POST MATCH: Man City v Liverpool (EPL 3/1/19 8pm)

[Caradoc]

Don’t give a shit now ...... done and dusted ......... on to the next match ........... !



(I think ...... ! )

 

[Alright Now]

Thanks to @nobluff for an amazing run of previews. Hope he starts anew if he has the time and energy.

YNWA

 

[Red over the water]

City 2-1 Liverpool
https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2019/01/03/england/premier-league/manchester-city-football-club/liverpool-fc/2795476/

PSG 2-1 Liverpool
https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2018/11/28/europe/uefa-champions-league/paris-saint-germain-fc/liverpool-fc/2909075/

Napoli 1-0 Liverpool [Keita OUT - Hendo IN 19']
https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2018/10/03/europe/uefa-champions-league/ssc-napoli/liverpool-fc/2909070/

Chelsea 1-1 Liverpool [Sturridge goal 89']
https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2018/09/29/england/premier-league/chelsea-football-club/liverpool-fc/2795333/

Real Madrid 3-1 Liverpool
https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2018/05/26/europe/uefa-champions-league/real-madrid-club-de-futbol/liverpool-fc/2778478/

Roma 4-2 Liverpool
https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2018/05/02/europe/uefa-champions-league/as-roma/liverpool-fc/2778477/


Henderson, Wijnaldum, Milner.
6G, 5L, 1D, 0W, F6, A13

I liked the post because of the research that went into it. Obviously the sampling of games is of the highest level, and a more balanced post would have named the many games we have won with that trio, including the great start to this season, where we have depended on them quite a lot while Fabinho and Keita get up to speed.

All that said, I am on the side of the debate that wants to see Fabinho and Keita play more. I think they are the future for our midfield, and then the other one to play with them might depend on a horses for courses sort of situation - do we need more of a physical presence with them, or another attack-minded midfielder?

Anyhow, I think during the rest of the season the Fabinho/Keita axis will start to come to the fore as the team continues to evolve. But I won't put the boot in on Henderson/Milner/Wijnaldum as they are good players and have served, and continue to serve, the club well.

 

[Lowton_Red]

Was just saying I can’t see contact, and I think Mo made a meal of it to sway the ref.

I've slowed the action down & circled the point of contact for you.

 

[Red over the water]

It's the day after the night before, and while a loss doesn't feel great, at all, it's not disastrous. We can and will regroup, and we are also 4 points clear at the top.

It was a very tactical game, with both teams excelling in shutting the other one down from being able to play their usual game. It turned on a couple of moments, a post here, a post there, 11mm, a yellow not a red.

Such is life.

I'm proud of our boys and think we will go on a good run now and put this well and truly behind us.

I think the media excitement is over the prospect of a close title race more than anything else. It's good for the neutral and good for their 'product'. Let them have it.

 

[Red Eyes]

BBC Website:

Nathaniel Clyne: Bournemouth to sign Liverpool right-back on loan

Bournemouth are set to sign Liverpool defender Nathaniel Clyne on loan until the end of the season.

The 27-year-old England right-back has struggled with injury and played only five games last season.

He has made two starts in five appearances this term and is behind Trent Alexander-Arnold in the pecking order at Anfield.

Clyne, who was also a target for Cardiff City, joined Liverpool from Southampton for £12.5m in 2015.

Bournemouth are without a recognised right-back because captain Simon Francis has been ruled out for up to nine months with a ruptured anterior cruciate knee ligament, and Adam Smith has been out since November after having knee surgery.

 

[Retro Helix]

LFC's PL record thus far:
WWWWWWDDWWDWWWWWWWWWLovren

 

[lfc.eddie]

Like I said in the first line

“I agree it’s a straight red, potentially a leg breaker with control lost and studs up”

It doesn’t matter if he made contact or not, it’s a red.

Was just saying I can’t see contact, and I think Mo made a meal of it to sway the ref.

Well if Salah didn't jump out of the of that foot with studs heading towards his ankle, I am quite sure it would have broken his leg. You think only then it should be justified for us to moan?

 

[Red Eyes]

I've slowed the action down & circled the point of contact for you.

Got it, thanks LR.

