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Post match: Liverpool v Spurs (EPL 31/3/2019 4.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 10 5.7%
  • Matip

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 84 48.3%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 53 30.5%
  • Henderson [off 77’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Milner [off 77’]

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Salah [off 90+3’]

    Votes: 4 2.3%
  • Mane

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Firmino [GOAL 15’]

    Votes: 14 8.0%
  • Origi [on 77]

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Fabinho [on 77’]

    Votes: 4 2.3%
  • Lovren [on 90+3’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    174
  • Poll closed .

Lowton_Red

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Well that was a close call, way to close for the wellbeing of my heart; it was a windy day at Anfield and the Mem and I certainly got the wind up.

While I am ecstatic at the result I'm more that a little concerned at the nature of our win. Before the match I was unsure about the midfield trio and although I have nothing against any of the three individually, I don't think we play at our best when all three are picked together. And I think my fears were justified. We certainly played better when Hendo was replaced by Fabinho who, in my opinion, should have started.

At times we were all over the place; and, at times, the spuds were all over us. There were far to many loose passes, we kept letting the shitehawk spuds back into the game.

Fortunately we had Virgil and Andy at the back. However Alisson looked nervy - he's been a bit wayward in the last couple of games; has "the curse of Achterberg" caught up with him, I wonder?

As for their goal, the ball might have stopped rolling, just, but the kick was a good three metres from were the "foul" occurred, and Son was in an offside position. Standing that close to Alisson it's hard to see how he wasn't interfering with play. Thanks, martin "harry's friend" atkinson.

Anyway a win is a win however it comes. Onwards and upwards, we go again.
 

William Clarke

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Wow, 100mph with the brakes off. What a game. What a bouncing stadium with 100mph fans.

The game overall was 50/50 in my opinion and if the result had been a draw, then nobody could have argued against it. Fluky at the end (French World Cup winning goalie - yeah, right), well maybe, but I'll take it. In fact, I would take it for our last six league games, even though my nerves would be frazzled and way out of control.

I chose Bobby for my MotM - he just never stopped running, and scored a goal.
 

jaffod

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People need to remember Spurs are a very good side instead of dwelling on the fact they got through us a few times when we over-committed before the end. We had 4 attackers on so left ourselves exposed to the counter attack, that was the gamble JK took and it payed off.
Spurs have been the best side to come to Anfield in the past 2 seasons, they are more than capable of getting a result at the FFP abusers.
 

Iluvatar

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I wasn't comparing him to Gerrard the player, more so making the point that the club captain very rarely gets dropped or subbed off for tactical reasons.
Ah ok, my point was more Gerrard was a bit of a freak in the fact he was captain but also our best player which is rare.

Tbh. We won, it was nervy as fuck, my arse went numerous times. Bar 1 time he did a miss-pass did I attribute those soft arse shithousery moments to Mr Henderson!
 

Dane

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Ah ok, my point was more Gerrard was a bit of a freak in the fact he was captain but also our best player which is rare.

Tbh. We won, it was nervy as fuck, my arse went numerous times. Bar 1 time he did a miss-pass did I attribute those soft arse shithousery moments to Mr Henderson!
Just so we're clear, I dont think Henderson had a worse game than anyone else.

The entire midfield were a bit pedestrian and didn't look like they were going to produce any cutting edge chances for our front 3.
Fabinho was the obvious choice to give us a bit of bite in front of the defence, and Gini is the most likely out of our 3 starting midfielders to provide something going forward.

Hence Milner and Henderson getting hooked for Fabinho and Origi.
 

Livvy

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While I do agree with everyone on Fabinho, we just have to be clear again and again under what immense pressure our players are. Everyone had a bad phase, not just Hendo. Besides, we are not in this position in the league now "despite" Klopp's decisions but "because" of his decisions. Or not?

