Post Match: Newcastle 2 Liverpool 2

Bleech

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Semmy said:
Our attitude towards the game changed once our formation switched to 4-4-2 and we looked much better for it. Simple solution for a simple problem. Sure, you end up having too much competition for the CB position...But suddenly you can slide Yaya into RB and if really want to get creative you can throw Johnson into RM. I think he'd be capable of it.

Toure/Johnson - Agger - Sakho - Cissoko/Enrique (lots of French on the back line)
Moses - SG - Lucas - Coutinho
------Sturridge - Suarez----------
Yes, I agree with you. I too have been considering the 4-4-2... I think it's worth a go. I think we can forget about Johnson at RM though... his attacking play is rubbish.
 

ILLOK

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rippedshorts said:
4-4-2

With Raheem and Moses on both wings.
And Coutinho?

I'd just go back to a 433, coutinho on the left and get Henderson/Allen in the middle with Gerrard and Lucas.

The 352 experiment has been interesting and I was a big advocate but I want to see us dominating games in the middle of the park again. Rafa spoiled us in that regard, I want us to go back to that.
 

Semmy

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leopoldfrank said:
Yes, I agree with you. I too have been considering the 4-4-2... I think it's worth a go. I think we can forget about Johnson at RM though... his attacking play is rubbish.
I think the team is better with him than without him. He didn't have a bad game yesterday considering he was gone for 3-4 weeks, that being said I'm pretty sure I saw him try to take a man on and tripped over the ball. ;) heh heh

rippedshorts said:
4-4-2

With Raheem and Moses on both wings.
Raheem needs to go back to youth squad. He was terrible yesterday, WTF was Rodgers thinking playing him at RWB? He's useless defensively, doesn't know how to switch off players or angle the ball carrier away from danger. I am not a fan until he matures and learns to read the game better, it's embarrassing. I really liked Cissokho's play yesterday, shame he's so one-footed but he put some SOLID crosses into the box yesterday. Had the forwards been playing on the last-man's shoulder it could have caused issues.

Thought it was hilarious when the commentator mentioned he was one-dimensional on the wing and wouldn't cut inside. Next time he had the ball, turned the defender towards the bye-line then cut inside. I laughed, timing was impeccable.

ILLOK said:
And Coutinho?

I'd just go back to a 433, coutinho on the left and get Henderson/Allen in the middle with Gerrard and Lucas.

The 352 experiment has been interesting and I was a big advocate but I want to see us dominating games in the middle of the park again. Rafa spoiled us in that regard, I want us to go back to that.
Ugh, not a fan of 4-3-3 and our personnel right now. Seriously, I'd like to see Lucas dropped for a game in favor of a 4-4-2 like so:

----------------Mignolet-------------------
Johnson - Agger - Sakho - Cissokho
Alberto - Henderson - SG - Moses
-------------------SaS--------------------

If it doesn't work, you still have the bodies for a 4-3-3....move Moses forward and Henderson plays deep in CDM. I really like the attacking potential of SG/Alberto behind SaS&M

Yeah, I just coined that term. SaS&M, like some kinky punishment for opposing defense. :) :ph34r:
 

LeoT

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Semmy said:
Our attitude towards the game changed once our formation switched to 4-4-2 and we looked much better for it. Simple solution for a simple problem. Sure, you end up having too much competition for the CB position...But suddenly you can slide Yaya into RB and if really want to get creative you can throw Johnson into RM. I think he'd be capable of it.

Toure/Johnson - Agger - Sakho - Cissoko/Enrique (lots of French on the back line)
Moses - SG - Lucas - Coutinho
------Sturridge - Suarez----------
Not sure we could sign Yaya, and if we did I'd want to play him in central midfield.

:)
 

Semmy

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LeoT said:
Not sure we could sign Yaya, and if we did I'd want to play him in central midfield.

:)
dammit.
 

Mr v

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How we are where we are in the league is a mystery to me. Forget formations and injuries and personnel, we have been dump. We have played well in several first halves and shown flashes in most of the games (apart from southampton and at mancs in the cup where we just shit throughout) but on the whole we have been the opposite of what i had expected from this season. We cannot keep playing the way we are.
 

LeoT

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kopite1982 said:
We are in a very poor run of form imo, since we have gone to 3-4-1-2 it simply has not worked. United away we lost, sunderland away we were shit, palace home we were abysmal second half, yesturday we were poor. Moses is not a number 10.

We need to go back to a diamond formation, 4-2-2-2 / 4-3-3 next week. We have been leaking goals since we have gone 3 at the back. We should go back to jonson toure agger enrique . 3 games 3 clean sheets.
I think we're in a poor run of form since Coutinho picked up a knock.

