Post Match: Newcastle 2 Liverpool 2

Semmy

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Missed the end of the pre-match thread as it was early AM here. Did notice and wanted to point out one thing:

#LFC team v Newcastle: Mignolet, Johnson, Cissokho, Toure, Skrtel, Sakho, Henderson, Gerrard, Moses, Suarez, Sturridge

#LFC subs v Newcastle: Jones, Agger, Kelly, Flanagan, Alberto, Sterling, Allen.


Not including the 'tender...that is a HEAVY commitment to a defensive lineup if I've ever seen one...50% of your fielded players are defensive-line, and another 50% of your fielded subs.

I am not going to go digging through the past weeks to see if there is a pattern, I already suspect there is. Maybe it's a trend, maybe it's just due to the injuries/absences. But really, was there ever a chance of Flanagan actually playing? Thus, why not Ibe or another attacker?

IMO, I don't like the mentality it poses...especially when you have an attacking front line like Sturridge and Suarez. They need support/options.
 

redbj

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Clive said:
Having slept on it, the only thing that doesn't sit quite right with me is the loans of Suso and Borini, and I guess the related acquisitions of Alberto and Aspas. One of my pet hates is recent seasons is not having strike (ie striker or forward game breakers) options on the bench. Aspas is injured, so we are down to Sterling and Alberto being available on the bench. Given when we had, it was a shame Raheem didn't come on earlier.
This is one aspect that we could have managed better in the summer, and it's contrived to reducing our chances in games like this.
Agree.

But it's all fine lines and hindsight.

So many different things could ave panned out with the aspas transfer merry go round.

One thing, I, and quite a few others, seemed to rate borini below what is needed, if Rodgers brought in aspas because he genuinely believed it was an upgrade on Fabio then I'm not gonna slag him off because ( currently) it looks to ave backfired.

It's a cliche for good reason, but footballs a game of the finest of lines.
 

RedSeven

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Semmy said:
Missed the end of the pre-match thread as it was early AM here. Did notice and wanted to point out one thing:

#LFC team v Newcastle: Mignolet, Johnson, Cissokho, Toure, Skrtel, Sakho, Henderson, Gerrard, Moses, Suarez, Sturridge

#LFC subs v Newcastle: Jones, Agger, Kelly, Flanagan, Alberto, Sterling, Allen.


Not including the 'tender...that is a HEAVY commitment to a defensive lineup if I've ever seen one...50% of your fielded players are defensive-line, and another 50% of your fielded subs.

I am not going to go digging through the past weeks to see if there is a pattern, I already suspect there is. Maybe it's a trend, maybe it's just due to the injuries/absences. But really, was there ever a chance of Flanagan actually playing? Thus, why not Ibe or another attacker?

IMO, I don't like the mentality it poses...especially when you have an attacking front line like Sturridge and Suarez. They need support/options.
Who else,realistically, is there?
 

Semmy

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RedSeven said:
Who else,realistically, is there?
You're getting my point. with Lucas away, Aspas injured, Coutinho injured we have no depth in the squad.

But why call up Flanagan and keep stockpiling defence? Why not give Ibe/Ngoo/McLaughlin/Morgan a run?
 

sanjing07

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Here is my take:

Negatives:
The team's discipline on setpiece is still terrible. cissohko was clearly asleep for the second goal. I hope BR gave him some stern words, he certainly give that to Enrique after the soton game.

The bench shows a lack of depth in attack. As some bros rightfully pointed out, we have 3 defenders as sub.

Moses is a gd player, but he got to be better in decision making. He dribbles too much in the middle 3rd, which is dangerous when we lose the ball. He shld do these more in the final 3rd. Coutinho is better at these decision making.

Positives:
The character to come back is invaluable. Recalling the season we were 2nd, we fought back a lot of matches when we went behind. Yst, we got back twice. The reaction from the players is different from the last few seasons. So hopefully BR can keep up the 'we want wins' mentality. Hopefully this character serves us well.

Overall: let's face it, if we were told that we will be 3rd with 17 pts at the start of the season after 8 matches, I think majority of the fans will be happy. Just that with the brilliant start we had, expectations got higher.

Lastly, I hate internationals! Some players looked tired.
 

