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Post Match: Salzburg v Liverpool (UCL 10/12/19 5.55pm)

Man of the match

  • Alisson

    Votes: 37 23.9%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Lovren [off 53’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 39 25.2%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • Henderson

    Votes: 31 20.0%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 7 4.5%
  • Keita [GOAL 57’, off 87’]

    Votes: 95 61.3%
  • Salah [GOAL 58’]

    Votes: 16 10.3%
  • Firmino [off 75’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mane

    Votes: 44 28.4%
  • Gomez [on 53’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Milner [on 75’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Origi [on 87’]

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    155
  • Poll closed .

RedLar

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Oct 25, 2014
Messages
1,651
Is me, but don't you think we played better this time in the early stages this year, than we did last year. I think so. We seemed more controlled and calm this time round?
Dont think we have looked anything particularly flash in Europe this year. Did enough. Last year, we were awful away. So, perhap a bit better. Certainly havent battered sides as we did 2 years ago.
 

Commando

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Maybe a bit controversial.
But Minamino, to me, looks a tad bit slow in making decisions and dwells on the ball for a slight bit long. If he doesn't develop in that aspect, I don't think he would become world class.

Don't forget the "Klopp" factor. How many of our squad were world class before Jurgen got his hands on them? (y)
 

koptician

We'll go again!
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Jul 11, 2013
Messages
2,962
Maybe a bit controversial.
But Minamino, to me, looks a tad bit slow in making decisions and dwells on the ball for a slight bit long. If he doesn't develop in that aspect, I don't think he would become world class.
You're absolutely right...I've just watched the bits where he was attacking and at critical moments he isn't crystal clear in his thinking. I wonder if this can be coached in or not.
I thought Adama Traore had the same issue but it seems he's starting to improve on it under Nuno's guidance.
 

The Phenom

Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Messages
597
…...……..The likes of Monchengladbach back in the day forged a strong bond with us that still goes on to this day...…………..
Going off topic but with the mention of Monchengladbach, I would like to know where I can find out about the next annual visit there by LFC fans. I would very much want to join up. Thank you for any heads up, and apologies for this little hijack.
 

The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
5,433
You're absolutely right...I've just watched the bits where he was attacking and at critical moments he isn't crystal clear in his thinking. I wonder if this can be coached in or not.
I thought Adama Traore had the same issue but it seems he's starting to improve on it under Nuno's guidance.
Our players must be having 100s / 1000s instructions on how to react to situations. If you are not fast enough in thinking its very difficult to play for us. And I think, quite possibly, our staff drills all these instructions into players, till it becomes natural.
 

Jimmyscase

DoctorJimmy: knee-high flying tackle specialist
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May 18, 2016
Messages
5,527
I agree with the footballing part of what you say about them. Also, Klopp has evidently great respect for what their manager is doing there. Mané and Keita being RB products helps obviously.

However, the economic part of that shouldn't be forgotten. Salzburg are a Red Bull club, and in their current status, Leipzig's official feeder club. Also, just like Abu Dhabi in England, RB have massively distorted the competition in Austria, relegating the big traditional Vienna clubs to an anecdotical also-ran status. I despise everything about that. They not only distort the league in Austria, but also in Germany, with their money and with the advantage of being able to bring in the best players from Salzburg once they are ready. And they also break the 50+1 rule which has been so beneficial for German football, potentially opening the way for others to follow suit.

So, all about this is a bit fake, and that's why I don't think we'll build up a genuine link with them as we did with Mönchengladbach and Saint-Etienne. They both are proper clubs, with proper supporters and a tremendous atmosphere in their respective stadia (isn't it great btw to see how Mönchengladbach lead their league with that young team?). As far as I'm concerned, I've every bit of respect for these two clubs and would love to see them do well, but it'll never extend to any club owned by RB, even if they happen to play good football.
I'm really happy you wrote this. It woke me up. I was becoming indifferent to the malady inherent in Red Bull's strategic goals. Probably because of me concentrating completely on the 2 blue coloured EPL plastics.
 

Livvy

Alles wird gut
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Feb 11, 2016
Messages
8,142
Much of a muchness, to be fair. :)
Klopp explained it in his post match press conference.

On the performances of former Salzburg players Keita and Sadio Mane…
Clearly, you educate great players here in Salzburg. I think both played very well. In the beginning we used Naby a little bit on the wing and then we changed our system from 4-3-3 to 4-4-1-1 and used him in the No.10 position and he really played great. Both of them played great, fantastic.

