Not sure how quoting @Livvy solidifies your case.
POST MATCH: Red Star v Liverpool (UCL 6/11/18 5.55pm)
- Thread starter Mascot88
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It was Livvy who bought the fact that we top the group to my notice. I don't follow that stuff very closely just watch our matches and whine. ^^
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I agree... but it also highlights our shortcomings. Wijnandum is fine as long as it doesn’t mean blocking a shot. Sturridge is fine as long as he doesn’t have to do defensive duties. Lallana is fine when he’s fit and on form. TAA is a big talent but needs a leader (that we are lacking).
It’s a few too many square pegs in round holes.
I think klopp has 11 players that are 100% his system... but the rest don’t quite fit but have to make do.
Like Shaqiri. If he starts in midfield klopp tends to play two deeper midfielders to compensate for Shaqiris lack of pressing.
If Shaqiri is in place of salah or mane again the pressing is less but He creates and is direct.
Clyne doesn’t attack well enough and Moreno can’t defend well enough so TAA and Robertson will start no matter how bad their form might be.
Sturridge doesn’t press so firmino could go on a 3 year goal drought but he’s still a better fit to klopps system than Daniel.
It’s a few too many square pegs in round holes.
I think klopp has 11 players that are 100% his system... but the rest don’t quite fit but have to make do.
Like Shaqiri. If he starts in midfield klopp tends to play two deeper midfielders to compensate for Shaqiris lack of pressing.
If Shaqiri is in place of salah or mane again the pressing is less but He creates and is direct.
Clyne doesn’t attack well enough and Moreno can’t defend well enough so TAA and Robertson will start no matter how bad their form might be.
Sturridge doesn’t press so firmino could go on a 3 year goal drought but he’s still a better fit to klopps system than Daniel.
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Your post was pretty scathing. I’d hate to see what lies beyond that that would place your post somewhere in the middle! 
I prefer the middle, realism, rather than too harsh, or too optimistic. I can see some posters wallow at either end. Call it as you see it though; tonight was very shit so its just not okay to claim all is rosey or will be. Even Klopp himself only had ten fingers.
If I had one finger, Oxlade Chamberlain not at 10, is the biggest problem. Even worse, he might not ever be the same player.
What is Klopp's system?
At the moment we have a deep defensive line and high pressing. He's got to sort his ideas out first imo then we can discuss which players fit the system. An example is Firmino so far this season he is completely ineffectual in all aspects of play. Even when he came on tonight he didn't make an iota of a different and if anything made us look even more impuissant than we were with Sturridge.
Going to 2 DM's with Shaquiri might be a solution the problem is we havent got 2 DM's.
All this is very difficult to discuss as so far this season we havent looked like we have a system which is becoming reminiscent of BR's reign.
Tonight just confused me even more. Seeing Sturridge defending centrally at a corner can only be described as arrogant. I have enough trouble seeing Firmino do that let alone Sturridge.
At the moment we have a deep defensive line and high pressing. He's got to sort his ideas out first imo then we can discuss which players fit the system. An example is Firmino so far this season he is completely ineffectual in all aspects of play. Even when he came on tonight he didn't make an iota of a different and if anything made us look even more impuissant than we were with Sturridge.
Going to 2 DM's with Shaquiri might be a solution the problem is we havent got 2 DM's.
All this is very difficult to discuss as so far this season we havent looked like we have a system which is becoming reminiscent of BR's reign.
Tonight just confused me even more. Seeing Sturridge defending centrally at a corner can only be described as arrogant. I have enough trouble seeing Firmino do that let alone Sturridge.
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Thoughts
1) from the first whistle the players looked completely intimidated by the atmosphere. It was hostile, but at the end of the day it’s just people fucking shouting, and professional, highly paid athletes should still be able to perform.
2) Never, ever fucking ever want to see Adam Lallana in a Liverpool shirt again. That might be harsh, but he offers nothing, slows everything down with his pointless twists and turns and for all his lovely technique, it never comes to anything at all.
3) Timewasting. When is the game going to get a grip on this? Red Star took about twenty minutes out of that second half alone and it was so frustrating to watch, never mind be part of. They took a minute out of injury time just on one throw in. Yellow cards should have been handed out with every blatantly feigned injury, and the referee should have played another fucking ten minutes.
4) Milner, Gini, Trent, and Mane looked knackered and probably still feeling the Arsenal game.
