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Post match: Man Utd v Liverpool (20/10/19 4.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Matip

    Votes: 6 4.8%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 22 17.5%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 18 14.3%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 20 15.9%
  • Henderson [off 71’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wijnaldum [off 82’]

    Votes: 28 22.2%
  • Origi [off 60’]

    Votes: 3 2.4%
  • Firmino

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 5 4.0%
  • Oxlade-Chamberlain [on 60’]

    Votes: 16 12.7%
  • Lallana [on 71’, GOAL 85’]

    Votes: 66 52.4%
  • Keita [on 82’]

    Votes: 15 11.9%

  • Total voters
    126
  • Poll closed .


Foldy

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Oct 28, 2014
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1,402
A few players coming off the back of International duties, no Salah, thunderc**t Atkinson doing what he does best and tbh I think Old Trafford got to some of the lads as well. Positives are that Ox looked good and Lallana can do a job when he comes on. Ole gets to keep his job a little longer which is comedy gold for us. As the bloke says on Chernobyl, "not great, not terrible". Oh and Martin Tyler is a massive dick.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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Very disappointed with a point. This is the worst united side I've seen in my life time - proper relegation level team (18 points from last 18 games). Kind of disappointed with some of our fans saying a point at OT is always a good point. Historically yes... but when they are this bad, and we are this good, I am extremely disappointed that we played so poorly. Had we played like anything resembling what we are capable of we'd have won that comfortably. The only positive is that we didn't lose despite being behind. I can't bring myself to say it was a good point though, the same way I wouldn't say a point away at Newcastle, Watford or Brighton is a good point.
I kind of agree with you but the way the game went we could of lost it. I wanted and expected us to snot them, not just because theyre united but because we are better by some margin. The subs and tactical changes were good and did change the game I thought. Keita deffo did no harm to his chances of getting into the first 11 on a regular bases in the short amount of time he was on the pitch. Going forward Klopp will probably realise we need that bit of guise in midfield as teams just defend and try to counter because its their only hope.
 

Billy Biskix

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I see where you are coming from but these games are different and always have been.
We were utter tosh in the 90s but still raised our game at Anfield when united game to town.
It’s what true rivalry is. The atmosphere changes, the players find an extra desire.
The way I look at it is we came away with a point after playing pretty poorly.
Agree with all this. There was a time when all LFCTV ever seemed to do was show highlights of us drawing 3-3 with them in 1994 or 2-2 with them in 1999 as if they were two of the biggest results in our history. This is the place Utd are with us now. The crowd are right up for it, the players raise their game and it's a more even contest than it should be.

There are some spin-off benefits from this as others have said. It keeps Ole at the wheel for a while longer. The fans will have loved that yesterday and his little jibe about Martin Atkinson being one of the men of the match because he let the game flow. They will still have a chance to give us a bloody nose every season in a one-off game but they will remain irrelevant to us as PL or CL rivals and that's a good place to be.
 

LaurazRed

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1,162
Barring the foul which should have been given, honestly I thought we were awful. @Billy Biskix totally agree with you, it is a complete role reversal to the 90's where sometimes winning at their place was seen as major highlight. It's all about Genk and Spurs. We need to bounce back and show that was just a blip.
 
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KillerBeeLFC

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Agree with all this. There was a time when all LFCTV ever seemed to do was show highlights of us drawing 3-3 with them in 1994 or 2-2 with them in 1999 as if they were two of the biggest results in our history. This is the place Utd are with us now. The crowd are right up for it, the players raise their game and it's a more even contest than it should be.

There are some spin-off benefits from this as others have said. It keeps Ole at the wheel for a while longer. The fans will have loved that yesterday and his little jibe about Martin Atkinson being one of the men of the match because he let the game flow. They will still have a chance to give us a bloody nose every season in a one-off game but they will remain irrelevant to us as PL or CL rivals and that's a good place to be.
Maybe its a slight reverse now from the past. I doubt they ever enjoyed the thought of coming to Anfield because no matter what we would always try to make it tough and the crowd would be up for it.
 

liver1

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Feb 10, 2015
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1,968
We didnt play well, but to not play well and come away with a draw away at Old Trafford, we cant complain. Im sure we would like to have smashed them there for the first time in a long time, but weve just got to play with the cards were dealt with on the day. We werent at our best, they were really up for this game, the ref was biased throughout the game, and we came out with a point.

Taking these type of points, late in the game, away to big rivals are also a big kick in the nuts to Man City.

If this was reversed and it was Man City scoring a late goal having not played well, we would be a little disheartened thinking they always seem to be finding a way to grind out a result.

