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Post Match: Liverpool v Wolves (EPL 29/12/19 4.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 14 11.6%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 11 9.1%
  • Gomez

    Votes: 77 63.6%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 3 2.5%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Henderson

    Votes: 24 19.8%
  • Wijnaldum [off 86’]

    Votes: 22 18.2%
  • Lallana [off 67’]

    Votes: 33 27.3%
  • Mane [GOAL 42’]

    Votes: 38 31.4%
  • Firmino [off 86’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Salah

    Votes: 2 1.7%
  • Keita [on 67’]

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Milner [on 86’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Origi [on 86’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    121
  • Poll closed .

Arminius

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I disagree. Blue-moon's view is not obscured by a wolves player, as this clip clearly demonstrates:

I've paused the clip at the moment the ball touches Adam's shoulder. If the ref cannot see that it isn't handball from that distance, he has no place refereeing a pub match, let alone a game in the PL.
What that clip also highlights for me is the simple fact that the Wolves defender makes no contact with the ball, makes contact with Lallana's back, and clearly drives his shoulder into Lallana's back hard enough to knock him over in the penalty box....and what Taylor saw was a handball?
 

Flobs

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It is only insurance if you view only 1 of the many scenarios. Imagine it was a handball but the ref let it go just to see if Mane was going to score. Instead of putting it in we get a corner, but then score from the corner. The corner would not have been delayed for VAR to review the handball so you assume the corner would have been taken. We then have a situation in which the ref altered how he officiates a match because he had VAR and it resulted in an incorrect decision and a goal.
I think your over complicating this. Surely if Mané doesn't score the ref blows for the hand ball he thought he saw. I mean not winning a corner is not anywhere near scoring a goal.
 
Last edited:

Red Armada

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However, something needs to be done with the offside rule and how VAR is used as part of it. Just like Firmino early in the season or Pukki vs Tottenham, Wolves goal should have stood. They need to change the rule to a specific body part, foot preferably, or go back to the distance between rule. I think all football fans would like to see those tight offside goals be given deference to the attacking player.
Agreed on general principle. It is moronic to be measuring millimetres in order to judge if someone is offside or not. But as they have been doing so since the beginning of the season, declaring that Wolves's goal should have stood is wrong. It was offside by the standards they have in place today. Hence it was rightfully disallowed.
 

Flobs

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While you guys argue over the bias of Anthony Tyler, you realise that the FA changed the rules from last season concerning build up and hands, and that pictures from the angles I have seen show that Van Dijk was unfortunate and caugth the ball with his hand before his excellent pass. That means that the Lallana thing that Tyler blew for should be irrelevant, and that Wolves should probably, as far as I understand, had a free kick. When a hands happen in the build up, it does have to be willed to be blown (I didn't know this before a friend showed it to me late last night, which kind of ruined some of the enjoyment of the victory for me).
I fear that if we deploy total honesty, we were actually lucky and that Wolves should probably have won this game 1-0 (yeah, yeah, chances and such, but our goal should probably indeed not stand, while theirs probably should.) or at the very least drawn. They were quite unlucky. After having seen the game, I got a bit of a bad taste in my mouth to be honest.

Then again, I suppose this could have happened just as often without VAR, but with VAR, it is strange that we win this game tbh. Very skeptical of those VAR ref's and I often wonder what kind of program they use (they say it is a different one to that the tv guys use). Anyway, I won't cry over 3 undeserved points, but feel for Wolves fans.
What? If niether side scores it's 0-0 draw. Even so if we hadn't have scored we would have pushed until we did. We still win the match lad. ;)
 

jredp

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my tuppence on our goal, Coady is looking at the whole picture (so to speak ) and he doesn't raise his arms for handball at all. That should have been enough either for Anthony or VAR to make a quick decision about it not being 'handball '.
 

Flobs

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I can see it as he does lift his arm in a way that someone who was trying to handle it would. However, why is there absolutely no discussion on the fact that he only failed to control it because the Wolves player clattered him in the back?
There was definitely a foul there and potentially a penalty. Lallana's arm was in that position because the Wolves player was pushing it there.
All I can really comment on is how pissed off the ref looked on both VAR decissions which is my criteria for him being biased.
 

jredp

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what a great year 2019, for our lads, especially the second half, 1st half (year), best ever points tally but only second in the league, 2nd half, 3 trophies, and ending the year unbeaten with 18 out of 19 wins in the toughest league in the world. RESPECT to our lads, Klopp and his staff and our supporters. Am I in heaven? Yes, and I want this forever! .......I mean, to the 2nd half being on this forever and ever
 

The Elusive 19th

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You can tell it's not handball because of how far/high the ball bounces.

Get a footy and throw it at your upper arm, it'll die. There's nothing there to spring it that distance.

Throw it at your shoulder and it bounces off at pace.

