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Post match: Liverpool v Arsenal (CS 29/8/20 4.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Williams (off 60')

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 26 57.8%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Milner (off 60')

    Votes: 2 4.4%
  • Wijnaldum (off 92')

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Salah

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 7 15.6%
  • Firmino

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Minamino (on 60', GOAL ??')

    Votes: 21 46.7%
  • Keita (on 60')

    Votes: 9 20.0%
  • Jones (on ??)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Brewster (on 92')

    Votes: 3 6.7%

  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .

Muad

TIA New Signing
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
158
It's crazy how over-wrought the media was by the defeat. Firstly, Arsenal played like crap. Except for a moment of brilliance by Aubemeyang we were by far the better team. Secondly, our shape and formation was being affected by the vulnerability at right back. Yes, there was a lack of firm-decision-making in the midfield with neither Wijnaldum nor Fabinho providing cover in the first half. Because of the fear on that wing, there was a collapse in the initial tactics - we were set up to attack (very high-line) but every surge forward was met by an Arsenal counter designed to tap into Neco Williams' rawness.

When we have TAA back at right-back and start Keita rather than Milner and have Hendo to take control of developing on-field situations we will be a much different side.

The biggest issue in my mind will be whether enough of the team has the hunger to continue to win things. The best sides are driven by crazed individuals who want to keep winning at any cost. I also think some of the players need serious competition to get them to perform their best. Werner may have brought that in the front 3. I think Thiago would bring that in the midfield.
 

FGred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
3,958
The point is you are questioning Klopp and co earning millions unnecessarily because of that one decision of letting Brewster take penalty. It might not be correct in hindsight, and it's okay even if it was wrong. You do not get everything right everytime.

Funny how everytime we lose its always the same old, our midfield needs a revamp, front three don't do anything, we don't spend enough, we are doomed, etc etc. When Klopp asked to be believers, he didn't mean to believe them in bits and pieces.

Yes there are few areas that can be improved surely, but the incessant pessimism makes you wonder we have absolute fools owning and managing us at times. Let's have patience, neither the transfer window has closed, nor are we already out of all competitions of the next season.
Good on you mate
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
17,247
Our 3 Brazilians are a worry. Alisson, Fabinho and firmino have dipped quite a bit of late.

Alisson made a good save yesterday but he is performing below his standard.
I thought Firmino brightened up when we changed shape.

Ali is definitely not at his best.

Fabinho looks awful far too often. His inability to snuff danger out in front of the back 4 is a worry, always out of position and too slow to recover. Henderson makes him look a much better player than he is. This is nothing new though, we are always more solid defensively when Fabinho isn't playing.
 

Alright Now

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2016
Messages
13,399
The point is you are questioning Klopp and co earning millions unnecessarily because of that one decision of letting Brewster take penalty. It might not be correct in hindsight, and it's okay even if it was wrong. You do not get everything right everytime.

Funny how everytime we lose its always the same old, our midfield needs a revamp, front three don't do anything, we don't spend enough, we are doomed, etc etc. When Klopp asked to be believers, he didn't mean to believe them in bits and pieces.

Yes there are few areas that can be improved surely, but the incessant pessimism makes you wonder we have absolute fools owning and managing us at times. Let's have patience, neither the transfer window has closed, nor are we already out of all competitions of the next season.
A drop of spilled milk is still spilled milk and there must be crying. It’s a natural law.

i would recommend an added feature for the new forum. If anyone says sell a player, it should show by their names. Because this whole sell Naaaaby laaaad, start Naaaaaby laaaad and sell Taki, start Taki with a new formation built to accommodate him is throwing me for a loop.
 

Scott Jones

Blunt
Ad-free Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
17,765
Wouldn't have been arsed to mention it to rival mates had we won it so not going to pretend i'm gutted for not doing so.Mates "ha ha,fancy celebrating winning that shite" turns into "ha ha,you lost a chance of winning a major trophy",Me,fuck off silly cunt.
 