In hindsight, it's always easy to say, yes, but that and that would have been better etc, but nobody from us sees what they do in training or has insight into their medical records, or knows how well each of them can handle the pressure. We as fans want everyone to play perfect. No mistakes or uncertainty allowed, but that's not how life works tbf.
 
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Noo Noo

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I also think Henderson is better suited to playing further forward. That's his more natural position.

Overall though I think there is a balance issue between Henderson, Milner and Wijnaldum. Thethree are very experienced and obviously deliver many things tactically that Klopp wants, he trusts them but I honestly don't think its our most effective midfield unit.

Henderson seem to be taking the wrap for it but in all honestly none of the three were really that far in front of the other. It's more a function of this is what you get when these three play together rather than being poor players. They tend to cancel each other out more than actually enhance each other.
 

Scott Jones

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Henderson played against a much fresher spurs midfield so to come on with 12 minutes left against a team running out of gas then obviously you're going to look more dangerous and have more space,Klopp did mention this.
 

GermanRed

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I also think Henderson is better suited to playing further forward. That's his more natural position.
And what can he offer further forward what Milner, Lallana, Keita, Ox or Wijnaldum can't? 'Further forward' Henderson would be clearly our worst player in midfield.
 

Incognito

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@Livvy IMO it's factor of both. Probably 99% because of Klopp's decisions, but maybe just maybe 1℅ despite his decisions. If any of our players are not capable of handling the pressure, they shouldn't be even playing for us, because they wouldn't have reached this level or we wouldn't have spent this much say on a Fabinho or Keita if they couldn't handle pressure. They knew the project involved winning a league title after 30 odd years. In fact, Fab was brought on when there was actually pressure to win the game.

There are factors us sitting here wouldn't be in a position to judge, but from our vantage point none of the reasons seem to be valid enough to justify not playing Fab yesterday. Wasn't injured, seemed settled, we have played better with him starting, the three mids that started usually do not seem to play well together and the fact Klopp plays these three usually for the big games. Also, whenever Fab is brought on or has started he has played against the better sides pretty good as well - Utd, Bayern etc.

Somehow the midfield 3 doesn't work isn't a hindsight thought anymore. In fact the games they start together and how we perform through out the game is actually giving us enough data to infer the correlation, which is evident by the scepticism everyone has before the game as soon as the line up is announced.
 

Arminius

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I also think Henderson is better suited to playing further forward. That's his more natural position.

Overall though I think there is a balance issue between Henderson, Milner and Wijnaldum. Thethree are very experienced and obviously deliver many things tactically that Klopp wants, he trusts them but I honestly don't think its our most effective midfield unit.

Henderson seem to be taking the wrap for it but in all honestly none of the three were really that far in front of the other. It's more a function of this is what you get when these three play together rather than being poor players. They tend to cancel each other out more than actually enhance each other.
I think the fundamental problem with that midfield is that all three of them are best suited to be the most central one. Wijnaldum is the best of the three to play further forward, but it is not his best position. Henderson is probably the best of the three playing deepest, but it is not his best position. In his mind's eye, I think Klopp was working toward a best midfield of Fabinho-Wijnaldum-Keita, but Keita has not come along at the hoped-for pace.
 

Noo Noo

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And what can he offer further forward what Milner, Lallana, Keita, Ox or Wijnaldum can't? 'Further forward' Henderson would be clearly our worst player in midfield.
Not sure about that. History indicates that may not be the case
 

Noo Noo

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I think the fundamental problem with that midfield is that all three of them are best suited to be the most central one. Wijnaldum is the best of the three to play further forward, but it is not his best position. Henderson is probably the best of the three playing deepest, but it is not his best position. In his mind's eye, I think Klopp was working toward a best midfield of Fabinho-Wijnaldum-Keita, but Keita has not come along at the hoped-for pace.
I suspect that you are right. This is the midfield that Klopp "trusts" and I've pretty certain he's aware of the shortcomings and the compromises that comes with. If he wasn't he'd be on a par with Mclaren which clearly he isn't.