Yep def contact, and def a red.

Hard for the ref to see in real time.

Thank goodness it wasn’t his standing leg.

Still not convinced it hurt as much as Mo made out, but that’s the game these days so can’t blame him.

 

[Caradoc]

Like I said in the first line

“I agree it’s a straight red, potentially a leg breaker with control lost and studs up”

It doesn’t matter if he made contact or not, it’s a red.

Was just saying I can’t see contact, and I think Mo made a meal of it to sway the ref.

I agree it’s a straight red, potentially a leg breaker with control lost and studs up.

However I’m struggling to see contact if I’m completely honest.

Mo made of a meal of it like every other player would in a game of this magnitude, but I’m not sure he was hurt in the slightest.

Am bracing myself for the flack that will inevitably follow!

Dear me. I don’t think you understand how this works do you? If I could give a ‘Dislike’ for those two posts I would. Sorry but I am gobsmacked that you could interpret a tackle like that in this way. Wow!

 

[Red Eyes]

Well if Salah didn't jump out of the of that foot with studs heading towards his ankle, I am quite sure it would have broken his leg. You think only then it should be justified for us to moan?

Move on Eddie

 

[mazpool]

I liked the post because of the research that went into it. Obviously the sampling of games is of the highest level, and a more balanced post would have named the many games we have won with that trio, including the great start to this season, where we have depended on them quite a lot while Fabinho and Keita get up to speed.

All that said, I am on the side of the debate that wants to see Fabinho and Keita play more. I think they are the future for our midfield, and then the other one to play with them might depend on a horses for courses sort of situation - do we need more of a physical presence with them, or another attack-minded midfielder?

Anyhow, I think during the rest of the season the Fabinho/Keita axis will start to come to the fore as the team continues to evolve. But I won't put the boot in on Henderson/Milner/Wijnaldum as they are good players and have served, and continue to serve, the club well.

As soon as I saw the lineup for the game, I knew what was coming,
No ball control in midfield Check
No period of accurate passing Check
Get overrun in midfield Check
Defense will be exposed Check
Attack will be isolated Check
Then against a strong team, well you lose. You can survive with this midfield against smaller teams because of the fire power we have and strong defense. Are we going to learn from our mistakes, I doubt it. Our manager don't see the issue, and don't tell me we were doing great and beating teams, we are doing what anyone should expect from a team with the players we have. Powerful attack, strong defense and an excellent goalkeeper. We are not over achieving. but we are bottling big games with that (Stupid midfield selection). As individuals, with different formations and different players around them, they can play better.
Kill me if you want, but I think we are not going to win anything. And all that talk of biting hands if we are offered this position in August, well it is rubbish. We are a very strong team and we should doing what we are doing, no less. We are only in the lead because city lost three times. watch what happen if we draw or lose our next game.
We are wasting our chances, and will continue to do so.
Feel better to get that out of my chest, now you can shoot me.

 

[Limiescouse]

Do yourselves a favour boys and girls, ignore the media especially Skysports. They are Manchester biased and always have been.
Forget about last nights game and look at the table in isolation, top by 4 with 1 defeat in 21.

Or, even look at last night's game. As you said we went to the home of the side almost universally backed to win the league and still considered favourites by many and went toe to toe with them were on top for long stretches of the game and lost by the tiniest of margins. This is a game that has been described in the immediate aftermath as one of the greatest games in premier league history. The captain of the winning side has described as the greatest performance this side has ever put in. This wasnt great because they dominated us. It was great because we presented such a challenge that it required an uber performance and level of physical commitment from them to sneak over the line. That is what this side has become...a win against us at home by the smallest margins now qualifies as an all time great team performance. That is game that should only justify why we are top of the table. Yet, sadly and predictably, we are seeing here unending criticism of our players and determinations of numerous player being not good enough. It is a pathetic response that is beneath what this team deserves.

As for the game, I am stunned that what was a fairly clear red card offense by Fernandinho around the tenth minute not only went utterly unpunished, but has been completely ignored in the post-game discussions. It was an utter disgrace of a challenge.

