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Post match: Liverpool v Man City (EPL 10/11/19 4.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 15 6.8%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 42 18.9%
  • Lovren

    Votes: 16 7.2%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 14 6.3%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 27 12.2%
  • Fabinho [GOAL 9’]

    Votes: 157 70.7%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 65 29.3%
  • Henderson [off 61’]

    Votes: 24 10.8%
  • Salah [GOAL 13’, off 87’]

    Votes: 22 9.9%
  • Firmino [off 78’]

    Votes: 5 2.3%
  • Mane [GOAL 51’]

    Votes: 27 12.2%
  • Milner [on 61’]

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Oxlade-Chamberlain [on 78’]

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Gomez [on 87’]

    Votes: 2 0.9%

  • Total voters
    222
  • Poll closed .


Bob8

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
722
For me the biggest problem with VAR is the fact that it gives an answer to the business side of the game rather than the actual game. I have always said that aside from the players on the pitch, the ref is part of the game and even the crowd as well. When it is more important to get accurate results because the difference from the business side could be astronomical ( Winning a title, being relegated etc. ), but it takes away from the flow of the game we have a problem. Let's assume for a minute that TAA was a 100% handball and Oliver missed it. Can you imagine a situation where Fabinho's goal wold have been disallowed and the ball would have been brought back to the other side to give a pen to City ? Justice might have been served but the game would have been ruined.
Almost every call a ref has to make is subjective. Even offside calls ( see Firmino's armpit ) , but that is part of the game. I am not against technology. We lost last year the title because of goal line technology, but the data and decision was available to the ref immediately, and the natural flow of the game was not harmed. Nobody complained.
VAR is different, it stops the natural flow of the game, and while we think it should provide clear cut answers - it can't and it shouldn't.
I think the answer for the business side with VAR comes from reducing the risk for investment. There's no way that VAR would have been implemented so quick and easily in England if there wasn't serious money depending on it. Ffs, there wasn't even a referendum and 5 years of parliamentary discussion before it was introduced.
 

Jimmyscase

DoctorJimmy: knee-high flying tackle specialist
Joined
May 18, 2016
Messages
4,001
I’ve decided that the best way to counter the lack of LFC football is to look at the table every day.


Good, isn’t it?
I saw a near replica two years ago but with sky blue and red swapped over.

 

Incognito

The Normal One
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
2,885
I've been among those lamenting the exact same thing during the whole of Rodgers' tenure, and then over the first years of Klopp's. However, our lads have made great progress in that regard since last season I think. They are now able to bring in a variation in the pace of their game.

In that peculiar case, you're right, they struggled to get control over the game. Then again, the opposition was probably the best you can currently find in terms of possession football, and in terms of pressing. Yet, our lads managed to open up spaces for quick counters time and again, which probably was the plan, even at the cost of losing control of the game at times.
It was a problem a couple of seasons back, and we were giving up leads easily. Last season however as far as I recollect, once we were up we were damn sure we will see it out. It was very controlled, no nonsense passing between ourselves and saving our energy in process. This however reduced a bit this season I believe. Although a plenty can be attributed to individual errors as well, there are still gaps that opposition are able to exploit.

A reason for that is probably teams have understood how to get to us. However the incredible ability to bounce back from it is something new. The evolution of this team has been amazing actually. We use to play heavy metal 90 min entertaining football, the end of season and December issues crept. We resolved those through rotation, Jan breaks and conservation of energy during games. Our front 3 started getting heavily marked, we have started using our full backs and are opening teams up through the flank. Amazing adaption from Klopp.

Next would probably be our full backs being shut down. That'll either make our front 3 more dangerous and we may see our mid evolve and the likes of Ox and Keita becoming that key players to open teams up with the full backs or one of them going less forward.
 

LeoT

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Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
2,329
It's almost like they're sore losers who can't accept that they're being outplayed week-in, week-out by a better side who had a far tougher opening run of fixtures. Give that Chelsea are currently the bigger threat at the top of the table, a tasty draw after the break will be very welcome indeed.

I think Chelsea will do OK against ManC.

