb fouls? Cause more often than not it was him AND Henderson covering.
 

RaoulDuke

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That was a joy to watch!
And the second header from suarez, amazing!
Like DS' goal, great chip.

I hope the arsenal meltdown is going to start soon and we can keep up the good work.
Because arsenal won't win the title anway. If we don't, it'll be one of the manc clubs or chelsea.
Must not happen.
 

gingerbread

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Hendo did a similar role to a ball winning mdifield for us with his energy. Just do his part on attack, but halt their striker and really do break down their counter when we have to rush our men back. He do provide us that number advantage whenever we attack or defense from one end to the other.

Let be honest, no one in the team could do similar role. Maybe Allen, but he really need to get back to the team
 

Off_The_Heezay

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charleslee89 said:
The team has to focus......it seems our second half performance always taper off...Henderson's got to improve more like his decision-making and of course shooting.

There's one part that I am pretty worried about. It seems that west brom's strikers are always able to get behind our defenders for a sustained period of time. At the first half, anelka went close....At the second half, we had crosses peppering from all over the place from West brom. We were pretty lucky not to concede more...
You sound like the kind of person who apologises after sex. Lighten up a little, we won.
 

daggs001

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We look every bit a top 4 team when Lucas is fit and firing. He allows the players
in front of him so much more freedom when on form.
Im still convinced that structurally he is our most important player.
He looked a yard sharper today. May it well continue.
 

grooveshark

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Needed a win and a good performance, got both.

The team also put out a great 90 minutes, if this performance can be a benchmark for the rest of the season and the team plays like this for 70% of games then a top 4 challenge may well be sustained.

Suarez was also insane yesterday.