As for the aftermath, I have no doubt that they will drop points again before we do. They looked like a boxer who left everything in the ring and hung on to see the final bell and take the fight on points. Those are the sorts of performances, especially ones so emotionally driven, that leave you flat in the subsequent games...and they have some tricky fixtures coming up. We in contrast will go home knowing we deserve to be top of the league.

 

[FGred]

Do yourselves a favour boys and girls, ignore the media especially Skysports. They are Manchester biased and always have been.
Forget about last nights game and look at the table in isolation, top by 4 with 1 defeat in 21. That would have looked impossible at the start of the season. We lost by the odd goal and by less than the width of my little finger against the best side the league has ever seen. Perspective is needed.

Instead Read the report from Kevin Garside from the Independent it is as Objective an article as you could wish for and it also lifted last night depression after that result.

 

[Red Eyes]

Dear me. I don’t think you understand how this works do you?

Of course I understand how it works.

It was a dangerous tackle, and like I said from the very start it deserved a red whether there was contact or not.

At first I couldn’t see the contact, until someone highlighted it.

Fortunately it was not in Mo’s standing leg, instead it was a brush against his foot in the air which flexed. There was no hard impact. I’ve been up ended in Sunday league football dozens of times by tackles like that over the years, and they don’t hurt as your foot and knee flex to disperse the impact.

It was a bad tackle deserving red, but anyone that genuinely thinks Mo was in agony after that tackle is deluded.

The roll overs and agonised clutching was all for the benefit of the referee, trying to sway a yellow into red. No slant on Mo, as rightly or wrongly most players would have done the same.

It’s not blasphemy to say Mo made a meal out if it.

As a matter of interest, how do you think it works Caradoc?

 

[SirBillShankly]

LFC's PL record thus far:
WWWWWWDDWWDWWWWWWWWWLovren

UTTER BOLLOCKS.

 

[T.C.B]

As soon as I saw the lineup for the game, I knew what was coming,
No ball control in midfield Check
No period of accurate passing Check
Get overrun in midfield Check
Defense will be exposed Check
Attack will be isolated Check
Then against a strong team, well you lose. You can survive with this midfield against smaller teams because of the fire power we have and strong defense. Are we going to learn from our mistakes, I doubt it. Our manager don't see the issue, and don't tell me we were doing great and beating teams, we are doing what anyone should expect from a team with the players we have. Powerful attack, strong defense and an excellent goalkeeper. We are not over achieving. but we are bottling big games with that (Stupid midfield selection). As individuals, with different formations and different players around them, they can play better.
Kill me if you want, but I think we are not going to win anything. And all that talk of biting hands if we are offered this position in August, well it is rubbish. We are a very strong team and we should doing what we are doing, no less. We are only in the lead because city lost three times. watch what happen if we draw or lose our next game.
We are wasting our chances, and will continue to do so.
Feel better to get that out of my chest, now you can shoot me.

If you knew all that simply from the line up maybe you should be a Manager mate. Ring Edwards, get Klopp sacked because as you say he cant see the issue, and get yourself hired........you'll be a hero.
Its also a fact that a ball being 11mm from crossing the line would have made all that irrelevant.

 

[LFC-Orlando]

Singling out certain players is a bit harsh IMO.

Too many of us were not playing at 100% last night and City must take credit for that.

I'll take some solace that despite not being at our best we were still able to go toe to toe with them. Had the game gone on longer I certainly felt we have would have got an equaliser. It was that tight. We are top because we deserve to be. Last night doesn't change that.

Oh you didn't know? The media have come to agreement that this was the BEST PL game this season.

It was amazing and so intense. Of course at the end LFC caved in and lost. So there. How convenient: the one LFC loss is the BEST game you'll ever see.

How about the recent Arsenal 5-1 game. That was the best game of the season. It had excitement, one of the 2 teams came back from a goal down, and many more goals than yesterday.

Or how about the Man Citeh Palace 2-3 game, eh?

 

[mazpool]

If you knew all that simply from the line up maybe you should be a Manager mate. Ring Edwards, get Klopp sacked because as you say he cant see the issue, and get yourself hired........you'll be a hero.
Its also a fact that a ball being 11mm from crossing the line would have made all that irrelevant.

