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Post-Match: Liverpool 4-3 Swansea

Miklo

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fcukManU said:
It also, in the long run, didn't work.

I read your comment and wondered how our points tally now compares to the push for the title in '08-09. We're four points off top after 27 games played. In '08-09 after 27 games played we were 10 points off top, but ended on a magnificent run of games which left us runners-up, four points behind United.


Hmm, interesting stuff...
We are a different team with different players, different manager and different tactics. I think in the long run Rodgers tactics can win us more then Rafas but that's cause I'm brought up believing in this style of play. My opinion but I love this and we are just starting in Rodgers era at this club.
 

Colin

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Agger needs to up his defensive game....as do all our defenders but he is VC and comes with a big rep which hasn't really been lived up to for some time now . Injuries etc haven't helped but the net result is he same. Our CB positions need some stability
 

Toro

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We've now won 20 of 24 points in the league in 2014 and have yet to lose in the EPL this calendar year.
 

Toro

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I agree we have to sort our back four, but who here genuinely believed we would be anywhere near the top with 11 matches to go?
 

Libero

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Obviously happy with the 3 points, but our defending was atrocious and I think BR needs share some responsibility on their behalf. While Johnson and Agger are better players than Toure and Cissokho over the last month or so they have built a solid partnership with Skrtel and Flannagan and have looked quite better defensively. Which is why I said in the pre-match thread that I believe it was tough on Cissokho being dropped, Toure I could understand, but making two changes to the back line (again) it showed in how bad we were.

Having said that, the midfield was non-existant until Allen came on and we were able to maintain a little bit of control. Too much space in between the lines, players ball watching, which heaped the pressure on the defence as well, stood off too much and Mignolet was not convincing at all.
 

anglian_red

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ptt said:
It also, in the long run, didn't work.
Well that depends on what you mean by 'work' doesn't it.

If it's the typical cheap shot of pointing out we never won the title with Rafa, well we haven't won anything at all with Brendan Rodgers who himself comes here with practically nothing on his CV. We won't win the title playing like this either so that's a non point.

I question whether it was ever realistic to win the title any time between 2004 and 2010. Remember Rafa arrived when Arsenal were literally invincible, Mourinho had just moved in to Stamford Bridge, the Sir Alex winning machine was in full flow & there we were. Handing Rafa Benitez a squad containing Djimi Traore & Salif Diao.
 

ptt

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anglian_red said:
Well that depends on what you mean by 'work' doesn't it.

If it's the typical cheap shot of pointing out we never won the title with Rafa, well we haven't won anything at all with Brendan Rodgers who himself comes here with practically nothing on his CV. We won't win the title playing like this either so that's a non point.

I question whether it was ever realistic to win the title any time between 2004 and 2010. Remember Rafa arrived when Arsenal were literally invincible, Mourinho had just moved in to Stamford Bridge, the Sir Alex winning machine was in full flow & there we were. Handing Rafa Benitez a squad containing Djimi Traore & Salif Diao.
A debate for another thread. I'll never make or take cheap shots at a brilliant manager in our fabulous history. He's gone though and like us all, he had his faults IMHO.
 

jimmydestiny

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On a number of occasions this season we have played Henderson Gerrard and Coutinho in the middle, when we get it right we obliterate the opposition but when it goes wrong like it did today and against Villa we struggle. Henderson and Coutinho both have a lot to answer for when things swing one way or the other. Often today both men found themselves ten to fifteen yards up the pitch from Gerrard while he tried to make a tackle as the last midfielder. We stretched ourselves to much in midfield and as a result were put numbered and picked off at times.
The last time it went wrong we lost but learned our lesson. Lets hope we get back to what we were doing well in midfield for the next few games.

