Post Match: Liverpool v Man City (EPL 7/10/18 4.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 11 6.7%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 24 14.7%
  • Lovren

    Votes: 58 35.6%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 23 14.1%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 5 3.1%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 15 9.2%
  • Milner (off 28’)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Henderson

    Votes: 26 16.0%
  • Salah

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Firmino (off 72')

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Keita (on 28’)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sturridge (on 72')

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    163
  • Poll closed .

Walshy07

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I hate international breaks but I welcome one this time - although how good it is to send players around the world in a new pointless friendly mode i dont know - but LFC players have had it tough last month so maybe 10 days away from the pressure of LFC will be a good thing.

We really need a creative midfielder. Nabby isnt happening for us at the moment. Ox is injured and we miss his drive. Can really see why Klopp wanted Fekir.
Its great we are not conceding but something or someone - is missing at the moment. We have no creativity in the middle at all. No one who can see that special pass or find any gaps.
Milner, Hendo and Gino will all put in a shift but ideally only one of them plays alongside an in form Nabby and Coutinho's replacement whom we haven't replaced yet and its showing.
Be amazed if Ramsey or Fekir dont arrive on the quiet in Jan ala VVD last year.
 

Keegans Perm

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I hate international breaks but I welcome one this time - although how good it is to send players around the world in a new pointless friendly mode i dont know - but LFC players have had it tough last month so maybe 10 days away from the pressure of LFC will be a good thing.

We really need a creative midfielder. Nabby isnt happening for us at the moment. Ox is injured and we miss his drive. Can really see why Klopp wanted Fekir.
Its great we are not conceding but something or someone - is missing at the moment. We have no creativity in the middle at all. No one who can see that special pass or find any gaps.
Milner, Hendo and Gino will all put in a shift but ideally only one of them plays alongside an in form Nabby and Coutinho's replacement whom we haven't replaced yet and its showing.
Be amazed if Ramsey or Fekir dont arrive on the quiet in Jan ala VVD last year.
I completely agree with you. Yes the front 3 have been poor, with sloppy passing, poor ball control and terrible shooting but players like Salah and Mane like to get in behind defenders running at them at pace. There was no one in that midfield that was capable of a defence slicing pass, or a dribble to beat one of City's midfielders to draw one of their defenders out to create more space for the front 3 to run into. This is the player I wanted Keita to be, but as of yet he isn't filling me with much confidence. I know its early in his Liverpool career but we spent near enough 50 million on him, and that for me should be a guaranteed starter every week. Look at Jorghino at Chelsea, slots straights in and instantly impacts their team, starting many of their attacks with forward passes. Maybe because it was City, Klopp decided to go for the hard working 3 he can trust to put a shift in, but I just thought when Keita came on, that was his chance to shine against the best in the league, but it didnt happen. At the end of the day im happy about where we are in the league, not even close to being our best but its so frustrating how now weve finally sorted that defence out, its the attacking sense which is letting us down.
 

Red over the water

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It’s an old adage but a good defence is what title challenges are built on. We have that and I expect us to go close. We haven’t found the best midfield blend yet, but I expect Keita and Fabinho to come more to the fore as the season progresses. Klopp plays a very technical game and he wants very specific things from his midfielders - closing space down, pressing as a group and so on. If Fabinho and Keita would have just gone out and played their natural games in the run of fixtures we’ve had so far, I suspect we may have lost a game or two. Not because they are bad players, but because they haven’t yet fully integrated with what the manager wants them to do, and the margin for error is very small against the likes of Man City, Chelsea and Spurs. Comparisons with the fast start Jorginho has made at Chelsea are reasonable, but still wide of the mark for me. All players are individuals, and we must remember the time Jorginho spent with Sarri in Italy. He knows exactly what his manager wants from him.

Great actors must first learn their lines, then they go out and put in a performance that moves the soul. A couple of our players are still learning their lines, but there is more to come.

What next? Like everyone had said, we have an easier run of fixtures coming up. I fully expect to see more of Keita and Fabinho. We will get a few more wins on the board and they will start to grow in confidence as they are integrated into the side.

As for the front three, we should persist. They will find their shooting boots and their level will improve. When it does, someone, somewhere, is going to receive a hammering. It might even be Huddersfield.

Overall I’m very pleased with the league start. Six wins and two draws, on the basis of a solid defence, with some difficult fixtures now behind us, and the promise of more to come in midfield and attack. Game on!
 
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RedForever2014

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Come on you are shifting the goal posts, you specifically said technical ability and now you are rating on ability.

To quote you "That said, I did think many of their players did look superior technically" so you are basing it on the match watched, hence why depth has no relevance.

Yesterday overall they had the slight edge on technical ability in their central midfielders, no where else.
In any case, my point remains that our midfielders aren't as technically sound as those of Chelsea and City.
 

Red over the water

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It looks to me like Man City have a strong number 6 in Fernandinho (dirty, sticks his foot and elbow in, but definitley the sort you need on your side in a battle) and then creative types that seem more like a typical number 10. So they do look very technical in the middle, certainly in relation to the level we are currently operating at.

