• Hey Guest!
    Enjoy the This Is Anfield Forums but want to remove the adverts? Now you can do so by clicking here.
    Thanks for your support!

Post Match: Liverpool v Napoli (UCL 27/11/2019 8pm)

Man of the Match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lovren

    Votes: 57 80.3%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 6 8.5%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 5 7.0%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Milner

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • Henderson

    Votes: 22 31.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 10 14.1%
  • Salah

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Firmino

    Votes: 7 9.9%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 2 2.8%
  • Oxlade-Chamberlain

    Votes: 6 8.5%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    71
  • Poll closed .

sportbilly1966

TIA New Signing
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
2,649
The LiVARpool narrative is a convenient way of dismissing the actual truth concerning decisions and biases.
Its the best method of dealing with what is plain to see, try to persuade people that the opposite is true.
No chance of converting those that think we are benefitting because they are fans of other teams and only see highlights of supposed controversial decisions that go for us.
 


jaffod

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
2,696
In all honesty a performance like this has been coming for a few weeks. Ok we've taken points but have not played as we know we can. We've scraped through by the late goal or VAR decision. It's a game to put behind us and go into a horrible amount of fixtures in the coming month. I'm just hoping that we can avoid another run of games like the results we had this time last year. Gave Lovren my MOM for the goal and a decent performance.
:unsure: We won every game we played last December.
 

William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
2,241
Gave MoM to Lovren for the goal, but thought the game was poor. There were times when we were so wasteful in front of goal and, although we improved slightly in the second half, our passing was at times frenetic. We still have it all to do over in Salzburg and we certainly won’t find it easy. They will attack us and this will give us more space to play in and hopefully get a couple of goals. This is one game were we need to keep a clean sheet. The only good thing to come of the game is that we didn’t get beat, but we could have made it so much easier for ourselves.
 

Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
2,307
I am actually a bit confused by the lack of clean sheets. What has changed so much between last year and now? And it's not just Lovren or Matip we are conceding notwithstanding who is playing. I thought Adrian playing in the initial few games might be a reason for some lack of chemistry in the back 5, but Alisson coming hasn't changed us conceding every game.
It's very rarely a matter of personnel. What about current form across the team? I can't remember a time in recent history where our performances in late October to early December have been good. It's just a regular down point in our season, like mid-jan-early Feb usually is, coincidence or not. We as fans must accept that there will be down points in a season, performance-wise and be patient enough to allow them to improve without external pressure.

Also, far too much is being made of the clean sheets figure. I don't think a long string of clean sheets should be an expectation. Especially if we still get wins. Or last season shouldn't be seen as the norm. Keep in mind we haven't conceded more than once at Anfield in God knows how long.

What about the influence of the opposition? We got like 97 points last season. You don't think every coach in the league is now gunning for us and trying to break our tactics apart? If you are at the top of the league, then you better bring your A-game because you can bet your life the opposing coach has done his homework. I feel that on occasion our A- game has been stifled by the opponent's tactics as well.

I feel Ancelotti has a bit of a hard-on for us. Because he didn't get the job? No doubt he would have been telling his players that this was a cup final for them.
 

jredp

Let's talk about 6 baby!
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
275
VVD was definitely fouled as he hardly ever (more like, he never pretends) goes down claiming a free kick. Italians invented cheating to win, and unfortunately have now mastered it. They didn't come to play football, having not only parked a few double-deckers but also had the wall built in front of their goal.
 



KillerBeeLFC

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
1,212
Can't understand why we rested Trent for this one. If we'd of won we make the final group game obsolete plus we have Brighton next who are not as strong as Napoli. It was a bit of a mad decision.
Gomez at right back in our system just doesn't work. We need a more creative man in midfield if we are putting him right back. Not the lads fault but Gomez just isn't a right back in our system. Hendo would be better suited right back than Gomez for me.
Lovrens been impressive lately. There have been times when I've cringed when hes on the team sheet but hes slowly putting that fear to bed. MOTM for me.
Their goal shouldn't of stood but a draws prob a fair result as we were a bit shit.
Hopefully Fabs ok, he'll be a big miss if not.
All in all, not the end of the world but feel its a bit of a miss opportunity.
 

William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
2,241
Can't understand why we rested Trent for this one. If we'd of won we make the final group game obsolete plus we have Brighton next who are not as strong as Napoli. It was a bit of a mad decision.
Gomez at right back in our system just doesn't work. We need a more creative man in midfield if we are putting him right back. Not the lads fault but Gomez just isn't a right back in our system. Hendo would be better suited right back than Gomez for me.
Lovrens been impressive lately. There have been times when I've cringed when hes on the team sheet but hes slowly putting that fear to bed. MOTM for me.
Their goal shouldn't of stood but a draws prob a fair result as we were a bit shit.
Hopefully Fabs ok, he'll be a big miss if not.
All in all, not the end of the world but feel its a bit of a miss opportunity.
I agree it was a bit of a strange decision to rest Trent and his crosses were definitely missed. Saying that, Napoli did have a pair of centre backs who were top dogs on the night, so Trent's crosses may not have amounted to much. Still, it was strange Trent was on the bench the other night.
 