BTW it was great to win today. Well done reds. Come on Suarez get back in the goals!! lol

It was great to see Spurs drop points and give us a cushion of sorts. When a loss does come I hope we show the sort of mental strength we showed to recover from twice giving away a commanding lead only to go on and win the game.
 

lovepool

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jimmydestiny said:
On a number of occasions this season we have played Henderson Gerrard and Coutinho in the middle, when we get it right we obliterate the opposition but when it goes wrong like it did today and against Villa we struggle. Henderson and Coutinho both have a lot to answer for when things swing one way or the other. Often today both men found themselves ten to fifteen yards up the pitch from Gerrard while he tried to make a tackle as the last midfielder. We stretched ourselves to much in midfield and as a result were put numbered and picked off at times.
The last time it went wrong we lost but learned our lesson. Lets hope we get back to what we were doing well in midfield for the next few games.
BTW it was great to win today. Well done reds. Come on Suarez get back in the goals!! lol
It was great to see Spurs drop points and give us a cushion of sorts. When a loss does come I hope we show the sort of mental strength we showed to recover from twice giving away a commanding lead only to go on and win the game.
Coutinho started on the left against Villa when we played what was basically a 424. Gerrard and Henderson were outnumbered in CM and thrn Coutinho moved inside
 

mattyhurst

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Good omen for next week is that Suarez has never gone more than 6 games without scoring for Liverpool.
 

TassieRed

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I'm glad we got the three points but saying that's all that matters is like saying that driving home drunk is OK because you didn't crash.

One day you will get wiped out. Which is how we are looking far too often nowadays.

Is it structural? Is it the players? According to BR post-match:

"Up until now we have got away with it (poor defending). It's not about coaching, the way we concede goals. The way we concede isn't structural, it is down to mistakes and decision making."

So basically, the players aren't good enough or just don't get it. And he ain't gonna change what he wants them to do anytime soon. Worrying times and over the shoulder looking for a lot of them. Which may not be a bad thing.

Personally, I can't wait for Lucas to come back. Which will please some and piss off others. Whatever. Say what you like about him but the kid knows how to screen the back four.

Little Joe Allen was a revelation when he came on. He needs to start I reckon. Or maybe he is super sub material? Ole Gunner style. Who knows. When he is on song he is pretty bloody good.
 

anglian_red

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Having now seen the goals, I don't think the defence is quite as bad as it sounds.

It should've been 4-1 today, Swansea got a couple of very cheap goals.

You can't do much about the Shelvey goal, he's a good player who we should've kept hold of. 21, good athlete, covers the ground and can score goals from midfield, but there we are. I see him scoring every time we play Swansea.

The second goal is a very cheap free kick. It stems from Skrtel being nervous on the ball, he hates being wide of the 18 yard box and always has done, remember when Downing destroyed him at the Riverside all those years ago? He's no better in a wide area now. I think it's a soft free kick but Skrtel gives the ref the option, the deflection is unfortunate but note how Mignolet was telling his defence to move higher. They didn't seem to listen.

The penalty is very soft, but again Skrtel gives the referee the option. Bony is nowhere near ever having control of the ball and he's fallen down very softly. You'd never get it at Old Trafford, let's put it that way.
 

yiannos33

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Some sloppy defensive mistakes,some bad calls from the ref,but most important we came
Away with 3 points. Nothing we can do with the officiating but we should address our defense
For our next games.
I have a feeling that Suarez will end his current slump,and bang a few goals at Southampton.
 

Dr_J

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That is a massive result, especially with Spurs losing to Norwich.

I didn't think our defense was that bad myself to be honest. First, great goal from Jonjo. Yes, there is certainly things we could have done to prevent that, but you have to give him credit. Second goal is a joke of a decision to give the kick, Johnson is caught napping and then we get a god awful deflection. The third one is really ridiculous. I'm not even sure what Skrtel is trying to accomplish there... and beyond that, I don't even understand why the ref has given that.

I didn't really think our back four was that bad today. We were getting caught out at times because Henderson and Coutinho seemed to want to go for the jugular inside of 30 minutes. Leaving Gerrard, Agger and Skrtel essentially alone is always going to cause some problems. Coutinho also gave the ball away in some bad positions but I thought our back four did a nice job recovering after the silly give-a-ways.

I really don't mind that style of football against teams that we are clearly better than. An open game is always advantage to us with the attacking players we have in our squad. So what if we leak a couple goals here and there to smaller clubs. Our defensive tactics are entirely different against the bigger clubs. We don't play a team that is going to willingly push bodies forward every game, so to draw them into an open game is not necessarily a bad thing for me.

