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Post Match: Stoke 3 Liverpool 5

Semmy

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Not really understanding what the issue is here...

we went to Britannia and won. weather conditions were poor at best. 5 goals!

it's a result where we haven't been getting them. wake up and smell the roses FFS.

No it wasn't a perfect game but not a single team has them. that is reality. we have a decent squad riddled by injuries and folk are ripping apart our 3rd string LB saying he isn't good enough. WTF its a 3rd string LB who doesn't cost us goals and puts in 90 min. unlike the sod mopping up RB for £100k/wk right now...
 

charleslee89

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therealkeano1 said:
Gerrard isn't suited to the dm role. How many times did he give away the ball in a dangerous area. Lucas is better at knitting the defense and midfield
oh well, so what can he contribute to the team? I think he still has it to be an AM though, he just need to pick his runs wiser now and leave the defending to the younger guys.

Mascot88 said:
Gerrard is brilliant at dictating the tempo, as long as that tempo is set to 'frenetic'.

We've watched Gerrard for nigh on 15 years now in the red shirt, and has always wanted to drive the ball forward at speed. He's always looked for the early pass and he's always wanted to play at a high tempo. Sometimes that suits us and sometime it doesn't.

One time it doesn't suit is when you're faced with a team who are building a head of steam and putting you under pressure. That's the time to kill the game. On Sunday we played straight into Stoke's hands, and at two nil the game should have been over as a contest.

At the minute killing a game of football is not something that Gerrard has in his locker, so when he and Rodgers say that he'll need to learn this role it really comes down to this. If he can learn how to do this, then we have a formidable DM on our hands - the best of both world almost.
yeah, but will Gerrard actually adapt his game and learn from Allen how to recycle the ball better?
 

Mascot88

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rab said:
As for Cardiff and Palace having chances, it's a football game of course they will have some chances.
This is alarming, isn't it?

Fans seem to becoming increasing intolerant of teams getting a chance on goal. What next? We're shit - they had some possession?

All team will get chances in a game and all teams will have their spell when they look threatening. I remember after the Cardiff game people complaining that they took the game to us in the second half - of course they did. They were three down and had to something.

What matters is how you deal with those chances and what you do with yours.
 

Redragbull

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Stoke put 51 crosses into our box and scored 1 goal, that's a 2% conversion rate. That's down to a combination of shit delivery and good defending. If the question had been asked in the pre- match thread " How many goals would we concede from 51 crosses with Crouch in the box", the answer, based on posts in this thread, would have probably been 3-4. So in that respect, I'm satisfied with CB defending in this match.
A lot has been made of Skrtel's shirt tugging on set pieces and people nervous that he will give away a penalty sooner or later. He's no different to a majority of CB's in this respect, the clever ones, like Sktel always ensure that they are on the ref's blind side and release the hold at the right time so that it appears to be six of one and half a dozen of the other. It may look blatantly obvious from the stands or TV camera view, but totally different from the ref's perspective.
 

Mascot88

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charleslee89 said:
yeah, but will Gerrard actually adapt his game and learn from Allen how to recycle the ball better?
That's the question - who knows? Physically though he has all the attribute, and if he can adapt he'll be an awesome DM. What's promising is that both he and Rodgers have acknowledged he needs to get to grips with it.
 

SirBillShankly

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As much as i love Stevie, he lacks the pace and energy to be a top DM, as does Lucas, think we really need some fresh blood.

Getting back to the game, i just loved Sturridge's reverse pass on the outside of his boot to set up Genius for our 4th, total class and the way he took his goal, so sharp, he's an absolute gem. Magician.
 

jimbo

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rab said:
Totally agree. Away from home when teams take the game to us we've no solidity in the centre of midfield. We're too easy to overwhelm and open up in that area which heaps pressure onto the defence. As solid a job as Gerrard did defensively he did give possession away a lot which just invites them to come back at us.

