Post Match: Liverpool vs. Shrewsbury (4/2/2020)

Man of the March

  • Kelleher

    Votes: 5 5.1%
  • Williams

    Votes: 66 67.3%
  • Hoever

    Votes: 5 5.1%
  • van den Berg

    Votes: 16 16.3%
  • Lewis

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Clarkson (off 90+2)

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • Chirivella

    Votes: 25 25.5%
  • Cain

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • Elliott (off 90+4)

    Votes: 20 20.4%
  • Millar (off 82)

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • Jones

    Votes: 53 54.1%
  • Boyes (on 90+2)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dixon-Bonner (on 90+4)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hardy (on 82)

    Votes: 2 2.0%

  • Total voters
    98

Red Armada

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I don't really get the venom aimed at the FA by posters on here. Can anyone show me where they have made any criticism of the club playing a youth side? You can bet your life there is one final above all others they are praying for and that is LFC v City... I have no doubt they were immensely relieved after our win last night.

I would imagine that this will ensure that 4th round replays will disappear next season.
Their decision not to televise the game to a wide audience, after all that's been said and done, speaks volumes of what their attitude is.

Fuck 'em.
 

Jimmyscase

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Regarding the VAR decision, it's noticeable that the VAR footage on the Beeb doesn't show any offside/onside lines being drawn on the pitch.



In my opinion this is because, when Williams kicks the ball, Whalley is clearly in an offside position, and he (Whalley) remains "offside" throughout the remainder of the play because only Shrewsbury players touch the ball i.e. he isn't played onside by Liverpool deliberately playing the ball.

In other words, from Williams kicking the ball, to Whalley scoring, (I believe) it can be considered to be a single phase of play.

So, when Whalley heads the ball in, after a deliberate save by Kelleher, he becomes active, and the goal is disallowed.
That's a perfect summary of the basis for the VAR overturn in practice. There's every chance a really top class ref would have been able to have Whalley's position at the beginning of the move in mind during the
whole phase of Shrewsbury-only ball contact right up till the save and therefore register that the Whalley knock in was by a player who had never been 'onside'. That top class ref in pre-VAR days would have correctly blown for offside. VAR deals with the sad reality that really top class referees were always thin on the ground, thus now we get a much higher % of factually correct offside calls. If the offside law is a fool, begs another question.
 

Magnus

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Embarrassing and cringeworthy, yes. Funny? Sadly not.
I thought embarrassing and cringeworthy made it amusing. Also, I thought they were incredibly unprofessional, which I thought a bit funny. Imo, it just shows you that football pundits don't always behave any more rational or decently than many fans, and in some cases less.
 

Alright Now

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I thought embarrassing and cringeworthy made it amusing. Also, I thought they were incredibly unprofessional, which I thought a bit funny. Imo, it just shows you that football pundits don't always behave any more rational or decently than many fans, and in some cases less.
The part I found amusing: Nicol not even slightly fazed by Burley’s head exploding in a gazillion pieces.
 

FGred

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No way he had made errors before and after due to lack of concentration and tiredness. He needs to learn to keep these things in check. That own goal should do him good. In his favor our kids were putting enormous effort into pressureising their defense, that pressure caused the error.
I thought the guy that should shoulder most of the blame was the goalkeeper who thought he was Allison by throwing a long ball directly at our players?
 

sportbilly1966

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That's a perfect summary of the basis for the VAR overturn in practice. There's every chance a really top class ref would have been able to have Whalley's position at the beginning of the move in mind during the
whole phase of Shrewsbury-only ball contact right up till the save and therefore register that the Whalley knock in was by a player who had never been 'onside'. That top class ref in pre-VAR days would have correctly blown for offside. VAR deals with the sad reality that really top class referees were always thin on the ground, thus now we get a much higher % of factually correct offside calls. If the offside law is a fool, begs another question.
This has been covered earlier in the thread, it was an earlier in th sequence with a pass out wide where their player received the ball coming back from an offside position
 

FGred

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Anyhow the BBC are running a "Was Klopp right to stay away"....

Seems the fans of other clubs want to avoid reading the story so have left it to Liverpool fans to boost it. I would have preferred if he was in the stands but I understand it. Nothing mentioned of Milner's involvement by the pros. I have noticed the cautious approach by some on the mid winter break, it does seem they've moved on to the narrative of him not being there.
I thought the guy that should shoulder most of the blame was the goalkeeper who thought he was Allison by throwing a long ball directly at our players?
But Critch made sure everyone knew that he was there and with a voice full of pride and emotion he praised Millie for his humility and modesty in trying to help the youngsters now that is man who is a legend already in my book and represented JK with distinction.
 

Rambler

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That's a perfect summary of the basis for the VAR overturn in practice. There's every chance a really top class ref would have been able to have Whalley's position at the beginning of the move in mind during the whole phase of Shrewsbury-only ball contact right up till the save and therefore register that the Whalley knock in was by a player who had never been 'onside'. That top class ref in pre-VAR days would have correctly blown for offside. VAR deals with the sad reality that really top class referees were always thin on the ground, thus now we get a much higher % of factually correct offside calls. If the offside law is a fool, begs another question.
That is the linesman's job...not the referee in the middle. How can any referee possibly judge who is offside and that is not something they need to look for. They react to the flag...........
 

petergriffin2020

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Jan 28, 2020
Messages
107
What a result, what a performance, what a night!

