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Post Match: Liverpool v Wolves (EPL 29/12/19 4.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 14 11.6%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 11 9.1%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 77 63.6%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 3 2.5%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Henderson

    Votes: 24 19.8%
  • Wijnaldum [off 86’]

    Votes: 22 18.2%
  • Lallana [off 67’]

    Votes: 33 27.3%
  • Mane [GOAL 42’]

    Votes: 38 31.4%
  • Firmino [off 86’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Salah

    Votes: 2 1.7%
  • Keita [on 67’]

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Milner [on 86’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Origi [on 86’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    121
  • Poll closed .

BigJon

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On a serious note - Mrs Big Jon commented on how tired JK looked prior to the game. It made me think that there is often a mention of the physical impact on the players of so many high-pressure games in such a short space of time,, but little is mentioned regarding the overwhelming stress endured by the managers and backroom staff. Something the FA should maybe consider when discussing a mid season break.

I remember years ago they conducted an experiment on Big Ron Atkinson I think to measure his heart rate during a game - the peaks were huge and verging on dangerous at times during the game -possibly the stress of management contributed to GH health issues as well. All I am saying is spare a thought for JK and his backroom team.
 

Mascot88

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We weren't lucky at all. Without VAR Taylor the manc cunt fucks us and we lose 1-0. With VAR his shite refereeing is corrected and we win 1-0, which is the correct result.
I’ve no problem with Anthony Taylor giving the Wolves goal. It was a marginal call, and I’d rather give attackers the benefit of the doubt in a situation like that. VAR is supposed to deal with that and sort it out.

I’ve got a big problem with Taylor on the Lallana ‘handball’. It’s absolutely fucking obvious that it hits his shoulder, and a competent referee should be well aware of that. He also shouldn’t be blowing that as quick as he does. Nuno has a point that as Taylor blew for a foul before the ball went in, it shouldn’t go to VAR (a bit of a shithouse complaint, mind). A good referee, even if he thinks it’s handball, let’s play develop a bit before blowing up. He couldn’t wait to blow the whistle.

And that symptomatic of his regular performance at Anfield. Taylor is one of those referees who turns up and let’s the opposition foul at will, while calling back our lads for fair tackles.
 

Rambler

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I’ve no problem with Anthony Taylor giving the Wolves goal. It was a marginal call, and I’d rather give attackers the benefit of the doubt in a situation like that. VAR is supposed to deal with that and sort it out.

I’ve got a big problem with Taylor on the Lallana ‘handball’. It’s absolutely fucking obvious that it hits his shoulder, and a competent referee should be well aware of that. He also shouldn’t be blowing that as quick as he does. Nuno has a point that as Taylor blew for a foul before the ball went in, it shouldn’t go to VAR (a bit of a shithouse complaint, mind). A good referee, even if he thinks it’s handball, let’s play develop a bit before blowing up. He couldn’t wait to blow the whistle.

And that symptomatic of his regular performance at Anfield. Taylor is one of those referees who turns up and let’s the opposition foul at will, while calling back our lads for fair tackles.
It definitely isn't obvious.

You assume that the referee sees what you see. He doesn't. In most cases he has a much worse view of incidents. Just watched it and you can see Adam stretching his arm out. Quite understandable that he would blow for that. There is also a Wolves player standing right next to Adam no doubt blocking his line of vision.


I was listening to the commentary on Radio Merseyside and the commentator said that Lallana handled it and only when he saw the slow mo replay did he say he now "thought" it might have hit his shoulder.
 

Noo Noo

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Only saw the highlights for this one and it gave me the uneasy feeling we got away with this one a a little. For Mane's goal that looks like VAR was working as it should. There is doubt, so it gets checked and decision made. Job done.

For Wolves goal however, I do feel for Wolves. The decision was right but it feels stupid. The process is still taken away from the referee instead of assisting. There have even been suggestions that the off side rule needs another review in line with VAR. Truth is the offside rule has been stupid for years so I would agree with that.
 