 
Last edited:

Nur der BvB09

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Joined
Nov 6, 2015
Messages
1,031
I agree with the footballing part of what you say about them. Also, Klopp has evidently great respect for what their manager is doing there. Mané and Keita being RB products helps obviously.

However, the economic part of that shouldn't be forgotten. Salzburg are a Red Bull club, and in their current status, Leipzig's official feeder club. Also, just like Abu Dhabi in England, RB have massively distorted the competition in Austria, relegating the big traditional Vienna clubs to an anecdotical also-ran status. I despise everything about that. They not only distort the league in Austria, but also in Germany, with their money and with the advantage of being able to bring in the best players from Salzburg once they are ready. And they also break the 50+1 rule which has been so beneficial for German football, potentially opening the way for others to follow suit.

So, all about this is a bit fake, and that's why I don't think we'll build up a genuine link with them as we did with Mönchengladbach and Saint-Etienne. They both are proper clubs, with proper supporters and a tremendous atmosphere in their respective stadia (isn't it great btw to see how Mönchengladbach lead their league with that young team?). As far as I'm concerned, I've every bit of respect for these two clubs and would love to see them do well, but it'll never extend to any club owned by RB, even if they happen to play good football.
Made my Day! Well spoken!Thank You
 

Red over the water

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Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
3,439
Just want to add my appreciation for Hope in Your Heart's post on RB Salzburg. I almost glossed over that aspect when I merely tipped my hat to the Red Bull fortune in my post, but obviously it is a 'plastic' sort of situation that, if not quite as bad as the Abu Dhabi human rights abuses, is still part of the problem of modern football.

Mind you, I still want them to smash Man Utd if they meet up in the Channel 5 Cup!
 

sportbilly1966

TIA New Signing
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
3,779
That's fair to have your opinion on it, and yes, persistent infringement of the laws of the game constitutes a yellow card, but what constitutes persistent infringement is entirely in the judgement of the ref as to what is needed to manage the game.

But just to have actual facts rather than fake news, I'll start by assuming by Kwemu you actually mean Enock Mwepu. During the match, RB Salzburg as a team committed 10 fouls, with Mwepu committing 4 of them (not 6). It's possible he was nearing the limit and another would have gotten him a card, but again who knows other than the ref.

This referee didn't pull out cards easily, and honestly there wasn't a need in this match as I saw it. I'm not saying I would have officiated it exactly the same way, but I didn't see anything here that suggested he was poor. Again, he might not have called it to your satisfaction, but that doesn't mean he was poor.
Yes apologies on Mwepu yes he did commit 4 fouls but there was 2 maybe 3 occassions where a foul was committed by him and the referee waved play on, you can see that I commented several times in the in game thread in regards to him committing these fouls.

What really gets my goat is that referees allow persistent misconduct with no yellows but soon as a player, Mane, commits dissent a flashes the yellow.

It is about opinions and IMO this referee either turned a blind eye to a lot of fouls on Liverpool players or just was incompetent in not knowing what constitutes a foul, Mane in the corner when the player went through him, Mane again when he played the ball through 2 players and the player just turned in to his path and blocked him, Mae yet again in the box played the ball past the their fullback and was impeded by the players arms thers was also maybe 2 fouls on Salah with the player behind fouling him, these are examples that I remember during the game.

Also maybe my eye for the way the refereeing again is swayed as a long time player in understanding the dark arts and snide ways to foul innoculously and also as a previous referee instructor, where a lot of my focus was on the actual interpretation of a foul not just reading the Laws of the Game and passing.

It seems a lot of refs have never played the game and dont understand the physical aspect of challenges and that is my main gripe.

Sorry for the long post it is that for me some of the standard of reffing is poor, bring back Collina
 

liver1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
2,189
Id take Minamino here as a backup on the wings. It doesnt matter that hes not world class, as if he was hed cost £100million+.

Mane Firmino and Salah werent world class when they got here. As long as youve got the right attributes, which this guy has, we can work with him.

I cant seem him costing that much so if we could get him fairly cheap it would be a very good option. His contract expires in 18 months.
 

GaryC

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Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
131
The recent resurgence of Ox, Keita, Shaq, Lallana and Gomez has greatly strengthened our squad. Now if one of our first team players is out of sorts, we have others to step in to take up the burden. This, together with our strong team spirit and leadership, bodes well for our multi pronged attack on trophies this year.
 

gr_sounder

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Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
2,596
Yes apologies on Mwepu yes he did commit 4 fouls but there was 2 maybe 3 occassions where a foul was committed by him and the referee waved play on, you can see that I commented several times in the in game thread in regards to him committing these fouls.