I don't know what Klopp's perfect midfield intentions were at the start of the season but I'm pretty sure that Ox's injury and Keita's slow development has frustrated him (behind the scenes).
 

Arminius

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I suspect that you are right. This is the midfield that Klopp "trusts" and I've pretty certain he's aware of the shortcomings and the compromises that comes with. If he wasn't he'd be on a par with Mclaren which clearly he isn't.

I don't know what Klopp's perfect midfield intentions were at the start of the season but I'm pretty sure that Ox's injury and Keita's slow development has frustrated him (behind the scenes).
That is my guess as well. A midfield group of Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum, Keita, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Fabinho gives you close to two-deep at each position in a midfield three. If Milner leaves at the end of the season, the replacement would probably be an understudy for the deepest position. The attacking midfield has been the weakest performing/most inconsistent part of the team most of the season, but it is not hard to understand why.
 
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Alright Now

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We had ordered grocery delivery for yesterday morning. Usually the service rings the door bell so that we can store our ordered items in the refrigerator. Yesterday, they didn’t ring the bell and my wife found the items sitting outside the door. In my usual helpful way, I said that’s odd. My wife goes given the way you were sprinting from the couch to the door and screaming, they probably thought it best to not ring the bell. And then my daughter adds how many people did you have over.

Silence
 

BostonMick

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@Livvy IMO it's factor of both. Probably 99% because of Klopp's decisions, but maybe just maybe 1℅ despite his decisions. If any of our players are not capable of handling the pressure, they shouldn't be even playing for us, because they wouldn't have reached this level or we wouldn't have spent this much say on a Fabinho or Keita if they couldn't handle pressure. They knew the project involved winning a league title after 30 odd years. In fact, Fab was brought on when there was actually pressure to win the game.

There are factors us sitting here wouldn't be in a position to judge, but from our vantage point none of the reasons seem to be valid enough to justify not playing Fab yesterday. Wasn't injured, seemed settled, we have played better with him starting, the three mids that started usually do not seem to play well together and the fact Klopp plays these three usually for the big games. Also, whenever Fab is brought on or has started he has played against the better sides pretty good as well - Utd, Bayern etc.

Somehow the midfield 3 doesn't work isn't a hindsight thought anymore. In fact the games they start together and how we perform through out the game is actually giving us enough data to infer the correlation, which is evident by the scepticism everyone has before the game as soon as the line up is announced.
So this is another really good post on this topic.
I'm not sure if it's been discussed yet in the context of our midfield - but I wonder what the effect of Buvac's departure has on any of this.
Seemed like the conventional wisdom was the Buvac was the "brains" and possibly the one who Klopp would defer to tactically.
Who plays that role now? Who typically would Klopp confer with on team and/or midfield selection?
 

Mascot88

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So this is another really good post on this topic.
I'm not sure if it's been discussed yet in the context of our midfield - but I wonder what the effect of Buvac's departure has on any of this.
Seemed like the conventional wisdom was the Buvac was the "brains" and possibly the one who Klopp would defer to tactically.
Who plays that role now? Who typically would Klopp confer with on team and/or midfield selection?
Think it’s Pep Ljinders.
 

BostonMick

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Just laughable, he stopped at least 3 of their attacks by reading the play. That’s game intelligence.
He also did the pass to Robbo which Robbo then assists Firmino. That’s game intelligence.

He was poor 2nd half, as were the entire midfield. I think thats why he gets defended, its so blatantly biased and woefully sad to only highlight his poor points. Van Dijk for example who was immense also gave the ball away with sloppy passing and they got a free shot on goal.. All forgotten yet Henderson does similar and he is vilified. Its embarrassing.

The problem is and this is why I believe Henderson gets defended by a few in here. You could walk through that game and extract a massive list of every single player and the poor decisions or mistakes they made. Hell Alisson was a walking fucking characture of Mings the Merciless in goal for 90 minutes, full of panic sliced passes, wrong decisions.. Not seen a whiff of his name.. Salah missed several chances which if he had finished during the period of dominance we would have put them to the sword. Gini and Milner were basically none existent for 90 minutes yet not a peep from anyone.

