• Hey Guest!
    Enjoy the This Is Anfield Forums but want to remove the adverts? Now you can do so by clicking here.
    Thanks for your support!

Post match: Sheff Utd v Liverpool (EPL 28/9/19 12.30pm)

Man of the match

  • Adrian

    Votes: 32 24.4%
  • Alexander-Arnold

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Matip

    Votes: 50 38.2%
  • Van Dijk

    Votes: 68 51.9%
  • Robertson

    Votes: 15 11.5%
  • Fabinho

    Votes: 49 37.4%
  • Henderson

    Votes: 3 2.3%
  • Wijnaldum

    Votes: 23 17.6%
  • Salah

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Firmino

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Mane

    Votes: 1 0.8%

  • Total voters
    131
  • Poll closed .

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
21,675
Frustratingly could not find the full match on sat evening, so had to just watch the highlights.

The impressions I got from this were

- Sheff Utd we’re right up for it, as you’d expect. This was their first home game against a big hitter.

- that said, they didn’t create a lot for all their bluster, and we had them well shackled.

- we created a lot more, including three one ones and a couple of others we should have done more from.

- we should have had a penalty, but VAR deemed missing a lad sliding in on Mane’s ankle to not be a clear mistake.

So I think we deserved the win and negotiated a tricky away. Sheff Utd fans might say they were unlucky to concede in that fashion, but I’d say they were lucky our front three spurned three goals when clean through.
 


Billy Biskix

TIA Youth Team
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
2,799
Well, it was a tough match. Sheffield made us work hard for the three points; our front three were off form, our midfield lacked creativity and if their finishing hadn't been so poor we could easily have lost.

It was made tougher by the early kick off (we never seem to play well with 12:30 kick-offs), and having to play against twelve men. You just know, when the ref is anthony "Are you ready for my close up Mr Guardiola" taylor, few decisions, if any, are going to go our way.

I mean, how was this not a penalty:



No doubt the VAR team were watching "You've been framed", rather than the match.
Not a single penalty has been awarded after a VAR review since it was introduced in the PL this season and no penalty decisions have been overturned. That's almost 70 games without a single incorrect penalty calI. We either have the best referees in the world who never make a mistake, someone has made a conscious decision that because fouls are subjective they are not going to be over-turned by VAR or the refs are covering for each other's incompetence. Take your pick but I'm guessing it's not the first option.
 

William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
2,232
I mentioned this in an earlier post. I thought that the whole BT coverage was crap yesterday. Starting with the build up, then the commentary, HT and FT analysis. There were numerous times that whoever was controlling the cameras in the editing suite would switch to a view of the crowd or either of the managers without the commentary team referencing what they were seeing. Two that stick in my mind were when we got a throw in just in their half, on the halfway line on our right. The camera switched to Jurgen. Neither Fletcher or Macca said anything regarding Jurgen. When it switched back to the play Robbo is bringing the ball out from defence. Then Sheffield United had a GK. The camera switched to Jurgen, who from his body language is watching the ball sail past him and into touch. The camera switches back to the play as Robbo retrieves the ball to take the throw in. Again none of the commentary team alluded to what had happened.

Amateurish.
As you say 'amateurish' and what I also consider as being a biased take on covering the pre-match, the match itself, and post match. BT Sport were definitely looking for an upset. They seemed to be willing Sheff United to win the game. All I can say is THANK YOU GINI.
 

KillerBeeLFC

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
1,193
Frustratingly could not find the full match on sat evening, so had to just watch the highlights.

The impressions I got from this were

- Sheff Utd we’re right up for it, as you’d expect. This was their first home game against a big hitter.

- that said, they didn’t create a lot for all their bluster, and we had them well shackled.

- we created a lot more, including three one ones and a couple of others we should have done more from.

- we should have had a penalty, but VAR deemed missing a lad sliding in on Mane’s ankle to not be a clear mistake.

