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Post match: Liverpool v Salzburg (UCL 2/10/2019 8pm)

Man of the Match

  • Adrian

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 5 4.6%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Robertson [GOAL 25']

    Votes: 59 54.6%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 20 18.5%
  • Henderson [off 60']

    Votes: 4 3.7%
  • Wijnaldum [off 64']

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • Salah [GOAL 36', 69', off 90']

    Votes: 30 27.8%
  • Firmino

    Votes: 35 32.4%
  • Mane [GOAL 9']

    Votes: 28 25.9%
  • Milner [on 60']

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • Origi [on 64']

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Keita [on 90']

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    108
  • Poll closed .

Red Armada

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I made the point about rotation because the way we are playing this season is tiring, for both CBs but particularly for the midfielders. We are so high up that they have to keep pressure on the ball. If we relax at all and give quality players time they will just pick us off and exploit the spaces. If JK is going with Fabinho, Henderson and Gini every game and expects them to play like that then we're going to have to expect a drop off in intensity in the midfield occasionally and that leaves us exposed. If rest isn't an option then changing the way we are set up might be.

Our midfielders were goosed in that second half. It may be early season but they are doing a lot of chasing and last night they came up against a team that was at least as fit as we are. Probably the fittest team we'll face all season. We were overrun in that second half until the substitutions and the change of shape, at which point we looked like we had a semblance of control again.

Obviously we are brilliant and Klopp is a genius. I don't want to give the impression that the world is falling in on us because it isn't. I just think there is an inherent risk in the way we are playing this season which was exposed last night.
While I agree that they way we're set up is conducive to being more open and is probably more taxiing for the defenders, I don't think that those 30 minutes were a matter of physical exertion. After going 3 goals up and completely dominating them, we fell asleep. We became complacent and stopped playing. All three of their goals involve one or more players failing at the most basic of things like in the case of their second goal preventing the free kick from being taken quickly and tracking their scorer. Salzburg is a good team but they weren't nearly as threatening before that 30-minute spell or afterwards when Klopp changed the system.

It was a weird night from start to finish. In the first 35 minutes we were absolutely imperious, in the following 30 the worst we've been all season. In the end we scraped through but in all honesty it's set the alarms off for me. Seeing the team being this absent-minded wasn't good. Particularly when one of the culprits was Van Dijk, who had his worst game for the club by a mile.

One thing is for sure. Saturday's game against Leicester suddenly feels more important and difficult.
 


Flobs

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I think we need to rethink the strategy at the right side of our pitch. If TAA is caught far up, our RCM must have the recovery pace to cover TAA so that our RCB wouldn't be drawn out. I wouldn't be surprised to see Hendo get benched this weekend for either keita or AOC...

We would also need to rethink our very high line. It is offensively good as we see today in the first half but it drains a lot out of our midfielders and CBs. Would it be better to drop the line back by a few yards once we get a 2 goals lead???
Our CB's get pulled out far too easily (and soon) and far imo I've been going on about it for years now CB's are there to cover the center not the wings. Even so surely if your CB gets pulled out there should be a DM to come in and cover the center spot vacated (Fabinho for me was pushingup too far last night and not covering our defense).
Oh! and Gomez was stepping up too much making VVD's job of covering far too difficult. Seeing the difference between what goes on when Matip plays to when Gomez plays I think we can say that it's all anout teething problems due to Gomez' lack of playing time and coming back from injury. Something we are just going to have to be patient over for the sake of Gomez. :)
 

Flobs

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I asked this in the ingame thread - asking again -
did it look like at one point in the first half that Robbo playing on the right and TAA on the left?
Yes often happens after set pieces. They are used to it. They wait for a good opportunity to swap back rather than panic about it (they seem comfortable with it). I am sure I will be corrected if i'm wrong but i think it's because Robbo covers the near post and TAA the far post at opposition free kicks.
 