This season, ManC have relied on the ball being in the opponent's half for most of the game to keep their defensive record tight.
Their 2nd choice goalkeeper is like a hologram standing there, anything on target goes in.
Their other "Defenders" are great going forward but cant "Defend".

I think Willian, Pulisic and Abraham could do ManC some damage on the break.

....we could even get a chance to see Pep & Lamps with jackets off going for each other on the side lines, ...lost teeth and everything :)
 



Arminius

FSG PR plant
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Would prefer Chelsea winning this and then losing against some dross. Let's be honest not all teams in the league are going to take points off city and I would rather want the ones that have some hope to do so and all 3 if possible.
Most importantly, Guardiola's real priorities will always be the CL, and at the point where he doesn't see a realistic chance of overhauling LFC he is going to start making decisions accordingly. That won't be relevant until the knockout rounds come up, but City has a fairly demanding February in the league.
 

Red over the water

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May 13, 2018
Messages
2,379
The win over Man City feels great a couple of days later. Lots of time without club football now that the international break is on (again! Im sick of them already, but that’s another topic) and in the time “off” we can contemplate a great start to the season, and think about strengthening our grip on the lead with the fixtures between now and the halfway mark.

Man City are still fuming - back to Sterling in a minute. They can contemplate being hard done by if they want - a fool’s errand, and negative energy; they can contemplate the gap they have to make up, how perfect they have to be, and the difficult run of fixtures they have between now and the half way stage.

As for Sterling, first I want to say what’s good. He was a very good player when he left us (greed and impatience played a part in that, but as a player he was already very good). Since then he has progressed further, as he should have, and he has become world class, adding more end product to his promise.

Since leaving he has underperformed against us, and I thought he had his best game against us on Sunday - and he still got nothing, and went home with a 3-1 loss, a widened gap between us, and the boos and disdain of the Anfield crowd rightly ringing in his ears.

He was leaving his foot in as he was seeing his arse. The late challenge on VVD could have caused injury. He was also diving and looking for a penalty before that. Trent handled him very well. Gomez came on to help as Man City built up a head of steam towards the end, and he joined right in with not allowing them to get past us. It was perfect. Sterling was angry and squared up to Joe, who, credit to him, didn’t flatten him but arguably did something much more humiliating.

Gomez grabbed Sterling under the armpits, lifted him, moved him, and put him down. It was a masterful show of physical dominance.

I‘ve got a Jack Russell about the size of Sterling, and if you do that to the little fella he will try to bite you! HE thinks he’s a lion, even if he’s stuck in a small body.

Fast forward to the England setup, and Sterling keeps it going, nasty little Jack Russell that he is. Part of me would have liked Gomez to flatten him, but Gomez is a better man than I. Sterling was clearly seen as the aggressor, and Southgate, with the backing of the whole team, kicked Sterling to touch for a game.

I agree with Limiescouse in that Sterling’s apology was very inadequate. In a way I don’t expect any more from such a petulant, arrogant money grabber. But Southgate goes up in my book. Leadership. You’re out for the next game. The whole team is with me on this too. And even though Gomez is a fringe player for England, and Sterling a main man, that doesn’t come into it. Sterling was in the wrong. Well played Southgate.

Sterling is a nasty, snide piece of work. This will all add to the spice for next time we play them, as the rivalry grows.
 

Jimmyscase

DoctorJimmy: knee-high flying tackle specialist
Joined
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Messages
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In my estimation, Guardiola's got two chances left to win CL before his and City's ways part.
Our rivalry won't peak until the next Champions League matches we play them in.
I have a very strong feeling that won't be this season though.
The second league game this year in March won't be hugely significant I hope.
 

Arminius

FSG PR plant
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Messages
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The win over Man City feels great a couple of days later. Lots of time without club football now that the international break is on (again! Im sick of them already, but that’s another topic) and in the time “off” we can contemplate a great start to the season, and think about strengthening our grip on the lead with the fixtures between now and the halfway mark.
'''''

Sterling is a nasty, snide piece of work. This will all add to the spice for next time we play them, as the rivalry grows.
I wonder if it really will grow. This match may turn into one of greater significance, sometimes sports dynasties come to an end in a single encounter, but that doesn't seem clear until much later. I am thinking for example of how a year ago, Golden State in the NBA was being described as unbeatable and likely to win the next however many championships, and has crumbled since. Suppose LFC is able to hang on to win the title, Guardiola leaves at the end of this season, and a very talented side suddenly has a questionable defence and an aging core.