Well now its us who are the ones grinding out these results. The shoe is on the other foot now. The draw keeps our momentum going.
 

Gone Kloppo

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Barring the foul which should have been given, honestly I thought we awful. @Billy Biskix totally agree with you, it is a complete role reversal to the 90's where sometimes winning at their place was seen as major highlight. It's all about Genk and Spurs. We need to bounce back and show that was just a blip.
Spurs game is the one I've been worrying about for a while now. They seem to always match up well on us. I think we are at home?? Which would be a massive advantage. But still going to be as nervous as hell before this match. I know their form is poor but as United showed us, that means nothing when you have a chance to knock the frontrunner down a peg.
 

LaurazRed

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Spurs game is the one I've been worrying about for a while now. They seem to always match up well on us. I think we are at home?? Which would be a massive advantage. But still going to be as nervous as hell before this match. I know their form is poor but as United showed us, that means nothing
Yes we are at home, I'll be nervous too, city are playing the day before us, which adds a bit more pressure.
 

Scott Jones

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It's at times like this that my shit memory comes in useful,definitely one to forget but i'm glad i'm not living in manchester to witness the open top bus parade Ole and his gimps are having after this result.
 



Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
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Just for those again questioning Henderson's value to the team by using all of the usual misleading statistics (comparing early game to a fresh player late in game the most significant), I don't for a second think Klopp is questioning his value. When we needed a tight midfield when we were arm wrestling for control in the middle in the early game, Klopp correctly chose Hendo and Gini. When we went a goal down and United began tiring, we needed more attacking players in midfield and we brought on 3 attacking midfielders.

Horses for courses. Enjoy it instead of making it a competition.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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We were always going to drop points eventually. Coming off a 17 game winning run, I think we should be celebrating what the players have achieved, rather than taking the opportunity to get stuck into a couple of lads we’re not sure about.
 

Limiescouse

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13,837
I heard Solskjaer comment regarding the foul on Origi. He said there was some contact, but this is a physical game.
The thing that pisses me off about it is that it is a challenge from a position you cannot win the ball legally.
Just for those again questioning Henderson's value to the team by using all of the usual misleading statistics (comparing early game to a fresh player late in game the most significant), I don't for a second think Klopp is questioning his value. When we needed a tight midfield when we were arm wrestling for control in the middle in the early game, Klopp correctly chose Hendo and Gini. When we went a goal down and United began tiring, we needed more attacking players in midfield and we brought on 3 attacking midfielders.

Horses for courses. Enjoy it instead of making it a competition.
It's also worth mentioning that probably our clearest chance prior to the goal came from Hendo picking out Firmino in the box for what was about Bobby's only meaningful intervention in the game.
 

Abdel

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Just for those again questioning Henderson's value to the team by using all of the usual misleading statistics (comparing early game to a fresh player late in game the most significant), I don't for a second think Klopp is questioning his value. When we needed a tight midfield when we were arm wrestling for control in the middle in the early game, Klopp correctly chose Hendo and Gini. When we went a goal down and United began tiring, we needed more attacking players in midfield and we brought on 3 attacking midfielders.

Horses for courses. Enjoy it instead of making it a competition.
He's great at pressing the opposition, great at the simple pass, win it and give it to someone better than you, its simple but effective. Though when those players better than you are not playing well it just highlights his limitations.
 

Lostmyfunk 3421

Standing on the verge of getting it on
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Messages
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What a performance Mr Atkinson!!! Take a bow. That was like the 'Fergie Days'..Maybe they are to big to fail. Maybe a certain man just had huge transfer sent to an off shore hedge fund..who knows..it leaves me feeling a little sick, as it kept happening last night.
Too many whistle blows when we went into the tackle but then when they did it- the ref let it go. Time and time again..Felt iffy and almost a tad controversial. Maybe they (Premier League) want a tight race and, Utd must not leave the EPL as the sponsors will go else where or maybe I am being paranoid and he is just incompetent. Awful from the ref.

So happy though that Ox, Keita and Lallana had a chance..they deserve it. Ox MOM, just for his first touch on the turn that had me drooling. Love his eagerness to attack and he can pick a pass. Has so much potential- if that had gone in then if would have been wunderbar.
Keita was great too. Klopp know his quality. What a player- got the lot. His balance is incredible. Moves so effortlessly and see things others miss.
We will need them this year and I'd like to see one of two starting every game asap. Just adds a little extra magic. Finally, Adam Lallana. Chuffed to bits for him. Had terrible luck with injuries and is a class player- probably better than anyone else in England's l midfield in terms of on the ball talent.

Overall, still freaking out.about our FB's getting injured. Hope we get to see Keita and Ox this Wednesday!!!