Ok, why you are sure we would have won if we scored a goal ? you cant tell what would have happened then.
I can see an issue that a lot of people can see, that does not mean I am the next big thing.
I say he cant see the issue because he is doing the same thing all over again, and same outcome.
That's all

 

[rupzzz]

Don't see the value in flogging a dead horse with regards to the challenge and potential red. It's done, it's over. It should have been red, but we have had the benefit of slow mos, replays etc.

Virgil should have seen red against Napoli a few weeks ago - we won that game, and I didn't see an inquisition into the fact that one of our own should have been sent off.

Sometimes the decision goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. It isn't the first, or the last time.

 

[Caradoc]

Of course I understand how it works.

It was a dangerous tackle, and like I said from the very start it deserved a red whether there was contact or not.

At first I couldn’t see the contact, until someone highlighted it.

Fortunately it was not in Mo’s standing leg, instead it was a brush against his foot in the air which flexed. There was no hard impact. I’ve been up ended in Sunday league football dozens of times by tackles like that over the years, and they don’t hurt as your foot and knee flex to disperse the impact.

It was a bad tackle deserving red, but anyone that genuinely thinks Mo was in agony after that tackle is deluded.

The roll overs and agonised clutching was all for the benefit of the referee, trying to sway a yellow into red. No slant on Mo, as rightly or wrongly most players would have done the same.

It’s not blasphemy to say Mo made a meal out if it.

As a matter of interest, how do you think it works Caradoc?

I’m not the one claiming that Mo milked what was a very dangerous tackle that involved contact. I believe that was you. You’ve already had a go at eddie now you’re doing it to me. You admitted in your initial post that you expected flak. Now you’re getting flak you seem to have an issue with it.

How Mo reacted is irrelevant. It really didn’t need highlighting. The issue was whether it should have been a red card ..... and it most definitely should have!

As you told eddie ..... move on ....... !

 

[T.C.B]

Ok, why you are sure we would have won if we scored a goal ? you cant tell what would have happened then.
I can see an issue that a lot of people can see, that does not mean I am the next big thing.
I say he cant see the issue because he is doing the same thing all over again, and same outcome.
That's all

Firstly I didn't say we would have won if we scored that goal.
You made all sorts of claims about what would happen simply based on the line up, interestingly I don't remember you making them before the game kicked off. If you did, find them and quote them and we'll concede you know your stuff.
You also claimed you can see the issue that the Manager cant. If you can out think Klopp why don't you do it for real?
Now you complain he's doing the "same thing all over again" with the same outcome. Can you remember the last time we were in such a strong position being top by 4 points ahead of probably the best side of the modern PL era? How can that be the same?
Did you think all these things after the Arsenal, Newcastle or UTD games too?
To come out and make these statements after a 20 game unbeaten run is frankly ridiculous.

 

[SirBillShankly]

I hope something that Jürgen learns from this game is that Fabinho now HAS to start big games. He improves our midfield dramatically, we look a better team with him in it don't we?

We really missed his forward chipped passes in and around their area.
I really feel he needs to move on from his tried and trusted Hendo, Milner, Gini combo and go with Fabinho and 2 others, preferably Gini and Naby.

 

[indianaredman96]

You must have been watching a different match to me.

Our midfield struggled for long periods of the first half. If we were in the game it was by our finger tips at times because our midfield was second best. When Fabinho came on it made a big difference. Milner looked shagged out when he walked off. I won’t say any more than that because I am not prepared to criticise Milner for that. The blame lies elsewhere.

I agree that the tone of the criticism is OTT but I don’t understand why that particular trio is played together. I think moving forward one out of Milner and Henderson has to stand down in favour of Fabinho. And on balance that player is probably Henderson.

The word shit was probably the wrong word to use (heat of the moment) But You can not tell me that that is our best three. They were not controlling the ball and cannot take players on 1v1 except for Gini. they were one touching forward most of the game because the were over run. My main point is I love all of them just not together.

 

[Red Eyes]

I’m not the one claiming that Mo milked what was a very dangerous tackle that involved contact. I believe that was you. You’ve already had a go at eddie now you’re doing it to me. You admitted in your initial post that you expected flak. Now you’re getting flak you seem to have an issue with it.

