Post-Match: Liverpool 5-1 Norwich

koptician

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SoueysTash said:
Henderson - well, I'm bored with his application and endurance, we need creativity badly from our midfielders in that position and he doesn't offer any.
Not to mention ATROCIOUS finishing! At least he gets into good positions.
DeathOrGlory said:
Really happy with the team mentality now. We were probably only bad against Hull because of fucking international games, but when the team has had some more time together, they really listen to the bollocking Brendan hopefully gave them, and lifted so much.

Good to see.
Sorry but didn't we have the international break before the Everton game and then a whole week off before Hull?
 

Arminius

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rupzzz said:
I got it at 8/1.
Dumb bookie. That is the third time he has done it in 3 seasons, looks to be more of a 50/50 proposition to me. Easy money!
 

SirBillShankly

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koptician said:
Really? I thought Allen lost the ball a few times in dangerous areas and especially in the first half seemed very hesitant in possession. Better teams will muller you for that. Dagger really is an aerial liability.

Stevie G was marvelous!

I have no adjectives left to describe Luis' performance.

Happy for Sterling to get his goal, hopefully this kickstarts him getting more!
I noticed Allen did give the ball away cheaply at the start of the game , however, in his defence, he really upped his game. Henderson however, was horrible. Watching the game again right now on LFCtv and he just keeps giving the ball away.
 

DeathOrGlory

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koptician said:
Not to mention ATROCIOUS finishing! At least he gets into good positions.

Sorry but didn't we have the international break before the Everton game and then a whole week off before Hull?
Ah, shit.

I blame Roy nonetheless.
 

EdWood

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I think the reason that BR couldn't raise a smile last night was because he's still got a cob on about the Hull atrocity.

Majestic Suarez performance. Oh how we're gonna miss him.
 

Dublin_Kopite

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Only seen the match on a poor stream but what was peoples views on Allen doing the Lucas role?

Was his passing patterns similar?
Would be interested to see passing maps and heat maps to compare both players...
 

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Dublin_Kopite said:
Only seen the match on a poor stream but what was peoples views on Allen doing the Lucas role?

Was his passing patterns similar?
Would be interested to see passing maps and heat maps to compare both players...
I have not seen positional or passing maps, but my sense he was playing rather further forward than Lucas does most of the time, to the point that i would not characterize him as doing the 'Lucas role'. I expect the tactical instructions were quite aggressive.
 

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Dublin_Kopite said:
Only seen the match on a poor stream but what was peoples views on Allen doing the Lucas role?

Was his passing patterns similar?
Would be interested to see passing maps and heat maps to compare both players...
At the beginning, he was guilty of losing the ball one or two times, in very dangerous positions. Then, he raised his game and became better and better. His passes became more assured, combined very well with Gerrard and the higher positioned Henderson, and together, they managed to nullify Norwich pretty much 100% in the second half.

He was a bit more dynamic than Lucas usually is, going further up the pitch than the Brazilian (that's the feeling I get, I've got no heatmap). It culminated with that magnificent long belter which would really have been the icing on the cake if Ruddy hadn't performed superbly to tip it over the bar.

My take is that we didn't miss Lucas at all in that game, and that bodes well for Allen. It also confirms what many have said since long, that Lucas is a precious player against strong and attacking-minded opposition (as his error-quote is nearly nil all the time), while against opposition we want to dominate, he can be put on the bench for a more attacking-minded replacement.

Still, had the Norwich player capitalized on Allen's early error (as for instance Aguero would have done with 99% certainty), it could have been a completely different game...
 

Quagmire81

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Dublin_Kopite said:
Only seen the match on a poor stream but what was peoples views on Allen doing the Lucas role?

Was his passing patterns similar?
Would be interested to see passing maps and heat maps to compare both players...
He got forward a lot more than lucas normally would, He had a cracking shot at goal only denied by a great save from their keeper.

We wasen't overrun in the midfield, but neither looked too good, Suarez goal-show took all the courage out of norwich which obvious helped make it easier for our midfield.
Gerrard was the only one that was really good in our midfield I think, Coutinho did well too but his end product was not so good, and henderson seem to do a bad Downing parody. Allen did well, as mention he almost scored a fantastic goal.
 

fcukManU

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zagueiro said:
I genuinely think that if Suarez had played for Norwich the score would have been 5-1 to Norwich :( Our team bar him are average. Without Suarez yesterday I doubt very much we'd have won, and the same can be said for alot of games this year where either Sturridge or Suarez have gotten us out of big holes. WIth Sturridge injured, when Luis doesn't perform - see Hull for evidence - we are pretty poor. Harsh, but pretty true unfortunately.
Although I agree with the premise in general, we would have won without him. What I don't like it how his unreal performances often covers the sloppiness that's present in our play, and how there's a lack of goals from the rest of the team. It's almost a safety net for the other players to put in mediocre performances and get away with it, fine in games like this when Suarez is in the mood.. but we'll need them to step up and be counted when the chips are down. But on the whole, I can't be too critical, was a decent functional performance. And just a hunch, but I guarantee your tone would have been different if Lucas was playing instead of Allen and we put in that exact same performance. Just sayin'...
 