sportbilly1966

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Thats a very valid point, just watched it again and he could have done better.
At times tonight I was reminded of the Barca game last season when our attacking play in the first 35mins was sublime. Not that we need reminding of the score on that night but the "nil" was just as important as the 4 we scored. Obviuosly people will think I'm harping on about it but in general I feel we haven't defended well enough this season. I don't expect us not to concede goals but I watched many games last season and was never fearful that we were vulnerable, I don't feel that secure so far this season to be brutally honest. Having Alisson back will help but I'd be willing to bet Klopp will not be happy with what he saw in tonights game both in terms of keeping them out and in how his midfield struggled with runners from deep.
At the moment it appears that we are reliant too much on playing offside, which we are mostly doing very well, however, we are struggling with teams/players that have intelligent movement in behind, an example is Pukki for Norwich. Add to this that we also seem to be marking space, we are tending to miss the runners especially when teams overload us which is happening to Trent quite a lot.
We need to wise up and realise that at times we also have to follow the runner up.
 

Billy Biskix

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While I agree that they way we're set up is conducive to being more open and is probably more taxiing for the defenders, I don't think that those 30 minutes were a matter of physical exertion. After going 3 goals up and completely dominating them, we fell asleep. We became complacent and stopped playing. All three of their goals involve one or more players failing at the most basic of things like in the case of their second goal preventing the free kick from being taken quickly and tracking their scorer. Salzburg is a good team but they weren't nearly as threatening before that 30-minute spell or afterwards when Klopp changed the system.

It was a weird night from start to finish. In the first 35 minutes we were absolutely imperious, in the following 30 the worst we've been all season. In the end we scraped through but in all honesty it's set the alarms off for me. Seeing the team being this absent-minded wasn't good. Particularly when one of the culprits was Van Dijk, who had his worst game for the club by a mile.

One thing is for sure. Saturday's game against Leicester suddenly feels more important and difficult.
Complacent for the first goal definitely. There was a nice line in a report I read on the game about us playing like the Harlem Globetrotters at that point. But it wasn't like the goal was the first chance they had. If we were still complacent after the break then you have to question the mentality of the players because I am absolutely sure JK would have highlighted this at half time. The Hollywood stuff stopped but rather than complacent I would say we were just rattled and didn't know how to respond. We had no legs in midfield at all. Chasing shadows. The fact that Henderson and Gini were immediately taken off after the third goal suggests fatigue was playing a part.

We won because of the changes Klopp made. Better late than never. Milner sat with Fabinho so there was less running round for him to do and we looked fine after that. The players look more comfortable with a more conservative set up, VVD especially.
 



Commando

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Yes often happens after set pieces. They are used to it. They wait for a good opportunity to swap back rather than panic about it (they seem comfortable with it). I am sure I will be corrected if i'm wrong but i think it's because Robbo covers the near post and TAA the far post at opposition free kicks.
There was a period in the first half after a corner where they were in these positions for some time. Salzburg were pressuring us and the FBs had no chance to swap. At one time Virgil got pulled out wide and Trent went to cover at the LCB position and Virgil was at RB.
 

FGred

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They have at least two players who might be of interest to us - Minimo and Haaland.

Just trying to think through whether players necessarily need a club in between Salzburg and Liverpool. That’s the route Mane and Keita took, and on the one hand, I like the idea of being more proven to come here. But on the other hand, Salzburg are better themselves these days, and the way they played tonight was very compelling.

Any ideas how much the two mentioned would cost?
Wang was no slouch either he skinned VVD twice those three stood out for them.
 



DeathOrGlory

Fortune Favours the Gegenpress
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Fuuuuuuck, it seems like we're often talking about our midfield going missing these days. Fabinho is quality, but you can tell there is a gulf in quality in the rest of our midfield roster (Milner is great too but he's getting on and can't play 90 mins of a fast paced game). I'll stand my ground and say we need to do something about this, as our other options such as Ox, Keita and Lallana (who doesn't offer anything in my opinion and has only been good for a short spell in his whole 5 years here) are rarely all available let alone on form.

Gomez looked OK for the first 20 or 30 mins, but then disappeared. I knew that with Trent and Joe in the right side of our defense we'd have trouble with attacks coming down that side, and that's what happened. Trent is young, but he is still very liable to be out of position or to let his man go past him, unlike Robbo who does both his duties in attack AND defense.