Semmy

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Just watching the 2nd time around, the system of 3 CB and 2 CM is confusing the players with their marks. So many times they are jumping from player to player switching off but the mark is has already floated away.

Also allowing too much space for players to carry the ball up the pitch, lack of communication between the CB's. Cabaye's goal was glaring for lack of pressure to the ball carrier, he picked up the ball at the halfway line. Only Ben Arfa ahead of him on the 3 CB and took 20yards for Sakho to come out and challenge him.

Time to revert back to a 4-back system, the current setup lacks organization

thought Johnson and Cissoko looked good on the wings, Moses made some good drives but he is a winger and it shows in his runs. Henderson disappeared in this game, time for him to return to the bench and bring in another CB with better reading of the play.
 

Semmy

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2nd ball is another gaffe due to no talk between CB. Kolo is trackink his mark back, Skrtel decides to step in to incoming ball and actually collides with Kolo/mark mid air completely missing the ball. Skips off Kolo's head onto Dummets foot. Aly guilty of not grabbing a shirt on the way by as well

for those who were asking about the lineup after Alberto sub, 4-4-2 with Alberto and Moses outside halves.

SaS not clicking at all this game up front
 

Semmy

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Spent a bit of time watching the center of the mid specifically. Hendo tries hard but lacks creativity on the ball in the last 30 yds of the pitch. Have hope for Alberto, Moses did okay as well from the outside. Wtf was the point of Sterling for Johnson...ineffective sub, IMO. SG looked gassed 60-75 min until possession slowed play down. Would rather have seen Alberto for Henderson in middle of pitch for creative spark from left side of center mid, Sterling push out to right half for Kolo and leave Johnson on at RB.

Game looked better 2nd time through, should have buried a 3rd goal for the Win
 

canucky008

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We need a proper marauding left back like a Marcrello or Jordi Alba type

We also need to stop paying this crappy 3 5 2 shit

Can we play 433

Also, maybe I'm the only one but it seems like we try to walk it in. I can't remember once anyone bombing down the wings and passing quickly around the middle. It's like we got time to just chill out , pull out the Cubans and watch life stroll by.

Oh! We drew, geez when did that happen?
 

gasband

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Result and performance not satisfactory but I do see a positive. Throughout the game, we had "loss" written all over for us. Especially when we let in the 2nd goal after they had gone down to 10 men, I already thought, well, here we go again. But contrary to previous seasons, our lads had the mentality to fight back to equalize. We definitely need to improve and be much better than this if we want to sustain a top 4 challenge but last night, we showed we do have fight but we better get all the "wrongs" right soon or else this good start will soon be a false dawn.
 

Bleeding Red

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canucky008 said:
We need a proper marauding left back like a Marcrello or Jordi Alba type

We also need to stop paying this crappy 3 5 2 shit

Can we play 433

Also, maybe I'm the only one but it seems like we try to walk it in. I can't remember once anyone bombing down the wings and passing quickly around the middle. It's like we got time to just chill out , pull out the Cubans and watch life stroll by.

Oh! We drew, geez when did that happen?
3-5-2 is Rodger's solution to Suarez's return. We spent forever discussing on these forums how he would accomodate him and Sturridge without subjecting either to defensive responsibility and marginalisation out on the wing. We want to have both up top, but Brendan clearly doesn't want to surrender midfield control by playing 4-4-2. My point is, I'm not sure there is a perfectly satisfactory solution to this conundrum. Sturridge and Suarez are our match-winners, and we need to get the best out of them (and to that end, Rodgers is succeeding brilliantly), and I feel that is possibly the most important thing. Even when we don't play well, like today, I always now feel that we are in the game no matter what because those two can pull something out of the bag and score hatfuls of goals. Defensively, it all looks a bit muddled right now, but I'd persist with the formation, and give the defense and midfield a chance to actually get used to it.

That said, they'd better get used to it quick, with the run of games we've got coming up.
 

kopite1982

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We are in a very poor run of form imo, since we have gone to 3-4-1-2 it simply has not worked. United away we lost, sunderland away we were shit, palace home we were abysmal second half, yesturday we were poor. Moses is not a number 10.

