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Post Match: Palace v Liverpool (EPL 23/11/19 3pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 5 4.6%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 2 1.8%
  • Lovren

    Votes: 18 16.5%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 51 46.8%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 4 3.7%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 14 12.8%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 3 2.8%
  • Henderson [off 79']

    Votes: 11 10.1%
  • Oxlade-Chamberlain [off 64']

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Firmino [GOAL 86', off 89']

    Votes: 36 33.0%
  • Mane [GOAL 49']

    Votes: 55 50.5%
  • Origi [on 64']

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Milner [on 79']

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gomez [on 89']

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Total voters
    109
  • Poll closed .

koptician

We'll go again!
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
2,829
De Bruyne has never struck me as a luxury player or one to shirk the hard work or being less than effective in what was required of him in a defensive capacity. I don't think the sun shines out of Guardiola's arse but he is a great manager and would never tolerate a player who could not put in the effort required. This kind of argument harks back to the days past when used to think that we were actually okay in a position and that improvement we could make was minimal and then VVD and Allison came in and we all went 'Oh my'. I am pretty sure that if we do get in a player like Havertz, for example, we will be going 'Oh My' again.
Ummm...I get the general point you're making mate but VVD supplanted a previously error-prone Lovren and Allison replaced the fairly regularly error-prone duo of Karius and Mignolet. The chasm in quality is huge!!
 


Noo Noo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
3,771
I think we must also remember that we had a serious look at a certain Fekir (is that name allowed on here) so Klopp must have had something in mind for the midfield somewhere along the line. We also have Shaqiri who I'm certain would have played more if the injuries.

There's a plan in there somewhere but I'll admit I haven't the foggiest what it could be. Perhaps something along the lines of the 4-4-2 diamond that we did see with Coutinho from time to time
 

[email protected]

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
3,216
Ummm...I get the general point you're making mate but VVD supplanted a previously error-prone Lovren and Allison replaced the fairly regularly error-prone duo of Karius and Mignolet. The chasm in quality is huge!!
Absolutely massive chasm, and that is the point I am making. There wasn't even consensus that VVD and Allison were worth their fees when they signed and while it was generally accepted they would make a difference, it was not thought it would be such an absolute in your face visit from planet goalkeeper as someone put it. I reckon that is pretty much what will happen if and when we get a midfielder of the ilk I have been referring to.
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
13,970
I think we must also remember that we had a serious look at a certain Fekir (is that name allowed on here) so Klopp must have had something in mind for the midfield somewhere along the line.
Not necessarily. Fekir isn't a midfielder. Sure, you could shoe horn him into a midfield role, as he's done on occasion for Lyon, and maybe coach him up. But he has played almost his entire career as a forward so I think the question you are trying to solve is not a real one.
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
13,970
This is purely a matter of opinion and mine differs to yours here. Yes, the CM three put in a major shift which is really noticeable like Henderson doubling up to help Trent against Zaha on numerous occasions on Saturday. But as you say, its nowhere as simple to suggest we would immediately lose anything that we currently have by not having Henderson, Gini or Milner in the team. It is highly, highly possible to have the best of both here. Gini and Henderson do get up the pitch and perform adequately in general, stellar on occasion and abysmal on occasion. There is no reason to believe that our entire style would change by getting the likes of Havertz, who is imho De Bruyne light at this stage in career.

If you think that what we have is the be all and end all and that no improvement can be made and that this should be our midfield go to for the foreseeable future then that's great and we will probably continue performing to an brilliantly high level which is awesome but I believe we have the chance of a once in generation team that could go down as one of the all time greats by acting while we have the stellar talent in the team already.
I understand the point, especially as it relates to KdB's work rate. However, we do also have to be realistic. Look at Nederlands Gini vs Liverpool Gini. The difference in attacking output is surely due to the difference in positional responsibility and work rate that is required. Another key example is Torres. For as much as we hail the attacking benefit we get from the high work rate of our 3 forwards, Torres barely contributed at all on that side of the ball in his time with us. And that was by design and under direction from Rafa. It is no coincidence that this period was the only point in his life where his perceived talent matched his goal output.

You simply cannot drop a player into a different side with a different system and give him different responsibilities and expect him to be able to bring all the same positive contributions as you're used to seeing him from. Is there a trade off worth trying - 20% more responsibility for 20% less production? I don't know. Its an interesting question, but there is always a reaction/response.
 



Noo Noo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
3,771
Not necessarily. Fekir isn't a midfielder. Sure, you could shoe horn him into a midfield role, as he's done on occasion for Lyon, and maybe coach him up. But he has played almost his entire career as a forward so I think the question you are trying to solve is not a real one.
Fair point but I still maintain that Klopp has created something unique in football terms which has given rise to a number of conundrums about recruitment going forward. Still a nice position to be in though
 

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,155
This is purely a matter of opinion and mine differs to yours here. Yes, the CM three put in a major shift which is really noticeable like Henderson doubling up to help Trent against Zaha on numerous occasions on Saturday. But as you say, its nowhere as simple to suggest we would immediately lose anything that we currently have by not having Henderson, Gini or Milner in the team. It is highly, highly possible to have the best of both here. Gini and Henderson do get up the pitch and perform adequately in general, stellar on occasion and abysmal on occasion. There is no reason to believe that our entire style would change by getting the likes of Havertz, who is imho De Bruyne light at this stage in career.

If you think that what we have is the be all and end all and that no improvement can be made and that this should be our midfield go to for the foreseeable future then that's great and we will probably continue performing to an brilliantly high level which is awesome but I believe we have the chance of a once in generation team that could go down as one of the all time greats by acting while we have the stellar talent in the team already.
Henderson is essential imo. The number of times he positions to mark 3 players is hallucinating. I have never see a player do this so often.
Anyone who thinks you can just drop Hendo and put KDB in his place has got to be mad. :)