Would love to know what went on psychologically in the minds of our players middle of the game. Did they get intimidated by being attacked on home turf? Was it complacency?

Napoli drawing is good for us, but now everyone in the group will think they have a shot. Genk might give us a tougher test now. As for Salzburg, I'll have to agree with everyone else; let's keep an eye on Minamino and a few others. They look tasty!

We're getting the results, but by jingo it's by the skin of our teeth. That's the difference between us and Man City. They seem to win every game also, but are a lot more comfortable doing so.
 

Red over the water

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I think the midfield trio will start to rotate a bit, and we will see more of Keita and Ox as the season unfolds. If they don’t really make an impression, due to form, fitness, whatever, I think we will go into the market for a very good midfielder next summer. In the meantime, we’ve started with Fabinho, Henderson and Wijnaldum, for the most part. I expect to see Keita and Ox starting to come in and be rotated a bit more with Hendo and Wijnaldum. Keep them all on their toes and needing to bring their best.

Milner is an able deputy, as needed, but obviously getting on now. I’ve almost given up on Lallana, but he will wind down his contract here, and anything decent we get from him will be a bit of a bonus in my eyes.

Ox missed last season to injury. Keita took a while to integrate, and also had a couple of niggly injuries, so this is a big season for both. If they don’t bring enough to the party I’m pretty sure we’ll sign another top midfielder next summer.
 

The Phenom

Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
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Messages
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How did we win number five in Istanbul if we were pissed up on Carlsberg?
We were generous. Gave ACM most of our "poison" before the game.

For the away to RBS, we'll have the best of both.
Red Bull before the game, and Carlsberg after the win. :D
 
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KYRed18

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181
Not going to overreact. Probably needed to happen to be honest and fortunate we still walked away with 3 points. Good wake up call for the defense to tighten up. We defend as a unit so that includes everyone. Life goes on. Klopp will turn this performance into a positive learning experience for the boys.
 

norwegian wood

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Great fun that. Salzburg got a shock to their system in the first 30 or so, but then started to adapt while our levels dropped.

A game where Virgil wasn't one of the top performers - feels weird. Mane, Firmino and Salah get my votes. Thought they were the ones who maintained the standard throughout the game.
 

Wilkored08

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Boy oh boy oh boy, do we make it hard for ourselves...loved Robbo scoring....didn't love the 30mins we fell asleep...not keen on ref...bit hit n miss on some decisions... So we go again!!! Cmon you reds.
 

T.C.B

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At the moment it appears that we are reliant too much on playing offside, which we are mostly doing very well, however, we are struggling with teams/players that have intelligent movement in behind, an example is Pukki for Norwich. Add to this that we also seem to be marking space, we are tending to miss the runners especially when teams overload us which is happening to Trent quite a lot.
We need to wise up and realise that at times we also have to follow the runner up.
I see a couple of issues to be honest. If I had to set up a side to counter Liverpool I would exploit the space in behind the fullbacks especially with a pacy player. Trent and Robbo push on giving us one of our most potent attacking threats but if we get caught in possession the counter is a real threat. Gomez has to come wide into the space provided leaving acres in the middle for VVD to marshal. If you add in a midfield that are a bit leggy then the whole centre section of the pitch can open up leaving us very vulnerable......see the second goal last night. Gomez comitts the foul. Both him and TAA are taken out by the quick free kick and neither Gini nor Fabinho respond to the scorer who runs right down the spine of the pitch into acres from where he finishes.
Watch the first goal again.......The moment Henderson looses the ball out wide Gomez charges forward leaving a hole in behind from where the player eventually scores. VVD has to come across and obviously gets sold a great dummy but Gomez exposes the space with poor decision making.
On the third goal VVD could do better but again Gomez and TAA are both ball watching as the cross comes with neither tracking the eventual scorer.