3 points is all that matters in the end. That gap between us and Spurs is just a beautiful thing to look at. Keep going, and put even more pressure on the league leaders.
 

icemanwan

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BR post match regarding our defensive mistakes and decision making is looking at over a few matches which accumulated till today and still not fixed. The way we play today with Jordan and Coutinho high in midfield leaving G alone left him exposed especially to Jonjo Shelvey's runs who easily drifts away from G and gets into very dangerous positions. Shelvey's goal highlighted this.

the 2nd goal from their free kick was unlucky for Skrtel, how can ye defend a deflection off yer shoulder. As for the third pen decision, we know Skrtel has gotten away with those body wrestling maneuvre previously but not this time.

The results is all that matters tho and our attack has been phenomenal. 12 goals from 3 matches. Delighted to see Sterling creating a pass ala Coutinho to Sturridge and it shows how our young stars will benefit from working and playing with skill players like Cou and Suarez. Suarez again the team player allowing Sturridge and others to score goals off of him. He is due a goal tho and today was unlucky not to get on the scoresheet.

With Spurs losing to Norwich, the pressure for fourth has eased a bit and should see us pushing to catch the leaders. Go go red men YNWA.
 

anglian_red

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Dr_J said:
So what if we leak a couple goals here and there to smaller clubs. Our defensive tactics are entirely different against the bigger clubs.
So what?

If we hadn't leaked multiple goals against Swansea, Newcastle & Everton (all games where we scored more than once) we'd currently be top of the league, 2 points and a superior goal difference ahead of Chelsea, with both Mourinho's men and City still to play.

That's why it's a bit more important than 'so what.' If we'd won at the KC instead of turning in a total shocker and avoided defeat against Southampton, the league title would be as wrapped up as it can be in February.

In terms of minutes-per-goal, two of the best six players in Europe are Liverpool players. Daniel Sturridge is scoring more often than Cristiano Ronaldo. This is a massive gift which we have wasted. I know 'the target was always fourth' but these errors appear to have cost us the title and heads should roll for it.
 

naturalskill

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just watched hendo's celebration again for the 4th goal...just love the lad's celebrations...totally awesome! and funny too!
 

grooveshark

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Think it is quite clear where problems lie and what needs sorting in the summer.

It is the defense, and BR has to bring in a defensive coach and better players at the back. It is ludicrous to expect that a team score upwards of three goals to guarantee wins.

Sturridge? Different gravy.
 

WellRedKev

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Good three points and we won but jesus the goalie, defence and midfield had a mate today to be honest.

Only for our ability to score goals for fun we d be in dire straits.

Attack attack attack! New shout from the kop could be defend defend defend haha.

Still another win another thrilling 90 mins!!

Ynwa
A mare***
 

anglian_red

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Rodgers' backroom team is intriguing because he's brought his team from Swansea, which is understandable but also a bit silly. Liverpool are not Swansea, the two jobs are not comparable in any way, Rodgers would be well served having someone who's been around LFC on his staff. Rafa Benitez kept hold of Sammy Lee & Alex Miller for example.

I don't know who Colin Pascoe is, but I'd rather see someone like Didi Hamann as the assistant manager. Somebody with a small slice of managerial experience who's a long time follower of the club and a great servant. Defensive midfielders like him tend to be good organisational coaches as well.
 

RedSeven

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rippedshorts said:
Who was responsible for the 2nd goal?
Wasn't Gerrard supposed to deal with Bony?
Glen was marking him but let him get away leaving him with a free header.
 

Redbelly

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Watched the game and then re-watched the highlights. It is obvious our attack is lethal.

We seriously need some defensive coaching. On Shelvey's goal, it was a heck of a strike, but Henderson and Flanagan were lost. Flanagan was dropping to help Skrtel with Bony and Henderson was thinking about sliding back too. Don't know enough but it seems one of them could have stepped out to Shelvey, but they were both backing up.

On Bony's deflected header, Johnson got screened off and just completely gave up. You can't give a player like that a free header.

The penalty was correct in my mind, Skrtel finally got called on his mugging defensive technique on set plays.