What really gets my goat is that referees allow persistent misconduct with no yellows but soon as a player, Mane, commits dissent a flashes the yellow.

It is about opinions and IMO this referee either turned a blind eye to a lot of fouls on Liverpool players or just was incompetent in not knowing what constitutes a foul, Mane in the corner when the player went through him, Mane again when he played the ball through 2 players and the player just turned in to his path and blocked him, Mae yet again in the box played the ball past the their fullback and was impeded by the players arms thers was also maybe 2 fouls on Salah with the player behind fouling him, these are examples that I remember during the game.

Also maybe my eye for the way the refereeing again is swayed as a long time player in understanding the dark arts and snide ways to foul innoculously and also as a previous referee instructor, where a lot of my focus was on the actual interpretation of a foul not just reading the Laws of the Game and passing.

It seems a lot of refs have never played the game and dont understand the physical aspect of challenges and that is my main gripe.

Sorry for the long post it is that for me some of the standard of reffing is poor, bring back Collina
Haha, if there is one thing we can agree on... it is to bring back Collina. That he had to step aside because he got "too old" was ridiculous but I guess standard fare for FIFA. I see that you're a long time player and former referee instructor. Here we have a lot in common. I reffed for 30 years (off and on) and did evaluations but never taught. I also played competitively through Div1 college (and have reffed college matches). I don't use those bits of information to try and impress (we all know they are not impressive) but rather that I at least come to this from a position of experience.

For what it's worth, I found a 5:38min video showing Mane's touches in the game. The play with Mane in the corner, I absolutely would have given a foul as Mane was knocked over, but I've seen a lot of refs not do so in that situation. The other situations that you mention, I believe I see them in this video, but I wouldn't have called a foul on any of those either. Not a chance.

Now did this referee have a high bar for calling a foul? I think so. He called a total of 4 fouls on Liverpool and those were on Keita, Salah, and Mane (2). Do I think it's really possible in a game that was as frantic and action packed that Liverpool only committed 4 fouls and not a single one by a defender? By this refs estimation the answer is yes... though I'm guessing most refs would have called more on both sides.

Yellows for persistent infringement is a tool that a ref can use to control a game and honestly I didn't think it was necessary in this game. The dissent for Mane I can't talk to.... since I don't know what Mane said or what he might have said in the build up to the card.

Again I have no complaint that many referees might have called this game differently, but I don't see anything "wrong" in what he did in the match. Honestly I thought he was a neutral non-factor and called what needed to be called. Did he miss somethings, absolutely, but I still don't think he did a bad job out there. Sorry now I'll stop as I'm sure most don't want to hear referee analysis.
 

sportbilly1966

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Messages
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Haha, if there is one thing we can agree on... it is to bring back Collina. That he had to step aside because he got "too old" was ridiculous but I guess standard fare for FIFA. I see that you're a long time player and former referee instructor. Here we have a lot in common. I reffed for 30 years (off and on) and did evaluations but never taught. I also played competitively through Div1 college (and have reffed college matches). I don't use those bits of information to try and impress (we all know they are not impressive) but rather that I at least come to this from a position of experience.

For what it's worth, I found a 5:38min video showing Mane's touches in the game. The play with Mane in the corner, I absolutely would have given a foul as Mane was knocked over, but I've seen a lot of refs not do so in that situation. The other situations that you mention, I believe I see them in this video, but I wouldn't have called a foul on any of those either. Not a chance.

Now did this referee have a high bar for calling a foul? I think so. He called a total of 4 fouls on Liverpool and those were on Keita, Salah, and Mane (2). Do I think it's really possible in a game that was as frantic and action packed that Liverpool only committed 4 fouls and not a single one by a defender? By this refs estimation the answer is yes... though I'm guessing most refs would have called more on both sides.

Yellows for persistent infringement is a tool that a ref can use to control a game and honestly I didn't think it was necessary in this game. The dissent for Mane I can't talk to.... since I don't know what Mane said or what he might have said in the build up to the card.