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.
Admin
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
23,080
I agree it was a bit of a strange decision to rest Trent and his crosses were definitely missed. Saying that, Napoli did have a pair of centre backs who were top dogs on the night, so Trent's crosses may not have amounted to much. Still, it was strange Trent was on the bench the other night.
Koulibaly especially was impressive. In the four games we have played against them, he has been fantastic. He'd do well for us alongside VVD I reckon...
 

KillerBeeLFC

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
1,212
I agree it was a bit of a strange decision to rest Trent and his crosses were definitely missed. Saying that, Napoli did have a pair of centre backs who were top dogs on the night, so Trent's crosses may not have amounted to much. Still, it was strange Trent was on the bench the other night.
I dont think it was even just his crosses, he does those early balls to salah before their defence is even set and he knows when to play it on the floor if needed. Gomez just goes back every time and we lose momentum which is a bit frustrating. It might of been a case of trying to get gomez back to full strength and resting trent at the same time but hopefully weve learned we need creativity from somewhere else if we play gomez there.

Koulibaly especially was impressive. In the four games we have played against them, he has been fantastic. He'd do well for us alongside VVD I reckon...
I was talking to a lad who watches a lot more Italian footy than me and he says he gives away pointless fouls (not sure if hes right?) but fucking hell hes immense against us. If van dijk played on the right and we had koul too no one would ever score against us ha.
 

Incognito

The Normal One
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
2,885
I am not sure about Koulibali, he played in a system which was very good defensively. He has struggled against Salah everytime he's faced him and should have again conceded a penalty this game as well. Could be similar to the case @Sweeting mentioned about Haaland.
 



Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
13,970
We have had a row of strong opponents and tough fixtures lately. That could explain the lack of clean sheets. Let's see how Brighton will do at Anfield this week-end.
It's also rarely bad defending. While it's gone on for a while, which makes the explanation of it solely just being luck or "one of those things" less viable, it does seem to be largely that. despite the fact we cannot seem to keep clean sheets, with the caveat that I have seen little of the CL games in which our defending seems to have been more problematic, I dont see much wrong with the way we're defending.
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
13,970
I was talking to a lad who watches a lot more Italian footy than me and he says he gives away pointless fouls (not sure if hes right?) but fucking hell hes immense against us. If van dijk played on the right and we had koul too no one would ever score against us ha.
It helps your ability to be impressive when you;re allowed to manhandle the forward your playing against. Early on, Mo actually confused him into falling over. The way he responded to that was only possible with a ref who didnt care.
 

Jimmyscase

DoctorJimmy: knee-high flying tackle specialist
Joined
May 18, 2016
Messages
4,001
It's also rarely bad defending. While it's gone on for a while, which makes the explanation of it solely just being luck or "one of those things" less viable, it does seem to be largely that. despite the fact we cannot seem to keep clean sheets, with the caveat that I have seen little of the CL games in which our defending seems to have been more problematic, I dont see much wrong with the way we're defending.
You can't always put it down to poor defensive skills or decisions; that much is true in what you say. We were definitely set up by the coaches differently last season. VAR has led us astray in thinking VAR offsides can be counted on to overturn any goal we concede with a perfectly functioning but very high offside trap. Not only is that not entirely true but it seems as though the difficulty of the high line psychologically tires us and our concentration in the normal one-on-one challenges and positioning.
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
13,970
A high line has always been a part of Klopp's approach. This is not new. I think what we're seeing is an element of what @Gone Kloppo suggested, that other teams have formulated a way to try to exploit it. Other teams have good coaches too.
 

Jimmyscase

DoctorJimmy: knee-high flying tackle specialist
Joined
May 18, 2016
Messages
4,001
A high line has always been a part of Klopp's approach.
I should have made it crystal clear that I think it is even higher this season in the league. I thought it would be obvious from my comments about VAR that I was making a comparison in the way we set up previously and now in the league.
In the competitive matches we played with VAR use last year we probably hadn't yet drilled the higher line so intensely. Keeping a clean sheet at Anfield against Barcelona should be highlighted and played back to our players until they are sick of it.
 



Iluvatar

Allez (x6)
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
7,893
A high line has always been a part of Klopp's approach. This is not new. I think what we're seeing is an element of what @Gone Kloppo suggested, that other teams have formulated a way to try to exploit it. Other teams have good coaches too.
It is also down to player differences. Lovren played well (for the most part) but he fundementally does not suit how we play and could have done far better for their goal. (Hate him but he knows about defending) Rio commented the goal could have been avoided if Liverpool had a better suited defender instead of Lovren. Lovren didn't fancy a foot race so took the risk of playing offside - It backfired, the player was onside and he was miles beind play because he pushed up rather than follow the run. Van Dijk is confident he would beat pretty much any player he makes the decision to go 1 on 1 etc.

This is why I don't get Gomez not starting, his recovery pace is up there with Van Dijk and thats key with the high line we play.