So I think we deserved the win and negotiated a tricky away. Sheff Utd fans might say they were unlucky to concede in that fashion, but I’d say they were lucky our front three spurned three goals when clean through.
 



William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
2,232
Not a single penalty has been awarded after a VAR review since it was introduced in the PL this season and no penalty decisions have been overturned. That's almost 70 games without a single incorrect penalty calI. We either have the best referees in the world who never make a mistake, someone has made a conscious decision that because fouls are subjective they are not going to be over-turned by VAR or the refs are covering for each other's incompetence. Take your pick but I'm guessing it's not the first option.
Exactly, mate, how can VAR overturn the referee? It would undermine his authority on the pitch, so I can't see VAR ever overturning a ref's decision.
 

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.
Admin
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
22,975
Not a single penalty has been awarded after a VAR review since it was introduced in the PL this season and no penalty decisions have been overturned. That's almost 70 games without a single incorrect penalty calI. We either have the best referees in the world who never make a mistake, someone has made a conscious decision that because fouls are subjective they are not going to be over-turned by VAR or the refs are covering for each other's incompetence. Take your pick but I'm guessing it's not the first option.
Exactly, mate, how can VAR overturn the referee? It would undermine his authority on the pitch, so I can't see VAR ever overturning a ref's decision.
Well they are already overturning decisions when it comes to offsides, and it has worked very well so far (goals chalked off which would have been given otherwise). But they've never overturned a ref's decision when he overlooked/didn't see a foul in the box. So, it's clearly an instruction towards VAR: you look at the offsides, but not at the potential penalty incidents.

Why they do this remains a mystery for me. They aren't using the available tool to it's full potential, and I wonder why not.
 

melbournered

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Messages
327
Exactly, mate, how can VAR overturn the referee? It would undermine his authority on the pitch, so I can't see VAR ever overturning a ref's decision.
Well they are already overturning decisions when it comes to offsides, and it has worked very well so far (goals chalked off which would have been given otherwise). But they've never overturned a ref's decision when he overlooked/didn't see a foul in the box. So, it's clearly an instruction towards VAR: you look at the offsides, but not at the potential penalty incidents.

Why they do this remains a mystery for me. They aren't using the available tool to it's full potential, and I wonder why not.
So what would be wrong with VAR saying to the ref "you might want to have another look at this".
That really shouldn't undermine the ref. I mean it really shouldn't.
It is VAR's rasion d'etre after all or should be.

But of course Mike Riley isn't keen for refs to go over to the pitch side monitor and review their decision on some dubious pretext.
Which is, not wanting to impact on the flow of the game????? I believe?

All of this begs the question, are there publicized parameters for the involvement of VAR in the Premier League this season?
 

Billy Biskix

TIA Youth Team
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
2,799
Well they are already overturning decisions when it comes to offsides, and it has worked very well so far (goals chalked off which would have been given otherwise). But they've never overturned a ref's decision when he overlooked/didn't see a foul in the box. So, it's clearly an instruction towards VAR: you look at the offsides, but not at the potential penalty incidents.

Why they do this remains a mystery for me. They aren't using the available tool to it's full potential, and I wonder why not.
They have created a problem now with how high the bar is set for a penalty overturn. You will never see a more obvious handball than the one by Sokritis against Villa last week but even that wasn't overturned so there's no chance of getting a foul like the one against Mane given by VAR.

I wonder whether they have decided that if the officials have seen the incident and called it as a foul/non-foul then they'll go with that and only intervene if there's something that the officials haven't actually seen, because their view was obscured or whatever. If they just said that at least we would all know where we stand. Right now though they are presenting the illusion that all these contentious decisions are being objectively reviewed by VAR when they obviously are not.
 



Zinedine Biscan

Spreading the word of St Igor
Moderator
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
23,286
Frustratingly could not find the full match on sat evening, so had to just watch the highlights.

