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Post-Match: Liverpool 4-3 Swansea

rippedshorts

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Semmy said:
whomever is tasked with marking assignments is responsible for that goal. Johnson should not be marking Bony, either Skrtel or Agger should have him tied up.

One of the CB have to take charge of that back line, its a shambles.

Stevie was chasing high on the press. Not a fan of such a high press. Wait til the pitch compresses into the middle 3rd and then apply pressure, force them back.

SG's worst game in a while for me, was gash today at tracking runners
It seems to me SG was pretty much napping during that set piece. He stood there watching the ball, when he should have picked someone to mark.
 

kopite1982

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Just watched the highlights yet again & my god skrtel was bloody awful. To say he has been our best defender this season goes to show how shit the rest have been. Agger looked pissed off being taken off pretty early to be fair but he to was poor. Im hoping llori is ready to start next season with sakho? Or am i just being desperate ?
 

Semmy

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rippedshorts said:
It seems to me SG was pretty much napping during that set piece. He stood there watching the ball, when he should have picked someone to mark.
only ones who followed their "mark" was Flanno and Skrtel. Agger and Johnson lost in the clouds.

Sad thing is, we had numbers there.
 

Dr_J

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anglian_red said:
So what?

If we hadn't leaked multiple goals against Swansea, Newcastle & Everton (all games where we scored more than once) we'd currently be top of the league, 2 points and a superior goal difference ahead of Chelsea, with both Mourinho's men and City still to play.

That's why it's a bit more important than 'so what.' If we'd won at the KC instead of turning in a total shocker and avoided defeat against Southampton, the league title would be as wrapped up as it can be in February.

In terms of minutes-per-goal, two of the best six players in Europe are Liverpool players. Daniel Sturridge is scoring more often than Cristiano Ronaldo. This is a massive gift which we have wasted. I know 'the target was always fourth' but these errors appear to have cost us the title and heads should roll for it.
Well we can sit here and say, what if we didn't concede in random games but so can Chelsea, Arsenal and City. You can say we have two of the best players in Europe, but we don't have the dominant, high profile superstars that these other squads have in midfield. This team is very close to title quality. In fact, were 4 points from the top with an excellent goal differential. Our squad is on the up while City and Arsenal have pretty much reached full potential. This is the first time in years that were in the conversation, so I would say you should lower your head chopping ax. Especially since it's impossible to make any changes at the moment.

By the way, at the KC and against Southampton, we played very cagey matches and lost 1-0 both times. Not exactly the open and free flowing football that has been getting us results in the past couple of weeks.
 

Arminius

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Two interesting elements about that game:

1) The defensive players ranged from unconvincing to poor, definitely not a best outing. Suarez had a good game, but off his peak. Coutinho was quiet. Sterling faded, although he was very effective in the first half and nailed an outside foot assist that is a testament to the virtue of playing with players better than you - no way he sets Sturridge up like that without the influence of Suarez and Coutinho. So that leaves the midfield. The remarkable thing is that the two key figures on the day, Allen and Henderson, are two of the most maligned players at the club.

2) I have to give Rodgers credit for game management, not sure about the Moses substitution, but the Allen-Sterling one was impressive. It is one thing to replace a player who is having an off day, but Sterling wasn't. His game was just not doing what needed to be done, and Allen brought that.

I have to wonder if we are going to see more of that - a fast attacking configuration to get the lead, then a midfield control version of the side that still attacks, but works to control the center of the park and builds pressure.
 

pagasp

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I think we have been exposing our back four far too easily all season - for two reasons; our midfield lacks pace, when we lose the ball and our opponents get the drop on our midfield they struggle to affect the game from there - they don't seem to have the pace to catch up/close down quickly enough. Hendo has a phenomenal engine but he isn't the quickest, same with Gerrard and *Lucas. This leads to us to conceding a lot of space and hence, pressure on our back four and individual mistakes are more likely - obviously having an unsettled back four and injuries to our better defenders doesn't help. Cout and Sterling's pressing have helped big time in this regard recently.

The second reason, I think, is the fact that we play a massively expansive attacking game. We really were throwing an awful lot of bodies forward today and this adds to the first problem above. The goals are nice though!

*On Lucas, I hate to say it but as soon as he picked up that injury (the big one) I thought, please come back 100%, because I know that this is not always the case with that knee injury. He hasn't looked the same player since he came back, not as quick, almost as if he's been carrying an injury. When he picked up a knock the other day I was almost happy thinking that he might come back his old (boss) self after getting rid of any recovery teething problems. Here's praying..

