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Post Match: Stoke 3 Liverpool 5

hugo the horrible

Ridiculously optimistic.(even more so now)
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TheFalse9 said:
Whilst I agree with the sentiment in your post, I wouldn't say Kenny (or was it the board?) was particularly great in the transfer market, so the fact that he wanted Adam doesn't really show that he's a good player.
Try DC, he had more than a little to do with it, his comments since tend to confirm that!
 

Tokyo_Red

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Mascot88 said:
Another thing (since I'm watching the highlights again) did anyone notice when the fifth goal went in after Sturridge scores, Suarez went and picked up the ball and held on to it after running to join in the celebrations, killing a bit of time and denying Stoke a quick kick off.

It might just be my perverse enjoyment of a bit of cynicism, but I bloody loved that.
He then beckoned over Raheem and dropped the ball in the corner. Brilliant I say.
 

anglian_red

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I've seen people on all sorts of media criticising Martin Skrtel today, but I think that's ridiculous. Yes he maybe could've closed Adam down better, but the chance came from Mignolets 156th poor clearance of the season, Hendersons misplaced pass and Gerrard falling over. If but for all those things, Adam wouldn't have even had the ball.

You could maybe say Skrtel's dragged the back four too deep on the Crouch goal, against Crouch you want to be 'defending 18 yard line' as Hansen would say, but he's also pointing for Toure to keep with Crouch, but Toure must've seen something more interesting to look at upfield instead.

It's easy to give Skrtel stick because Skrtel actually plays. Agger & Sakho struggle to string 3 games together without needing treatment. I think Skrtel has been very good this season, about as good as he can be considering the rest of the team are happy to leave him 1v1, away from home, against Manchester City, four times during the game. As if that's sensible. Fuck sake.
 

Canuck33

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anglian_red said:
I've seen people on all sorts of media criticising Martin Skrtel today, but I think that's ridiculous. Yes he maybe could've closed Adam down better, but the chance came from Mignolets 156th poor clearance of the season, Hendersons misplaced pass and Gerrard falling over. If but for all those things, Adam wouldn't have even had the ball.

You could maybe say Skrtel's dragged the back four too deep on the Crouch goal, against Crouch you want to be 'defending 18 yard line' as Hansen would say, but he's also pointing for Toure to keep with Crouch, but Toure must've seen something more interesting to look at upfield instead.

It's easy to give Skrtel stick because Skrtel actually plays. Agger & Sakho struggle to string 3 games together without needing treatment. I think Skrtel has been very good this season, about as good as he can be considering the rest of the team are happy to leave him 1v1, away from home, against Manchester City, four times during the game. As if that's sensible. Fuck sake.
Actually, I think that's a bit harsh on Sakho. Until his injury v Chelsea he played 7 straight, was benched for 4 and then played 5 straight. Not like the piece of glass Agger is.
 

Joe90

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SoueysTash said:
Bit off topic but I'd be interested in the actual cost of bring an academy player through
http://www.ecaeurope.com/Research/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies.pdf

Bit of light reading for you. ;)

I reckon it's millions of pounds saved per player.

In this 'Dear-new-manager-please-win-everything-spend-up-large-cause-that's-never-failed-before' environment, admittedly it takes balls of steel to promote from within.

But the megadollar players that are purchased were developed SOMEWHERE. Why not at English clubs?

I support the idea of fewer clubs and B teams of top clubs being allowed in lower divisions. Would mean more English players getting exposed to a better level of coaching and playing. That's got to be good for the long-term financial health of clubs and by extension, the National Team.
 

Claymenza

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To be fair, I thought gerrard's workrate as the sole defensive mid was impressive. His passing was a bit too ambitious at times but he contribute many tackles that lucas wouldn't have. I bet he has more pace than lucas.
 

anglian_red

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Actually, I think that's a bit harsh on Sakho. Until his injury v Chelsea he played 7 straight, was benched for 4 and then played 5 straight. Not like the piece of glass Agger is.
Fair enough, I didn't realise he was benched, I just remember he wasn't playing. I'm not sure what Brendan had in mind for the defence during the summer but I seriously doubt he expected Skrtel to be playing every game. We started the season with Toure & Agger, before Sakho was signed. Skrtel came back in against United and hasn't missed a game since.

I'm a big fan of Agger but I wonder if he's sort of our Van Persie, in how we've wondered for years how good we'd be if he was always fit. I remember his metatarsal injury in 2007/08 left Rafa Benitez feeling the entire season could've been different, it maybe cost us two League places.

That said, 'piece of glass' might be unfair to Agger these days. Last season he made 35 League appearences, the highest since he's been here and more than Pepe Reina. In 2011-12 he reached 27 apps for the first time in five seasons. So he's been pretty reliable fitness wise for the last couple of years. No worse than anybody else. He's played 11 League games so far but has been on the bench for at least 5 others. I can't help but think the Sakho deal was in the pipeline for a long time, and Brendan intended to partner him & Agger, but Skrtel has sort of ruined that plan.
 

lfc.eddie

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Claymenza said:
To be fair, I thought gerrard's workrate as the sole defensive mid was impressive. His passing was a bit too ambitious at times but he contribute many tackles that wouldn't have. I bet he has more pace than lucas.
I think Kuyt would probably be quicker too.