No question, the Citeh fans' hatred of Liverpool will grow, if that is even possible.
 



Arminius

FSG PR plant
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In my estimation, Guardiola's got two chances left to win CL before his and City's ways part.
Our rivalry won't peak until the next Champions League matches we play them in.
I have a very strong feeling that won't be this season though.
The second league game this year in March won't be hugely significant I hope.
I think the chances of Guardiola being at City next year are fast approaching zero. He even looks like he did in the Novembers before he announced he was leaving Barca and Bayern. I fully expect him to announce that he is leaving in June this December.
 

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
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Sort of realizing this evening just how much relief I am feeling - I had this quiet dread building all week that would have become stomach-turning during the match but for Fabinho's hammer blow so early on.
I was in my toxic orange Firmino jersey for this match, sitting in the sports bar waiting for the match and decided to go to the pool instead. There are a lot of UK folks here and one fella was getting updates to his phone, he was telling me the scoreline. 2-0 inside 15 min, I started on the tequila
 

Arminius

FSG PR plant
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Joined
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Messages
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I was in my toxic orange Firmino jersey for this match, sitting in the sports bar waiting for the match and decided to go to the pool instead. There are a lot of UK folks here and one fella was getting updates to his phone, he was telling me the scoreline. 2-0 inside 15 min, I started on the tequila
I hope you are a couple of time zones east of home, otherwise that is pretty darn early to be hitting the tequila.
 

Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
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Messages
8,721
I wonder if it really will grow. This match may turn into one of greater significance, sometimes sports dynasties come to an end in a single encounter, but that doesn't seem clear until much later. I am thinking for example of how a year ago, Golden State in the NBA was being described as unbeatable and likely to win the next however many championships, and has crumbled since. Suppose LFC is able to hang on to win the title, Guardiola leaves at the end of this season, and a very talented side suddenly has a questionable defence and an aging core.

No question, the Citeh fans' hatred of Liverpool will grow, if that is even possible.
Then they turn to the one man who can save them.... Mark Hughes!

Brexit happens and Mansour loses interest in his investment, withdraws funding and sells up to a hedge fund who liquidate the assets of the training facilities to sell for a housing development.
 

The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
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Just had a look at the Bluemoon forum, the post match thread is on page 131.
They're not too happy :)

Apparently Sterling was the MoTM , the officials are corrupt ...and KDB is too fat.
If they feel KDB is fat, they can sell him over to us for 100m. He is one hell of a player. Personally, Pep got the tactics wrong by asking KDB to gang up on TAA along with Sterling. If KDB was allowed to roam freely with his usual freedom, he would have hurt us, atleast a bit.
 



The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
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Messages
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I wonder if it really will grow. This match may turn into one of greater significance, sometimes sports dynasties come to an end in a single encounter, but that doesn't seem clear until much later. I am thinking for example of how a year ago, Golden State in the NBA was being described as unbeatable and likely to win the next however many championships, and has crumbled since. Suppose LFC is able to hang on to win the title, Guardiola leaves at the end of this season, and a very talented side suddenly has a questionable defence and an aging core.

No question, the Citeh fans' hatred of Liverpool will grow, if that is even possible.
I too think so. A loss against Chelsea, Silva getting punished for the tweet and their club getting punished for FFP fiasco, both manc and Pep will start unravelling fast.
 

Flobs

FADA
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Messages
9,155
I wonder if it really will grow. This match may turn into one of greater significance, sometimes sports dynasties come to an end in a single encounter, but that doesn't seem clear until much later. I am thinking for example of how a year ago, Golden State in the NBA was being described as unbeatable and likely to win the next however many championships, and has crumbled since. Suppose LFC is able to hang on to win the title, Guardiola leaves at the end of this season, and a very talented side suddenly has a questionable defence and an aging core.