5) I think Klopp got the team selection all wrong. Regardless of his performance on Sat I would have played Fabinho. The defence always looks shaky with Matip, so I think he is only an emergency option right now. Gomez deserves to be starting these fixtures as a centre back, and I don’t think we concede the first with him in there. I thought Klopp would go with Lovren, but with him ill (again) I think you have to play Joe.
6) How different does this turn out if Sturridge puts that simple ball into the open goal. Really terrible for a finisher, and that, and the selfishness he showed in front of goal on a couple of occasions when he had better options that snatching at never on shots, meant he deserved the hook at half time.
7) Bin off that blue shirt please. It’s fucking awful, it’s conpletely wrong for us and we never play well in it. And it isn’t purple. It’s fucking blue. Bad vibes.
8) Apparently the team get back tonight at about 1am. I hope Klopp is still shouting at them as they land. He spent most of the game ranting at them, so whatever he is asking them to do they are clearly not doing it. They owe him and the fans a performance at the weekend and there is no excuse not to batter Fulham.
9) Can we stop these fucking Gomez long throws. Literally what is the point? It does nothing for us.
10) There was a stunning lack of willing from any of our lads to take on any of theres. Which is bizarre as Mane had their full back on toast all night. It’s fine to lose the ball if your trying something that could get us in. We’re incredibly reluctant to do the boss thing that would put us in a good position - whether that’s skinning an opponent (which both Salah or Mane are perfectly capable of) or carving them with a through ball. The preference is to check back, and keep passing the ball across midfield. They look incredibly risk averse, which is not the LFC I’m used to.
1) from the first whistle the players looked completely intimidated by the atmosphere. It was hostile, but at the end of the day it’s just people fucking shouting, and professional, highly paid athletes should still be able to perform.
2) Never, ever fucking ever want to see Adam Lallana in a Liverpool shirt again. That might be harsh, but he offers nothing, slows everything down with his pointless twists and turns and for all his lovely technique, it never comes to anything at all.
3) Timewasting. When is the game going to get a grip on this? Red Star took about twenty minutes out of that second half alone and it was so frustrating to watch, never mind be part of. They took a minute out of injury time just on one throw in. Yellow cards should have been handed out with every blatantly feigned injury, and the referee should have played another fucking ten minutes.
4) Milner, Gini, Trent, and Mane looked knackered and probably still feeling the Arsenal game.
5) I think Klopp got the team selection all wrong. Regardless of his performance on Sat I would have played Fabinho. The defence always looks shaky with Matip, so I think he is only an emergency option right now. Gomez deserves to be starting these fixtures as a centre back, and I don’t think we concede the first with him in there. I thought Klopp would go with Lovren, but with him ill (again) I think you have to play Joe.
6) How different does this turn out if Sturridge puts that simple ball into the open goal. Really terrible for a finisher, and that, and the selfishness he showed in front of goal on a couple of occasions when he had better options that snatching at never on shots, meant he deserved the hook at half time.
7) Bin off that blue shirt please. It’s fucking awful, it’s conpletely wrong for us and we never play well in it. And it isn’t purple. It’s fucking blue. Bad vibes.
8) Apparently the team get back tonight at about 1am. I hope Klopp is still shouting at them as they land. He spent most of the game ranting at them, so whatever he is asking them to do they are clearly not doing it. They owe him and the fans a performance at the weekend and there is no excuse not to batter Fulham.
9) Can we stop these fucking Gomez long throws. Literally what is the point? It does nothing for us.
10) There was a stunning lack of willing from any of our lads to take on any of theres. Which is bizarre as Mane had their full back on toast all night. It’s fine to lose the ball if your trying something that could get us in. We’re incredibly reluctant to do the boss thing that would put us in a good position - whether that’s skinning an opponent (which both Salah or Mane are perfectly capable of) or carving them with a through ball. The preference is to check back, and keep passing the ball across midfield. They look incredibly risk averse, which is not the LFC I’m used to.
I’m wondering just how much the Fekir debacle affected Klopp’s plans going into this season. It just seemed like a very specific type of signing if that makes sense. So as far as our failure to close the deal goes, just how significant was that (if at all)?
I just feel that Ox’s absence coupled with the Fekir deal falling through may be what's missing.
I just feel that Ox’s absence coupled with the Fekir deal falling through may be what's missing.