If you want to point out where Henderson went wrong, by all means go for it. But be fair, if you do that for him do it for the rest. Look at why he played badly (if he did in your eyes). Some of the posts of what he did wrong are written by a 12 year old whose only exposure to football is Match of the Day and Fifa.

If we are calling a spade a spade, your posting history is abysmal.
Liked this post not only for it's content (spot on) but also for the Ming the Merciless reference. (gotta go watch the Queen video for Flash Gordorn now)
 

Magnus

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That's not applicable where City are concerned. On a level playing field we would literally be 4 or 5 points away from winning the title.
Look, I don't think we will win the league. I think Manchester City is a better team all in all. However, I insist that we have a sporting chance ! City can drop points, they have before, and we can win our games. It is possible. And if that happens, it doesn't matter if City is better than us when they play their best football, we will still win in the end due to points. I don't give us a good chance, but for sure, we have probably something like a 30% chance of winning the title, and while it is somewhat unlikely it is still a fair chance that happens 3 out of 10 times.

Edit: I misunderstood you. Thought you meant that we barely had a chance at all. Sorry.
 
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sms1986

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Look, I don't think we will win the league. I think Manchester City is a better team all in all. However, I insist that we have a sporting chance ! City can drop points, they have before, and we can win our games. It is possible. And if that happens, it doesn't matter if City is better than us when they play their best football, we will still win in the end due to points. I don't give us a good chance, but for sure, we have probably something like a 30% chance of winning the title, and while it is somewhat unlikely it is still a fair chance that happens 3 out of 10 times.
30%? Overall, City are a better team but I would put it closer to 50-50.
 

Alright Now

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@Livvy IMO it's factor of both. Probably 99% because of Klopp's decisions, but maybe just maybe 1℅ despite his decisions. If any of our players are not capable of handling the pressure, they shouldn't be even playing for us, because they wouldn't have reached this level or we wouldn't have spent this much say on a Fabinho or Keita if they couldn't handle pressure. They knew the project involved winning a league title after 30 odd years. In fact, Fab was brought on when there was actually pressure to win the game.

There are factors us sitting here wouldn't be in a position to judge, but from our vantage point none of the reasons seem to be valid enough to justify not playing Fab yesterday. Wasn't injured, seemed settled, we have played better with him starting, the three mids that started usually do not seem to play well together and the fact Klopp plays these three usually for the big games. Also, whenever Fab is brought on or has started he has played against the better sides pretty good as well - Utd, Bayern etc.

Somehow the midfield 3 doesn't work isn't a hindsight thought anymore. In fact the games they start together and how we perform through out the game is actually giving us enough data to infer the correlation, which is evident by the scepticism everyone has before the game as soon as the line up is announced.
Good, balanced, unemotional post. Are you an engineer?
 



Magnus

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30%? Overall, City are a better team but I would put it closer to 50-50.
I don't know. Maybe 40% then. I just think they have played better than us in the latter half of the season and I am very wary of setting myself up to massive disappointment if we fail to nail it. Right now, I am just hoping. A lot.
Sorry for being slightly pessimistic :-)
 

sms1986

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I don't know. Maybe 40% then. I just think they have played better than us in the latter half of the season and I am very wary of setting myself up to massive disappointment if we fail to nail it. Right now, I am just hoping. A lot.
Sorry for being slightly pessimistic :-)
They have, but they have a gruelling month coming up so hopefully they drop some points.
 

Eintrachtfan

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Maybe City has the better team.
But in football the better team doesn‘t always win.
If City wins their remaining games we can do what we want, we can‘t catch them.
If so they are deserved chamions and congratulations to them.
My hope is that they will lose unexpected points.
Wether we can take profit from that remains to be seen.