Initially, I have to say I was conflicted for a while about Klopp's decision to skip the replay. If nothing else, I thought, he could have given the senior players the week off without skipping the game himself. That being said, the more I thought about it I ultimately agree that scheduling replays in the middle of a pre-ordained "break" which has supposedly been put in place to give the players rest — good on the FA for moving into the 21st century, even if it is for the benefit of the national team and not because the players need a break (!) — is absolutely ridiculous and should be treated as such. He was always going to take a lot of flak anyway, and ultimately if that's the price for giving our senior players a well-deserved (and much-needed!) rest in their League pursuit then I'm OK with it. It was a protest that I found justified.

Anyway, none of that should distract from how the players performed last night. They had a point to prove and they did it exceptionally. I think Jones and Elliot are ready to come into the first team more regularly, and Williams had a fantastic game as well. Can't really think of anyone who didn't turn up — we were brilliant and the manner of our performance was quite similar to what we've come to expect from the first team. That's a sign of a well-run club, and that's what we are at the moment! And that's not even taking into account the statement the result must have made to the FA...devaluing the FA Cup, have a laugh. Just because the players out there aren't senior internationals doesn't mean they're not going to fight for every blade of grass!

Oh, and given all the pre-match fare, a sell-out crowd on a weeknight in the FA Cup is even more exceptional. Some so-called "big" teams can't even sell out for their League games...
 

RedLar

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Oct 25, 2014
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Regarding the VAR decision, it's noticeable that the VAR footage on the Beeb doesn't show any offside/onside lines being drawn on the pitch.



In my opinion this is because, when Williams kicks the ball, Whalley is clearly in an offside position, and he (Whalley) remains "offside" throughout the remainder of the play because only Shrewsbury players touch the ball i.e. he isn't played onside by Liverpool deliberately playing the ball.

In other words, from Williams kicking the ball, to Whalley scoring, (I believe) it can be considered to be a single phase of play.

So, when Whalley heads the ball in, after a deliberate save by Kelleher, he becomes active, and the goal is disallowed.
The offside is not in this part of the play. There is no offside in the above clip.

The offside that was called, was one or two passes previous, where the Shrew winger comes back from an offside position. It was close, but offside was correct.
 

Limiescouse

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The offside is not in this part of the play. There is no offside in the above clip.

The offside that was called, was one or two passes previous, where the Shrew winger comes back from an offside position. It was close, but offside was correct.
Thank you for the clarification. I have been pulling my hair out over this as there is nothing in the clip they kept showing over and over that shows an offside. For clarification, whether the goal scorer is offside is only relevant at the point the other striker shoots. At that point he was being kept onside by Hoever.
 

Lowton_Red

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The offside is not in this part of the play. There is no offside in the above clip.

The offside that was called, was one or two passes previous, where the Shrew winger comes back from an offside position. It was close, but offside was correct.
Then why is it shown as the VAR sequence?
 

KYRed18

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Then why is it shown as the VAR sequence?
For some reason the wrong VAR sequence keeps popping up. I watched the FULL VAR sequence on ESPN+ this morning, and the lines were clearly drawn for the two passes previously where the Shrews guy attempts to come back from an offside position but fails to get back before the ball is kicked to him. VAR will always check the entire sequence of play upon initial review. That is the issue, many media outlets are only putting the initial VAR review which is ALWAYS a full length view of the play prior to going to the line drawing escapade. They are just trying to make something fit a narrative that sells clicks.
 

Lowton_Red

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The offside is not in this part of the play. There is no offside in the above clip.

The offside that was called, was one or two passes previous, where the Shrew winger comes back from an offside position. It was close, but offside was correct.
For some reason the wrong VAR sequence keeps popping up. I watched the FULL VAR sequence on ESPN+ this morning, and the lines were clearly drawn for the two passes previously where the Shrews guy attempts to come back from an offside position but fails to get back before the ball is kicked to him. VAR will always check the entire sequence of play upon initial review. That is the issue, many media outlets are only putting the initial VAR review which is ALWAYS a full length view of the play prior to going to the line drawing escapade. They are just trying to make something fit a narrative that sells clicks.
Right. Thanks for that. It doesn't help when you're not shown the whole picture. The VAR sequence shown on the beeb and LFCTV is as I've posted; and the LFCTV commentators said it was Whalley, who was offside.
Hey Ho.
So it was actually the Shrews number 3, Golbourne, playing the ball after coming back from an offside position.
 

Limiescouse

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I am starting to get a bit pissed off with the narrative that Klopp has been vindicated by last night's result. He hasn't been. He didn't do this because he though his U23s would win. He did it because it was the right thing to do. Therefore the result is a bonus, not the metric by which Klopp's decision should be judged.