Sakho and Agger are our best two imo and I would not be looking to get rid of Agger tbh. What we really need is a Mascherano!

Regardless, we are winning and winning like champions - if we win next week anything is possible - two away in a row would be a big plus at this stage of the season.
 

Semmy

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Winning like champions doesn't normally include leaking 3 goals to a team like Swansea.
 

Arminius

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pagasp

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Arminius said:
Two interesting elements about that game:

1) The defensive players ranged from unconvincing to poor, definitely not a best outing. Suarez had a good game, but off his peak. Coutinho was quiet. Sterling faded, although he was very effective in the first half and nailed an outside foot assist that is a testament to the virtue of playing with players better than you - no way he sets Sturridge up like that without the influence of Suarez and Coutinho. So that leaves the midfield. The remarkable thing is that the two key figures on the day, Allen and Henderson, are two of the most maligned players at the club.

2) I have to give Rodgers credit for game management, not sure about the Moses substitution, but the Allen-Sterling one was impressive. It is one thing to replace a player who is having an off day, but Sterling wasn't. His game was just not doing what needed to be done, and Allen brought that.

I have to wonder if we are going to see more of that - a fast attacking configuration to get the lead, then a midfield control version of the side that still attacks, but works to control the center of the park and builds pressure.
Agreed - we are only going in one direction and that is continued improvement - just a matter of the time to get one or two more in and get the team more honed. Rodgers has definitely opened his eyes as regards game management - he knows that has to be drilled into players and he'll even take the odd risk to make sure it happens. Those subs today also acted as a message to the players - you are professionals lads sort it out! The key is getting a decent play-football/game management balance, hopefully heavily weighted toward the former. Mourinho is a game management genius but god there's a lot of anti-football involved - they pulled every trick in the book against us.
 

sportbilly1966

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Defuz said:
Were you watching a replay of some other game? Luis was either out wide or a withdrawn forward if central, not 'in the middle' like legalalien was suggesting.
From the start Suarez was central with Sturridge on the right and Sterling left, however they did interchange
 

pagasp

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Semmy said:
Winning like champions doesn't normally include leaking 3 goals to a team like Swansea.
See the Mancs constantly coming back over the years to win. Leaking goals to the likes of Villa and then eventually sneaking the win. Every title winning side will have a few games like that through out the season. Two great wins against Fulham and Swansea where we would probably have lost those games last season.
 

Semmy

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Arminius said:
http://www.manutd.com/en/Fixtures-And-Results/Match-Reports/2012/Dec/reading-v-manchester-united-premier-league-report.aspx

From a coaching point of view, when you are in a stretch run to the end of the season, there is not much more useful from a losing game you happened to take 3 points from.
We are not chasing a title. We are trying to get a CL spot with a leaky defense.

ManU didn't win the title that year. ManCity did.

We can still end up in a Europa spot. Easily. I am optimistic we can still pull a top 3 position but BR needs to shore up the defense.
 

Arminius

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Semmy said:
We are not chasing a title. We are trying to get a CL spot with a leaky defense.

ManU didn't win the title that year. ManCity did.

We can still end up in a Europa spot. Easily. I am optimistic we can still pull a top 3 position but BR needs to shore up the defense.
Well, no. That was December 2012. ManU won the title last year, it was in all the papers. Thanks for playing.

City did however need a last minute goal to win 3-2 at QPR to win their title...not 4-3, granted, but most champions have a scrappy win or two on the CV somewhere.
 

sportbilly1966

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charleslee89 said:
Is it me or was allen the only midfielder to put a tackle in cleanly and win the ball nicely?
But he's too small :)
charleslee89 said:
Is it me or was allen the only midfielder to put a tackle in cleanly and win the ball nicely?
But he's too small :)
charleslee89 said:
Is it me or was allen the only midfielder to put a tackle in cleanly and win the ball nicely?
But he's too small :)
charleslee89 said:
Is it me or was allen the only midfielder to put a tackle in cleanly and win the ball nicely?
But he's too small :)
charleslee89 said:
Is it me or was allen the only midfielder to put a tackle in cleanly and win the ball nicely?
But he's too small :)
 

Semmy

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Arminius said:
Well, no. That was December 2012. ManU won the title last year, it was in all the papers. Thanks for playing.
Dammit, UK does dates with month 2nd. You are right, Reading should have been the clue it was last season. I read 01/12/12 as Jan 12, 2012.