"The referees a w###e#r"
 



CanuckoLFC

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Messages
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Every player has different strengths. Henderson is excellent at covering a lot of ground and supporting both attack and defence on the right hand side. This allows our front three and fullbacks to play more expansively. So it all depends on what Klopp wants to do tactically in the game. Henderson fits the bill for many of the games, so he starts.

As with all players, some days he will have an off day, and will get subbed. I don't go for this 'we have surpassed him' nonsense. The players get into the starting line up on merit.
^This. Thank you!

It boils my blood that the non-flashy, hard working, engine room type of players, like Hendo, always got picked on when there were the not-up-to-par games, or his team did not win by a massive margin. I cannot believe I am reading so many criticism against a player on an 11 pages thread. It is a team game, with a manager and co providing the tactics. Overall the team was poor, tactics was slightly off. Look at Bobby, he had an awful game with no time on the ball, or very poor passing. I am surprised but glad that Bobby did not receive the same venom spewed towards him. The opposition did well in defending against us. It takes 2 to dance, and Mancs came out and dance, despite with a gimped leg.

(Then again, I am a hypocrite :p , as I also criticize Lallana in one of the game he started, but got much better as the game went on.)
 
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Keegans Perm

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Referees and VAR officials should be interviewed after every game to explain debatable decisions. It needs to be done after the shit show of officiating this weekend.
Id love for that bellend Atkinson to answer the question....if you didnt think it was a foul on Origi, then obviously you must have thought he dived? Why wasnt he yellow carded for simulation?
Let the cunt sweat over that. If he cant provide an answer, drop the fucker to the Championship.
 

mazpool

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^This. Thank you!

It boils my blood that the non-flashy, hard working, engine room type of players, like Hendo, always got picked on when there were the not-up-to-par games, or his team did not win by a massive margin. I cannot believe I am reading so many criticism against a player on an 11 pages thread. It is a team game, with a manager and co providing the tactics. Overall the team was poor, tactics was slightly off. Look at Bobby, he had an awful game with no time on the ball, or very poor passing. I am surprised but glad that Bobby did not receive the same venom spewed towards him. The opposition did well in defending against us. It takes 2 to dance, and Mancs came out and dance, despite with a gimped leg.

(Then again, I am a hypocrite :p , as I also criticize Lallana in one of the game he started, but got much better as the game went on.)
I dont understand why this boils your blood. We are all Liverpool supporters, we want the best for our team. If there is a player that some people think we can upgrade on, I dont see why others are taking it personaly. Emotions apart, Henderson is an average player. Everybody talk about engine room but the engine room need quality, hard work is not always productive work. Some people, me included want a better player in there. it is not blasphemy.
Also Klopp tactics yesterday were old and dated. Origi on the left Mane on the right, when did this ever worked?. We missed Salah but instead of shuffling the team, why not be imaginative and use Trent as a right wing and Gomez at right back?, but Ox on the right from the start, do something different, but no same old same old, i know people will not like me but i had to say this.
 



Limiescouse

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I dont understand why this boils your blood. We are all Liverpool supporters, we want the best for our team. If there is a player that some people think we can upgrade on, I dont see why others are taking it personaly. Emotions apart, Henderson is an average player. Everybody talk about engine room but the engine room need quality, hard work is not always productive work. Some people, me included want a better player in there. it is not blasphemy.
Your post demonstrates his point. What Hendo does is not flashy, but it does not mean that it is done absent of quality. The frustration comes from dismissing Hendo as simply a hard worker when he is so much more than that. With that said, the 3 at the back with wing backs, does tend to clog the areas of the pitch from which we often cause other teams trouble. It puts the onus on the midfield to create from scratch and that is not the strength of any of the 3 we had on the pitch. With a month's more fitness under their belt, any of Lallana, Ox or Keita may have been valuable, but it seems the game just came too early for any of them.

Also Klopp tactics yesterday were old and dated. Origi on the left Mane on the right, when did this ever worked?. We missed Salah but instead of shuffling the team, why not be imaginative and use Trent as a right wing and Gomez at right back?, but Ox on the right from the start, do something different, but no same old same old, i know people will not like me but i had to say this.
Other than it being different, how does any of that make us actually better?
 

SBYM

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What p155es me off is that this could possibly (fingers crossed) be our last opportunity for a while to win at old toilet.
hahaha...

I was like, 'WTF?!?!? They'll be shit next year, too!!!'

Then I realised, it's hard to beat them when they're in the Championship...

Don't worry, I'm face-palming myself.