Gerrard's only issue is to keep himself check in the whole 90 minutes not taking matters into his own hands and try pushing forward. His tendency to take the game at the scruff of its neck may be his biggest problem when playing that role. If he can show signs of self constraint a bit more, I think he could very well do the job. Not like he's never tackled anyone in his whole career. He used to dished it out in his younger days, and surely he can still do that.

If he wants to succeed in that department he will need to watch videos of Hamman. The best example he could follow, tall, good on the ball, great shot and good vision for a pass. Strong and stable, has that presence on the pitch. If he study that German's style of play, he could add a couple of more years to his playing career.
 

lovepool

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Great point about Hamann, Eddie. When the the German was at his bedt under Houllier we wen to from side to side and shielded the space in front of Henchoz and Hyypia rather than getting all around the pitch like a Mascherano.

Hopefully Gerrard and have the same discipline and do a similar job for us. Arteta has adapted his game and does a decent job for Arsenal in this role without being as physical as Gerrard
 

The Phenom

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Joe90 said:
I support the idea of fewer clubs and B teams of top clubs being allowed in lower divisions. Would mean more English players getting exposed to a better level of coaching and playing. That's got to be good for the long-term financial health of clubs and by extension, the National Team.

I am with you on that. One city, one team. No more derbies.
One Merseyside team; with the Reds as A of course.
And to be fair to the colors, let the Blues of Manchester be in the PL.
 

lfc.eddie

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Darkside said:
I support the idea of fewer clubs and B teams of top clubs being allowed in lower divisions. Would mean more English players getting exposed to a better level of coaching and playing. That's got to be good for the long-term financial health of clubs and by extension, the National Team.

I am with you on that. One city, one team. No more derbies.
One Merseyside team; with the Reds as A of course.
And to be fair to the colors, let the Blues of Manchester be in the PL.
They were like that till it broke apart. Also, what does it got to do with our Stoke post match discussion? Besides, we are here supporting the club in red, not the country who wears white.
 

koptician

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craig bellamy's golf club said:
John Henry was watching since he commented on twitter. Hopefully he will get some bloody defenders in pronto.
We desperately need two fullbacks. One that gives a damn (on the right) and one that has quality (on the left)
 

koptician

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Borini's Knife said:
Now I know how it works:

Say some crap about a ref
Pay a fine
Get a penno!

Fair trade.
Ain't that the truth!! So the next will be just before we visit Manure
 

cw37

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That game was brilliant. Could have been anything. I watched it. Then to give the tv up to the kids i listened the phone-in on Radio Merseyside with Jimmy Case. It is the first time i have done that for ages. (I normally have LFCTV on). And our fans were going on. moaning about our defence. Yeah there were some valid points. But you would have thought we had lost 5-3. They need to relax, Try to take it all in. Think. and you should then realise we are making progress. If we get 4th then it is happening quicker than we all thought it would. Let the staff whos job it is worry about conceding 3. ENJOY THE 5. I DID.
 

Quagmire81

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Joe90 said:
http://www.ecaeurope.com/Research/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies/ECA%20Report%20on%20Youth%20Academies.pdf

Bit of light reading for you. ;)

I reckon it's millions of pounds saved per player.

In this 'Dear-new-manager-please-win-everything-spend-up-large-cause-that's-never-failed-before' environment, admittedly it takes balls of steel to promote from within.

But the megadollar players that are purchased were developed SOMEWHERE. Why not at English clubs?

I support the idea of fewer clubs and B teams of top clubs being allowed in lower divisions. Would mean more English players getting exposed to a better level of coaching and playing. That's got to be good for the long-term financial health of clubs and by extension, the National Team.
It's simple, the compitition and level in EPL is too tough for a young talent to get a look in, and there's too much money at stake for the clubs to take the needed care of a young talent for him to reach his full potential.

There's a saying in other (weaker) leagues around europe, that if a young talent go abroad too early he will be in a risk of not reaching his full potential, simply because he will become one among many and if you not up to it mentaly then you be stuck as just one among many aka. an average player.

It's better to stay put and play every week, until you dominate at your club as first step and then the league as next. Then you be ready to take one step up the latter to a better league, and then go through that progress again... til you end up in Premier league ;)
 

rab

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Quagmire81 said:
It's simple, the compitition and level in EPL is too tough for a young talent to get a look in, and there's too much money at stake for the clubs to take the needed care of a young talent for him to reach his full potential.
And yet the perennial champions of Germany and current European champions have Badstuber, Alaba, Lahm, Schweinstieger, Kross and Muller playing for them. Yes the German TV deal isn't worth as much as the Premier League deal but they find ways to nurture young talent through their academy and into international stardom without it affecting how competitive they are.