If we'd had Allen instead of Lucas I think we'd have retained the ball and sucked the impetus out of their pressing game a lot better. This would of helped us control the game more and take the wind out their sails at 0-2 instead of letting them come back at us.


agree with this.. But going into our next games we really need to sort the midfield out, allens out for 3-4 weeks then rehabilitation, match fit etc we are looking 2 months. Also against Everton no way gerrard should be holding we need him the middle at least.
 

costared

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SirBillShankly said:
As much as i love Stevie, he lacks the pace and energy to be a top DM, as does Lucas, think we really need some fresh blood.

Getting back to the game, i just loved Sturridge's reverse pass on the outside of his boot to set up Genius for our 4th, total class and the way he took his goal, so sharp, he's an absolute gem. Magician.
I think Stevie may surprise you. He is a far better all round performer than Lucas.
 

Red Armada

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Beating Stoke at their ground is an excellent result but is shouldn't be used to sweep under the rug our defensive frailties or the fact that we were lucky to come out of this game with the victory.

It's quite normal for any team in the world to put in once in a while an under par performance such as this one; Giving away goal after goal with amateurish defending however isn't. It's bound to catch up with us at some point and may very well end up costing us a CL spot.

Personally i have no interest in seeing a repeat of the Evans years or becoming the newest version of Wenger's naive Arsenal teams. It has gone beyond the pale and instant improvement is required.
 

Semmy

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Defensive frailties?

defending Crouch in the air is an arduous task. he played that set piece to perfection, its his specialty and I was not surprised he scored.

Adam's was a very good strike of the ball from 25+ yds out. the kind of goal I wish SG could still score. other than Skrtel not closing space on him not much could be done. it wad a quality goal.

3rd goal was shite...pure and simple.

but when you are sitting on a 2-goal lead in last 10 min, those are the goals that happen when you are playing on a very soupy wet ground on tired legs.
 

Arminius

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Semmy said:
Defensive frailties?

defending Crouch in the air is an arduous task. he played that set piece to perfection, its his specialty and I was not surprised he scored.

Adam's was a very good strike of the ball from 25+ yds out. the kind of goal I wish SG could still score. other than Skrtel not closing space on him not much could be done. it wad a quality goal.

3rd goal was shite...pure and simple.

but when you are sitting on a 2-goal lead in last 10 min, those are the goals that happen when you are playing on a very soupy wet ground on tired legs.
You know it is a defensive frailty when a cross in open play is referred to as a set piece.

Crouch's movement was good, though he could have been marked more closely, but that is not where the real breakdown was. Arnautovic was able to create 5 yards of space for an open cross with a movement as simple as a touch with the outside of his foot toward the center of the field. Suarez deserves some blame, simply because he was close, but FFS he is a forward. Where exactly was Johnson going? There was no overlap, and there wasn't even a Stoke player in position to begin one. He just sort of trots away from the ball aimlessly headed toward the corner of the 18-yard box. Absolutely inexplicable.

It should also be noted that two of the three goals were in the first half, legs should not have been that tired.
 

Semmy

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Arminius said:
You know it is a defensive frailty when a cross in open play is referred to as a set piece.

Crouch's movement was good, though he could have been marked more closely, but that is not where the real breakdown was. Arnautovic was able to create 5 yards of space for an open cross with a movement as simple as a touch with the outside of his foot toward the center of the field. Suarez deserves some blame, simply because he was close, but FFS he is a forward. Where exactly was Johnson going? There was no overlap, and there wasn't even a Stoke player in position to begin one. He just sort of trots away from the ball aimlessly headed toward the corner of the 18-yard box. Absolutely inexplicable.

It should also be noted that two of the three goals were in the first half, legs should not have been that tired.
Johnson IS inexplicable right now. I know the first 2 goals were in first half I was referring to tired legs on 3rd goal.

Stopping Crouch on a aerial is difficult due to his height. Skrtel cannot even control Kompany in the box, let alone a guy half a foot taller?

you think its a coincidence they had 50+ crosses?
 

rab

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Semmy said:
Johnson IS inexplicable right now. I know the first 2 goals were in first half I was referring to tired legs on 3rd goal.