The impressions I got from this were

- Sheff Utd we’re right up for it, as you’d expect. This was their first home game against a big hitter.

- that said, they didn’t create a lot for all their bluster, and we had them well shackled.

- we created a lot more, including three one ones and a couple of others we should have done more from.

- we should have had a penalty, but VAR deemed missing a lad sliding in on Mane’s ankle to not be a clear mistake.

So I think we deserved the win and negotiated a tricky away. Sheff Utd fans might say they were unlucky to concede in that fashion, but I’d say they were lucky our front three spurned three goals when clean through.
I'd disagree with the second point somewhat. I think we did create the clearer chances and the result was a fair one, however they did cause us some problems, McBurnie in particular, and that lad Callum something, and with a bit more clinicality could well have scored. Norwood also forced a good save from Adrian at one point.

I think there would have been few complaints had it ended in a draw.

Edit: Subsequent to writing the above, I've read that on Saturday we allowed the most shots from inside the area (11) in any game since a visit to City two years ago. Defenders did well but it wasn't a comfortable afternoon for sure.
 
Last edited:

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts.
Admin
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
22,975
So what would be wrong with VAR saying to the ref "you might want to have another look at this".
That really shouldn't undermine the ref. I mean it really shouldn't. (...)

All of this begs the question, are there publicized parameters for the involvement of VAR in the Premier League this season?
They have created a problem now with how high the bar is set for a penalty overturn. You will never see a more obvious handball than the one by Sokritis against Villa last week but even that wasn't overturned so there's no chance of getting a foul like the one against Mane given by VAR.

I wonder whether they have decided that if the officials have seen the incident and called it as a foul/non-foul then they'll go with that and only intervene if there's something that the officials haven't actually seen, because their view was obscured or whatever. If they just said that at least we would all know where we stand. Right now though they are presenting the illusion that all these contentious decisions are being objectively reviewed by VAR when they obviously are not.
That's the thing with this lot: they aren't accustomed to communicate clearly with anyone. Not even the players understand what they are on about, not to speak of the fans. With VAR, they create a problem by not communicating clearly what they have agreed on. It's not lunacy I think (there is consistency in the manner how they don't correct ref errors in the box), just bad communication. As ever.

(Of course it wouldn't undermine the ref to give him the help he needs. On the contrary, it would give him a free mind, knowing that someone is able to see if he makes a mistake. As it is, the whole pressure remains on the ref, apart from offside situations, which is already a progress.)
 

Billy Biskix

TIA Youth Team
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
2,799
That's the thing with this lot: they aren't accustomed to communicate clearly with anyone. Not even the players understand what they are on about, not to speak of the fans. With VAR, they create a problem by not communicating clearly what they have agreed on. It's not lunacy I think (there is consistency in the manner how they don't correct ref errors in the box), just bad communication. As ever.

(Of course it wouldn't undermine the ref to give him the help he needs. On the contrary, it would give him a free mind, knowing that someone is able to see if he makes a mistake. As it is, the whole pressure remains on the ref, apart from offside situations, which is already a progress.)
It's in their interests to keep everything as vague as possible so don't expect any comms any time soon. Completely naive of anyone to believe that we would suddenly get loads of penalties when VAR came in. The people reviewing the footage in Stockley Park are the same refs fucking up every week on the pitch and they are never going to undermine their mates.
 



Zinedine Biscan

Spreading the word of St Igor
Moderator
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
23,286
It's in their interests to keep everything as vague as possible so don't expect any comms any time soon. Completely naive of anyone to believe that we would suddenly get loads of penalties when VAR came in. The people reviewing the footage in Stockley Park are the same refs fucking up every week on the pitch and they are never going to undermine their mates.
It does feel like the VAR review team should be independent, with no dog in the fight.
 