That's half a team they've got from their youth set up and all who are fiercely loyal to the club and have been brought up in the Bayern image. There's no reason clubs in England can't do this, they chose to buy players as it's seen as a quicker more direct route to success.
 

Quagmire81

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rab said:
And yet the perennial champions of Germany and current European champions have Badstuber, Alaba, Lahm, Schweinstieger, Kross and Muller playing for them. Yes the German TV deal isn't worth as much as the Premier League deal but they find ways to nurture young talent through their academy and into international stardom without it affecting how competitive they are.

That's half a team they've got from their youth set up and all who are fiercely loyal to the club and have been brought up in the Bayern image. There's no reason clubs in England can't do this, they chose to buy players as it's seen as a quicker more direct route to success.
That was kinda my point.

Bayern is kind of a freak case though. Could just aswell use Barcelona as example and ask why can't we develope talent like them.

Another talent factory is Ajax, whom put all their focus on talent, and they are not really part of the elite of clubs in europe, so there got to be a middleway too.
 

indianscouser

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slufsar said:
We struggle defensively, but I think our midfield is more to blame for that than our CB's are. Our midfield is to easy to run straight through and several times our midfielders fail to pick up runs from the midfield.
Our FB's also have a tendency to be passive and allow wingers to pick out crosses. Especially Enrique and Johnson do this. Cissokho for all of his flaws, is much better at this.
Our major problem has been defense. Thats because our CB currently have no co-ordination. This along with our full backs who have been poor in set pieces. Our midfield has been solid in fact, with the occasional misplaced pass. Glenn has been indifferent this season, very average both attacking and defensively. We also miss enrique. What we need is a set of players playing a run of games. At the moment,every game we have either a different CB or LB, and hence the lack of chemistry.
Very evident in the stoke game. 1st goal was a skrtels error. Second well, like i mentioned the ocassional misplaced pass and our inability to close down quickly.
 

sportbilly1966

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costared said:
One point at a time.
I think Crouch deserves credit for his goal.He made a dummy run that created just enough time and space for him to get in a decent header.Maybe a better CB would have stopped him, who knows.
Adam goal have to agree although he did get a slice of luck with the ball going between. Skrtles legs.
Lucas can only play DM and is average at that these days which makes it hard work for the others.Gerrard actually did some very good defending and don't forget the conditions really favoured forwards. Hendo was having a lot to do with Lucas being quiet and Coutinho being very ineffective .He has been way below last seasons excellent form so far this season. ( also needs to learn to put his foot through the ball instead of sidefooting it all the time).
Hendo has put in a lot of hard work in recent games but is another who needs to learn to shoot properly.
Could be right about Skrtle and Cissiko but I am not sure Coutinhos problem is psychological.
Maybe we did get a stroke of luck with the pen but look at the times things have gone the other way,like Sterlings "offside" goal at City for example.
We do definitely need a new MF and I think we will get one but I doubt we will get all of the others. If we get a few back from injury ,Flanagan, Sackho,Enrique, then maybe we might just be good enough for the top 4.
Toure keeps getting blamed for Crouch's header why? He did everything right, he played the percentages right by covering the most dangerous area and stopping Crouch from attacking the ball. Crouch in fairness, moving away from goal, pulled off a fantastic header right in to the bottom corner, how often would he or other forwards pull that sort of finish off? Credit sometimes has to go to the forward Toure couldn't be blamed, in my opinion
 

RedSouthIndian

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sportbilly1966 said:
Toure keeps getting blamed for Crouch's header why? He did everything right, he played the percentages right by covering the most dangerous area and stopping Crouch from attacking the ball. Crouch in fairness, moving away from goal, pulled off a fantastic header right in to the bottom corner, how often would he or other forwards pull that sort of finish off? Credit sometimes has to go to the forward Toure couldn't be blamed, in my opinion
Crouch's goal was the best amongst the lot. He made room for himself and headed after what looked like the ball had almost passed him. It helped that the cross was at a very convenient height for him.
 

Dublin_Kopite

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Hope in your heart said:
We didn't go toe to toe with them. They outplayed us pretty much at will, and we were lucky to get the win. Adam for instance had a field day today. It was insane to see how much space and time he had on the ball .
Just read a stat that Charlie Adam lost possession 36 times in the LFC game.
THIRTY SIX TIMES!
 

anglian_red

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Dublin_Kopite said:
Just read a stat that Charlie Adam lost possession 36 times in the LFC game.
THIRTY SIX TIMES!
Does every time he hit a set piece straight to a Liverpool player count?
 

SF Red

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Just thinking about Stoke. My favorite part of the match was hearing 35K+ Stoke fans singing "Luis Suarez, you know what you are" being drowned about by about 3K LFC fans singing the Luis Suarez song.

Fucking brilliant away support.
 

Mr v

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Dublin_Kopite said:
Just read a stat that Charlie Adam lost possession 36 times in the LFC game.
THIRTY SIX TIMES!
if this is true, then he s had a better game than i thought he would. Cannot believe that clown ever played for us.