POST MATCH: Red Star v Liverpool (UCL 6/11/18 5.55pm)

Man of the Match


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Red Eyes

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Our last 9 games in all competitions = W 3, D 3, L 3. Two of the wins were against Cardiff and Huddersfield. I'm afraid this isn't a one off bad result.....something needs putting right and quickly
 

macca1970

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We played crap. No doubts about that. Red Star totally deserved it with their commitment, which we lacked.

I agree with Klopp that we have to fight in the next two games to qualify. All four teams can qualify with two games to go. This is what top level football is all about.

The next game away is huge. With all teams posible to get through, there will be difficult games for everyone.
 

Chung

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WTF is going on?? Where's the press? Why change Bobby to play a 10 to accmmodate Mo when playing as a 9 Mo scored more? Why are we looking to shape up defensively after seeing how good the GomezDijk pairing is? Why do they as CB's need to be rested? Why was Llanna playing, seems like that last injury has put an end to his top flight with a title challenging team career? Why not start with your best team, bang in a few goals, then rotate? What happened to our squad depth for Origi to come on? Did Origi play in order to show that he was a $25m striker in the lead up to the transfer window? Did Matip only look good previously because he was a free transfer? Are we starting to see the effects of Lijnders as assistant this season?
 

santana

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next game is fulham which is not a strong team so it is time to test 343 because ( gomez vvd lovren/robertson ) more than enough in defenders line , and you can control medfield with ( shaqiri/milner kieta gini fabinho ) so it is time to test new play style !
 

indianscouser

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Can't believe anyone on here in any way advocates Lallana as good enough.

He's literally a one trick pony. He has one trick and does it once a match.

People really think he's an acceptable player to be playing in lieu of Oxlade or Coutinho?

It was a terrible mistake by Klopp to play him in a crucial match. He let his opponents dictate he leave a player out who was man of the match two weeks ago and who would have been pumped.
I won't blame klopp. Because that's where your reserves and backup players need to step in.
It's evident that lallana, moreno, matip needs to be shipped.
Id keep sturridge because as a super sub he can have an impact.
We miss Henderson. And it's time that klopp gives camacho or someone else a call up. Better to give them the opportunity over these Deadwood's
 

eng.amohd

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After reflecting more on the game last night:

  1. I can't see any positive, absolute dogshite from the team, Everton would have played better.
  2. We were obviously complacent. The team selection from the start showed that, Lallana and Matip shouldn't start in competitive games.
  3. Playing Trent over Gomez was a huge disappointment, he is in poor form and is quite susceptible physically.
  4. Not playing Fabinho is ludicrous really. He is our only midfielder with proper defensive nous, and the biggest too, and it is this type of games that he flourishes in (physical, direct opponents).
  5. The midfield of Milner, Gini and Lallana is so poor and very very static and should never start together.
  6. Lallana is 2 years past his best and is, sadly, not up to our standards anymore.
  7. All the talk of "efficient performance" and "grinding results" should fucking stop. We will never go anywhere with unconvincing displays, especially when we are bailed out by our defence (can't believe I am finally writing this!).
  8. We should try to play on the ground, on the counter-press, at least against mid to bottom teams.
  9. Shaqiri, Fabinho and Keita should be playing regularly.
Our best team at the moment for Fulham's I believe is:

Alisson
Gomez, Lovren, van Dijk, Robertson
Fabinho/Henderson, Keita/Wijnaldum
Mane, Firmino, Shaqiri
Salah​
 

Retro Helix

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What an utter mess of a game. Not only do the players need a wake up but Klopp as well. Starting Lallana and keeping him on until 75min then bringing on Origi.....really???? WTF!!!!
 

Retro Helix

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next game is fulham which is not a strong team so it is time to test 343 because ( gomez vvd lovren/robertson ) more than enough in defenders line , and you can control medfield with ( shaqiri/milner kieta gini fabinho ) so it is time to test new play style !
Definitely!
 

eng.amohd

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next game is fulham which is not a strong team so it is time to test 343 because ( gomez vvd lovren/robertson ) more than enough in defenders line , and you can control medfield with ( shaqiri/milner kieta gini fabinho ) so it is time to test new play style !
Our OLD style, the one we have playing last three seasons.
 