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Noo Noo

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I’ve no problem with Anthony Taylor giving the Wolves goal. It was a marginal call, and I’d rather give attackers the benefit of the doubt in a situation like that. VAR is supposed to deal with that and sort it out.

I’ve got a big problem with Taylor on the Lallana ‘handball’. It’s absolutely fucking obvious that it hits his shoulder, and a competent referee should be well aware of that. He also shouldn’t be blowing that as quick as he does. Nuno has a point that as Taylor blew for a foul before the ball went in, it shouldn’t go to VAR (a bit of a shithouse complaint, mind). A good referee, even if he thinks it’s handball, let’s play develop a bit before blowing up. He couldn’t wait to blow the whistle.

And that symptomatic of his regular performance at Anfield. Taylor is one of those referees who turns up and let’s the opposition foul at will, while calling back our lads for fair tackles.
Ah I hadn't appreciated that he blew up early. No problem with checking it after the goal is scored but blowing up early is stupid. But saying that is this an instance where VAR has proven the referee to be a numpty?
 

Quicksand

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It definitely isn't obvious.

You assume that the referee sees what you see. He doesn't. In most cases he has a much worse view of incidents. Just watched it and you can see Adam stretching his arm out. Quite understandable that he would blow for that. There is also a Wolves player standing right next to Adam no doubt blocking his line of vision.


I was listening to the commentary on Radio Merseyside and the commentator said that Lallana handled it and only when he saw the slow mo replay did he say he now "thought" it might have hit his shoulder.
With VAR now in operation any ref worth his fee gives the goal and lets VAR decide on the handball question. He has that as insurance.
Taylor calls it opposite, a biased decision awaiting affirmation from VAR, which isnt possible or forthcoming.

Taylor is clearly biased. That decision underpins the view.
 

Billy Biskix

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It definitely isn't obvious.

You assume that the referee sees what you see. He doesn't. In most cases he has a much worse view of incidents. Just watched it and you can see Adam stretching his arm out. Quite understandable that he would blow for that. There is also a Wolves player standing right next to Adam no doubt blocking his line of vision.


I was listening to the commentary on Radio Merseyside and the commentator said that Lallana handled it and only when he saw the slow mo replay did he say he now "thought" it might have hit his shoulder.
But isn't this why we have VAR, because his view of an incident may be obscured? There's no way he could have been sure that was a handball and yet he couldn't wait to blow his whistle. One second later it's in the net. Biased or not, it's just rank bad reffing.

Taylor was the same ref who decided that Gazzaniga should be awarded a free kick for taking out a Chelsea player in the penalty area. Another decision that was over-ruled by VAR. He's just not a very good referee and yesterday he was absolutely determined not to give us anything, especially second half, as though he was pissed off that he'd been shown up again.
 

Mascot88

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If anything, VAR is doing the job that I always hoped it would - casting a light on the worst referees and forcing the standards up.

Anthony Taylor is just piss poor. A crap, context referee guessing and bluffing his way through football games.
 

Noo Noo

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If anything, VAR is doing the job that I always hoped it would - casting a light on the worst referees and forcing the standards up.

Anthony Taylor is just piss poor. A crap, context referee guessing and bluffing his way through football games.
I actually hoped it would give them a tool to check things. That clearly isn't happening as they are being taken out of the equation, as if the FA know their crap and want to do their own thing.
 

Lowton_Red

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It definitely isn't obvious.

You assume that the referee sees what you see. He doesn't. In most cases he has a much worse view of incidents. Just watched it and you can see Adam stretching his arm out. Quite understandable that he would blow for that. There is also a Wolves player standing right next to Adam no doubt blocking his line of vision.
I disagree. It was so obviously not handball.

In the following clips you can see blue-moon taylor's position relative to Lallana. He is ideally placed to see that it isn't handball.





And if blue-moon did see it as handball, then he really does need to go to Specsavers.
 