The second issue, and it will look churlish to criticise a player who scores so many goals including 2 last night, is Mo. He gaves up way too much cheap possession by getting caught with it or by giving it away trying to run into congested areas that are almost impossible to get through. I love the player, he's been a fantastic signing, but he was poor for the vast part of that game last night. Yes he scores the winner but he also gave away or lost the ball in way too many needless situations. I don't mean this as a pop at Mo, just an observation on how small things he does can lead to issues at the other end.
 
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Semmy

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Henderson caught in possession for the 1st, alright its a great finish and he sells Virgil a great dummy. Henderson seems to loose his head as a result.
2nd goal they get caught by a quick free kick. Minimino is inside the centre circle as it's taken and he runs all the way to where he strikes the ball with no one even aware of where he is. That's a midfield issue.
3rd goal neither Gomez nor TAA have any awareness of where Haaland is as strolls in to score.
The 3goal collapse was very much the midfield losing track of runners. Fab usually has his head on a swivel, we looked too relaxed at 3-0. VvD especially, he got burned twice. Possibly the accolades are showing?

Klopp eluded to this in his post-match presser.

They moved to a 442 with a diamond in midfield which gave one of their players (I forget his name) license to drop in between Gomez/VVD and Fabinho. This meant Gomez kept moving out of the defensive line which made us massively disjointed at the back.

Combine that with our defence having a poor outing and a lot of complancency (too many flicks and over-complicated passing) leading to turn overs etc.

When we shifted to 4231 and Milner sat with Fabinho this nullied their formation changed and made us again on top. Poor of the players (and Klopp for taking so long) for not making better in-game shifts etc.
Diamond mid is an attacking setup. At 3-0 up, why open up those areas of the pitch? Headscratch
 



GaryC

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Good to see Naby out on the pitch again. Leicester this weekend before the international break means we can go all out for a win without worrying about next week. Klopp will do a reset to get the team’s focus back on track.
 

Flobs

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The second issue, and it will look churlish to criticise a player who scores so many goals including 2 last night, is Mo. He gaves up way too much cheap possession by getting caught with it or by giving it away trying to run into congested areas that are almost impossible to get through.
Yes but he did make up for it scoring that winner. :)
That winner was wonderful play, I thought we had 2 Gerrards on the pitch for that one. Great play from Firmino and Salah.
I also noticed that with Hendo getting forward so much Salah was making some efforts to defend when we lost the ball. It's good to see.
 

costared

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I said it would be a tough one..A physically strong, fast, competitive and well organised opponent. We seemed to try to be to tricky at times but did enough to just about deserve the win. You could pick litle faults in mst players game but that was mainly due to the energy, determination and awareness of the opposition. We will need to be on top form aganst Liecester this weekend.
 



Redopium

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A fantastic first half but went to sleep for twenty mins in second half Milner and Origi had to come on to calm us down and see the game through, I thought Gomez was poor even in the first half at least four times struggling to do the basics hopefully it's just rustiness but when he partnered Virgil earlier in the season we were conceding lots also, midfielder completely lost control in the second half Gini and Henderson struggled and Fab to a lesser degree, in a 5 min period fab gave away possession four times, Milner done a great job when he came on and Origi held onto possession and helped attack, we deserved to win but it was a major wake up call to all.
 

mattyhurst

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Every Salzburg goal came within seconds of an attack by us, that was poor management of the game.

Near the end you saw how good Milner is and how poor in that instance Keita is at closing the game out, Milner sent him to the corner only for Keita to try and attack and bring it back down the field.

Seen that rubbish too much. We did however shut them down at 4-3, should be doing that at 3-0.

Doesn't worry me as small margins at they are down 4-1 just before the second. And we will manage the game better just annoying sometimes.

Glad to see the front 3 scoring again.
 

Semmy

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You missunderstood, Salzburg went 442 diamond not us.
you'd think that Fabinho would have been tasked with picking up that #10, but I am surprised that Klopp nor Henderson or even the "best defender in the world" would have made an adjustment after the second goal. Henderson should have the capacity to drop into the double-pivot or at least have his head on a swivel if Fabinho is having to man-mark.