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,079
Watching the match back I don't think it was as fluky a win as some are saying.
I think we find a way to score whether the goalie fucks up or not, we always do.
Sheffield were solid defensively, gave it everything they had with the home crowd roaring them on. The conditions were horrid and perfectly suited to the tactics Sheffield deployed to stop us.
Everything was set up for this one to go bad for us, yet, we win.
This win has filled me with more confidence than ever.
This team finds solutions and will not lie down
We had some big problems in this match. Only Henderson was managing to get any decent balls to our forwards who where far from their best.
They stopped us from using our fullbacks. Our wide play was extremely poor yet imo all we needed to do was use wingers rather than inside forwards (So often all Robertson or TAA needed was an option down the line but Mané and Salah stayed inside).
Through the center middle we got nothing at all. Then Klopp changed to 442 diamond and we suddenly dominated the center middle and got a deserved goal from doing that.
It shows how important it is to have better balance between using the wide areas and going through the center middle. Our answer often is to get Matip and to an extent VVD dribbling up the center middle yet seeing what we did in the diamond with Firmino staying central (and slightly deeper) in a more disciplined fashion indicated that that is a much better solution.
TAA and Robertson"s assists is as much a reflection of our tactics as it is their quality we need to tweek what we do through the center is what this match points to imo.
For me we made much heavier work of this match than we should have however SU did an excellent job of foiling us for most of the match.
 

KillerBeeLFC

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
1,193
A lot of them haven’t been working on iPad lately.
Ahh right I just use a normal lappy. Is it an IPTV you usually use to watch live? I gave up on Ace Stream (if youve heard of that) a couple of months ago and subscribed to an IPTV. I think I've cursed them because its been unreliable since I subscribed ha
 



Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
817
Regarding the Mane and Matip penalty shouts in the PL 2019/20.
Neither should have required VAR. Both blatant and within the refs view, so clear cut/stone wall or description of your choice.
Both denied, and there will be more. VAR is a tool, effective when used properly. The way its being used now is like using a nailfile to saw down a redwood.
 

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
8,683
Mate I'm still hungover from last night. Was out for a "new staff" party in a local establishment and the Ale was flowing. These young ones can drink like fishes. There was a George Michael tribute act on and the rest of the night is a bit of a blur.
Just finished a ball tournament in Las Vegas. My liver asked to be released yesterday.

I said no
 

KillerBeeLFC

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
1,193
We had some big problems in this match. Only Henderson was managing to get any decent balls to our forwards who where far from their best.
They stopped us from using our fullbacks. Our wide play was extremely poor yet imo all we needed to do was use wingers rather than inside forwards (So often all Robertson or TAA needed was an option down the line but Mané and Salah stayed inside).
Through the center middle we got nothing at all. Then Klopp changed to 442 diamond and we suddenly dominated the center middle and got a deserved goal from doing that.
It shows how important it is to have better balance between using the wide areas and going through the center middle. Our answer often is to get Matip and to an extent VVD dribbling up the center middle yet seeing what we did in the diamond with Firmino staying central (and slightly deeper) in a more disciplined fashion indicated that that is a much better solution.
TAA and Robertson"s assists is as much a reflection of our tactics as it is their quality we need to tweek what we do through the center is what this match points to imo.
For me we made much heavier work of this match than we should have however SU did an excellent job of foiling us for most of the match.
I felt like Henderson was a bit one dimensional this game. He just wanted to cross the ball every time and it played into their hands a bit.
I was thinking the same thing about the width. Looked like we needed Mo and Salah to stay wide more. Its what Origi did when he came on. He could get one on one on the wing and get his head up to make something happen then. I actually think Origi changed the game. He held the ball up on the wing and was deliberate in every thing he did. I've said before I think we need him sometimes to slow the play down. We try to be too clever at times around the box and its just too congested. Origi was probably MOTM out of the attackers for me but theres no option in the vote for him.
The forwards did have an off day, theres no doubt there. The gaps may have opened more if we bury one of the early chances but we cant expect the forwards to do it every week although they almost always do. Could of ended 2 or 3 nil if we had finished one of the chances earlier. We need more goals from midfielders for matches like this.
We do have the options in midfield to change it up a bit. A Keita or Ox may of been more what we needed but Klopp likes his industrious, reliable guys in first then use subs to change it up. The players on the pitch realise whats going on as well and can find of solutions on the fly like we seen in the Arsenal game when Trent said they cottoned on that the crosses weren't working so they started playing it into feet.
SU were brilliant this game but the manner of our win reminds me of the scum under whisky nose. How many times did we say "the fluky bastards"?
 