I'm not slating Lovren, I just don't think he suits playing how we do - He is like Skrtel was, amazing when your defending your 6 yard box and need to throw your body on the line.. Get him 1 v 1 he is all at sea and gives up silly panic fouls (see nearly breaking Fabinho's ankle).
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
13,970
I should have made it crystal clear that I think it is even higher this season in the league. I thought it would be obvious from my comments about VAR that I was making a comparison in the way we set up previously and now in the league.
In the competitive matches we played with VAR use last year we probably hadn't yet drilled the higher line so intensely. Keeping a clean sheet at Anfield against Barcelona should be highlighted and played back to our players until they are sick of it.
You were clear and I fully understood your point. I just see no evidence of it being true. Nor do I think it makes sense that a coach would move the line forward just because VAR exists.

If you want to put pressure on the ball you need to close the space between the lines so there is less room to play through the pressure. When you want to win the ball high up in the opposition half that requires the defensive line be high. A second basic truism is that a high line is easier to exploit if you give the opposition time on the ball. What I see is that this year we are pressing less and that makes it a bit easier for someone in possession to connect with a runner getting in behind. Couple that with the fact that opposition teams have had more time to work on figuring out how to exploit it and what we're seeing this season is the result.

As for the Barca game, they probably should have scored a few but choked.
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
13,970
It is also down to player differences. Lovren played well (for the most part) but he fundementally does not suit how we play and could have done far better for their goal. (Hate him but he knows about defending) Rio commented the goal could have been avoided if Liverpool had a better suited defender instead of Lovren. Lovren didn't fancy a foot race so took the risk of playing offside - It backfired, the player was onside and he was miles beind play because he pushed up rather than follow the run. Van Dijk is confident he would beat pretty much any player he makes the decision to go 1 on 1 etc.

This is why I don't get Gomez not starting, his recovery pace is up there with Van Dijk and thats key with the high line we play.

I'm not slating Lovren, I just don't think he suits playing how we do - He is like Skrtel was, amazing when your defending your 6 yard box and need to throw your body on the line.. Get him 1 v 1 he is all at sea and gives up silly panic fouls (see nearly breaking Fabinho's injury).
Lovren not fancying a foot race was the sane decision. Mertens is quicker than him, and as he was exploiting the space left by the downed Virgil lovren was going to have to make up ground on him if he chose to try to get back. Sometimes defending you pick the least shit of your shit options. When a defender makes one and a goal is scored I think it's a lazy analysis to just state the counter factual as fact that the other option would have been better. I get your point about Gomez's cover pace giving us extra security, but no way in hell would Matip have been able to get back, and he played at least half our season last year in which we looked defensively great.

I think this also goes back to @Gone Kloppo point - the opposition is allowed to have talented players who execute well as well. There was cynical bullshit that create the opportunity for them, which put us at a huge disadvantage from the start. However, it still needed a rapid response and superb execution to exploit it. You play good teams and that happens.
 

Lowton_Red

No football club is successful without hard work.
Ad-free Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2015
Messages
2,186
Well, I can complain about VAR. Personally confused about how that goal stood today, given the clear foul by Mertens on Van Dijk, given that VAR ruled out a clear foul/red card/penalty against Real yesterday in basically the exact same situation. But then I remember that United game a few weeks back when Origi was booted off the ball and United went up the other end to score, and it stood.

But that's all okay, because we're apparently LiVARpool, and the FA, media, UEFA, FIFA, and the Illuminati are all involved in a mass conspiracy to ensure we win the league, Champions League, FA Cup, Twenty-20, the general election, and the Tour De France.
Ignoring the obvious foul on VVD, I am more concerned that the VAR chose to view the offside from an image which made the relative position of the players ambiguous to say the least.
In the VAR image it appears as though Robertson might be playing Mertens onside.

However, there is another view which, I believe, clearly casts doubt on that decision.

 



KillerBeeLFC

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
1,212
Ignoring the obvious foul on VVD, I am more concerned that the VAR chose to view the offside from an image which made the relative position of the players ambiguous to say the least.
In the VAR image it appears as though Robertson might be playing Mertens onside.

However, there is another view which, I believe, clearly casts doubt on that decision.

I could see it was off, really was baffled when the goal stood.
 

William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
2,241
Koulibaly especially was impressive. In the four games we have played against them, he has been fantastic. He'd do well for us alongside VVD I reckon...
Koulibaly, I couldn’t agree with you more. Those two together would be immense.

I’m thinking of a rock and a hard place.
 
Last edited:

The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
4,944
I am not a fan of our current midfield because to play Henderson and Wijnaldum together in the midfield meant we will be relying heavily on fullbacks and Firmino to create goals. If Firmino is off on the day, we then tend to cross the ball into the box aimlessly like we are these days. We don't have a towering striker that could match any centrehalves in aerial duel, and to keep hitting the ball high into the box won't solve our lack of goal problems.
Play VVD upfront... :LOL:
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
13,970
I feel Ancelotti has a bit of a hard-on for us. Because he didn't get the job? No doubt he would have been telling his players that this was a cup final for them.
He's lost 2 CL finals to us (albeit missed the first final in 84 through injury), one of which in historical circumstances.