We missed Enrique yesterday, he just gives us more attacking intent and decent delivery on the left side of the pitch.
I must also say that we missed Aspas today, I would rather have brought him on for his clever movement in the tight space in and around the box.
Sterling's raw pace is no good unless there is space for him to run into. We needed someone clever not someone quick.
 

ILLOK

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Mr v said:
How we are where we are in the league is a mystery to me. Forget formations and injuries and personnel, we have been dump. We have played well in several first halves and shown flashes in most of the games (apart from southampton and at mancs in the cup where we just shit throughout) but on the whole we have been the opposite of what i had expected from this season. We cannot keep playing the way we are.
We've generally been very good in both boxes (apart from set pieces).

The rest of the pitch we have been mediocre.
 

Semmy

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ILLOK said:
We've generally been very good in both boxes (apart from set pieces).

The rest of the pitch we have been mediocre.
When you lack a transition game as we have for last few weeks, it becomes cumbersome to create chances when the opposition are able to set up shop and defend as a unit instead of being stretched.

We are already known as a team that lacks size in attack and don't play a lot of balls into the box for aerial challenge (set pieces aside). The lack of that dimension allows the oppo to play narrow in the middle of the pitch and give us the space on the wings to try and penetrate on the ground.

Had the defender not gotten a toe on the one good through ball played to Sturridge, would have been a different game.
 

lancashirelad

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Hope in your heart said:
He was jet-lagged. As much as I don't buy the excuses for most other players about tiredness etc., with Luis, it's a bit different when having to come back from Uruguay and playing a match 48 hours later. In my eyes, he did exceptionally well considering where he was coming from. He was at 75%, and couldn't have been at more, but at least he exploited them fully.
A 75% Luis is as good as any striker we've got
 

OOTer

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I think we played our best footie (last season) when Hendo started on the LW and swapped with Coutinho (playing behind Danny). This let Hendo work his socks off tracking back and when he moved inside it gave room for Enrique to bomb into. The interchange with those 3 was a delight.

I'm withholding opinion on Cissokho. Yesterday he covered Sakho really well once in the box which would have a certain chance on goal. And when he's past his man on the wing he's very hard to catch again. But I think Enrique offers more in confined spaces, is as much a beast in defensive one on ones and also has a great awareness for where Suarez is (see the shoulder goal vs Newcastle). I know people think his crossing is suspect but i think it has gotten better recently and folks seems to be going off his rep rather than what he's doing now.

Although I didn't see the 2nd half I was impressed that we managed to get a goal considering I expected them to shut up shop at 2-1 up with 10 men. And Suarez seemed as chuffed as anyone when he set up the equaliser.
 

Delusional geordie

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Well that went well (I don't expect you to agree!). Up to the 41st minute I had that very rare feeling you get as a toon fan: we are in charge and are going to rip this lot a new one (February against Chelsea being the last time this rare occurrence happened). Then it seemed to go all wrong with Mbiwa. But hey then we did something even rarer. We scored from a set piece! Sorry but you lot must be terrible at defending: we do not score from set pieces (well small caveat here, unless Cabaye knocks it straight in - but if it requires someone kicking it and expecting a team mate to do something we do not score from set pieces). We haven't scored a corner since Jackie Milburn was knocking them in. To be frank we would have more chance of scoring from a corner if we automatically gave it back as a goal kick and hoped our centre back could head it in from the half way line. So good to see us scoring from set piece. Also good to see us hold out for the draw, last season we would have collapsed. Well a moral victory against you lot which should have been retribution for the 6. Ah well solace can be hopefully be found by turning off the lights at the stadium of sh*te next week. PS before your sterling captain knocked in his well deserved 100th goal there was a mini explosion in your end with police running from all corners. Anyone shed any light? Presume it was a malfunctioning flare.
 

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Delusional geordie said:
(...) But hey then we did something even rarer. We scored from a set piece! Sorry but you lot must be terrible at defending: we do not score from set pieces (...)
Yup, we are terrible at defending on set pieces. This goes on since years, and is now a recurring factor under BR.
 

OOTer

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Also terrible at scoring them. There was a game last season or the one before where we scored 2 goals from 2 successive corners. I was so excited I had a sex wee in my pants.
 

Bleeding Red

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verde13 said:
Not really comparable. Back then we had the best team in the league and we performed like it. Nowadays we flatter to deceive.

We haven't put together a single convincing performance all season long and the manager's choices and setup are hardly reassuring as well.