On our side there is more to come, and we haven’t found the best midfield blend or reached anything like optimal levels, whereas Man City are sorted in this area of the pitch, even with KDB out injured.
 

1dragon

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I would like to see Shaqiri have a go at CM. I believe he will offer something more going forward and also a goal threat. After all, we carried Coutinho with a defence consisting of Moreno and Lovren-Matip, so what else can be worse?

A point against city is always good. But this means we need to turn more draws into wins and aim for a win in the reverse fixture.
 

GermanRed

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With Fabinho and Keita still settling there should be a yet in your post.:-)
Jamie Carragher: "Even if Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain comes back, [Naby] Keita goes in or Fabinho goes in they are all the same. Liverpool don't play with a number ten, but there's no David Silva or Bernardo Silva or a player like that in the squad.
 
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Jamie Carragher: "Even if Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain comes back, [Naby] Keita goes in or Fabinho goes in they are all the same. Liverpool don't play with a number ten, but there's no David Silva or Bernardo Silva or a player like that in the squad.
Keita and Ox maybe similar and possibly could do a ten job but Fabinho is very different.
 

Walshy07

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I completely agree with you. Yes the front 3 have been poor, with sloppy passing, poor ball control and terrible shooting but players like Salah and Mane like to get in behind defenders running at them at pace. There was no one in that midfield that was capable of a defence slicing pass, or a dribble to beat one of City's midfielders to draw one of their defenders out to create more space for the front 3 to run into. This is the player I wanted Keita to be, but as of yet he isn't filling me with much confidence. I know its early in his Liverpool career but we spent near enough 50 million on him, and that for me should be a guaranteed starter every week. Look at Jorghino at Chelsea, slots straights in and instantly impacts their team, starting many of their attacks with forward passes. Maybe because it was City, Klopp decided to go for the hard working 3 he can trust to put a shift in, but I just thought when Keita came on, that was his chance to shine against the best in the league, but it didnt happen. At the end of the day im happy about where we are in the league, not even close to being our best but its so frustrating how now weve finally sorted that defence out, its the attacking sense which is letting us down.
Keita come on and his passing was sloppy and slow. The game just passed him by. Couple of his passes got intercepted. I guess it will take him time to adapt so I wont be too harsh on him but if we are still having this conversation in Jan then maybe we will have a problem.

I always think the problem of "not playing well and winning/not losing" is, what happens when you do lose? Then you are not playing well and not winning or drawing. You then have a problem.
We were a wonder strike away from losing at Chelsea. We lost to them in Cup - albeit lots of changes, Lost to Napoli and drew with City which isnt to be sniffed at but if anyone looked like winning that game it wasn't us.

We just dont look right at the moment from midfield to forwards and I think thats down to Nabby adapting, Ox injured and no Phil replacement.
I said in the summer we were one short and thats before they announced Ox was out for pretty much the whole season.
 

Walshy07

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It looks to me like Man City have a strong number 6 in Fernandinho (dirty, sticks his foot and elbow in, but definitley the sort you need on your side in a battle) and then creative types that seem more like a typical number 10. So they do look very technical in the middle, certainly in relation to the level we are currently operating at.
.
I think once he has been Klopped so to speak Fabinho will be our Fernandinho.
 

Red over the water

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I think once he has been Klopped so to speak Fabinho will be our Fernandinho.
I think this is a good point, and I want to extend it to Keita, who has also yet to be ‘Klopped.”

I don’t have a direct player comparison for Keita, but in due course I expect to see more of him dribbling, beating a man, passing it forwards with authority, and chipping in with a couple of goals.
 

LeoT

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Who did Sadio kick in the head today??


should have been Fern
In all honesty it was a great game purely on it intensity. I gave Gini MoM, his work rate, touch etc was first class. Hopefully some of the haters took note
Gini was My MotM too, he was a beast without possession, and really composed in it.
 

Foldy

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Keita can be a no.10
I meant Ox and Keita being similar to each other,Silva and Benado weren't that great yesterday but to say they'll never be similar is rubbish imo,
In style of play no, but taking on the role of a no.10 they could. Keita has virtually been like a no.10 in earlier games. I don't honestly want a 'Coutinho' playing for us. He hindered more than he helped at times, for every 20 yarder he smashed in how many did he miss or not lay off to players in position. I'd love Draxler to be brought in because there are so many attacking positions he can cover and the thought of him behind Bobby makes me moist....what??....I said what!?
 

LeoT

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Do you think there is a case for a 3 at the back option and pushing Trent and Andy into LWB/RWB positions higher up the field? Gomez, VVD and Lovren are all fucking immense. Would allow Salah and Mane to tuck in a little more and attack in conjunction with Bobby but still give out options on the wings.