We need to go back to a diamond formation, 4-2-2-2 / 4-3-3 next week. We have been leaking goals since we have gone 3 at the back. We should go back to jonson toure agger enrique . 3 games 3 clean sheets.
 

canucky008

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3 5 2 requires a discipline whereby you rely on the two central defenders to pick up your man from the wings especially if they are cutting in

I'll admit that the formation did not contribute to either goals even though the argument that Cabaye should not have been able to walk in for so long and take the shot, but the formation point to not being able to be more dynamic going forward and the slow build up points to it

Suarez Stuuridge and let's say Moses as the front three interchanging is more frightful than 352
 

charleslee89

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TrueRed1990 said:
3-5-2 is Rodger's solution to Suarez's return. We spent forever discussing on these forums how he would accomodate him and Sturridge without subjecting either to defensive responsibility and marginalisation out on the wing. We want to have both up top, but Brendan clearly doesn't want to surrender midfield control by playing 4-4-2. My point is, I'm not sure there is a perfectly satisfactory solution to this conundrum. Sturridge and Suarez are our match-winners, and we need to get the best out of them (and to that end, Rodgers is succeeding brilliantly), and I feel that is possibly the most important thing. Even when we don't play well, like today, I always now feel that we are in the game no matter what because those two can pull something out of the bag and score hatfuls of goals. Defensively, it all looks a bit muddled right now, but I'd persist with the formation, and give the defense and midfield a chance to actually get used to it.

That said, they'd better get used to it quick, with the run of games we've got coming up.
You mean we actually had 5 people in the midfield? How come I didn't see that? all i saw was johnson and cissokho being the right and left back respectively that it looked like 5-3-2 at one time.... and not to mention as well the ocean between henderson & gerrard with the front three...
 

DeathOrGlory

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Bit of a meh result.

Any of one of the shots we had near the end, we would all be a whole lot happier. A lot of our games have been ones of fine margins.

Think we'll pick it up at home for West Brom, looking forward to that one.
 

Le_hunt

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Can't wait for Coutinho to be back. granted Moses did some decent moves to escape from defenders in the first half, but he'll be more suited on a wing.

scraping a draw from a 10-man newcastle with 3 at the back looks abysmal in itself. but as mentioned elswhere we'd have lost this game a year ago. and may I add that shape-wise, it was more 4-4-2ish than 3-5-2-ish, with Johnson clearly deployed as a winger, sometimes cutting inside (on his tame shot on Krul, noticeably). Kolo himself has tried the odd forward run, whereas on the other side Cissokho, albeit not as comfortable on the ball as Johnson or his challenger Enrique in the final third, has been useful (a good cross towards the end of the game, as I can recall).


speaking of Enrique, he's showed last season glimpses of ability high up the pitch, first when Brendan eased him back in the side as a winger, swapping places with Downing, with a goal against Wigan, and then later in the season back at his natural full-back berth with a goal + assist against Swans and and assist against Spurs.
that's precisely what we needed yesterday even if the game could've been won without him.

Sahko was partly to blame for both goals IMO, rather poor perfomance from him after his blinder against Palace. SAS vital for the sake of our side more than ever.
 

Red Armada

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Dane said:
This thread reminds me of when we drew 0-0 with West Ham in 2008 to go top of the league, and the team got booed off the park :rolleyes:
Not really comparable. Back then we had the best team in the league and we performed like it. Nowadays we flatter to deceive.

We haven't put together a single convincing performance all season long and the manager's choices and setup are hardly reassuring as well.

We need to get our act together, otherwise it won't be long before we fall out of contention.
 

sparra1100

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i dont no if its just me but suarez doesn,t look intrested to me ok he,s scored and made a few but doesnt look the same player as last yr or before his ban he,s not chasing nothing like he was,maybe the storys are true that he wants out and just biding his time
 

Dane

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verde13 said:
Not really comparable. Back then we had the best team in the league and we performed like it. Nowadays we flatter to deceive.

We haven't put together a single convincing performance all season long and the manager's choices and setup are hardly reassuring as well.

We need to get our act together, otherwise it won't be long before we fall out of contention.
I completely agree.
I'm just trying to be a bit more positive this season, but it's fucking hard work.
 