Point taken, and a good one at that
 

Uberkoen

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I don't understand what all the complaining is about. Yeah, we have a leaky defense but our attack is good enough to win us games like this. I'd like 4-3 all day long. I don't care. As long as we keep winning, its all good.

You can make excuses all you want but honestly, I've been saying this for over a month now that 4th is secured and I'd even place my bets on 3rd since I know Arsenal will drop a lot of points in March. Why are we scared to consider ourselves title contenders? We might not win it but we sure as hell are in it with a shout and we are challenging for it. We can be a game changer in the premier league race this season.

Let's not underestimate ourselves. We're bloody brilliant and we've been showing that all season long.

I'm happy to say it and I'll say it out loudly. "My Liverpool are challenging for the title this season and we have a chance to win it. We're only 4 points behind the leaders"

Fuck you and your jinxes.
 

sportbilly1966

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bes said:
3 changes in the D from the usual...

Agger ahead of Kolo
flanno swap sides
Cissokho removed

I thought Suarez had a terrible game today. Kept losing possession pointlessly.
Coutinho was quiet and didnt put much defensive work in our own half.
Skrtel/Agger did terrible against Bony. Agger failed to mark him on the set piece... Skrtel giving the PK showing he doesnt trust Agger to clear
Mignolet was horrible and Im gonna say it again, hes not the answer at GK, presence isnt something you grow in hes terrified to leave his line and the defenders were constantly on his ass for not coming out + that handball when he went past the box.

Hendo/Sturridge shined and Allen did well in his cameo.
I actually thought the same as you that Agger had lost Bony but the replay showed Glenn Johnson that lost him.
bes said:
3 changes in the D from the usual...

Agger ahead of Kolo
flanno swap sides
Cissokho removed

I thought Suarez had a terrible game today. Kept losing possession pointlessly.
Coutinho was quiet and didnt put much defensive work in our own half.
Skrtel/Agger did terrible against Bony. Agger failed to mark him on the set piece... Skrtel giving the PK showing he doesnt trust Agger to clear
Mignolet was horrible and Im gonna say it again, hes not the answer at GK, presence isnt something you grow in hes terrified to leave his line and the defenders were constantly on his ass for not coming out + that handball when he went past the box.

Hendo/Sturridge shined and Allen did well in his cameo.
I actually thought the same as you that Agger had lost Bony but the replay showed Glenn Johnson that lost him.
 

Semmy

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Uberkoen said:
I don't understand what all the complaining is about. Yeah, we have a leaky defense but our attack is good enough to win us games like this. I'd like 4-3 all day long. I don't care. As long as we keep winning, its all good.

You can make excuses all you want but honestly, I've been saying this for over a month now that 4th is secured and I'd even place my bets on 3rd since I know Arsenal will drop a lot of points in March. Why are we scared to consider ourselves title contenders? We might not win it but we sure as hell are in it with a shout and we are challenging for it. We can be a game changer in the premier league race this season.

Let's not underestimate ourselves. We're bloody brilliant and we've been showing that all season long.

I'm happy to say it and I'll say it out loudly. "My Liverpool are challenging for the title this season and we have a chance to win it. We're only 4 points behind the leaders"

Fuck you and your jinxes.
I want the same thing you do, no reason to throw f-bombs at me because I am nervous about our chances right now.

Jinxes? I am not superstitious. Not my fault if you are
 

mattyhurst

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Thing is MOTD2 had a little montage a lot of our goals come from errors by ourselves, organisation a lot of the time won't solve the issues we are having.

Actually I remember it against quite a few sides this season in which their only chances come from us being sloppy.

90 seconds to go you hold it out wide we have some of the best forwards at keeping hold of the ball and yet they try for another, which can been seen in the build up to Gerrard's effort that had every chance of being a break for Swansea.

Suarez could wind down a clock by himself but it seems impossible for them to do so.
 

Semmy

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mattyhurst said:
Thing is MOTD2 had a little montage a lot of our goals come from errors by ourselves, organisation a lot of the time won't solve the issues we are having.

Actually I remember it against quite a few sides this season in which their only chances come from us being sloppy.