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FGred

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We weren't lucky at all. Without VAR Taylor the manc cunt fucks us and we lose 1-0. With VAR his shite refereeing is corrected and we win 1-0, which is the correct result.

Thought Lallana was excellent and he deserves to start the next game. Henderson was great again and Gomez is looking like the player he was before he got injured last season.

We looked to control the 2nd half just like we did against Everton and Watford, we conserved energy and did enough to win. It's a strategy that will cost us at some point but so far we've been good enough to make it work.

2nd season in a row we've won every game in December if you discount the Carabao Cup, get through the next game and we can look to rest a few against the bitters.

Wolves can fuck off, when a decision goes to VAR that's the end of the matter and an unbiased ref would have booked a couple of them for being twats. Fans are dickheads as well but we already knew that.

Up the fucking Reds!!!
It absolutely drives me bonkers that that incompetent and biased idiot is allowed to ref our games why can’t we have Oliver for the rest of the season?
 

ILLOK

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You can tell it's not handball because of how far/high the ball bounces.

Get a footy and throw it at your upper arm, it'll die. There's nothing there to spring it that distance.

Throw it at your shoulder and it bounces off at pace.

It's that simple really.
 

GratefulRed

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First half performance was great. We should have scored a couple more and controlled the game well. It’s moments like the Mane goal that I appreciate VAR being in the game because that was clearly the top of the shoulder and a great play from Lallana. I think all fans of the game want to see rightly deserved goals given so if VAR helps with that then great.

However, something needs to be done with the offside rule and how VAR is used as part of it. Just like Firmino early in the season or Pukki vs Tottenham, Wolves goal should have stood. They need to change the rule to a specific body part, foot preferably, or go back to the distance between rule. I think all football fans would like to see those tight offside goals be given deference to the attacking player.

Second half the performance dropped but we saw it out and got three points. Lallana, who I thought had an excellent start to the game, tired significantly in the second half. As did Gini and we lost some control we had early in the game. Also, Trent didn’t have the best second half up against Vinegre.

Salah got some criticism in the in-game and post-game thread but I thought he played really well outside of his miss in the 3rd minute. He’s had far worse games this season than this one.

I’ll happily take another 1-0 vs Sheffield coming up. Tough teams to play.
 

Limiescouse

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This match showcased exactly the problem with VAR, even when he corrects 2 errors by the official, it still ruined the game.

Personally, I think there should be a time limit for VAR, if they can't over rule a mistake within 20 seconds, the decision stands. Lallana was clear as daylight, and it should have been over turned in 5 seconds max.
The problem was they ended up looking at 3 different issues. Im kind of amazed given that desire to find a way to rule it out that it was allowed to stand.
 

Limiescouse

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With VAR now in operation any ref worth his fee gives the goal and lets VAR decide on the handball question. He has that as insurance.
Taylor calls it opposite, a biased decision awaiting affirmation from VAR, which isnt possible or forthcoming.
It is only insurance if you view only 1 of the many scenarios. Imagine it was a handball but the ref let it go just to see if Mane was going to score. Instead of putting it in we get a corner, but then score from the corner. The corner would not have been delayed for VAR to review the handball so you assume the corner would have been taken. We then have a situation in which the ref altered how he officiates a match because he had VAR and it resulted in an incorrect decision and a goal.
 

Rambler

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I disagree. It was so obviously not handball.

In the following clips you can see blue-moon taylor's position relative to Lallana. He is ideally placed to see that it isn't handball.





And if blue-moon did see it as handball, then he really does need to go to Specsavers.
It was possibly an inch away from being his arm that contacted it and you can clearly see a Wolves player run across his direct line of vision. That video does not show you what the referee saw. It shows what everyone watching on tv in slow motion saw. Totally different perspective.

I am not arguing whether he is or isn’t a good referee but in real time and from his angle I can easily understand why he might have thought it was an inch or so lower on his arm.
 

RedYank

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On a serious note - Mrs Big Jon commented on how tired JK looked prior to the game. It made me think that there is often a mention of the physical impact on the players of so many high-pressure games in such a short space of time,, but little is mentioned regarding the overwhelming stress endured by the managers and backroom staff. Something the FA should maybe consider when discussing a mid season break.