Rambler

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@Mascot88 mentioned those dreadful blue shirts. I hate seeing us playing in blue. There is only one team that plays in blue in our city and we looked remarkably like them last night. Get rid of them. Can't believe the club ever agreed to them.

Also I know I am a dinosaur but I firmly believe you pick your best possible team for each game. We have struggled since that cup defeat to Chelsea when he changed half the side. Tinkering destroys momentum and I believe it doesn't benefit the players. I know what Shanks and Bob P would have said about resting tired players.
 
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eng.amohd

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@Mascot88 mentioned those dreadful blue shirts. I hate seeing us playing in blue. There is only one team that plays in blue in our city and we looked remarkably like them last night. Get rid of them.
To be fair, the blokes in blue play better than how we played last night...
 

Dutch

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Seen this kind of matches often a few years back, A physical strong opponent who is a 100% motivated with a fanatical crowd behind them, Leicester away the first match after they fired Ranieri comes to mind and I thought we got rid of those easy loses since VvD arrived. Then I realised the Matip, Lallana and Sturridge, representatives from those days were on the pitch, nuff' said.
 

lfc.eddie

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To be fair, the blokes in blue play better than how we played last night...
Blasphemy..... they will never be able to play better than us even if we make all our boys play with one foot off the ground. Nonsense....

Didn’t want to comment earlier because it might be construed as overreacting (work both ways, we beat a team and people start talking about us being unplayable is also overreacting....).

This has been written all over after our Chelsea matchup. We’ve been riding on our luck even against Huddersfield. I said we should not be too glad to rely too heavily on our defence and luck, we will get punished by a slightly better team and it has happened.

I think we are missing Buvac in our attacking and high pressing style.
 

eng.amohd

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Blasphemy..... they will never be able to play better than us even if we make all our boys play with one foot off the ground. Nonsense....

Didn’t want to comment earlier because it might be construed as overreacting (work both ways, we beat a team and people start talking about us being unplayable is also overreacting....).

This has been written all over after our Chelsea matchup. We’ve been riding on our luck even against Huddersfield. I said we should not be too glad to rely too heavily on our defence and luck, we will get punished by a slightly better team and it has happened.

I think we are missing Buvac in our attacking and high pressing style.
You are correct, we had it coming, and people still intent to be looking just at the points and say we are fine. We got away in the last 3 games or so. We really miss Buvac.

And it is the best description to our last night's performance is to acknowledge that the bitters are actually better than that.
 

santana

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I think criminal is a bit harsh considering just how difficult that is to do. All three proved last season they can be elite players. When in form and clicking they were labelled the best front three in the world. First and foremost not many players on their level are readily available on the market. I imagine it is relatively hard to sell the idea that you can join Liverpool as an attacking player and be a regular starter based on what they did for us last year. Plus the fact we aren’t in the same boat as City who can lash 300k a week at a lad to be content with long stints on the bench.

Generally speaking when you look around the top European teams, not many if any have a large stockpile of elite attacking talent. City probably have the best depth in that regard. Barca have 4 good ones and not much else. Madrid have a misfiring Bale and not a lot else. PSG have a front 3 with no cover whatsoever. Bayern have a top striker with ageing wingers. Juve have Ronaldo + 3 other good options.

Us having our front 3 + Shaqiri and Sturridge (so nearly Fekir as well) isn’t much different to any of those sides. I‘d question the mentality, confidence and fitness of our lads at the moment over the idea of a lack of competition.
nothing wrong with the players , the same players beat man city last season many times , liverpool must win the medfield battle and to control the game try 343 because liverpool got the best midfielders in the world but only use 3 of them not 4 !
 

Noo Noo

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I would say that last nights team was good enough to win that game, if they bothered. They didn't.