90 seconds to go you hold it out wide we have some of the best forwards at keeping hold of the ball and yet they try for another, which can been seen in the build up to Gerrard's effort that had every chance of being a break for Swansea.

Suarez could wind down a clock by himself but it seems impossible for them to do so.
Speaking of, was nice to see StevieG ring a shot off the poat. Wish he would do that more often. Still has a brilliant shot
 

grooveshark

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Uberkoen said:
I don't understand what all the complaining is about. Yeah, we have a leaky defense but our attack is good enough to win us games like this. I'd like 4-3 all day long. I don't care. As long as we keep winning, its all good.

You can make excuses all you want but honestly, I've been saying this for over a month now that 4th is secured and I'd even place my bets on 3rd since I know Arsenal will drop a lot of points in March. Why are we scared to consider ourselves title contenders? We might not win it but we sure as hell are in it with a shout and we are challenging for it. We can be a game changer in the premier league race this season.

Let's not underestimate ourselves. We're bloody brilliant and we've been showing that all season long.

I'm happy to say it and I'll say it out loudly. "My Liverpool are challenging for the title this season and we have a chance to win it. We're only 4 points behind the leaders"

Fuck you and your jinxes.
The defence is leaking a tonne of goals, the attacks is scoring a tonne of goals.

The biggest issue comes up when the attack doesnt show up, in those games you need the defense to carry you, and there isnt that confidence that that can happen.

The two top teams in the league have the most clean sheets, United with their championship teams usually relied a lot on keeping it tight at the back. I think that there is a lesson to be taken from teams that have gone on to win it all.

The football is great going forward, but there needs to be balance. I think fans are over the moon that three points were the outcome, but also looking at the fact that the team has been conceding a lot.

I for one dont think that that is unreasonable. You keep your strengths and work to minimize weaknesses........that is the path to greatness.
 

Arminius

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Semmy said:
Dammit, UK does dates with month 2nd. You are right, Reading should have been the clue it was last season. I read 01/12/12 as Jan 12, 2012.

Point taken, and a good one at that
My broader point was that we won't be complacent going to Southampton, and I think that is what matters. I don't think a title is in the cards this season, but I thought we would be a close 6th this season. Defensive play is an obvious area of improvement, but as long as we keep sprinting to the May finish line, I will be content enough if we improve it next season.
 

sportbilly1966

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bes said:
3 changes in the D from the usual...

Agger ahead of Kolo
flanno swap sides
Cissokho removed

I thought Suarez had a terrible game today. Kept losing possession pointlessly.
Coutinho was quiet and didnt put much defensive work in our own half.
Skrtel/Agger did terrible against Bony. Agger failed to mark him on the set piece... Skrtel giving the PK showing he doesnt trust Agger to clear
Mignolet was horrible and Im gonna say it again, hes not the answer at GK, presence isnt something you grow in hes terrified to leave his line and the defenders were constantly on his ass for not coming out + that handball when he went past the box.

Hendo/Sturridge shined and Allen did well in his cameo.
I actually thought the same as you that Agger had lost Bony but the replay showed Glenn Johnson that lost him.
 

Uberkoen

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Semmy said:
I want the same thing you do, no reason to throw f-bombs at me because I am nervous about our chances right now.

Jinxes? I am not superstitious. Not my fault if you are
lol.

That was not targeted at you specifically. A lot of people are hesitant at admitting that we're challenging for the title and most just don't talk about it because they think it'll jinx it.

I mean I understand that we might not be capable of winning it but we've got 11 games to go and we're 4 points behind the leaders with them to play at Anfield still. If that's not competing for the title then honestly, I don't know what is.
 

pagasp

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Uberkoen said:
I don't understand what all the complaining is about. Yeah, we have a leaky defense but our attack is good enough to win us games like this. I'd like 4-3 all day long. I don't care. As long as we keep winning, its all good.

You can make excuses all you want but honestly, I've been saying this for over a month now that 4th is secured and I'd even place my bets on 3rd since I know Arsenal will drop a lot of points in March. Why are we scared to consider ourselves title contenders? We might not win it but we sure as hell are in it with a shout and we are challenging for it. We can be a game changer in the premier league race this season.

Let's not underestimate ourselves. We're bloody brilliant and we've been showing that all season long.