Row 33

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sparra1100 said:
i dont no if its just me but suarez doesn,t look intrested to me ok he,s scored and made a few but doesnt look the same player as last yr or before his ban he,s not chasing nothing like he was,maybe the storys are true that he wants out and just biding his time
Can't agree with that. Given the appalling service he and Sturridge got they both had to put a shift in. I'm surprised they worked so hard given the quality of football they had to put up with. We had two top strkers having to do their jobs and try and do those of a dysfunctional midfled. Most prima donna forwards would have given up.
 

artanisknarf

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I dont mind the 3-5-2
It will improve one Coutihno takes over the No. 10 role from Moses.
However, yesterday BR should have changed the formation the minute Newcastle went down to 10 men. We wasted time essentially until the first substitution.
Alberto improved us quite a bit.
 

shootscore

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All in all a fair result.
An away point, despite a disappointing performance is not all bad.
Roll on WBA and Arsenal.
 

Red Tiger

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We certainly missed Coutinho's creativity yesterday. Moses is not a CAM, can't wait for our Brazilian maestro to be back!
 

charleslee89

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sparra1100 said:
i dont no if its just me but suarez doesn,t look intrested to me ok he,s scored and made a few but doesnt look the same player as last yr or before his ban he,s not chasing nothing like he was,maybe the storys are true that he wants out and just biding his time
both sturridge and suarez actually had to fall back to support the non-existent centre midfield and you say suarez is not interested?
 

kwala

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Red Tiger said:
We certainly missed Coutinho's creativity yesterday. Moses is not a CAM, can't wait for our Brazilian maestro to be back!
Lets hope he hits the floor running!! Coutinho had been a bit off this season pre injury, certainly not performing at the level he was last season, maybe due to him being known in the league now, and teams playing closer attention to him, but it is certainly going to be a huge boost to have him back. Really hope we switch to 451/433 though, this 3412 is really not working for me. Suarez and Sturridge can just take turns working the channel one side(they pretty much do this anyway when attacking, just need to be aware when defending) and stick Moses out on the other. The Movement, pace and ability of Coutinho, Moses, Sturridge and Suarez should scare the hell out of most teams!
 

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sparra1100 said:
i dont no if its just me but suarez doesn,t look intrested to me ok he,s scored and made a few but doesnt look the same player as last yr or before his ban he,s not chasing nothing like he was,maybe the storys are true that he wants out and just biding his time
He was jet-lagged. As much as I don't buy the excuses for most other players about tiredness etc., with Luis, it's a bit different when having to come back from Uruguay and playing a match 48 hours later. In my eyes, he did exceptionally well considering where he was coming from. He was at 75%, and couldn't have been at more, but at least he exploited them fully.
 

gasband

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As I said, I am not interested in Suarez as a person anymore. But as a professional player, to say he is not interested is harsh, just his 3rd game back in the league and 3 goals and a couple of assists can hardly be of a disinterested player.
 

Semmy

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Our attitude towards the game changed once our formation switched to 4-4-2 and we looked much better for it. Simple solution for a simple problem. Sure, you end up having too much competition for the CB position...But suddenly you can slide Kolo into RB and if really want to get creative you can throw Johnson into RM. I think he'd be capable of it.

Toure/Johnson - Agger - Sakho - Cissoko/Enrique (lots of French on the back line)
Moses - SG - Lucas - Coutinho
------Sturridge - Suarez----------
 

LeoT

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No Men in the Box Redux said:
Boy am I glad Cissokho is only here for on loan. I don't think I've seen a more ineffectual fullback performance both defensively and offensively. Enrique is prone to occasionally switching off but he is generally solid defensively and is able to make up for mistakes with good strength and speed. Cissokho was just awful in defense today. Going forward contributed nothing at all bar one or two crosses when he had the entire freedom of the left-hand side in the second half.

Two points lost indeed. Should really have done better against 10 men. Thought Rodgers pulled the trigger on substitutions a little too late. Could have switched to a 4-4-2 far far earlier. We didn't need 3 centerbacks when there wasn't a single forward in Newcastle's team.
Yes I agree, but cos he's a new player everyone on hear will say he was brill in this game.
I hope he does better in his next game, cos I wasn't impressed.

Also, today's performance shows that its easy to bash Enrique, but the fact is we are a better team with him than without him.
 

SirBillShankly

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When we started the season we played with 4 at the back and we made a habit of keeping clean sheets, our first three games all featured DAgger, clean sheets every game. Is it time to now return to a 4-3-3? Want to see DAgger back sooner rather than later.