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Post Match: Palace v Liverpool (EPL 23/11/19 3pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 5 4.6%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 2 1.8%
  • Lovren

    Votes: 18 16.5%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 51 46.8%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 4 3.7%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 14 12.8%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 3 2.8%
  • Henderson [off 79']

    Votes: 11 10.1%
  • Oxlade-Chamberlain [off 64']

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Firmino [GOAL 86', off 89']

    Votes: 36 33.0%
  • Mane [GOAL 49']

    Votes: 55 50.5%
  • Origi [on 64']

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Milner [on 79']

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gomez [on 89']

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Total voters
    109
  • Poll closed .

koptician

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If there was midfielder with the energy and industry of Wijnaldum, the diligence and intelligence of Henderson, and the creativity and vision of Coutinho, he is basically the best player in the world. I don’t think he exists.
Stevie G had most of those attributes except positional discipline. Imagine a 26 year old Gerrard in this midfield with two years LFC Klopp coaching bedded in....ohhh!!!
 


koptician

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Personally, I would go for the speed merchant Traore at Wolves. That lad's got speed to burn, can get round the back of defenders, and can cross the ball as well as putting a shot on goal. And I think we could get him a whole lot cheaper than Zaha.
And also built like a TANK and can now follow a defensive duty if needs as demonstrated against City
 

jaffod

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Stephen Warnock at it again on Ref Watch on SSN. Wasn't a foul on Lovren and he 'bought it' apparently. How you buy a foul when you've been shoved in the back is beyond me.
Same the other week after the Abu Dhabi game. Trying too hard to sound impartial but coming across as a bad tit.
 

koptician

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Stephen Warnock at it again on Ref Watch on SSN. Wasn't a foul on Lovren and he 'bought it' apparently. How you buy a foul when you've been shoved in the back is beyond me.
Same the other week after the Abu Dhabi game. Trying too hard to sound impartial but coming across as a bad tit.
Ffs he wants to be the new Lawro does he
 



Hope in your heart

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If there was midfielder with the energy and industry of Wijnaldum, the diligence and intelligence of Henderson, and the creativity and vision of Coutinho, he is basically the best player in the world. I don’t think he exists.
Gerrard was such a player. Maybe we'll pull a new one out of our academy, who knows... :giggle:
 

Red over the water

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Trent played Zaha very well. Defensively he was as good as any fullback I can think of, given the assignment of facing a fired up Zaha, who wanted to show what he could do to catch the eye of a bigger club. Trent’s distribution wasn’t up to par, so overall his game was a bit meh, but he did his defensive job, which is great for a player who is supposed to have that as an Achilles heel.

Zaha - good player, but I wouldn’t go near, unless his contract was winding down and there was a Shaqiri-like bargain to be had. Crystal Palace would want a king’s ransom, and the end product just isn’t there, in either goals or assists. Granted, both those stats would improve if he came to Liverpool, but this is a player who is 27 years old, and should be in his peak years now. If this is about as good as it gets, it’s not good enough for us.

Form after international breaks - we still grind out a fair amount of wins, which is more to do with our overall quality and, especially, mentality. The performance level is usually iffy, which is to be expected.

We are sitting proud at the top of that league. Man City are busting their chops to not see the gap widen. Tight win over Chelsea for them, but they have another couple of tricky games where they could drop points coming up.

Onwards and upwards for us. Tough game against Napoli coming up, but hopefully we get what we need and can rotate a bit against Salzburg.
 

Hope in your heart

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Am I the only one who thought Trent played Zaha quite well? He beat him once or twice but we are talking about a guy who is strong, super quick and probably the best dribbler in the league - for most part Trent stood up to the challenge and managed to get a foot in or force him to run around.

I feel like the narrative of "Zaha abused TAA" was written before the game kicked off.

I do still think signing Zaha would be a great move for us also.

Edit: Just looked back one page and realised I am not the only person to think this. I will climb down from my horse...
Yeah, he wasn't bad against Zaha defensively, and had him in check most of the times. Most of his errors (and why I think he had a bad game) came from giving the ball needlessly away when in possession, or finding himself in no-man's land at times (i.e. on Zaha's great chance for the 2-2 towards the end).

Nothing to worry about, he's a young lad and still learning, while Zaha is a tough customer indeed.
 



Billy Biskix

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Stephen Warnock at it again on Ref Watch on SSN. Wasn't a foul on Lovren and he 'bought it' apparently. How you buy a foul when you've been shoved in the back is beyond me.
Same the other week after the Abu Dhabi game. Trying too hard to sound impartial but coming across as a bad tit.
Hodgson was fine about it. Said it was a foul. There is no need for anyone to get outraged about it on his behalf although I see it's not stopping some people. Perfectly good decision and exactly how VAR should be used. Although I still hate it.
 

Dutch

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Trent played Zaha very well. Defensively he was as good as any fullback I can think of, given the assignment of facing a fired up Zaha, who wanted to show what he could do to catch the eye of a bigger club. Trent’s distribution wasn’t up to par, so overall his game was a bit meh, but he did his defensive job, which is great for a player who is supposed to have that as an Achilles heel.
Did not think he played Zaha very well, he lost him when he scored and made a stupid foul with a push in the back of Zaha who was on the sideline with his back to the goal going nowhere. The freekick that came from it became a goal that was disallowed by the VAR.
 