It's that simple really.
What about the bounce from armpit or armpit hair?
 

GaryC

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Jul 13, 2017
Messages
131
Just checked the balance of fixtures we still have to play in the league. IMO
Sheff Utd home
City away
Wolves away
Man Utd home
Spurs away (Jose would love to do us in)
Everton away (Ancelloti)
Watford away
Arsenal away (Arteta)
are dangerous matches with banana skin potential. Total them up and that's 24 points max we could drop. So, here's hoping our boys continue to be as determined and angry on the field in this coming year!
Happy New Year and YNWA!
 

Magnus

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Dec 11, 2018
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What? If niether side scores it's 0-0 draw. Even so if we hadn't have scored we would have pushed until we did. We still win the match lad. ;)
Yeah, Limescouse explained to me that my friend was wrong anyway.It doesn't really matter, but when he showed me that article with narrow VAR decisions all going against Wolves this season, which is his beloved team, I found in my heart some empathy and sympathy. And then I watched our game with quite critical eyes. I was perhaps too critical then. But all in all, I am just very happy we won. Just a shame that it became some what controversial with those VAR situations, but the REF is responsible for those errors and no one can in any case blame our players.
 

Commando

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If anything, VAR is doing the job that I always hoped it would - casting a light on the worst referees and forcing the standards up.

Anthony Taylor is just piss poor. A crap, context referee guessing and bluffing his way through football games.
I’m not sure that it is making them perform better? Hence Taylor last night and Atkinson all season. Also Pawson in the Arse Chavski game.


I can see it as he does lift his arm in a way that someone who was trying to handle it would. However, why is there absolutely no discussion on the fact that he only failed to control it because the Wolves player clattered him in the back?
I said that at the time.


One good thing about last night’s result. Nine years ago to the day, we lost against Wolves to a Stephen Ward goal. It’s probably my only bad time watching football while here over Christmas for the last however many years.

The result got that monkey off my back. I watched us lose in a bar that I’ve only ever been in that one time. I might pop in there again.
 

[email protected]

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I’m not sure that it is making them perform better? Hence Taylor last night and Atkinson all season. Also Pawson in the Arse Chavski game.




I said that at the time.


One good thing about last night’s result. Nine years ago to the day, we lost against Wolves to a Stephen Ward goal. It’s probably my only bad time watching football while here over Christmas for the last however many years.

The result got that monkey off my back. I watched us lose in a bar that I’ve only ever been in that one time. I might pop in there again.
Not sure of you meant that you watched yesterdays game there but if you didn't and you have not been back there since we lost that game for the love of God, no! Stay away, stay very far away.
 

shachart

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The rule change for handball on a goal focuses on 3 specific aspects of the play:
1) the goal scorer
2) the player who gave him the ball
3) the player who won the ball for the goal scoring side.

In all 3 of those the new rule now states that any contact with the hand no matter how incidental is now a handball if the move results in a goal. For all other aspects of the play the traditional handball rule is in play. VVD's role in the goal was not any of the above 3 scenarios so it doesnt matter if it did marginally brush his hand.
Question, does this rule apply to every scenario ? Thinking of the Utd goal against us, after Origi lost the ball.
 

Flobs

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Yeah, Limescouse explained to me that my friend was wrong anyway.It doesn't really matter, but when he showed me that article with narrow VAR decisions all going against Wolves this season, which is his beloved team, I found in my heart some empathy and sympathy. And then I watched our game with quite critical eyes. I was perhaps too critical then. But all in all, I am just very happy we won. Just a shame that it became some what controversial with those VAR situations, but the REF is responsible for those errors and no one can in any case blame our players.
it's a team I follow to some extent as I have many friends from there (even been to some matches when they, Wolves, were in lower divisions). They have had a rough time with VAR and those that I know from there will be going 'apeshit'. Still they are fairly well placed which will give them a little cheer. :)
 

sportbilly1966

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While you guys argue over the bias of Anthony Tyler, you realise that the FA changed the rules from last season concerning build up and hands, and that pictures from the angles I have seen show that Van Dijk was unfortunate and caugth the ball with his hand before his excellent pass. That means that the Lallana thing that Tyler blew for should be irrelevant, and that Wolves should probably, as far as I understand, had a free kick. When a hands happen in the build up, it does have to be willed to be blown (I didn't know this before a friend showed it to me late last night, which kind of ruined some of the enjoyment of the victory for me).
I fear that if we deploy total honesty, we were actually lucky and that Wolves should probably have won this game 1-0 (yeah, yeah, chances and such, but our goal should probably indeed not stand, while theirs probably should.) or at the very least drawn. They were quite unlucky. After having seen the game, I got a bit of a bad taste in my mouth to be honest.