That aside there's certainly a balance issue in midfield and up front. Playing Firmino deep and Mane Salah up top and central isn't working. They're all trying these little tippy tappy stuff in areas where there's no space and the game has slowed to a standstill.

As I said earlier this has been coming. Cross fingers its now a wake up call and we get a proper reaction. But Klopp certainly needs to make a few tweaks tactically to get things rolling again.
 

Caradoc

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This is the post match thread. It is not the season so far thread. The reflections seen in here should reflect the match I saw and by and large they do. :-)

But you can discuss the match in the context of what it means in the great scheme of things not just as a standalone match. ;-)


Btw. It is the Post-Match thread as you say not the ‘Pedantics and Semantics’ thread. :well done:
 
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Red Armada

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  1. We were obviously complacent. The team selection from the start showed that, Lallana and Matip shouldn't start in competitive games.
  2. Playing Trent over Gomez was a huge disappointment, he is in poor form and is quite susceptible physically.
  3. Not playing Fabinho is ludicrous really. He is our only midfielder with proper defensive nous, and the biggest too, and it is this type of games that he flourishes in (physical, direct opponents).
Clyne and Lovren were sick and Gomez was left out as a precaution after picking a niggle against Arsenal. Henderson is out, Keita is just coming back, Shaqiri would have been an unwanted distraction and Fabinho was abysmal versus Arsenal. Klopp was right to drop him based on his form. He had no other options other than the ones that he played.

What else could he possibly do?
 

Caradoc

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If you could be sure of 2 years the contract would be for 4. You might even have gotten 4 years out of him. This is because any renewal would be looked at after 2 years (on a 4 year contract) and at that point he could be assesed. let's face it you don't spend 40 50 million for a 2 year wonder. We'll see if he's still playing well for Lyon in 5 years time we might have some regrets. The thing is we don't know he could have been a huge player for us for 4 or 5 years. I'm just going to have to get over it though as it didn't happenand is not going yo happen.

I think you need to make your mind up ......

I still reckon he was good for at least 2 years and those 2 years would have bought us time to find a replacement (considering AOC was known to be out). As it is we end up with Shaquiri (whom I like) in whom Klopp doesn't show full confidence and can not play in Serbia.

You don’t sign a player for 4 or 5 years for a £50 million+ transfer fee outlay because you think he will give you at least 2 years. You have to carry on paying him for the last 2-3 years at the same rate. And who do you think is going to pay serious bucks for the lad after 2 years when his performances dip sharply? You don’t conduct transfers on a wing and a prayer when you already know there are significant fitness concerns that may well come back to bite you on the bum.
 

Foldy

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I just hope Jurgen went supernova at the end oif that game with the players. Nobody looked up for that game from start to finish with the exception of Robertson. A massive mountain to climb now for the remaining group games. Are drastic changes needed? No, the formation needs tinkering with no doubt about that. Shaqiri has worked his socks off and even though he wasn't at that game last night he's shown his influence in games when playing and for me he has to start against Fulham. As some of said maybe its a needed shock to the system to have a loss like that but overall its worrying for our season if we plan to have success in either the PL or CL. Right now I don't think either are achievable. We've been running at idle since the start of the season and if it hadn't been for some excellent defending from our back four the results may have been different. Lets get Keita back who I think is key and have a goalfest at Fulham for Salah, Bobby and Mane. Chins up and we go again.
 

Walshy07

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Something isn't right and hasn't been all season.
We can seem to find any balance. Last season we leaked goals but scored them for fun.
This year were not scoring or creating half as much but are tightened up at the back.
I think the midfield is the problem. Milner and Gino shouldn't be playing together. It lacks drive and creativity. Milner also looks fucked at the moment.
Fabinho isnt ready, Keitas injured along with Hendo and Ox so thats some good players missing.
One thing i was really shocked at was the likes of Matip and Origi even being considered. They've been shit since they got here and look way out of depth. Also said it in the match thread - Lallana. Why? Hes shocking and Jurgen needs to end his love affair of him. He has no pace, no strength and now the clever passes elude him as well so hes a passenger.
In this day and age unless we draw Crewe or someone Lallana, Origi and Matip shouldnt be anywhere near our squad let alone first team.
 