zagueiro

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fcukManU said:
Although I agree with the premise in general, we would have won without him. What I don't like it how his unreal performances often covers the sloppiness that's present in our play, and how there's a lack of goals from the rest of the team. It's almost a safety net for the other players to put in mediocre performances and get away with it, fine against games like this when Suarez is in the mood.. but we'll need them to step up and be counted when the chips are down. But on the whole, I can't be too critical, was a decent functional performance. And just a hunch, but I guarantee your tone would have been different if Lucas was playing instead of Allen and we put in that exact same performance. Just sayin'...
Apart from the fact that I said this

"I doubt very much we'd have won, and the same can be said for alot of games this year where either Sturridge or Suarez have gotten us out of big holes"

and Lucas played in many of those games:/

We are way too dependent on moments of brilliance from our strikers and it's a worry is my point. Take their goals out of the equation and how many goals have we scored from open play. 2? 1 by Moses and 1 by Sterling? That's shocking. Now I know all teams are reliant on their strikers for goals, but we are way to dependant on them, arguably more dependant than any other team in the top division.
 

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zagueiro said:
Apart from the fact that I said this

"I doubt very much we'd have won, and the same can be said for alot of games this year where either Sturridge or Suarez have gotten us out of big holes"

and Lucas played in many of those games:/

We are way too dependent on moments of brilliance from our strikers and it's a worry is my point. Take their goals out of the equation and how many goals have we scored from open play. 2? 1 by Moses and 1 by Sterling? That's shocking. Now I know all teams are reliant on their strikers for goals, but we are way to dependant on them, arguably more dependant than any other team in the top division.
That's why i started the thread. I shudder to think how we would fare if Genius gets injured. Need a couple of goalscorers in January.
 

Quagmire81

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That's why lots of us are screaming out for a more balanced midfield.

For me it's been crystal clear for years now we been lacking midfielders that can score regularly. Adding another Striker counterweight it well though. But Adding a few solid goal scoring midfielders to the side would improve us a lot.
 

SirBillShankly

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Quagmire81 said:
That's why lots of us are screaming out for a more balanced midfield.

For me it's been crystal clear for years now we been lacking midfielders that can score regularly. Adding another Striker counterweight it well though. But Adding a few solid goal scoring midfielders to the side would improve us a lot.
Yep, all for that idea. It's a BIG arguement as to why Allen should be selected, he has goals in him, certainly more than Lucas, Hendo looks like a rabbit caught in headlights once he gets within 30 yards of goal these days, Stevie's regular goalscoring days are behind him and Coutinho flatters to deceive far too often for my liking. Another striker and goalscoring midfielder or two are hopefully the priority for the committee.
 

ptt

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SirBillShankly said:
That's why i started the thread. I shudder to think how we would fare if Genius gets injured. Need a couple of goalscorers in January.
We didn't do to badly at the start of the season? Problem occurs if both Suarez and Sturridge are out.
 

Quagmire81

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ptt said:
We didn't do to badly at the start of the season? Problem occurs if both Suarez and Sturridge are out.
True, but our first three 1-0 wins was as fragile as eggshells. could easy have been draws as I recall.

Mignolets saved a pen in our opener, had another spetacular save to deny Benteke against Villa. And United win was close too.

Had we draw those games our season would have been totally different.
 

lovepool

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I hope Allen keeps his place on Saturday as he was decent against Norwich. If however Lucas comes back into the team he must play asa CM player and not just sit deep like he has done all season. Allen and Gerrard shared defensive duties last night and when in possession Coutinho at times was the deepest midfielder.

Maybe Lucas has been under instructions to sit deep, I can understand it against stronger sides, but he has to be more forward thinking against the lesser sides.
 

SirBillShankly

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ptt said:
We didn't do to badly at the start of the season? Problem occurs if both Suarez and Sturridge are out.
Or if Suarez isn't getting the support he needs,( we just have to look at the Hull or Arsenal games). We need to spread the goals around the team, like we used to.
 

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lovepool said:
I hope Allen keeps his place on Saturday as he was decent against Norwich. If however Lucas comes back into the team he must play asa CM player and not just sit deep like he has done all season. Allen and Gerrard shared defensive duties last night and when in possession Coutinho at times was the deepest midfielder.

Maybe Lucas has been under instructions to sit deep, I can understand it against stronger sides, but he has to be more forward thinking against the lesser sides.
And when we bought Lucas he was knocking them in, he was a regular scorer wasn't he? I think he has goals in his locker, maybe Brendan should look to see if he can rediscover that side of his game?
 

Quagmire81

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lovepool said:
I hope Allen keeps his place on Saturday as he was decent against Norwich. If however Lucas comes back into the team he must play asa CM player and not just sit deep like he has done all season. Allen and Gerrard shared defensive duties last night and when in possession Coutinho at times was the deepest midfielder.