How Mo reacted is irrelevant. It really didn’t need highlighting. The issue was whether it should have been a red card ..... and it most definitely should have!

As you told eddie ..... move on ....... !

Zzzzzzz yep moving on

 

[mazpool]

Firstly I didn't say we would have won if we scored that goal.
You made all sorts of claims about what would happen simply based on the line up, interestingly I don't remember you making them before the game kicked off. If you did, find them and quote them and we'll concede you know your stuff.
You also claimed you can see the issue that the Manager cant. If you can out think Klopp why don't you do it for real?
Now you complain he's doing the "same thing all over again" with the same outcome. Can you remember the last time we were in such a strong position being top by 4 points ahead of probably the best side of the modern PL era? How can that be the same?
Did you think all these things after the Arsenal, Newcastle or UTD games too?
To come out and make these statements after a 20 game unbeaten run is frankly ridiculous.

Can you first check if we had that midfield against arsenal first?
I also said that this midfield work against small teams.
We were in finals before, big games against PSG, Roma , Napoli away and this. remind me what happened please?
Watch this space when that trio play together again in a big game.

 

[Zico Nealy]

Proud of the lads but I hope that first half showed Jurgen that that particular midfield trio is too limited to play at the sharpest end. It is fragile against fast passing midfielders and those who dip and run past the first man. None of the three is a specialist dcm who reads the danger a second or two ahead of the game in the way someone like Virgil does at the back. They all had decent moments but as a unit they never got near City first half, nor will they against Bayern if used then either. This then opens up another player with the same deficiencies in Lovren. Shame because the second half showed where we really stand, which is on par now with a team that was miles ahead this time last year. YNWA. Good run of fixtures now to cement top spot...could possibly take fifteen points from our next five. We go again.

 

[T.C.B]

I hope something that Jürgen learns from this game is that Fabinho now HAS to start big games. He improves our midfield dramatically, we look a better team with him in it don't we?

We really missed his forward chipped passes in and around their area.
I really feel he needs to move on from his tried and trusted Hendo, Milner, Gini combo and go with Fabinho and 2 others, preferably Gini and Naby.

I agree to an extent mate. The issue we as fans have is that unless Jurgen comes out and explains his thoughts and reasons on why he picks the players he does we have very little to go on. We can speculate and debate it but we have no access to the information he has nor do we see what he sees on the training pitch. Maybe he wanted Milners experience, Gini has stepped up his level this year, maybe there are small niggles and fitness issues we don't know about.
There is little doubt that Fabinho is slowly making himself 1st choice but against teams that start quickly and move it around at pace he can struggle.......Arsenal away as an example.

 

[Caradoc]

The word shit was probably the wrong word to use (heat of the moment) But You can not tell me that that is our best three. They were not controlling the ball and cannot take players on 1v1 except for Gini. they were one touching forward most of the game because the were over run. My main point is I love all of them just not together.

That post was in response to one from Magnus.

Apart from that I’m confused as to why you have posted that reply in response to my own post because it doesn’t make much sense to me. Sorry.

 

[SirBillShankly]

I agree to an extent mate. The issue we as fans have is that unless Jurgen comes out and explains his thoughts and reasons on why he picks the players he does we have very little to go on. We can speculate and debate it but we have no access to the information he has nor do we see what he sees on the training pitch. Maybe he wanted Milners experience, Gini has stepped up his level this year, maybe there are small niggles and fitness issues we don't know about.
There is little doubt that Fabinho is slowly making himself 1st choice but against teams that start quickly and move it around at pace he can struggle.......Arsenal away as an example.

He was still finding his feet at Arsenal though. I'm thinking he didn't play this one as he gave the ball away in dangerous areas 3 times against Arsenal and Newcastle. You would think that was fresh in Jurgen mind.

I hope we only see 1 of Milly and Hendo going forward, both are limited and too similar to play together for my liking.

And why on earth is Naby taking so long to find his feet?! I am starting to feel that situation frustrating as I thought he was going to be sensational for us this season.