Alright Now

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2016
Messages
13,399
Wouldn't have been arsed to mention it to rival mates had we won it so not going to pretend i'm gutted for not doing so.Mates "ha ha,fancy celebrating winning that shite" turns into "ha ha,you lost a chance of winning a major trophy",Me,fuck off silly cunt.
You don’t even show up for these minor fixtures any more, I’ve noticed. Helps me judge the importance of the matches.
 

Colorado Red

TIA New Signing
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
467
I don’t think this match revealed anything that I/we didn’t already know:

(In no particular order)

-Our front 3, while still world-class, are looking a little bit jaded and predictable, and really have been aside from 1-2 games since the restart. Desperately need (but doubt we’ll get) a 4th forward who is at/near their level to allow for rotation, especially with the compressed season coming up. (Makes me reconsider a move for someone like Sarr. Not necessarily Sarr exactly, but someone better than Divock and further along than Brewster).

-A midfield combo of Gini and Milner is not going to win you many games, especially against teams that are content to sit back. Thiago in ASAP.

-Naby is our best all-around midfielder atm. Needs to be starting most of our games, and pray for his health. And pray for Hendo’s fast recovery.

-Trent may be the single most important player in our squad. So much goes through him, and we aren’t the same when he’s out.

-Our youngsters (Neco, Jones, Brewster, etc) are all very exciting talents, but still have a ways to go. Will need them for rotation during the season, and expect all should be get enough minutes to continue their development, but be ready for some bumps in the road. Pray that those bumps don’t cost us too many points.

-Taki is starting to show signs, though still think he’s best suited to spell Bobby and play through the middle.

-Fabinho was fine as a CB, but seeing the back line shuffle around like that is a reminder that we’re one long-term injury and a niggle away from doing that on a regular basis, and our defensive play in general since the restart has been suspect at times. Having a legit 4th CB would be a relief.
 

Darrel3000

Liverpool is my Religion
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
153
It is a part of English football history. League champs v Cup winners. I believe all major European footballing countries have one and whilst it is not as important as the league or the cup it is the next most important event in English football.
thaTS WHAT I THOUGHT BUT WASN'T SURE, thanks for the in depth explanation. yeah it would have so nice for another trophy. arsenal defended well but we didnt have the usual brilliance in the box, save for the few moves when minamino scored. robbo was brilliant. my motm. salah was shite, he should have done more. he was in the box maybe 5 times shoulda been at least 15. but brewster was overconfident and like all youg lads was going to perfection instead of assurance. he will learn, if not Klopp the older players will sort him out.
 

Joe Gomez x

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2018
Messages
1,314
Thought Minamino was fantastic when he came on.
Slightly worried with one substitution in defence already led to us putting Fabinho in centre half.
Mo was invisible which is annoying.
Midfield was poor. Missed Hendo.
We have a 46% win percentage rate since February
 

jaffod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
3,291
We've only beaten one team in normal time at the new Wembley in 7 attempts.

That's Everton that.
 

Iluvatar

Allez (x6)
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
9,408
I actually think I know why Williams was left out to dry.

Milner and Gini both typically play left center midfield, I wonder if their heatmaps show them both vacating the right hand side of midfield, leaving Fabinho with too much to cover and Salah never tracks back so Williams got overloaded.
 

Redopium

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Messages
1,587
The comunity shield is designated as a non competitive match yellow and red cards received in the game do not count on players disciplinary record, nor do appearances or goals scored count towards seasonal or career totals.
 

Neukolln

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2018
Messages
4,240
Wonder when the new forum starts if we could temper fickleness with realism? League Champions, the murder of Palace a few weeks ago, a poor performance in a "friendly" and people are panicking and bemoaning all things Liverpool.
Poor finishing
Poor Brazilians
Poor passing
Poor penalty by a kid
Poor decisions by Klopp who seemingly gets paid millions to get it right
Poor performance by Williams, another kid filling in for Young Player of the Year, despite Aubameyang tearing established defenders asunder all his career.

Get a grip folks
Lol, your post was fine until “get a trip folks”. Supporters have the right to express concern for discussion. I haven’t seen any egregiously out of line comments in this thread. One could just as easily say you’re being a stepford, with your head buried in the sand.