Honestly think these guys are good footballers, but the team doesn't seem to have the same positional awareness or decisiveness in defense as we do in attack. To me that says the coaching is not sound in this department.

As for Suarez. He may not have scored, but his assist to Sturridge was nice. Also, on our final goal, he brought down the long ball from Stevie (great pick out by the captain) marvelously. Without him, the other players would not get the space or service we're currently seeing.

For the upcoming tough away games, I definitely think BR should consider Allen in for Coutinho. Coutinho is stronger than he appears, but his work rate, ability to win the ball back, and defensive game overall does not match Allen's.

The back four is a conundrum. Johnson gives us much more attacking verve than Cissokho, but defensively? On the other hand, Flannagan and Cissokho don't offer much going forward (to be fair Flanno has improved in this area immensely.) Then the CB pairing is another enigma. Glad I'm not making the decisions, cause I honestly don't know who I'd start. I'd probably look at the opposition's attack and pick horses for courses: big strong striker then I'd go with Toure over Agger, and maybe bring Aly back in. I'd put Johnson on the side where the opposition has the most pace, he can attempt to push them back and has more pace himself, as both he and Flanno can cover LB or RB. But then that brings up the problem of lack of consistency due to chopping and changing.

Finally, Mignolet simply does not come off his line enough for me. I'm not asking for a Lloris type that comes bombing out of the box, but when three different CBs give you grief for not even coming out to balls deep in your box, then there is a problem.

The last stretch of the season is going to be a battle, hopefully these tough games will give the team confidence in their ability to overcome obstacles.
 

Semmy

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rippedshorts said:
Who was responsible for the 2nd goal?
Wasn't Gerrard supposed to deal with Bony?
whomever is tasked with marking assignments is responsible for that goal. Johnson should not be marking Bony, either Skrtel or Agger should have him tied up.

One of the CB have to take charge of that back line, its a shambles.

Stevie was chasing high on the press. Not a fan of such a high press. Wait til the pitch compresses into the middle 3rd and then apply pressure, force them back.

SG's worst game in a while for me, was gash today at tracking runners
 

gasband

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I think whether Gerrard or Lucas has been in front of the back four, we have leaked goals, so its not a matter of whether Gerrard or Lucas is better at the DM role, both are not the best you can have in that role. Yesterday the commentator made a right observation in that Gerrard is always attracted to the ball, that is his instincts but as a result he left Shelvey very open. Shelvey basically have a free run everytime onto the middle of the field into the final third with no one tracking him and in his role, Shelvey should have been tracked by Gerrard, the most defensive of the midfield trio.

Overall I think our defensive woes cannot be confined to the defence but still the defenders have to take the most blame for all the goals we conceded. Something has to be done but we cannot do it now in terms of personnel. The most important thing now is to drill a mentality that RESULTS matter over everything else for the next 11 games. You can play like shite for all we care, but if we win, we will live another day and we will correct the problems in the summer. If we try to over analyse the weaknesses with the players too much, it might take the concentration or focus from getting a result or they will be too afraid to try things and be restricted in their play.
 

Semmy

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gasband said:
I think whether Gerrard or Lucas has been in front of the back four, we have leaked goals, so its not a matter of whether Gerrard or Lucas is better at the DM role, both are not the best you can have in that role. Yesterday the commentator made a right observation in that Gerrard is always attracted to the ball, that is his instincts but as a result he left Shelvey very open. Shelvey basically have a free run everytime onto the middle of the field into the final third with no one tracking him and in his role, Shelvey should have been tracked by Gerrard, the most defensive of the midfield trio.

Overall I think our defensive woes cannot be confined to the defence but still the defenders have to take the most blame for all the goals we conceded. Something has to be done but we cannot do it now in terms of personnel. The most important thing now is to drill a mentality that RESULTS matter over everything else for the next 11 games. You can play like shite for all we care, but if we win, we will live another day and we will correct the problems in the summer. If we try to over analyse the weaknesses with the players too much, it might take the concentration or focus from getting a result or they will be too afraid to try things and be restricted in their play.
last time I checked, there are 10 players on the pitch and all have their own set of defensive responsibilities. Some greater than others, but nonetheless all play a part.