Red over the water

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Did not think he played Zaha very well, he lost him when he scored and made a stupid foul with a push in the back of Zaha who was on the sideline with his back to the goal going nowhere. The freekick that came from it became a goal that was disallowed by the VAR.
I agree there were a couple of moments, but overall my view is Trent did well defensively.

The push was very soft - fullbacks don't want the attacker to turn and face them, especially if they have the dribbling and pace of Zaha, but Zaha put the breaks on, Trent went into the back of him, and from minor contact the attacker won the free kick.

When he lost Zaha up the pitch (the one that led to the goal) it wasn't directly Trent's error, it was more a catalog of a few things for me, including a lucky ricochet in Zaha's favor. But that is exactly the sort of situation that can happen if we play our fullbacks high up the pitch, which we choose to do, with the advantages - due to the assists and attacking level of our fullbacks - significantly outweighing the disadvantages.

Still, if you look at all the incidents closely, I agree with the two you identified as the ones where arguably Trent could have been better, but overall I thought he played Zaha very well, defensively. Mind you, Trent's distribution was some way below his normal excellent level.
 

Wilkored08

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And Zaha always has that pained look on his face....especially when looking at the ref for free kicks and pens....and he falls down too easy...good feet, but CPFC would never let him go.
Stephen Warnock at it again on Ref Watch on SSN. Wasn't a foul on Lovren and he 'bought it' apparently. How you buy a foul when you've been shoved in the back is beyond me.
Same the other week after the Abu Dhabi game. Trying too hard to sound impartial but coming across as a bad tit.
And they never mentioned the 'standing on the foot', which adds to the foul.
 



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Would be like going back to the Coutinho days. Meets all the points Mascot made but completely disregards defensive work and how that lack of defence would suit us (or not).
De Bruyne has never struck me as a luxury player or one to shirk the hard work or being less than effective in what was required of him in a defensive capacity. I don't think the sun shines out of Guardiola's arse but he is a great manager and would never tolerate a player who could not put in the effort required. This kind of argument harks back to the days past when used to think that we were actually okay in a position and that improvement we could make was minimal and then VVD and Allison came in and we all went 'Oh my'. I am pretty sure that if we do get in a player like Havertz, for example, we will be going 'Oh My' again.
 

Gone Kloppo

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De Bruyne has never struck me as a luxury player or one to shirk the hard work or being less than effective in what was required of him in a defensive capacity. I don't think the sun shines out of Guardiola's arse but he is a great manager and would never tolerate a player who could not put in the effort required. This kind of argument harks back to the days past when used to think that we were actually okay in a position and that improvement we could make was minimal and then VVD and Allison came in and we all went 'Oh my'. I am pretty sure that if we do get in a player like Havertz, for example, we will be going 'Oh My' again.
Pep doesn't value defensive work by his forwards anywhere near as much as Klopp. And none of his players value that defensive work as much as any of our players. And it shows in the goals conceded stat between us and City. I recall so many people on here screaming about how we werent going to win anything while we conceded bucketloads. Well we've solved that issue but somehow its the players' fault that they have been asked to be more conservative to help our results. And playing a more controlled, albeit low scoring game = more wins and draws and less losses. If you think you can plonk a KDB into this team, as good as he is in an attacking sense, and better in an attacking sense than he is over our CMs, without it having an effect on our goals conceded, then you aren't paying much attention. We have an extremely good balance within the team. I'm not sure how much it can be improved on at this point in time.

The argument of a KDB over a Henderson/Gini is the same argument you can have over a Bobby/Aguero. Bobby every time. And Klopp would agree.

Also, I don't think many disagreed that guys like Lovren and Karius/Migs couldnt be improved on. But some people take exception to constant attacks on current players and will defend them against those types of fans. Especially when it ventured beyond their abilities as a player and was more personal.
 

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Pep doesn't value defensive work by his forwards anywhere near as much as Klopp. And none of his players value that defensive work as much as any of our players. And it shows in the goals conceded stat between us and City. I recall so many people on here screaming about how we werent going to win anything while we conceded bucketloads. Well we've solved that issue but somehow its the players' fault that they have been asked to be more conservative to help our results. And playing a more controlled, albeit low scoring game = more wins and draws and less losses. If you think you can plonk a KDB into this team, as good as he is in an attacking sense, and better in an attacking sense than he is over our CMs, without it having an effect on our goals conceded, then you aren't paying much attention

The argument of a KDB over a Henderson/Gini is the same argument you can have over a Bobby/Aguero. Bobby every time. And Klopp would agree.
That is simply your opinion and is based on different coaching methods by two different managers. No two managers are ever going to be exactly the same in their philosophies and thus what a player is asked to do under one is unlikely to be the same as what they are asked to do under another however that is not to say that they cannot do it. Wijnaldum played a completely different role in his teams prior to us and yet is doing the job that he is being asked to do extremely well.

