Post Match: Liverpool 4 West Ham 1

MarlboroMan

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Love this:

City dropped points at Southampton, Chelsea stumbled again under the 'not so special anymore' one and special agent Moyes continued his impressive work in dismantling United's fucking perch. Simple fact: United has scored 8 home goals this season, Liverpool have scored 9 since eight o'clock on Wednesday.
 

sanjay_sai_rpt

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MarlboroMan said:
Love this:

City dropped points at Southampton, Chelsea stumbled again under the 'not so special anymore' one and special agent Moyes continued his impressive work in dismantling United's fucking perch. Simple fact: United has scored 8 home goals this season, Liverpool have scored 9 since eight o'clock on Wednesday.
One of the greatest f%*#king statistics I have read today :)
 

lfc.eddie

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zagueiro said:
Egggsackerly, you've made my point for me. Lucas loses possession, everyone notices, and it's the ONLY thing they remember from his 30 minutes on the pitch. Allen does exactly the same...........twice........ and that's fine, no problem, and everyone focus's on the good things he did. it's double standards is my point, and you backed my point up perfectly.
Because when Lucas made a forward pass or a through ball, the whole world stopped because those who loves him make sure you take notice. While Allen's through ball to Kelly wasn't even picked up. I am not a big fan of Allen, but I see what he did for the team against Norwich and West Ham. Now let's hope he can do the same against Spurs and City, not that I want him to singlehandedly win us the match, at least not lose his way.
 

sportbilly1966

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I do agree with Zag and our lack of patience with players. In our possession game it is virtually impossible for a player not to give the ball away or get caught in possession in potentially dangerous areas. Suarez did it against WHU & when we played Arsenal I remember Arleta being caught in possession a couple of times in dangerous areas.

All that can be done is to educate the players to be in cover positions just in case.

On one occasion, when Allen did lose the ball it resulted in a 3 v 2 against Turtle & Sakho, what impressed me was Sakho game intelligence where he cut out the passing lane to an open player as well as closing down the ball.

Thought Allen had a great game and was very impressed when our captain was replaced by Lucas we had 10 - 15 minutes where our pressing and passing was probably the best we have seen this season and should have resulted in at least a couple of goals.
 

Johnny T.

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The thing about Joe Allen, and most players is balance. No one overdoes his praise, or over defends his weaknesses. If he is poor, we can express that, without the customary comparisons to other players and incessant production of stats in his defense.

Zagueiro is upset that Lucas has been benched, so the best he can do is have ago at Allen. I voted Luis as MOTM, but Allen was close, he was really good on Saturday. But there is a danger he will usurp Lucas, and we can't be having that. Pity in more ways than one that Stevie is injured, because we may have seen the partnership with Allen blossom, and every game Lucas would have been benched would make us acknowledge how poor he has been in MOST games this season.
 

lfc.eddie

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Johnny T. said:
The thing about Joe Allen, and most players is balance. No one overdoes his praise, or over defends his weaknesses. If he is poor, we can express that, without the customary comparisons to other players and incessant production of stats in his defense.
You're lucky the super supporters ain't here anymore. Some would rather see him play ahead of our captain.
 

Hope in your heart

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Opposing Allen and Lucas doesn't make any sense. They are both part of one team, and will both have an important role to play this season. I for one am ƒ°©∆¡[email protected] delighted that Allen finally seems to come of age and puts some pressure on Lucas' position in the team. This will better both the team and Lucas, who has had to put up with exaggerated dependency from the club on his fitness and form, and this since ages. Having a team-mate able to take his place when he needs a breather can only be a good thing for him. Also, they might very well form a partnership at times, as they are complementary players.

Bottom-line, having an in-form Allen is a huge plus for everyone linked with LFC, and will eventually lead to a more in-form Lucas as well.


As for the match, I couldn't watch it, apart from the first 30 minutes. It's good to see that we have been able to react appropriatedly to the disappointment at Hull, with nine goals scored in two games. That way, we are now set up in a good mental shape before our difficult trip to WHL. Hopefully Gerrard will be able to shake off his niggle before the match, fingers crossed.
 

zagueiro

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Johnny T. said:
The thing about Joe Allen, and most players is balance. No one overdoes his praise, or over defends his weaknesses. If he is poor, we can express that, without the customary comparisons to other players and incessant production of stats in his defense.

Zagueiro is upset that Lucas has been benched, so the best he can do is have ago at Allen. I voted Luis as MOTM, but Allen was close, he was really good on Saturday. But there is a danger he will usurp Lucas, and we can't be having that. Pity in more ways than one that Stevie is injured, because we may have seen the partnership with Allen blossom, and every game Lucas would have been benched would make us acknowledge how poor he has been in MOST games this season.
Actually, I think Joe Allen has had a lot of criticism, as has Henderson. I rate them both, and agree that very few defend them, especially Henderson last season, it was hard to read another young player getting slated every game.

And you're very wrong about Lucas. I rate Allen very highly, I'm happy to see Lucas benched if the players picked are in better form than him. What I won't accept is things like your last sentence, where you try and get people to think he's been poor in most games this season, because I just don't agree, and that's why the Lucas thing rumbles on. You and your ilk slate him, unjustly in many people's opinio,n and a certain sector of posters respond to defend him. How about you's all stop slaggin him off and we won't need to oppose your view? Worth a try imo
 

slufsar

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How about Lucas stops being so shiet, so we dont have to point it out no more?
 

Urban Achiever

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The way I see it this constant Lucas-discussion really evolves around one thing.