...if it ain't broke
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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I meant Ox and Keita being similar to each other,Silva and Benado weren't that great yesterday but to say they'll never be similar is rubbish imo,
You're sort of right. Despite what people think about Ox; he was our 'Driver' in regards that he wanted to pick the ball up in midfield and run at the opposition centre-backs. I have seen Keita do this also, but yesterday he was reluctant to turn and drive- he chose to go backwards. I'm not going to criticize him too much because of the magnitude of the fixture and the opposition. Plus, both managers set up not to concede, so I'm sure he was told not to take many risks in where an interception in midfield could initiate a counter attack. Against lesser opposition I would like to see him going back to those driving runs from midfield. The more he does this the more confident he will be doing it. In turn, Jurgs will trust him to do it in the big games and therefore instruct him to do this in the prep for the game. But, like I say; we'll forgive for being slightly negative, because if he had have given a goal away, then that would have knocked him back a bit.
 

RedForever2014

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With Fabinho and Keita still settling there should be a yet in your post.:-)
True.

I'm happy with most things, I just think that we should never, as a club, lose sight of the fact that ultimately the clubs that win most things tend to have the best players.

It's great when work ethic, mentality, teamwork, all make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. It's great when the way the team is set up benefits players and allows them to use their attributes fully. Salah for example benefitting from Bobby's efforts.

My point is just that the better the underlying parts the better the whole they can form and there's only so far you can go when the parts are lacking.

Fabinho and Keita have yet to settle, but we still lack that technically gifted playmaker until we sign one, or Keita becomes one, if indeed it's his intended role. I believe Shaqiri could play 10 effectively, definitely against everyone but the very top sides. But is he as good as last season's Coutinho then Oxlade?

At the moment we're short that player. Given that we went for Fekir, it was clearly felt we needed that type of player on top of those that came.

We definitely need a bit more finesse in midfield IMO.
 



loudmouthmiller1892

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True.

I'm happy with most things, I just think that we should never, as a club, lose sight of the fact that ultimately the clubs that win most things tend to have the best players.

It's great when work ethic, mentality, teamwork, all make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. It's great when the way the team is set up benefits players and allows them to use their attributes fully. Salah for example benefitting from Bobby's efforts.

My point is just that the better the underlying parts the better the whole they can form and there's only so far you can go when the parts are lacking.

Fabinho and Keita have yet to settle, but we still lack that technically gifted playmaker until we sign one, or Keita becomes one, if indeed it's his intended role. I believe Shaqiri could play 10 effectively, definitely against everyone but the very top sides. But is he as good as last season's Coutinho then Oxlade?

At the moment we're short that player. Given that we went for Fekir, it was clearly felt we needed that type of player on top of those that came.

We definitely need a bit more finesse in midfield IMO.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. But, I believe that we are trying to bridge a gap (between us and City) that has been created through, pretty much, money alone. City can go and buy all the superstars that are out there (give or take). So we have to accumulate really good players (or the best we can afford) and bring them on as individuals and in our system. Unfortunately, that takes a bit of time. We are definitely closing the gap with every acquisition that we make. Put it this way: we need Jurgen more than City need Pep, because they will always have the pick of the bunch. To ensure some sort of success all they need do is not install some boring manager (like Mourinho) who tries to make truly attacking players into a defensive side. That's where he falls short in a lot of his appointments, because the players get pissed off, and he either has to move on or make wholesale changes in the squad. We need Jurgs to construct a really good unit out of players who are not the very, very best. Although, we don't have a boss #10 we do have great players in other depts.
We used to rely on a superb 10, but it became more of a luxury in the end. The proof is that Courtinho didn't always start- even before all the Barca crap. But, you are right; everybody needs a great 10. I was looking forward to Fekihr, but shit happens. So, we therefore look towards Jan. Will FSG release the funds? Also, who's out there? Another thing is; what creatives are out there who don't mind doing loads of graft off the ball. As you saw with Neymar and Mbappe, some people think they are too good for this. So, in our system we need someone good enough but humble enough to graft. Proof of this is the fact that Bobby is nailed on, even though Studge is more technically gifted and has much more finesse. I know that is a different position- but you see my point.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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Just re-watched the game on LFC TV and couldn't help noticing just how gone Wijnaldum was. Changed my MOTM vote to Gini. A brilliant and under-rated player.
Agree. He excels in games which are tailor-made for him and struggles in ones which are not. That's life. Picking him for the games which suit him and leaving him out of the games which don't is the manager's job. I feel sorry for him sometimes when he struggles, because it is obvious the system doesn't suit him. Most people assume he's had a nightmare because they don't fully understand what is going on why it is happening. Hendo has been lifting his head up lately and at least trying to play a nice forward pass to get something going. I hope Gini is inspired and does the same. He'll be a much better player for it.
 

Drubas

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Feels like we have had a dip in form, so 0-0 is not the end of the world.

Last couple of years, a dip in form usually meant lots of dropped points. Now we are still tied at the top of the table.

I'm hoping we start rotating more now. Sturridge, Shaqiri and Fabinho.
 

loudmouthmiller1892

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Feels like we have had a dip in form, so 0-0 is not the end of the world.

Last couple of years, a dip in form usually meant lots of dropped points. Now we are still tied at the top of the table.

I'm hoping we start rotating more now. Sturridge, Shaqiri and Fabinho.
The easier fixture list will ensure we play with a bit more pomp, so the front three should start firing. Either way; if our defence keeps playing as well as they are doing then we don't 3, 4 or 5 goals, we just need 1 or maybe 2. That's progress in itself.