Flobs

FADA
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
9,079
I felt like Henderson was a bit one dimensional this game. He just wanted to cross the ball every time and it played into their hands a bit.
I was thinking the same thing about the width. Looked like we needed Mo and Salah to stay wide more. Its what Origi did when he came on. He could get one on one on the wing and get his head up to make something happen then. I actually think Origi changed the game. He held the ball up on the wing and was deliberate in every thing he did. I've said before I think we need him sometimes to slow the play down. We try to be too clever at times around the box and its just too congested. Origi was probably MOTM out of the attackers for me but theres no option in the vote for him.
The forwards did have an off day, theres no doubt there. The gaps may have opened more if we bury one of the early chances but we cant expect the forwards to do it every week although they almost always do. Could of ended 2 or 3 nil if we had finished one of the chances earlier. We need more goals from midfielders for matches like this.
We do have the options in midfield to change it up a bit. A Keita or Ox may of been more what we needed but Klopp likes his industrious, reliable guys in first then use subs to change it up. The players on the pitch realise whats going on as well and can find of solutions on the fly like we seen in the Arsenal game when Trent said they cottoned on that the crosses weren't working so they started playing it into feet.
SU were brilliant this game but the manner of our win reminds me of the scum under whisky nose. How many times did we say "the fluky bastards"?
I agree Origi helped change the game. He seemed to want it more than he often does and won those 50:50 balls he often doesn't. However for me the player that upped it was Gini, he had been in this match but just cycled the ball in a very boring fashion. When the subs started he started running around with a lot more purpose, dribbled more often (in the right direction) and made probing vertical passes. He deserved his 'lucky' goal (even if his other shooting attempts were awful). the diamond definitely looked like it suited Gini, Origi and Firmino against this opposition.
 



Quicksand

Looking for Clues...
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
817
For The 50/50 types, I'd still give ref the benefit of doubt.
Why?
Its not like they cover themselves in total unbiased glory in these situations is it? VAR has exasperated the situation rather than solving anything. Poor decisions are now underpinned, making the ref look infallible and smug.
Maybe if it was an independent arbitrator in the VAR studio rather than one of their own?
 

William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
2,232
Regarding the Mane and Matip penalty shouts in the PL 2019/20.
Neither should have required VAR. Both blatant and within the refs view, so clear cut/stone wall or description of your choice.
Both denied, and there will be more. VAR is a tool, effective when used properly. The way its being used now is like using a nailfile to saw down a redwood.
You are so right, mate, VAR is a RIGHT TOOL AND NO MISTAKE :ROFLMAO:
 

Commando

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
2,070
Why was Adrian wearing last season’s yellow shirt and not the green one for this season? I know we have teal detail on the front of the black third kit, but surely you can’t mix the two shirts up.
 

indianscouser

Anything But Normal
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
11,199
Why?
Its not like they cover themselves in total unbiased glory in these situations is it? VAR has exasperated the situation rather than solving anything. Poor decisions are now underpinned, making the ref look infallible and smug.
Maybe if it was an independent arbitrator in the VAR studio rather than one of their own?
You can take the argument to the next level and say let's bin the ref and make it automated.
imo, nailed on decisions which ref has failed to notice has to be reviewed, u cant have var for every throw in , corner kick taken. Just kills the natural flow of the game.