Lucas is so limited in going forward that he really only contributes defensively. What he's does creatively going forward could be done at least as well by anyone in our squad. Therefore he's judged (extra) hard whenever he makes a mistake in defending, because that's all he does. If Skrtel makes a bad forward pass (as he did against Norwich... where Allen then got the blame) people forgive him because that's not what's expected and he does his part in other areas. When Glenn Johnson loses possesion by stumbling over his own feet or shoots 20 feet wide off the goal, we forgive him pretty quickly because he's got other aspects to his game.

Gerrard loses possesion and doesn't make it back to defend.... he get's criticised... but is forgiven because he offers so much more. Same goes for Suarez, Sturridge etc.... Mignolet makes a poor pass and gives the opponents the ball, but is forgiven because he's world class on so many other levels and never messes up his basic job.....hell, even Henderson is forgiven because he offers effort covering the entire ground, every single second of the game.

I do however agree that a player like Lucas does a lot of work that goes unnoticed... and therefore recieves a lot of critique... by myself as well. On the other hand, I think a lot of people defending him needs to aknowledge that IF you have a player with such limited abillity going forward he needs to be very close to 100% in what he does and what his main-job is. Lucas is very rarely 100% and offers close to nothing appart from his "home base-responsibilities" and therefore people don't forgive his mistakes.

Used as a DM-type midfielder Allen contributes all across midfield and I think that's why he's forgiven more often for things Lucas would be slaughtered for. Is there still a need for Lucas? Of course... but going forward he is close to pointless, so as a starter I think his days will soon be numbered.
 

daddydave

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So what did we learn.
Sakho should start every game.
Skrtel is trying to steal top goal scorer title from Suarez
We need a left back
Moses should not be played
Sterling should have gone to spec savers he couldn't hit a barn door, seriously he is like a mini Emile Heskey
More worrying is the fact that with no Gerrard in the middle we have no power or strength left in mid field, fine against westham but this could be a different story when up against man city.
 

Johnny T.

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zagueiro said:
Actually, I think Joe Allen has had a lot of criticism, as has Henderson. I rate them both, and agree that very few defend them, especially Henderson last season, it was hard to read another young player getting slated every game.

And you're very wrong about Lucas. I rate Allen very highly, I'm happy to see Lucas benched if the players picked are in better form than him. What I won't accept is things like your last sentence, where you try and get people to think he's been poor in most games this season, because I just don't agree, and that's why the Lucas thing rumbles on. You and your ilk slate him, unjustly in many people's opinio,n and a certain sector of posters respond to defend him. How about you's all stop slaggin him off and we won't need to oppose your view? Worth a try imo
How about you and your ilk quit the incessant nauseating defence, worth a try imo..,....
 

Hope in your heart

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Ok lads, take that discussion to the Lucas thread, and let's concentrate on the match.

I don't think anyone has put up any stats in here. Here are those from the bbc:

  • Score: LFC 4 - 1 WHU
  • Possession: LFC 64% - 36% WHU
  • Shots: LFC 32 - 8 WHU
  • Shots on target: 8 - 1
  • Corners: 8 - 4
  • Fouls: 9 - 12

So, as I didn't watch the game, it seems we created plenty of chances, but were wasteful? One shot out of four on target would suggest this... Anyone wanting to give some feedback on this?
 

redbj

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Here's some feedback...

Watch the fookin game.
 

therealkeano1

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slufsar said:
How about Lucas stops being so shiet, so we dont have to point it out no more?
Ok how about you get back in your box. Lucas is one of the best midfielders. It's always good having 5 good midfielders I would like Liverpool to have 6.
 

norwegian wood

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Hope in your heart said:
Ok lads, take that discussion to the Lucas thread, and let's concentrate on the match.

I don't think anyone has put up any stats in here. Here are those from the bbc:

  • Score: LFC 4 - 1 WHU
  • Possession: LFC 64% - 36% WHU
  • Shots: LFC 32 - 8 WHU
  • Shots on target: 8 - 1
  • Corners: 8 - 4
  • Fouls: 9 - 12

So, as I didn't watch the game, it seems we created plenty of chances, but were wasteful? One shot out of four on target would suggest this... Anyone wanting to give some feedback on this?
We were a bit wasteful, yes. Sterling and Suarez had 1 v 1's against Jaaskelainen in the first half, and Sterling missed a sitter in the second half. All those should at least have been on target, and the last one should have been a goal. Crucial moment as well, as we were 2-0 up and really pushing them back. That's the obvious ones I can think of right now.

More stats is perhaps not very helpful to answer your question, but if you click the 'Full Stats' button and then 'Goals/Attempts' you can see our shots that were saved, blocked or off target - according to Squawka:

http://epl.squawka.com/liverpool-vs-west-ham-united/07-12-2013/english-barclays-premier-league/matches
 

darren kelly

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Win 4-1 and people are still unhappy lol at least we are not Man Utd under Moyes.

Pity Gerrard is injured again.I bet that is from playing stupid friendly matches for England with the managers blessing.We should stop him playing these friendly matches as he is too old for them.
 

liveforthereds

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Only heard some of the game on the radio and it sounded like it was a case of not finishing well, 2 nil up and it sounded like we where doing are best to give them hope. The third goal came after I had switched off the car and must have been a killer blow to them. 29 chances on goal shows we can make chances but when we loose one of the front two we are struggling to hit the net. Let's hope we don't loose Luis other wise we will struggle.
 

Urban Achiever

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Sakho against WH.... completed, from what I've read 34 out of 35 passes.
I know it's easier as a CB.... but that's impressive... especially since he plays the ball out of defense a great deal, instead of just pushing it about the back line.