I remember years ago they conducted an experiment on Big Ron Atkinson I think to measure his heart rate during a game - the peaks were huge and verging on dangerous at times during the game -possibly the stress of management contributed to GH health issues as well. All I am saying is spare a thought for JK and his backroom team.
Very much overlooked and under-appreciated. Going past even the game-preparedness, is the non-stop PR and media hounding--who maximize virtually every word as though it were the Dead Sea Scrolls. Combine the two--and that is just one's working life--and it is no wonder the shelf life of a manager (or a head coach over here) is not particularly long.

Ours is a prime example of a mentality monster, much to his credit.
 

Limiescouse

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Good discussion on the handball and offside decisions.
What is so remarkable about that discussion is how oblivious every single one of them are to the rules and ways is VAR is used. The vast majority of the angst English football fans have is driven by the platforms that continue to be given to ex pros who love to speak without knowing what the F they are talking about.

Also, to contradict Dermott Galagher, the handball issue does not only apply to the goal scorer and the player who gave him the ball. It also applies to the moment the team came into possession of the ball. Of course, that does not apply the the Virgil situation so he is still technically correct that even if it had have been shown to have grazed his arm it still would have been irrelevant.
 

Magnus

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While you guys argue over the bias of Anthony Tyler, you realise that the FA changed the rules from last season concerning build up and hands, and that pictures from the angles I have seen show that Van Dijk was unfortunate and caugth the ball with his hand before his excellent pass. That means that the Lallana thing that Tyler blew for should be irrelevant, and that Wolves should probably, as far as I understand, had a free kick. When a hands happen in the build up, it does have to be willed to be blown (I didn't know this before a friend showed it to me late last night, which kind of ruined some of the enjoyment of the victory for me).
I fear that if we deploy total honesty, we were actually lucky and that Wolves should probably have won this game 1-0 (yeah, yeah, chances and such, but our goal should probably indeed not stand, while theirs probably should.) or at the very least drawn. They were quite unlucky. After having seen the game, I got a bit of a bad taste in my mouth to be honest.

Then again, I suppose this could have happened just as often without VAR, but with VAR, it is strange that we win this game tbh. Very skeptical of those VAR ref's and I often wonder what kind of program they use (they say it is a different one to that the tv guys use). Anyway, I won't cry over 3 undeserved points, but feel for Wolves fans.
 

Limiescouse

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While you guys argue over the bias of Anthony Tyler, you realise that the FA changed the rules from last season concerning build up and hands, and that pictures from the angles I have seen show that Van Dijk was unfortunate and caugth the ball with his hand before his excellent pass. That means that the Lallana thing that Tyler blew for should be irrelevant, and that Wolves should probably, as far as I understand, had a free kick. When a hands happen in the build up, it does have to be willed to be blown (I didn't know this before a friend showed it to me late last night, which kind of ruined some of the enjoyment of the victory for me).
No, that isnt the rule.
 

ILLOK

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While you guys argue over the bias of Anthony Tyler, you realise that the FA changed the rules from last season concerning build up and hands, and that pictures from the angles I have seen show that Van Dijk was unfortunate and caugth the ball with his hand before his excellent pass.
Look at the video, there's no conclusive proof it hit his hand at all.

And even if it did, it was extremely marginal to the point where the spin and trajectory of the ball didn't change in the slightest. Can we be so incensed about marginal offsides but also claim the ball brushing a sleeve of a shirt on the halfway line is enough to disallow a goal?

We were lucky in the sense that VAR is here and it did its job, that's all. We fully deserved to win that game.
 

phil smith

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A very tired performance but not surprising after the games and travel commitments the boys have had over the last fortnight. Wolves are also a very good team who I think will definitely finish in the top six if not the top four. All the controversy of VAR will continue until the end of the season. We have been on the wrong end of them in a couple of instances in the last month with Sadio and Bobby. Another tough game next with Sheffield Utd who we only scraped a result earlier on this season. Would definitely introduce the Japanese lad as soon as possible as I think our front three are really struggling with the workload at the moment. Gave Gomez my MOM for a good steady performance under a lot of pressure.
 