We need to get our act together, otherwise it won't be long before we fall out of contention.
We undoubtedly had a better team then than we do now, but I still remember a number of fairly average performances, even back then. The seven draws at Anfield and losing at an eventually relegated Middlesbrough prove that. However, just like now, even when we weren't great, we always had a chance because of the individual attacking quality we had at the time, and that team had some serious resilience to boot (came from behind more than 10 times to win in all competitions I think). For Suarez and Sturridge now, read Gerrard and Torres both in their absolute prime at the time. Safe to say that those two picking up niggles was our eventual downfall in the title chase. And make no mistake, we need to keep SAS fit to have any chance of making the top four.
 

bes

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Alberto/Gerrard are the last people who should be getting flack about last game. How come nobody is pointing out how Sturridge had numerous chances but couldn't convert or how Suarez/Cissohko kept giving the ball away?

Thought Skrtel did well, he should have a spot next week vs West Brom. I think it's time to introduce Agger back into the first team also. Sakho had a bad game and that set piece defending was awful, maybe the bench will motivate him but for now Agger is our best CB. Cissohko... Think it was obvious that Enrique is still the best LB on this team by a country mile. Only thing Cissohko can do better is use his pace to beat defenders. He is fit and when I saw him unable to handle a ball in open play I couldn't help but laugh and think "this was the guy that was suppose to displace Enrique" Ha. Reason why Sterling came on is because Glen isn't 100%, and we have to get Sterling some game time. Some of wingers like Valencia can be deputized @ RB, we need more players like that who can fill in other spots (like Johnson can play Winger/RB/LB). Giving him little time there especially when we were passing against a parked bus is fine.
Next week vs West Brom

Mignolet
Johnson Skrtel Agger Enrique
Lucas Gerrard Hendo
Coutinho
Suarez/Sturridge

^^ Strongest squad. Sub Alberto/Sterling in for Coutinho/Johnson. Maybe give Allen a shot depending how Lucas/Hendo/gerrard
 

spizfromoz

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bes said:
Mignolet
Johnson Skrtel Agger Enrique
Lucas Gerrard Hendo
Coutinho
Suarez/Sturridge
Agree, we need a 3 man midfield. We've looked better with Henderson working in the midfield. 2 man midfield just scares me.
 

bes

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I see no reason why that cant be considered a 4 man. Personally I expect Coutinho to back track, you see Sturridge tracking back all the way to Right back and even Suarez sneaks into our own half. An extra man does wonders and little things like that turn games into our favor. If he gets tired like I said put in Alberto and make sure hes out there giving 110%
 

WellRedKev

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Without being too downbeat we were very poor. How we didn't beat ten man Newcastle I will never know.

Tempo, accuracy of passing, just everything was well below par. International break is a factor but to be honest its been like that ebfore the break too. performance wise we haven't got started at all. Hopefully it kicks in sooner rather than later.

For me Sturridge should have been taken off at half time. Changes should have been made earlier. Alberto picked a couple of very good passes out in the short time he was on. Sturridge was a shadow of the player he was in recent weeks.

We have been quite poor in the majority of games now. Our good start is looking under threat to becoming averge enough especially with massive games hoovering over us. A win at West Brom is vital but for me so was Newcastle going into the big fixtures away to the big clubs. if we can shock City or Arsenal away from home we will be ok. But we need to avoid defeat by them at all costs now.
 

Verbal80

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Though a draw is not the end of the world, only a good result against West Brom will salvage it as a point gained. The reality is 50mins against 10 men should numerically work in our favour.

But psychology plays a massive part.......

We went in at half time confident that we'd win. All we had to do was be patient and take our opportunities. We know Newcaslte are gonna defend, numerical advantage.

So what happened, complacent defending for a set pieces changes that psychology of the game. Newcastle have something to defend even more now, but we have to get our skates on.

We looked so flat footed at times it was like watching a Mexican standoff. No one was offering much movement, no one was calling for the ball. When the opposition are sitting like that you have to have runs from deep being made. There's not enough space behind to stay on the shoulders of the defenders.

Moses isn't a no.10 as someone quite rightly mentioned. He's a winger, he needs space to run into and drag defenders out of position. In the middle you need different attributes. Suarez and Sturridge didn't do much, this is partly down to Moses and party down do general level of play. Neither playing that well. Henderson and Gerrard didn't help create anything with the latter fading after 55min. Cissokho and Johnson didn't provide much going forward, though Johnson had a few moments in good positions. Both are back from injury mind and both being their first game back. Cissokho was also at fault for their second with Sakho shouldering a little blame.

All in all disappointed. I think Lucas was a big miss. His work isn't always noticeable but it allows others to do their thing more freely. I think this could be a time for Allen to shine.
 

SoueysTash

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Definitely a game we should have won based on them getting a man sent off however before that we didn't have much control. I'm not down about it, wed have lost it last year even if they had 10 men. The league is all about adding points, we added to our total and I expect us to beat west brom...
 