Again I have no complaint that many referees might have called this game differently, but I don't see anything "wrong" in what he did in the match. Honestly I thought he was a neutral non-factor and called what needed to be called. Did he miss somethings, absolutely, but I still don't think he did a bad job out there. Sorry now I'll stop as I'm sure most don't want to hear referee analysis.
Having experience from both sides, reffing and playing is so invaluable when reffing
 

Alright Now

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Apr 16, 2016
Messages
13,399
had some time to watch the first 60 min to the second goal, and a point of note on Senor Bobby

So many times he had dropped deep into the midfield to help defend, around the 50th minute leading up to Naby-Baby's goal he stripped Minamino of the ball when he was about to shoot from 20 yards out

No joke, he was playing more of a #10 tonight than he was a #9. I reckon, we were actually looking like formation from Barca of 8-10 years ago

I watched it again last night as well and noticed the same. He was tireless, chasing down the ball even in our box and moving it around. Think he’s playing a different role this year and it’s much deeper. I’m guessing Fabi’s injury is contributing to that. While a lot is being said about his form this season, he’s leading the team with 8 assists. He’s the señor. And he’s our number 9. And our number 10. And our number 6.
 

Alright Now

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Son turned on the afterburner and went 3/4 th of the field. It's a brilliant run, rarely seen.
Mo is as @[email protected] said, defied physics a bit.
Both are great great ones. Since Mo plays for us, Heart says Mo. But brain says Son, as it was more difficult, as in any 1 tackle could have stopped it from happening, but nothing did.
My brain says your brain needs examination.
 

Perth Red

Deep in the wilds of outback Queensland
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Aug 30, 2010
Messages
493
I know that Mo's finishing can seem frustrating at times but let's not forget he's playing at an extremely high level of football and every kick of the ball can have massive significance for not just the club but also for many millions of LFC fans around the world. He's playing against international and sometimes world class defenders and only has a microsecond to make a decision or apply his skill. These aren't practice games we're playing tha' knows!

We are well fortunate to have him.
I agree. You have to be in those positions to miss them and he has started doing that again after a quiet period. The backheel for Keita, he tried another that got blocked on its way to Ox, show that his brain is firing, he is getting in the positions and has hit the net a couple of times.
Perhaps more focus on Mane is helping him with getting a bit more time after being double teamed for so long.
 

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
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Having experience from both sides, reffing and playing is so invaluable when reffing
@gr_sounder what I noticed was the camera work was absolutely shit for the off-ball incidents. Lovren injury, the exchange leading up to Mane's yellow card and a few other moments when I expected some video reviews of how Mane ended up on the ground or the seconds leasing to Lovren laying on the pitch. Maybe it is just DAZN running their own feeds, but it was truly shit.

And Alan Smith is a cunt
 

Commando

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Haha, if there is one thing we can agree on... it is to bring back Collina. That he had to step aside because he got "too old" was ridiculous but I guess standard fare for FIFA. I see that you're a long time player and former referee instructor. Here we have a lot in common. I reffed for 30 years (off and on) and did evaluations but never taught. I also played competitively through Div1 college (and have reffed college matches). I don't use those bits of information to try and impress (we all know they are not impressive) but rather that I at least come to this from a position of experience.

For what it's worth, I found a 5:38min video showing Mane's touches in the game. The play with Mane in the corner, I absolutely would have given a foul as Mane was knocked over, but I've seen a lot of refs not do so in that situation. The other situations that you mention, I believe I see them in this video, but I wouldn't have called a foul on any of those either. Not a chance.

Now did this referee have a high bar for calling a foul? I think so. He called a total of 4 fouls on Liverpool and those were on Keita, Salah, and Mane (2). Do I think it's really possible in a game that was as frantic and action packed that Liverpool only committed 4 fouls and not a single one by a defender? By this refs estimation the answer is yes... though I'm guessing most refs would have called more on both sides.

Yellows for persistent infringement is a tool that a ref can use to control a game and honestly I didn't think it was necessary in this game. The dissent for Mane I can't talk to.... since I don't know what Mane said or what he might have said in the build up to the card.

Again I have no complaint that many referees might have called this game differently, but I don't see anything "wrong" in what he did in the match. Honestly I thought he was a neutral non-factor and called what needed to be called. Did he miss somethings, absolutely, but I still don't think he did a bad job out there. Sorry now I'll stop as I'm sure most don't want to hear referee analysis.
Mané’s dissent, I saw him mouth “feck you” at the ref in an aggressive manner. I had no problem with the ref giving him a yellow. IMO he could have been red carded if the ref was so inclined. I was nervous following that exchange that Sadio might even get a second yellow for trying to get some retribution for the earlier incident that peeved him so much.


Have to agree with @Semmy regarding the camera work. Well, not so much the camera work as the editing. They must have had clear pictures of both the Sadio and Degsy incidents. After all there are cameras everywhere. Just look at the replays of both goals. Yet the editor/director never bothered showing any replays.