Magnus

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Look at the video, there's no conclusive proof it hit his hand at all.

And even if it did, it was extremely marginal to the point where the spin and trajectory of the ball didn't change in the slightest. Can we be so incensed about marginal offsides but also claim the ball brushing a sleeve of a shirt on the halfway line is enough to disallow a goal?

We were lucky in the sense that VAR is here and it did its job, that's all. We fully deserved to win that game.
Limescouse and Rambler (or Rambler liked his post, which counts in my book) tells me me friend was wrong concerning the change of that rule, and then I don't really have a problem anymore, because you are right, it was marginal and it is a pure coincidence that VAR helped us anyway (I get very irritated by the LiVARpool stuff tbh).
Besides, my friend, while a thoroughly good guy, is not objective because, voulla, he is a Wolves fan. I told him it was a coincidence and he fully agreed, but he also showed me these stats which made me understand why he was a bit irritated https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/3929823/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club

Anyway, if there is no such change concerning the offside rule, never mind that I said above. I am happy to hear it though, since I always want to win in a sportsmanlike manner.

As for the game, from what I saw, we were fantastic in the first half, while they pressed us hard in the second. A marginal game. Excellent with 3 points from such a game.
 

Limiescouse

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Limescouse and Rambler (or Rambler liked his post, which counts in my book) tells me me friend was wrong concerning the change of that rule, and then I don't really have a problem anymore, because you are right, it was marginal and it is a pure coincidence that VAR helped us anyway (I get very irritated by the LiVARpool stuff tbh).
The rule change for handball on a goal focuses on 3 specific aspects of the play:
1) the goal scorer
2) the player who gave him the ball
3) the player who won the ball for the goal scoring side.

In all 3 of those the new rule now states that any contact with the hand no matter how incidental is now a handball if the move results in a goal. For all other aspects of the play the traditional handball rule is in play. VVD's role in the goal was not any of the above 3 scenarios so it doesnt matter if it did marginally brush his hand.
 

Magnus

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The rule change for handball on a goal focuses on 3 specific aspects of the play:
1) the goal scorer
2) the player who gave him the ball
3) the player who won the ball for the goal scoring side.

In all 3 of those the new rule now states that any contact with the hand no matter how incidental is now a handball if the move results in a goal. For all other aspects of the play the traditional handball rule is in play. VVD's role in the goal was not any of the above 3 scenarios so it doesnt matter if it did marginally brush his hand.
Thank you very much for writing this down in such a manner. Much appreciated !
 

Lowton_Red

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It was possibly an inch away from being his arm that contacted it and you can clearly see a Wolves player run across his direct line of vision. That video does not show you what the referee saw. It shows what everyone watching on tv in slow motion saw. Totally different perspective.

I am not arguing whether he is or isn’t a good referee but in real time and from his angle I can easily understand why he might have thought it was an inch or so lower on his arm.
I disagree. Blue-moon's view is not obscured by a wolves player, as this clip clearly demonstrates:

I've paused the clip at the moment the ball touches Adam's shoulder. If the ref cannot see that it isn't handball from that distance, he has no place refereeing a pub match, let alone a game in the PL.
 

Limiescouse

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I can see it as he does lift his arm in a way that someone who was trying to handle it would. However, why is there absolutely no discussion on the fact that he only failed to control it because the Wolves player clattered him in the back?
 

Seen it all

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What the haters refuse to acknowledge is that EVERYONE
. One thing is clear though, that 'Armpit' rule has got to go. It's just messing with people's heads. Should be judged by the position of the chest ie the bulk of the torso.
Feet mate feet it's them things you stand on & use to run with. :cool::ROFLMAO: After all it is called FOOTBALL.