 

Noo Noo

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Your post demonstrates his point. What Hendo does is not flashy, but it does not mean that it is done absent of quality. The frustration comes from dismissing Hendo as simply a hard worker when he is so much more than that. With that said, the 3 at the back with wing backs, does tend to clog the areas of the pitch from which we often cause other teams trouble. It puts the onus on the midfield to create from scratch and that is not the strength of any of the 3 we had on the pitch. With a month's more fitness under their belt, any of Lallana, Ox or Keita may have been valuable, but it seems the game just came too early for any of them.


Other than it being different, how does any of that make us actually better?
I've been critical of Henderson in the past and a bit in the follow up to this game to be honest. To some degree I should have been equally critical of Origi, Mane and in particular TAA.

The issue with Henderson is that when your in games and struggling to create opportunities there is a natural tendency to look at the midfield. I'm as guilty as the next person. In actual fact we should perhaps be looking at the forward line and full backs in this side. TAA in particular was guilty of launching cross after cross into the box from 40 yards out. With hindsight, the better option was to probe for another angle.

We need better interplay down the flanks in these scenarios
 



sgs

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I've been critical of Henderson in the past and a bit in the follow up to this game to be honest. To some degree I should have been equally critical of Origi, Mane and in particular TAA.

The issue with Henderson is that when your in games and struggling to create opportunities there is a natural tendency to look at the midfield. I'm as guilty as the next person. In actual fact we should perhaps be looking at the forward line and full backs in this side. TAA in particular was guilty of launching cross after cross into the box from 40 yards out. With hindsight, the better option was to probe for another angle.

We need better interplay down the flanks in these scenarios

For me its far more to do with Klopp's tactics. He cannot seem to get over a conservative mindset at OT. I get the sense that even with United down two men, he'll still persist with a conservative approach, unless his hand is absolutely forced, as was the case later in the game...

Yesterday, Firmino was far more in the #10 role than high upfield...
 

rockafella

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Also Klopp tactics yesterday were old and dated. Origi on the left Mane on the right, when did this ever worked?. We missed Salah but instead of shuffling the team, why not be imaginative and use Trent as a right wing and Gomez at right back?, but Ox on the right from the start, do something different, but no same old same old, i know people will not like me but i had to say this.
So after a run of 17 league victories, with a European Cup sandwiched in there, the tactics are old and dated?

At what point, whilst we were winning every week, should Klopp have thought "hang on - this isn't working"?

Without a doubt completely changing for this game would've lead to questions as to why we decided to randomly change the system that works so well for us.
 

Red over the water

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They had at least seven men behind the ball all the time. It was real backs to the wall stuff from them. They played 3-4-1-2 and the two rows of 3 and 4 were predominantly there to defend, with intensity and in numbers. Then the idea was to try to get something on the counter, with the pace they have up front.

Sometimes the modest team with meagre ambitions has its day in the sun.

Enough has been said about the refereeing now. It was massively uneven. Sometimes it happens. The idea at that point is to make sure you do your job well enough that ultimately it doesn't matter and you get the win anyway. We were not good enough to do that on the day. I can't put the boot into our team, as we have been excellent for a long time. The midfield trio has been an important part of that run, and they are all good players, with Fabinho world class.

Even so, I would imagine that from this point forward, form and fitness permitting, we will start to see more of Ox and more of Keita. The possible weakness we have is against low block teams, and there are various ways to beat that - with our usual front three all fit and firing, we find a way through. But if that isn't clicking, you do need someone who can do something in the midfield, a little pass, something 'cute' and unexpected. I think Ox has this to a degree, though his game will be more about running through the lines with his power and pace, which is very effective.

But Keita really looks to have great vision to me. I am looking forward to Fabinho and Keita being established in the same midfield more often than not. We paid big money for the pair a while ago, and the former has cemented his spot, but for various reasons it hasn't quite happened for Naby yet. When it does - and we've had glimpses - the level of the team will kick on further. I think that's going to be something we will see as the season progresses.

I still think yesterday was a point gained, all things considered. They were like rabid dogs, with at least seven men behind the ball, and a favorable referee. They got their noses in front, we made a couple of changes (probably too late, which is a theme) but we were much stronger in the closing stages. We got back on terms and with a bit more time we would have ran out winners, but it wasn't to be.
 

mazpool

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So after a run of 17 league victories, with a European Cup sandwiched in there, the tactics are old and dated?

At what point, whilst we were winning every week, should Klopp have thought "hang on - this isn't working"?

Without a doubt completely changing for this game would've lead to questions as to why we decided to randomly change the system that works so well for us.
As far as I can remember, we did not play Origi on the left and Mane on the right in those 17 games you are talking about. And replacing Salah with Trent or Ox is not completely change tactics for this game, is it?