Maybe Lucas has been under instructions to sit deep, I can understand it against stronger sides, but he has to be more forward thinking against the lesser sides.
I was gonna post about this, but then you beat me to it.

"One thing we also learned from the game, and in the light of the palace game, is that we don't need a all out DM/lucas against the small sides, I mean what benefit did we get from having him in ther side against hull? none as far as I can tell"
 

zagueiro

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SirBillShankly said:
Yep, all for that idea. It's a BIG arguement as to why Allen should be selected, he has goals in him, certainly more than Lucas, Hendo looks like a rabbit caught in headlights once he gets within 30 yards of goal these days, Stevie's regular goalscoring days are behind him and Coutinho flatters to deceive far too often for my liking. Another striker and goalscoring midfielder or two are hopefully the priority for the committee.
I think it's fair to not expect the deepest midfielder (whoever it is) to score goals, but the other 2, Hendo and Gerrard in the main HAVE to score, and regularly, same for Coutinho. Look at Man City, Fernandinho is the deepest, he doesn't score, but Yaya scores plenty. Same with Arse, Flamini doesn't really score, but Ramsey etc do. Chelsea, Mikel/Essien don't score, but Ramires and Lampard do. It's a massive problem, and god help us if our forwards lose form :(
 

SirBillShankly

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zagueiro said:
I think it's fair to not expect the deepest midfielder (whoever it is) to score goals, but the other 2, Hendo and Gerrard in the main HAVE to score, and regularly, same for Coutinho. Look at Man City, Fernandinho is the deepest, he doesn't score, but Yaya scores plenty. Same with Arse, Flamini doesn't really score, but Ramsey etc do. Chelsea, Mikel/Essien don't score, but Ramires and Lampard do. It's a massive problem, and god help us if our forwards lose form :(
I agree with you. Not really expecting Lucas to score, and neither should we if he's instructed to sit deep and hold his position, but the other mids need to really step up, i think Allen deserves a run at Hendo's expense. For all of Jordan's running he doesn't add goals or assists, won't forget his marvellous energetic run at the Emirates followed by his pathetic, powderpuff attempt at goal, just about sums up his attacking play for the vast majority of this season so far, yet the back end of last season his goals and assists tally was very impressive.

Brendan has talked about the need for Alberto and Aspas to start scoring, hardly fair as he hasn't hardly been playing them. He should be pointing the finger at the regulars a bit more, players like Coutinho and Henderson.
 

Quagmire81

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Coutinho add so much to our offensive, that you can't really lay blame on him for not scoring more than he does, but his shooting must improve in the future, it was quite bad last night.
 

SirBillShankly

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Quagmire81 said:
Coutinho add so much to our offensive, that you can't really lay blame on him for not scoring more than he does, but his shooting must improve in the future, it was quite bad last night.
Well, i disagree, why can't you blame him for not scoring more often? It's what he gets paid rather well for, as one of our main attackers, it is his responsibility to hit the back of the net from time to time. I agree with you that his shooting needs to improve, hopefully more end product and goals will come in time.
 

Quagmire81

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SirBillShankly said:
Well, i disagree, why can't you blame him for not scoring more often? It's what he gets paid rather well for, as one of our main attackers, it is his responsibility to hit the back of the net from time to time. I agree with you that his shooting needs to improve, hopefully more end product and goals will come in time.
Cause he add so much else the whole team benefit from. It would be unfair to ingnore all the good things he brings just cause he's not scoring every game, and mainly cause the others never score.

He's still just 21, and just came back from an injury, can't lay it all on his shoulder this soon.
Besides he's more of a creater than executioner, and does his job very well, unlike some others in our midfield. Those are the ones we can lay blame on.
 

rab

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Quagmire81 said:
True, but our first three 1-0 wins was as fragile as eggshells. could easy have been draws as I recall.

Mignolets saved a pen in our opener, had another spetacular save to deny Benteke against Villa. And United win was close too.

Had we draw those games our season would have been totally different.
But we didn't draw them and we had further chances to put all three of those games to bed that we missed.

It doesn't disguise the fact that performances early season were less than assured but to give the old "if this had happened or that had happened then that would have been the result" is pointless. Those things didn't happen, we won, we got the three points on the board.
 

lovepool

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SirBillShankly said:
And when we bought Lucas he was knocking them in, he was a regular scorer wasn't he? I think he has goals in his locker, maybe Brendan should look to see if he can rediscover that side of his game?
Nobody mentioned Lucas scoring goals except you. What he should be doing is have a higher starting position. He seems to think all he has to do is stay deep in midfield and pass it sideways. Against most teams we should use a midfield similar to what McMahon and Whelan were in the past. Either could attack and defend when required and worked off each other
 

Quagmire81

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rab said:
But we didn't draw them and we had further chances to put all three of those games to bed that we missed.

It doesn't disguise the fact that performances early season were less than assured but to give the old "if this had happened or that had happened then that would have been the result" is pointless. Those things didn't happen, we won, we got the three points on the board.
Didn't you exactly do that with our wins, with the 3-5-2 formation though?