Stopping Crouch on a aerial is difficult due to his height. Skrtel cannot even control Kompany in the box, let alone a guy half a foot taller?

you think its a coincidence they had 50+ crosses?
You've got to cut the crosses out at the source if you can't compete with the height and aerial ability in the middle. They had Arnautovic on the left who is behind Assaidi in their pecking order, a player who couldn't even make our bench most of last season. On the right flank they had Adam for most of the game, a player who doesn't posses a right foot, anything in the way of trickery or pace.

We could have done better defending in and around the box but we absolutely needed to defend better wide out to prevent the balls coming in.
 

SirBillShankly

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costared said:
I think Stevie may surprise you. He is a far better all round performer than Lucas.
I'm more bothered about his age and legs, has he got the energy to close down the opposition and protect the back 4 for 90 minutes week-in, week-out? I have serious doubts about that. His quality is never in question but we need a younger, pacier, stronger DM in my opinion.
 

anglian_red

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Have the TOTAL number of premier league goals increased at all?
2012/2013; 1063
2011/2012; 1066
2010/2011; 1063
2009/2010; 1053
2008/2009; 942
2007/2008; 1002
2006/2007; 931
2005/2006; 944
2004/2005; 975
2003/2004; 1012
2002/2003; 1000

Well there's another one for the Rafa haters, they can say he made the entire league less interesting!

People say the league is 'more competative' now but I just think standards of the top clubs have dropped. Teams have struggled to properly control games in the last few seasons which has co-incided with English clubs struggling in Europe. Yes Chelsea won it based on 'men behind the ball' but in 2007, 2008 & 2009, the Premier League made up 3 of the 4 Champions League semi finalists. Our league was dominant over all of Europe, but it's not now.

Manchester United struggled in the Europa League against the 9th best team in Spain & it's taken Man City three attempts to get out of the group stage.
 

Drubas

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THE GOOD:

SAS
Sterling

THE BAD

Johnson (O M G)
Gerrard
Mignolet
 

OOTer

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For me Rodgers went all out attack. For which he sacrificed a certain amount of control of the game, of which we have had much more in othet games against more accomplished opponents.

Last year we struggled against teams the press us and teams that counter us. We have addressed that a bit with our own ability to counter attack and also have a resonably mobile midfield at times (namely Hendo and coutinho).

I think Rodgers knew that if we tried to control this game we would probably not have the ball as much and not be able to score as many as we did. So he opted to neglect the defence; hence pushing Lucas forward and Stevie in the distributer role, and go for all out attack and outscore them. Which we did in the end.

I hope I'm right as I hope we can go back to controlling games again soon. It's a lot easier on the old ticker.

Well made up we finally managed a PL win at Stoke. OK there were mistakes and bad spells but the important thing is we kept trying and prevailed in the end. If ever game was a cakewalk we'd be certs for the title. Which we are not. A few years ago we may not have responded to letting those 1st two Stoke goals slip and have maybe lost control and the game. This time we did not. That shows character and that we are learning to build a winning mentality. And that we are a team that can pull together when needed and not loose focus on our gameplan or start a blaming game on the pitch.

So well happy. Can't always play well and win. And I don't think we played bad at all given how I think we approached the game.

Get the funk in there :)

So happy Spurs aren't above us. How they are even close with the tripe they've offered up this season.
 

Joe90

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I agree johnson was very poor. I thought the rest of the team played well. Hey they got the win. Stoke were always chasing the game really. I hate those pink apes almost as much as i hate man u. Mark hughes is such a humourless tosser.
 

cardiffpete

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Stoke only in the game after 38 minutes (in both halves). We nullified them very well (and they were very wayward in passing, crossing and decision-making) apart from the closing minutes of both halves.

Then they made a real fight of it ...but we gifted it a bit too then. Stoke had a nice intensity, but little to show for it until late-on in both halves. We let stuff slip a little twice, probably due to complacency.