Then again, I suppose this could have happened just as often without VAR, but with VAR, it is strange that we win this game tbh. Very skeptical of those VAR ref's and I often wonder what kind of program they use (they say it is a different one to that the tv guys use). Anyway, I won't cry over 3 undeserved points, but feel for Wolves fans.
This was dealt with on TV by the guest ref saying that a handball in regards to VAR can only look at cancelling the goal if the last touch leading to assisting the goal came off the hand/arm of the player anything prior to that cannot be considered by VAR, this is only relation to handballs and not offsides/fouls etc and was part of the advice given to refs before the season began.
 

Commando

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Not sure of you meant that you watched yesterdays game there but if you didn't and you have not been back there since we lost that game for the love of God, no! Stay away, stay very far away.
No, I watched last night’s game in my usual haunt “The Slap & Tickle”. €1.50 a pint.
I was thinking of visiting the other bar on a non football night.

It’s always “The Slap” for the footy. (y):cool:
 

FGred

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While you guys argue over the bias of Anthony Tyler, you realise that the FA changed the rules from last season concerning build up and hands, and that pictures from the angles I have seen show that Van Dijk was unfortunate and caugth the ball with his hand before his excellent pass. That means that the Lallana thing that Tyler blew for should be irrelevant, and that Wolves should probably, as far as I understand, had a free kick. When a hands happen in the build up, it does have to be willed to be blown (I didn't know this before a friend showed it to me late last night, which kind of ruined some of the enjoyment of the victory for me).
I fear that if we deploy total honesty, we were actually lucky and that Wolves should probably have won this game 1-0 (yeah, yeah, chances and such, but our goal should probably indeed not stand, while theirs probably should.) or at the very least drawn. They were quite unlucky. After having seen the game, I got a bit of a bad taste in my mouth to be honest.

Then again, I suppose this could have happened just as often without VAR, but with VAR, it is strange that we win this game tbh. Very skeptical of those VAR ref's and I often wonder what kind of program they use (they say it is a different one to that the tv guys use). Anyway, I won't cry over 3 undeserved points, but feel for Wolves fans.
Who is Tyler?
 

Noo Noo

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You can tell it's not handball because of how far/high the ball bounces.

Get a footy and throw it at your upper arm, it'll die. There's nothing there to spring it that distance.

Throw it at your shoulder and it bounces off at pace.

It's that simple really.
You expect Taylor to understand human biology and physics. I'd be happy if he understood the rules of football.

I think it was right to check it and the ref should call for that check. Blowing early was the error.
 

[email protected]

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You expect Taylor to understand human biology and physics. I'd be happy if he understood the rules of football.

I think it was right to check it and the ref should call for that check. Blowing early was the error.
I watched it back with analysis from Owen, Wright (I think it was) and former referee Chris Foy. The whistle actually went after the ball hit the net.
 

jaffod

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There was definitely a foul there and potentially a penalty. Lallana's arm was in that position because the Wolves player was pushing it there.
All I can really comment on is how pissed off the ref looked on both VAR decissions which is my criteria for him being biased.
Not only did Taylor want to disallow our perfectly good goal, but the time it took to come to the right decision nearly enabled Wolves to equalise. Their disallowed goal would never have happened had Taylor just done his fucking job properly.
 

nobluff

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Just going through the game now as I have heard a few things about the potential VVD handball and the refs whistle, among other things.

1. Refs whistle is only blown once the ball hits the back of the net. Definitive, no doubt about it. Ref might have had whistle in mouth, however he definitely didn't blow too soon. The ball hits the shoulder, pretty much everyone agrees on that.

2. Cant tell about the VVD one. I have no idea if the ball grazes the atoms of his jersey. The thing I can tell you is that at this second, I only see 1 of 5 Wolves player ask for handball. It is a halfhearted appeal, that lasts for a nanosecond. He is in the absolute worst position to judge (basically touchline from the cameras perspective). The other 4 are basically looking right at VVD, and make no appeals. The ref actually has good line of sight, much better than the camera view. There are no wolves players blocking his view. He is relatively far away.

Now VAR. I really dont care how long it takes if its a correct call. I certainly dont want any subjectivity from the lineman added to the equation, as suggested by Lukas Brud, general secretary of the International Football Association Board. If this happens, we are basically going back to pre offside VAR (bar the obvious ones). I think the VAR offsides is perfect from the correct call POV, I do however think it can be vastly improved from a viewers point of view, and can be accomplished quicker. There is way too much technology for this not to happen.

  • Anyway, 3 deserved points.
  • 14 point clear (taking goal difference into account) with game in hand.
  • Wasteful finishing again.
  • Defense awesome again. have gone from set piece panic from approximately 2 years ago, to relative calm when it happens now. Anyone else feel that way?
  • Controlled most of the game. Wolves stood off and didn't force the issue until the later stages of the game. This is the way they play.