WellRedKev

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SoueysTash said:
Definitely a game we should have won based on them getting a man sent off however before that we didn't have much control. I'm not down about it, wed have lost it last year even if they had 10 men. The league is all about adding points, we added to our total and I expect us to beat west brom...
We beat them 6-0 last season!! Against 11!
 

SoueysTash

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WellRedKev said:
We beat them 6-0 last season!! Against 11!
And we had 10 less points this time last season (or something similar...) Can't cite that as a reason we should be winning
 

WellRedKev

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SoueysTash said:
And we had 10 less points this time last season (or something similar...) Can't cite that as a reason we should be winning
No your right ya couldn't. But you couldn't say last season we would have got beaten either.
Massive improvement needed as Dane says. Just waiting for it all to click and some team get a serious hiding. Hope its Saturday and confidence is high going into tough away fixtures.
 

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SoueysTash said:
And we had 10 less points this time last season (or something similar...) Can't cite that as a reason we should be winning
10 points is three wins and a draw. At this point of the season, we had already played Man City, Arsenal and the red mancs (under Red Nose). That's three top teams. Now, we still are to meet one of them.

I think the next match against WBA (who did the double over us last term) and our trip to the Emirates will define in a more realistic way where we are right now.

Hopefully we have preserved ourselves the best for these two fixtures, as we need to improve massively to get anything out of them.
 

Dane

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As nice as it is to be here, we're in a false position right now, and people who are getting carried away with it now should bear that in mind when things go downhill and they start venting off about how we're no longer in the top 4.
 

rupzzz

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We need to stop leaking the goals - that's the main issue. We scored two away from home, that should be enough to win three points every time.

Cabaye's goal was a cracker, but he shouldn't have been allowed that much space. I guess the defenders just weren't expecting him to hit that. But it's one of those, where if a CB had charged out to meet Cabaye and got skinned then we'd have said "stand back, he won't score from there".

Set pieces are the main issue still. How Sakho and Cissokho let Dummet round the back was just stupidity. Nine times out of 10 that ball goes over the two and out to touch. But you can't rely on odds like that. Deal with it or the men in the box, ideally both.

A win at Anfield against West Brom is a must now. Don't want to be going to the Emirates having dropped points in two games on the bounce.

With us only playing the the premier league I expect us to be able to win games like against Newcastle and West Brom.

I'm still relatively happy with out position at present. The Arsenal game will give us a real indication of if things are going the right way.
 

grooveshark

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bes said:
Alberto/Gerrard are the last people who should be getting flack about last game. How come nobody is pointing out how Sturridge had numerous chances but couldn't convert or how Suarez/Cissohko kept giving the ball away?

Thought Skrtel did well, he should have a spot next week vs West Brom. I think it's time to introduce Agger back into the first team also. Sakho had a bad game and that set piece defending was awful, maybe the bench will motivate him but for now Agger is our best CB. Cissohko... Think it was obvious that Enrique is still the best LB on this team by a country mile. Only thing Cissohko can do better is use his pace to beat defenders. He is fit and when I saw him unable to handle a ball in open play I couldn't help but laugh and think "this was the guy that was suppose to displace Enrique" Ha. Reason why Sterling came on is because Glen isn't 100%, and we have to get Sterling some game time. Some of wingers like Valencia can be deputized @ RB, we need more players like that who can fill in other spots (like Johnson can play Winger/RB/LB). Giving him little time there especially when we were passing against a parked bus is fine.
Next week vs West Brom

Mignolet
Johnson Skrtel Agger Enrique
Lucas Gerrard Hendo
Coutinho
Suarez/Sturridge

^^ Strongest squad. Sub Alberto/Sterling in for Coutinho/Johnson. Maybe give Allen a shot depending how Lucas/Hendo/gerrard
The one manager that has successfully used the diamond was Ancelotti at Milan. Very few other teams have used it because of how difficult it is a formation to balance out.

In his Milan team, he had Gattuso as a DM with an engine like no other, Pirlo pulling the strings, Kaka and Seerdorf. Gattuso was a world class DM, Pirlo was a borderline world class if not world class CM, Kaka was a world player of the year, Seerdorf though on the decline was still a fantastic player. Three of those players could create, Kaka and Seerdorf could take on a man.

I fot one dont advocate for it, the same manager tried it with Chelsea where he had limited success with it. At Milan, Gattuso could buy the defense time when they lost the ball, and the same happened last year at PSG with Matuidi.
It is also a possession based system that encourages for as many people in the opposition third as possible, Milan always had fullbacks going forward, same as Chelsea and a DM who could flat out run and tackle.

Hereon, BR doesnt have the players to pull it off, and when the team loses the ball, it would be a shambles. Go back to 4-2-3-1, stick with the idea he had with Suarez off the wing.
No team has three or 4 formations going into a season, most stick to one regardless of personel or injuries