First LFC side to score 51 goals (after 21 games) since the unbelievable 1987~88 side. Probably due to Suarez (Sturridge too) and our general atacking prowess and BR's attacking propensity.

The huge and massive difference with '87~88 though ...is that that team could also defend aka they had 11 goals against after 21 games. LFC in '87~88 only conceeded more than one goal a game 4 times all-season-long (40 games) ....while we have now shipped 2+ in 7 of our last 8 away (plus 3 against 3 times).

In some ways I see similarities to our great '87~88 team (attack-wise) aka the sheer joy and exuberance to our attacking play and the similarly huge amounts of goals-scored ...but defensively there is just no similarity at all. '87~88 ruled in every aspect - attack, defense ...you name it.

These days, I'll settle for LFC bossing attack though ...and being semi-crap defensively. It's a start.
 

SoueysTash

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Johnson is playing like he knows he aint going to be here next season, mentally he's in the wrong place. Needs to either sort his head out or be replaced. Replacing him this window will be very tricky though...Can't see Flanagan getting in ahead of him as BR seems to favour one attack minded fullback and one who's a little more reserved, maybe when Enrique comes back Flanagan can take over? Who knows...he's not at the races though.
 

Mascot88

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SoueysTash said:
Johnson is playing like he knows he aint going to be here next season, mentally he's in the wrong place. Needs to either sort his head out or be replaced. Replacing him this window will be very tricky though...Can't see Flanagan getting in ahead of him as BR seems to favour one attack minded fullback and one who's a little more reserved, maybe when Enrique comes back Flanagan can take over? Who knows...he's not at the races though.
The way Flanagan poured his heart into his performances during his brief spell, I think there would be something a wrong if he didn't get a game ahead of Johnson.
 

StGpaidi

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So, that's the 2nd time in a month when we go to a boogey ground and win by scoring 5. I wonder what's next in this pattern (#OT)
 

SoueysTash

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Mascot88 said:
The way Flanagan poured his heart into his performances during his brief spell, I think there would be something a wrong if he didn't get a game ahead of Johnson.
He's not the most attack minded fullback tho. Him and cissokho wouldn't work I don't think. Enrique and flanno might though
 

RJK

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SoueysTash said:
He's not the most attack minded fullback tho. Him and cissokho wouldn't work I don't think. Enrique and flanno might though
SoueysTash said:
He's not the most attack minded fullback tho. Him and cissokho wouldn't work I don't think. Enrique and flanno might though
Scored more goals than Johnson this year :)
 

Mascot88

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SoueysTash said:
He's not the most attack minded fullback tho. Him and cissokho wouldn't work I don't think. Enrique and flanno might though
He's looked a lot more attacked this season than before. Cafu-esque, you might say.
 

Mascot88

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Just a thought - did we only use one sub? Can't think who else came on apart from Sturridge.
 

Joe90

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Just sturridge. How old is flanno? Surely he can develop his attacking flair in the next two or so years. Our own Academy grads cost a lot less than someone else's...
 

Mascot88

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Another thing (since I'm watching the highlights again) did anyone notice when the fifth goal went in after Sturridge scores, Suarez went and picked up the ball and held on to it after running to join in the celebrations, killing a bit of time and denying Stoke a quick kick off.

It might just be my perverse enjoyment of a bit of cynicism, but I bloody loved that.
 

SoueysTash

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Joe90 said:
Just sturridge. How old is flanno? Surely he can develop his attacking flair in the next two or so years. Our own Academy grads cost a lot less than someone else's...
Bit off topic but I'd be interested in the actual cost of bring an academy player through
 

slufsar

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We struggle defensively, but I think our midfield is more to blame for that than our CB's are. Our midfield is to easy to run straight through and several times our midfielders fail to pick up runs from the midfield.
Our FB's also have a tendency to be passive and allow wingers to pick out crosses. Especially Enrique and Johnson do this. Cissokho for all of his flaws, is much better at this.