I'm happy to say it and I'll say it out loudly. "My Liverpool are challenging for the title this season and we have a chance to win it. We're only 4 points behind the leaders"

Fuck you and your jinxes.
No problem with that - one problem regarding the title is Chelsea's run-in, it looks decidedly easier than the rest. Arsenal's run-in looks horrendous, we have a great chance of finishing ahead of them and who knows for the title. We need to give Citeh and the Chavs the justice they deserve at Anfield.

Don't get me wrong on my previous couple of posts - I'm absolutely over the moon here - we're in an awesome spot and have been brilliant all season.
 

sportbilly1966

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Defuz said:
A lack of a defensive leader in the middle. I haven't seen two of our center backs play consistently well together all year, and I have no confidence in that area. Accordingly, I think the team plays the same way, and our central defenders play scared of making mistakes which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy which other teams are consistently exploiting.
I felt Kolo & Agger were very solid at the beginning of the season
Defuz said:
A lack of a defensive leader in the middle. I haven't seen two of our center backs play consistently well together all year, and I have no confidence in that area. Accordingly, I think the team plays the same way, and our central defenders play scared of making mistakes which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy which other teams are consistently exploiting.
I felt Kolo & Agger were very solid at the beginning of the season
Defuz said:
A lack of a defensive leader in the middle. I haven't seen two of our center backs play consistently well together all year, and I have no confidence in that area. Accordingly, I think the team plays the same way, and our central defenders play scared of making mistakes which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy which other teams are consistently exploiting.
I felt Kolo & Agger were very solid at the beginning of the season
 

sportbilly1966

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Defuz said:
A lack of a defensive leader in the middle. I haven't seen two of our center backs play consistently well together all year, and I have no confidence in that area. Accordingly, I think the team plays the same way, and our central defenders play scared of making mistakes which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy which other teams are consistently exploiting.
I felt Kolo & Agger were very solid at the beginning of the season
 

RedSouthIndian

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Got out of the Woods!! Very unconvincing win against an opponent who have been struggling to score away from home throughout this season. It made me edgy....very nervy!! The fact that Swansea were coming off a mid week EL game did help. Once the forth goal was scored by Hendo, their morale evaporated and they looked physically drained going into the last 10 minutes. Anyways, nothing matters more than 3 points and the fact that both Bluenoses and Spurs lost makes these three points even more special.

I agree with most here who say that the defensive fragility need to be seriously addressed sooner than later. While Shelvey's goal was well taken, it should be noted that Dyer who set that up was allowed to run across the face of the 20 yard box without being challenged. The second Swansea goal was a bit unfortunate while the Penalty conceded by Skrtel had been coming for a long time now. Both goals against Fulham last week were defensive howlers. Gerrard conceded a needless penalty in that famous Anfield win while at the Emirrates for the FA Cup, Ox Chamberlin just whizzed past Agger to set Poldolski up for the second which ultimately turned out to be the winner. Our attack has one off day and we lose a game we should have won.

With such key games like Citeh, Spurs, Chelsea & Manure coming up, hope there is some serious working on defence. Between now and the end of the season, we would need at least 18 points to claim a CL spot. Hope all the good work up until now is not squandered away.
 

MarlboroMan

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All four of our CBs are good players and most here and agree to that. But all seem to be out of form and have been prone to mistakes at any given time. Certainly the keeper isn't doing much to help them by refusing to come out and help deal with crosses and set-pieces. I remember Pepe being much more brave than Simon plus he's decision making needs a lot of work and footwork and kicking and throwing, pretty much everything but shot stopping which he's decent to good at.
Everyone of our defenders are capable of putting in a good tackle or interception and are good readers of the game but why can't they cut the mistakes? I can't believe its that the players have suddenly gone shit and have no faith that if we bought Pique from Barcelona or Thiago Silva from PSG that the mistakes would stop. From starting the season so defensively resilient to now being incapable of keeping a few clean sheets in a row is odd to say the least.
The foul conceded by Skrtel was no foul and nor was it a yellow. That goal was unlucky as much as it was bad defending to me.

The chopping and changing of the backline certainly doesn't help matters but it seems to have gotten to another level of atrociousness.

The attacking is brilliant though and hopefully will be enough to get us into the top 3, shouldn't just aim for the top 4. Top 3 and we won't have to play in a qualifying round and will automatically be in the CL proper. Remember Everton finished 4th and the next season failed to qualify for the group stages cause they were knocked out before then? Rodgers' inexperience in Europe has me thinking we need top 3 and not take a chance in the qualifiers.