Caradoc

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I’ve had a chance to reflect, the morning after the evening before. And the big question for me is still where the hell was our midfield? Red Star seemed to bypass it at will as if it simply wasn’t there.
 

RodM

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For MotM, I ended up voting for Robertson as he was the only player that I didn't think looked completely useless. Then an awful thought crossed my mind - Liverpool appear to have morphed into the Scottish National team.

Just bring on Sunday. I want to forget that performance as soon as possible
 



Lowton_Red

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This has been written all over after our Chelsea matchup. We’ve been riding on our luck even against Huddersfield. I said we should not be too glad to rely too heavily on our defence and luck, we will get punished by a slightly better team and it has happened.

I think we are missing Buvac in our attacking and high pressing style.
I was thinking pretty much the same thing. Our pressing is nowhere near the intensity of last year. And our intricate inter-change / rapid inter-passing is nowhere to be seen - at times we can barely string two passes together. Frankly, we have been lucky to get away with it in several games this season.

Is Lijnders good enough to be number two, given he failed in his first attempt at senior management? And I wonder if the curse of Achterberg has finally caught up with Alisson?
 

lfc.eddie

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I was thinking pretty much the same thing. Our pressing is nowhere near the intensity of last year. And our intricate inter-change / rapid inter-passing is nowhere to be seen - at times we can barely string two passes together. Frankly, we have been lucky to get away with it in several games this season.

Is Lijnders good enough to be number two, given he failed in his first attempt at senior management? And I wonder if the curse of Achterberg has finally caught up with Alisson?
Yeah, something you and I could only gauge based on stats presented throughout this season. I am not convinced with that Ljinders fella, not like some who keep thinking he will take up as successor to Klopp and be as good. Just don’t see it. And I doubt Buvac will be back anytime soon. So it’s wise to have a new plan that works, so far 4-2-3-1 seemed to be it for me.
 

Noo Noo

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I'd get back to the attacking formation for the front 3 that worked so well last year.

Mane and Salah wide and cutting in rather than Firmino deep and those two up front as a double. They need space as they're basically allover each other right now. We need to be dragging defenses out of shape but its currently too easy. Defenses let Firmino go into midfield and then stay narrow for Mane and Salah.

Then start looking at the midfield balance and shape.
 

Caradoc

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I was thinking pretty much the same thing. Our pressing is nowhere near the intensity of last year. And our intricate inter-change / rapid inter-passing is nowhere to be seen - at times we can barely string two passes together. Frankly, we have been lucky to get away with it in several games this season.

Is Lijnders good enough to be number two, given he failed in his first attempt at senior management? And I wonder if the curse of Achterberg has finally caught up with Alisson?

Some coaches only ever succeed as a number 2 and are very good at it. When they make the step up they struggle but that doesn’t mean they aren’t still very good assistant manager material. Lijnders may well be one of those coaches.

I assume your Achterberg comment was made tongue in cheek.
 

LondonRich

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I was thinking pretty much the same thing. Our pressing is nowhere near the intensity of last year. And our intricate inter-change / rapid inter-passing is nowhere to be seen - at times we can barely string two passes together. Frankly, we have been lucky to get away with it in several games this season.

Is Lijnders good enough to be number two, given he failed in his first attempt at senior management? And I wonder if the curse of Achterberg has finally caught up with Alisson?
I agree entirely. We seem to have changed style from a high press, fast game to a slower possession based game. Deliberate? I am not sure? It leaves a gap between midfield and the front 3 so we end up hoofing it forward and hoping for some magic. Our midfield are also not suited to a slow possession game - cannot keep it and cannot penetrate.

Changing identity is a huge deal and has been evident all year. We need to go back to what Klopp knows or was it indeed Buvac?