No question, the Citeh fans' hatred of Liverpool will grow, if that is even possible.
The media need it more than anyone so it will grow. Hopefully not to the toxic levels we got to with Manure. They need this for their spins and it's clear who has which role, we are the ones to beat despite recent history. Just goes to show the esteem winning the CL has.
 



Arminius

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The media need it more than anyone so it will grow. Hopefully not to the toxic levels we got to with Manure. They need this for their spins and it's clear who has which role, we are the ones to beat despite recent history. Just goes to show the esteem winning the CL has.
I don't doubt the media will continue to try to sell it, but the media get this kind of thing wrong all the time. They will miss seismic events in the midst of running with their preconceived story. But my sense is that we might really be seeing the end of the Man City side built circa 2011-12 and brought to its peak by Guardiola. We will see stories about the 'rivalry', then maybe we go to Manchester, beat them again and become the side with the target on its back...and then next season it turns out it is Chelsea that is chasing close behind, not City.

A lot will depend on Guardiola's mental state, but as I have said before, I think he is burning out.
 

Magnus

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I didn't feel like writing much after the game. Didn't have much to say then. But now I can say that Fabino was by some distance, MotM in my eyes. Others played very well, Robertson, Alexander-Arnonld, Henderson played one of his best games in recent times ( I am sometimes critical of him, so have to note that), Salah, Firmino and Mane. But stand out performace was to me Fabino. Every time he had the ball, you could see that he wanted to create something, and usually he did, taking those broad arrogant steps forward, leaving City midfielders and strikers behind as he imperiously strode forth to administer a good pass. He didn't even pick up a yellow. Just perfect.
 



Magnus

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Messages
1,648
I wonder if it really will grow. This match may turn into one of greater significance, sometimes sports dynasties come to an end in a single encounter, but that doesn't seem clear until much later. I am thinking for example of how a year ago, Golden State in the NBA was being described as unbeatable and likely to win the next however many championships, and has crumbled since. Suppose LFC is able to hang on to win the title, Guardiola leaves at the end of this season, and a very talented side suddenly has a questionable defence and an aging core.

No question, the Citeh fans' hatred of Liverpool will grow, if that is even possible.
Don't forget that the aging squad has a considerable amount of what should have been the state budget of the United Arab Emirates, an artificial oil state. So if Mansour gets a new bright idea as to how he wants to waste his money, he can indeed afford to fuel in 2 Billion pounds etc. As along as City has a care free Arab prince as owner, they can buy anything and anyone in theory. Imo you should be careful about writing them off (saw another of your posts previous in the thread, but forgot to add it to my comment), and we have seen little evidence of Manchester City actually having a bad season. Our season is just preposterous results-wise so far, but City played very, very well aginst us after all. I would not write off either that team or Pep. Too early for sch thoughts in my opinion.
 

Arminius

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Don't forget that the aging squad has a considerable amount of what should have been the state budget of the United Arab Emirates, an artificial oil state. So if Mansour gets a new bright idea as to how he wants to waste his money, he can indeed afford to fuel in 2 Billion pounds etc. As along as City has a care free Arab prince as owner, they can buy anything and anyone in theory. Imo you should be careful about writing them off (saw another of your posts previous in the thread, but forgot to add it to my comment), and we have seen little evidence of Manchester City actually having a bad season. Our season is just preposterous results-wise so far, but City played very, very well aginst us after all. I would not write off either that team or Pep. Too early for sch thoughts in my opinion.
No doubt, they still have a core that can compete with anyone, and indeed win the Champions League this season. However, it is an aging core - I think it was Sweeting who figured they needed up to 8 players in the next 2-3 transfer windows. Even setting aside the finances, that is a lot of new players to integrate. FFP is clearly having some kind of effect on their thinking, endless willingness to appeal ad nauseum notwithstanding. I am not suggesting they are in relegation danger or anything silly, just that they appear to be nearing the end of the line. I don't really envy Guardiola's successor. Their season this year is not bad, but it looks poor compared to last season, and that is going to be a very high standard to take over.