“It’s just _____ “

A friendly
A restart
A meaningless match
A day ending in Y

Moving to the new forums, maybe we could get a list of matches that we can or cannot express discourse over effort? It’s become confusing now what we are allowed to say and when. Arsenal have beat us now in consecutive matches that were evidently meaningless. Yet, they still beat us with our regulars.

JK and our boys have pushed the limits of what we thought possible for the last 3 years. They’ve given us joy and excitement and great pride over their accomplishments. The backpack of hurt is gone. What they’ve done is unbelievable. All that said, their form has been a bit troubling since losing to Watford and being dumped from Champs League. IMO, this squad needs some new life breathed into it. I love and respect that The Boss loves working with a small squad, but maybe things have become stale and predictable. I’m not advocating adding 4+ players and spending for spending sake but IMO some reinforcements and adjustments are needed. Things need shaken up a bit if we are to sustain success while we still have Jürgen. He burnt himself out at Dortmund by achieving the impossible with a small squad. But his players heard the same message every day, and I dont want that same arc for him here.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
17,247
I actually think I know why Williams was left out to dry.

Milner and Gini both typically play left center midfield, I wonder if their heatmaps show them both vacating the right hand side of midfield, leaving Fabinho with too much to cover and Salah never tracks back so Williams got overloaded.
Milner was on the left, Gini on the right. Gini did nothing to give Williams support, neither did Salah. Fabinho kept wondering up the pitch trying to win the ball high up instead of holding. I actually thought Milner did fairly well.

All a bit of a shit show, it's a shame we didn't start with the 4231.
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
1,417
Lol, your post was fine until “get a trip folks”. Supporters have the right to express concern for discussion. I haven’t seen any egregiously out of line comments in this thread. One could just as easily say you’re being a stepford, with your head buried in the sand.

“It’s just _____ “

A friendly
A restart
A meaningless match
A day ending in Y

Moving to the new forums, maybe we could get a list of matches that we can or cannot express discourse over effort? It’s become confusing now what we are allowed to say and when. Arsenal have beat us now in consecutive matches that were evidently meaningless. Yet, they still beat us with our regulars.

JK and our boys have pushed the limits of what we thought possible for the last 3 years. They’ve given us joy and excitement and great pride over their accomplishments. The backpack of hurt is gone. What they’ve done is unbelievable. All that said, their form has been a bit troubling since losing to Watford and being dumped from Champs League. IMO, this squad needs some new life breathed into it. I love and respect that The Boss loves working with a small squad, but maybe things have become stale and predictable. I’m not advocating adding 4+ players and spending for spending sake but IMO some reinforcements and adjustments are needed. Things need shaken up a bit if we are to sustain success while we still have Jürgen. He burnt himself out at Dortmund by achieving the impossible with a small squad. But his players heard the same message every day, and I dont want that same arc for him here.
Nah
My head isnt buried in the sand. In the new forums we should discuss everything. But it would be better if we could do it without the routine criticism, especially unwarranted criticism. Klopp (earning millions for making decisions) took a gamble on a young striker scoring a pen. Which he missed by a half inch....
Any other result has people celebrating....

So, yes. Get a grip folks. Lets panic if we font beat Leeds 5-0
 

vjcpatriot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
978
Brewster brought on with seconds to go to take a penalty, and of course it backfires... I could have made that call... :ROFLMAO:

Anyway, a good run-out for the lads. Better second half, deservedly came back into the game (good goal from Taki), could have won it but lacked that sharpness.

The rest was just a foot note without importance.
Why was the greenest player on the team selected to take a pressure packed penalty? LOL.
 

jaffod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
3,291
Fucking hell, are people going to continue banging on about Brewster's missed penalty and the circumstances surrounding it as if he'd been asked to land a fucking packed passenger jet with no training?
He took a penalty in a pre-season friendly in front of 0 spectators and hit the bar. Big deal. No problems with Curtis Jones taking one just because he scored his?
 

nikz200

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
1,249
Lol, your post was fine until “get a trip folks”. Supporters have the right to express concern for discussion. I haven’t seen any egregiously out of line comments in this thread. One could just as easily say you’re being a stepford, with your head buried in the sand.

“It’s just _____ “

A friendly
A restart
A meaningless match
A day ending in Y

Moving to the new forums, maybe we could get a list of matches that we can or cannot express discourse over effort? It’s become confusing now what we are allowed to say and when. Arsenal have beat us now in consecutive matches that were evidently meaningless. Yet, they still beat us with our regulars.

JK and our boys have pushed the limits of what we thought possible for the last 3 years. They’ve given us joy and excitement and great pride over their accomplishments. The backpack of hurt is gone. What they’ve done is unbelievable. All that said, their form has been a bit troubling since losing to Watford and being dumped from Champs League. IMO, this squad needs some new life breathed into it. I love and respect that The Boss loves working with a small squad, but maybe things have become stale and predictable. I’m not advocating adding 4+ players and spending for spending sake but IMO some reinforcements and adjustments are needed. Things need shaken up a bit if we are to sustain success while we still have Jürgen. He burnt himself out at Dortmund by achieving the impossible with a small squad. But his players heard the same message every day, and I dont want that same arc for him here.
I would super like this if I could. Hit the nail right on the head.

Nah
My head isnt buried in the sand. In the new forums we should discuss everything. But it would be better if we could do it without the routine criticism, especially unwarranted criticism. Klopp (earning millions for making decisions) took a gamble on a young striker scoring a pen. Which he missed by a half inch....
Any other result has people celebrating....

So, yes. Get a grip folks. Lets panic if we font beat Leeds 5-0
Even if we scrape past Leeds, some would still say "it's only one game" , or "we are league champions" if we cannot be honest about the team then long term there could be a struggle. This is why the best teams build from positions of strength. It's not about panicking or criticism. This is a genuine concern for the squad. And maybe the young boys will come good but we all know that also has a chance of not happening for alot of young players. No one is asking for the sky or moon. No one is asking for the staff to be dismissed. Tsimikas was a step in the right direction, hopefully management and ownership will take further steps to improve the team. However we need to not overlook performances and try and be more ruthless, especially in front of goal.
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
1,417
I would super like this if I could. Hit the nail right on the head.



Even if we scrape past Leeds, some would still say "it's only one game" , or "we are league champions" if we cannot be honest about the team then long term there could be a struggle. This is why the best teams build from positions of strength. It's not about panicking or criticism. This is a genuine concern for the squad. And maybe the young boys will come good but we all know that also has a chance of not happening for alot of young players. No one is asking for the sky or moon. No one is asking for the staff to be dismissed. Tsimikas was a step in the right direction, hopefully management and ownership will take further steps to improve the team. However we need to not overlook performances and try and be more ruthless, especially in front of goal.
You could have all if that without the unwarranted criticism or knee jerking, or questioning the manager who has delivered, on an isolated decision on a penalty in a pre season friendly.
Of course we can be critical, can question.
But lets have a bit of context??
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
1,417
Fucking hell, are people going to continue banging on about Brewster's missed penalty and the circumstances surrounding it as if he'd been asked to land a fucking packed passenger jet with no training?
He took a penalty in a pre-season friendly in front of 0 spectators and hit the bar. Big deal. No problems with Curtis Jones taking one just because he scored his?
But people are getting millions to make those decisions....
Brewster was brave enough to take one.
 

Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,293
Why was the greenest player on the team selected to take a pressure packed penalty? LOL.
It was hardly like he was asked to take one in the Champions League final.

It's actually quite a nice environment to test out some of your penalty takers. There is still pressure, because there is always pressure on a penalty, but no one should really care too much if you miss.
 

Dutch

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
2,481
Nah
My head isnt buried in the sand. In the new forums we should discuss everything. But it would be better if we could do it without the routine criticism, especially unwarranted criticism. Klopp (earning millions for making decisions) took a gamble on a young striker scoring a pen. Which he missed by a half inch....
Any other result has people celebrating....

So, yes. Get a grip folks. Lets panic if we font beat Leeds 5-0
I'm so sorry but I think there is more to it and no but I'm not panicking. We have been a bit poor and sometimes a bit more than poor in a lot of matches since the beginning of 2020. I think we need new blood and not new blood like Minamino who has still everything to proof but new blood from an established player who will instantly inject us with the quality we lack in midfield, creativity and yes I'm talking about Thiago.
 

Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
1,417
I am not saying don't sign players, or that we shouldn't improve.
I am saying there is no need for the over the top reactions to losing a Charity Shield on penalties. I was disappointed not to win it. But I will be concerned if we are not taking points off Arsenal in a few weeks.
Perspective.
 

Noo Noo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,719
I hate to lose. Any game, especially a game where you dominate the ball. It feels completely wrong to essentially be in charge and in control of things and still lose.

But this issue has arisen again. Teams defend deep, we become flat and devoid of ideas and at times easy to counter. Pretty sure that Klopp recognises the problem, heck we all do. What happens next will be the key factor I feel. It doesn't need a knee jerk reaction but certainly a good look at how we manage these situations because they are becoming more prevalent.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
But this issue has arisen again. Teams defend deep, we become flat and devoid of ideas and at times easy to counter. Pretty sure that Klopp recognises the problem, heck we all do. What happens next will be the key factor I feel. It doesn't need a knee jerk reaction but certainly a good look at how we manage these situations because they are becoming more prevalent.
Teams did that thirty odd times last season and we found a way to win.

I think we need to keep some perspective about what is essentially a warm up game. Even if it’s it’s a trophy, it’s placement two weeks before things kick off renders it even more meaningless than before. Teams don’t calibrate their fitness to be ready two weeks before the league kicks off so they can win the Charity fucking shield. The boys are being primed to be at peak on September 12th, and that’s what the big test is.
 

FGred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
3,958
I hate to lose. Any game, especially a game where you dominate the ball. It feels completely wrong to essentially be in charge and in control of things and still lose.

But this issue has arisen again. Teams defend deep, we become flat and devoid of ideas and at times easy to counter. Pretty sure that Klopp recognises the problem, heck we all do. What happens next will be the key factor I feel. It doesn't need a knee jerk reaction but certainly a good look at how we manage these situations because they are becoming more prevalent.
I am sorry but we didn’t lose the game had we had extra time we would have slaughtered them they were all cramping up at the end but the penalty shoot out is a lottery. last year we lost quite a few preseason games against top European teams but the rest is history. The only thing that might derail our season is the lack of crowds?
 

Noo Noo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
5,719
Teams did that thirty odd times last season and we found a way to win.

I think we need to keep some perspective about what is essentially a warm up game. Even if it’s it’s a trophy, it’s placement two weeks before things kick off renders it even more meaningless than before. Teams don’t calibrate their fitness to be ready two weeks before the league kicks off so they can win the Charity fucking shield. The boys are being primed to be at peak on September 12th, and that’s what the big test is.
We did, you're right but when we do come unstuck it usually follows this pattern. Furthermore, having now developed into the side that we are now we will see these tactics more often against us, so we need to be better prepared for it.

I am sorry but we didn’t lose the game had we had extra time we would have slaughtered them they were all cramping up at the end but the penalty shoot out is a lottery. last year we lost quite a few preseason games against top European teams but the rest is history. The only thing that might derail our season is the lack of crowds?
technically no but my point is that we didn't find a way of winning the game either and that pisses me off. Not because we weren't trying more over we weren't clever enough. Perhaps we weren't clinical enough as well?

In games like this I see the onus being on us to win the game. We didn't so I'm disappointed.

It's one of many problems we have to solve. It's not about panicking, more of understanding the problem and coming up with a solution.

And actually there are all sorts of things that can derail a title challenge. Just ask Rodgers and Benitez for prime examples. Anything from injuries to poor decisions to the squad simply being complacent can all screw you over