I am paying quite enough attention, thanks for the concern. I suggest you perhaps consider that players, especially intelligent, hardworking and skilful ones, can adapt and adjust accordingly to the needs of the team and the manager. As usual, there seems to be quite a binary argument taking place. The results are great, nobody is saying get rid of the midfielders we have but just that a player in the mould of De Bruyne would add to what we already have and take us up yet another level. I truly cannot understand why people are against it. Baffling.
 

Mascot88

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The results are great, nobody is saying get rid of the midfielders we have but just that a player in the mould of De Bruyne would add to what we already have and take us up yet another level. I truly cannot understand why people are against it. Baffling.
Because it is nowhere near as simple as that.

Even if you think De Bruyne is capable of the defensive shift that Hendo, Gini and Milner put in, you still wouldn’t get the attacking output from him if he is constantly covering his full backs forays forward, and his Centre Forward target is, more often than not, in midfield harrying opponents.

If you want to drop De Bruyne into the team then, in my opinion, you’re also looking at a more traditional centre forward and more conservative full backs to get the most out of him.

So the question becomes, if what we have now is working, why change it to that extent? If we have money to spend and want to improve the squad I would sooner look at cover for Salah and Mane, maybe do something to lessen the burden on Robbo and Trent, and persevere with integrating Keita and Ox when we want a bit more attacking thrust from midfield.
 

Abdel

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Our CM cover the space left by the forwards who presses centrally
Actually both Gini and Hendo are often very high on the pitch to press the opposition fullbacks . and this is why we play with a very high line so we can still stay compact
Our fullbacks deal with the opposition alone or get some covers from the CB or Fabinho

The reason why our team do more defensive or hardwork than City is because we give away more of the possession . either because we have less technicality to deal with the press in tight space or the players are giving instructions to be more direct .
The truth maybe in both .
 



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Because it is nowhere near as simple as that.

Even if you think De Bruyne is capable of the defensive shift that Hendo, Gini and Milner put in, you still wouldn’t get the attacking output from him if he is constantly covering his full backs forays forward, and his Centre Forward target is, more often than not, in midfield harrying opponents.

If you want to drop De Bruyne into the team then, in my opinion, you’re also looking at a more traditional centre forward and more conservative full backs to get the most out of him.

So the question becomes, if what we have now is working, why change it to that extent? If we have money to spend and want to improve the squad I would sooner look at cover for Salah and Mane, maybe do something to lessen the burden on Robbo and Trent, and persevere with integrating Keita and Ox when we want a bit more attacking thrust from midfield.
This is purely a matter of opinion and mine differs to yours here. Yes, the CM three put in a major shift which is really noticeable like Henderson doubling up to help Trent against Zaha on numerous occasions on Saturday. But as you say, its nowhere as simple to suggest we would immediately lose anything that we currently have by not having Henderson, Gini or Milner in the team. It is highly, highly possible to have the best of both here. Gini and Henderson do get up the pitch and perform adequately in general, stellar on occasion and abysmal on occasion. There is no reason to believe that our entire style would change by getting the likes of Havertz, who is imho De Bruyne light at this stage in career.

If you think that what we have is the be all and end all and that no improvement can be made and that this should be our midfield go to for the foreseeable future then that's great and we will probably continue performing to an brilliantly high level which is awesome but I believe we have the chance of a once in generation team that could go down as one of the all time greats by acting while we have the stellar talent in the team already.
 

Gone Kloppo

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This is purely a matter of opinion and mine differs to yours here. Yes, the CM three put in a major shift which is really noticeable like Henderson doubling up to help Trent against Zaha on numerous occasions on Saturday. But as you say, its nowhere as simple to suggest we would immediately lose anything that we currently have by not having Henderson, Gini or Milner in the team. It is highly, highly possible to have the best of both here. Gini and Henderson do get up the pitch and perform adequately in general, stellar on occasion and abysmal on occasion. There is no reason to believe that our entire style would change by getting the likes of Havertz, who is imho De Bruyne light at this stage in career.

If you think that what we have is the be all and end all and that no improvement can be made and that this should be our midfield go to for the foreseeable future then that's great and we will probably continue performing to an brilliantly high level which is awesome but I believe we have the chance of a once in generation team that could go down as one of the all time greats by acting while we have the stellar talent in the team already.
Naby Keita. Ox. I don't see either of these two attacking midfielders as replaceable. And given the lack of game time for both (yes, injuries) I couldn't imagine the purpose of buying a third. A 17yo for the future? Certainly, as imo we are quite light here in the academy. But said player would need to understand they are up to 5 years away from getting a look in at the firsts.

Also, your line about "nothing to suggest we'd lose anything by dropping KDB in" could just as easily be "gain anything". We have no idea if he'd immediately be a positive or a negative. This is nothing like the obvious gaping hole we had in central defence or between the posts that were instant hits. It would be a slow process of integration. Ask Keita.
 

Prolix

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Who are these conservative fullbacks that Guardiola uses at City to cover for De Bruyne in midfield? :unsure: