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Post Match: Stoke 3 Liverpool 5

Dr_J

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Mascot88 said:
Absolutely.

I can us lining up with Gerrard behind Allen and Hendo in a 1-2 midfield. With Lucas, it's a bit leggier and not as energetic, but Lucas is Gerrard's deputy once everyone is fit.
I think any critics of Allen should, after watching that game, note his value to the side. I think he would have really helped today. I think Lucas is a solid holding midfielder, but he does not press as well as Allen up the pitch. It was far from Lucas' fault, but Stoke did have some possession that we hadn't allowed teams when Henderson and Allen were working together to press higher up the pitch.

I thought Gerrard looked pretty good in his new found role but needed a player like Allen to work into some space to complete simple passes when the movement stagnates. Lucas doesn't really have a sense for working into these kind of spaces, but you can't really blame a guy when he hasn't played this role. Overall I just think Allen's value to the side should be noted, even though he's far from a world beater yet.
 

naturalskill

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Mascot88 said:
Absolutely.

I can us lining up with Gerrard behind Allen and Hendo in a 1-2 midfield. With Lucas, it's a bit leggier and not as energetic, but Lucas is Gerrard's deputy once everyone is fit.
the so-called 1-2 midfield is the reason why other teams are finding it relatively easy to create chances against us.

as much as I thoroughly enjoyed that game and the 3 points today, it was blatantly obvious that such an open attacking approach leaves us so vulnerable. I think the ideal would be for us to develop a more solid defensive structure in addition too our attacking mode. Mourinho is already perfecting this with his new Chelsea team...time for us to start doing the same! Throwing away a two goal lead was silly...the best teams can defend a lead. We know we can attack and score goals against the lesser teams but playing too open will be punished by the better teams as we saw against City and Chelsea. Let's see a bit more "flexibility" and "control"...still very happy with today but much work to be done if we want to get back to the top!
 

ptt

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I think I suggested Gerrard playing DM about 3 years ago in here to extend his career. Sadly those posts and threads have gone (as is the stick I took for making such a stupid suggestion) but I'm so glad to be proved right, again :)
 

Canuck33

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ptt said:
I think I suggested Gerrard playing DM about 3 years ago in here to extend his career. Sadly those posts and threads have gone (as is the stick I took for making such a stupid suggestion) but I'm so glad to be proved right, again :)
Don't worry, this has been suggested by a lot of people, and they were all ridiculed for it. But it's going to happen anyway, because it's the only way.
 

anglian_red

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Whilst I agree with the sentiment in your post, I wouldn't say Kenny (or was it the board?) was particularly great in the transfer market, so the fact that he wanted Adam doesn't really show that he's a good player.
Well if you believe Kenny, they were all his choices. Comolli's job was to broker the deals, so the actual fees had more to do with him. I would assume when Comolli went back to Kenny with 'good news boss, we've got that Carroll guy you wanted, 35mill, putting it through now' that Kenny probably said 'what the fucking fuck?! 35 fucking million fucking pounds?!'

I had my doubts about signing a player with only one year Premier League experience, considering just three seasons earlier we had Mascherano & Alonso at the base of our midfield. Charlie seemed to do well as a very big fish in a very small pond, but then he joined up with Steven Gerrard and found a much bigger fish. I think had Kenny stayed, Adam and Carroll would've probably got another year at least too.
 
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Gerrard and Lucas simply do not work together. The lack of movement just makes us look sloppy and the amount of times Gerrard gave away the ball cheaply trying to a long range pass infuriated me during the game and contributed to the lack of fluency in our play. How I wish Allen was fit so we could see a midfield trio of Hendo, Allen and one of Gerrard/Lucas. Personally with Sturridge back Gerrard would probably be the person I would drop to accommodate him (and play Hendo + Lucas in the middle).
 

Joe90

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Some here are complaining about scoring more goals than conceding (which is actually how you win a game).

Here's a quote from a footballing legend (English) on that, when his side was criticised for conceding a few too many goals:

"I do not worry about conceding goals because I know my forwards will double it at the other end."

Can you guess who it was who said this?

Remember you can go the whole season not conceding and still get relegated...
 

Maulkin

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ptt said:
I think I suggested Gerrard playing DM about 3 years ago in here to extend his career. Sadly those posts and threads have gone (as is the stick I took for making such a stupid suggestion) but I'm so glad to be proved right, again :)
Today I was totally shocked to see Lucas making a run in the opposite penalty box and making a cross.

Maybe, after Benitez changed his roles to DM we're finally going to see Lucas as the attacking player he was lauded as! :D
 

Canuck33

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Joe90 said:
Some here are complaining about scoring more goals than conceding (which is actually how you win a game).

Here's a quote from a footballing legend (English) on that, when his side was criticised for conceding a few too many goals:

"I do not worry about conceding goals because I know my forwards will double it at the other end."

Can you guess who it was who said this?

Remember you can go the whole season not conceding and still get relegated...
How often did a team with 38 points not manage to stay up?
 

jujungman

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OhYaBeauty said:
At what point does Skrtel's shirt pulling stop being shit defending and start to become a legitimate strategy to prevent goals with apparently no repercussions?
i live in sydney and down here the commentary we get for LFC matches always seems to pick out skrtel and his antics...seriously, i watch a lot of matches every week and i see the antics happen all the time but why is it that skrtel is always the one being pointed out by the commentary?... i have noticed this for quite some time now...im more than happy that we may concede a penalty from this as long as the refs treat everyone else the same and it doesn't just become a thing against LFC again..otherwise im flying out to the referees headquarters and laying an egg in front of them...no more double standards
 

mattyhurst

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Suarez has played twice at the Britannia and scored twice on both occasions....

The only two wins as well...
 

lfc.eddie

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Joe90 said:
Some here are complaining about scoring more goals than conceding (which is actually how you win a game).

Here's a quote from a footballing legend (English) on that, when his side was criticised for conceding a few too many goals:

"I do not worry about conceding goals because I know my forwards will double it at the other end."

Can you guess who it was who said this?

Remember you can go the whole season not conceding and still get relegated...
Firstly did you watch the game?

Secondly shame on you for quoting a Man United manager in a Liverpool Post Match thread in a forum called The Albert.
 

anglian_red

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Remember you can go the whole season not conceding and still get relegated...
Can you throw away leads approximately 10 times a season and win the title? Technically yes I suppose you can, if you won the other 28 games.

How often did a team with 38 points not manage to stay up?
Birmingham went down with 39 in 2011. Sheffield United went down with 39 in 2007, but that was all Rafa/Tevez/West Ham's fault apparently.

I do not worry about conceding goals because I know my forwards will double it at the other end
Just a shame that didn't happen against Southampton, or Chelsea, or Man City, or Hull....
 

Kinny Riddle

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Canuck33 said:
How often did a team with 38 points not manage to stay up?
That got me curious, so I looked it up.

6 times since the 20 team format from 1995/1996. Most recently Birmingham and Blackpool at 39pts in 2010/2011. Highest ever points for a relegated team was West Ham at 42pts in 2003.
 

Canuck33

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anglian_red said:
Can you throw away leads approximately 10 times a season and win the title? Technically yes I suppose you can, if you won the other 28 games.



Birmingham went down with 39 in 2011. Sheffield United went down with 39 in 2007, but that was all Rafa/Tevez/West Ham's fault apparently.



Just a shame that didn't happen against Southampton, or Chelsea, or Man City, or Hull....
Sheffield went down with 38 that year and Wigan stayed up with the same total. And guess what, they had negative goal differentials. That doesn't happen, if you don't concede. So believe you me, there is no way a team that doesn't concede will go down.
Kinny Riddle said:
That got me curious, so I looked it up.

6 times since the 20 team format from 1995/1996. Most recently Birmingham and Blackpool at 39pts in 2010/2011. Highest ever points for a relegated team was West Ham at 42pts in 2003.
They never conceded a goal either?
 

Kinny Riddle

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Canuck33 said:
They never conceded a goal either?
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess, does it? Besides, why are you asking me that? It's not me you're debating against. I was merely providing a trivial answer to a trivial question while remaining on the fence on the issue of goals conceding. B)
 

Arminius

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Dublin_Kopite said:
Love hearing people moaning about conceding goals and lack of tactics after a 5-3 win away against our bogey team..

I'm sure a nice tactical chess match, keeping it tight with two solid banks of four is the way to beat teams like Stoke week in week out... :rolleyes:

The best way to stay in the top 4 is to go toe to toe with teams like this and let your top players blow them away.
I must be some kind of tactical idiot savant, but I would have thought the best way to win would be to go toe to toe with teams, let your top players blow them away, and play some fundamentally sound defense.

Best part of MotD - Rodgers called the Sterling penalty a 'Spanish penalty' because the attacker created the contact then went down, the panel discussed calling it a 'Manchester penalty'.

..and Lawrenson has let himself become fat.
 

Canuck33

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Kinny Riddle said:
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess, does it? Besides, why are you asking me that? It's not me you're debating against. I was merely providing a trivial answer to a trivial question while remaining on the fence on the issue of goals conceding. B)
Right. No rocket scientist degree required. Sorry for asking. I just thought since you were so curious about the amount of points it takes to get relegated, you might have been equally curious about the amount of goals conceded it would take to do so. Again, my mistake.
 

Kinny Riddle

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Canuck33 said:
Right. No rocket scientist degree required. Sorry for asking. I just thought since you were so curious about the amount of points it takes to get relegated, you might have been equally curious about the amount of goals conceded it would take to do so. Again, my mistake.
Oh no worries, mate. I wasn't really paying attention to the debate prior to your question that I neglected to pay attention to the goals conceded column when looking up the stats. I just couldn't be arsed looking them up again as I'm getting rather sleepy at the moment. :lol:
 

gasband

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When man city held on 1 nil until negredo scored a 2nd despite ncastle relentless assault and scrapped a win, it is said that they showed champions pedigree, but when we digged in, lose a 2 goal lead, get a 2 goal lead again, let them get 1 back, and still win the game, its simply because we are lucky.
 

lfc.eddie

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gasband said:
When man city held on 1 nil until negredo scored a 2nd despite ncastle relentless assault and scrapped a win, it is said that they showed champions pedigree, but when we digged in, lose a 2 goal lead, get a 2 goal lead again, let them get 1 back, and still win the game, its simply because we are lucky.
Losing lead is not a good thing. We were rather fortunate when they were bombarding us relentlessly at one point. I am glad Rodgers see the problem we were having, only Sterling up top with pace and opted to move Coutinho out for Sturridge. We then played a more direct style by looking for our speed demons to mess their defence up. Good tactical change, but a very risky game.
 

gasband

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We are giving too little credit to the players and managers mental strength. We would have rolled over in the past. We credit stoke for being a rock at their home this season, but when we managed to pull out a victory against them, where many failed, we just want to point out every single fault and credit lady luck for it. Amazing.
 

redgingerbread

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I think i shat my pants a couple of times watching that horror show!!!!

Seriously though, why does our defence look so wobbly a lot of times? None of our defenders look composed on the ball and you get a feeling they are an accident waiting to happen.

But hey, 3 points is points! Absolutely massive! Luv it!!!!
 

gasband

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lfc.eddie said:
Losing lead is not a good thing. We were rather fortunate when they were bombarding us relentlessly at one point. I am glad Rodgers see the problem we were having, only Sterling up top with pace and opted to move Coutinho out for Sturridge. We then played a more direct style by looking for our speed demons to mess their defence up. Good tactical change, but a very risky game.
Precisely! In the past, the script would be stoke going on to score 2 more in the 2nd half and win the game. But we lost control of the game but were good enough to wrest control eventually despite the relentless assault and the overwhelming mood of the opposing fans. And the best example is sterling, playing with alot of maturity and effectiveness in such a highly charged environment, shows how far our players have come and the work the mgr and coaches put in.
 

lfc.eddie

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gasband said:
We are giving too little credit to the players and managers mental strength. We would have rolled over in the past. We credit stoke for being a rock at their home this season, but when we managed to pull out a victory against them, where many failed, we just want to point out every single fault and credit lady luck for it. Amazing.
Credit was given, no? Didn't everyone (bar one or two) were celebrating and ecstatic with the way we win the game? But when everything calms down a little, you do see the risk in the way we have been playing. There is not much balance to it. If we were to retreat after we scored, we will be pounded by the opponent with waves and waves of attack. We don't exactly control the game and the tempo which is something the manager himself believes in.

I think Stoke has hosted City, Chelsea, Everton and us, with one win, two draws and a loss. They have been decent in their own turf. Great that we have beaten them, but there are plenty of mistakes in a lot of areas other than scoring goals. Our midfield can't play together or string a proper pass together. Our defence were all over the place and our goalkeeper made a blunder. It is not the first time this happened, it has been happening.

We are lucky, not because we won the game, but we have Suarez and Sturridge. We are lucky not the manner of how we won the game, but we have a manager who made our strikers finishing better.
 

gingerbread

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I will be honest, their 3 goals were really good goals as well. Can't believe i said that to Stoke's, but any other team could have been beaten last night at Stoke
 

Canuck33

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gingerbread said:
I will be honest, their 3 goals were really good goals as well. Can't believe i said that to Stoke's, but any other team could have been beaten last night at Stoke
What? Their third goal was a really good goal? Any pub league keeper would've kept that one out.
 

gasband

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lfc.eddie said:
Credit was given, no? Didn't everyone (bar one or two) were celebrating and ecstatic with the way we win the game? But when everything calms down a little, you do see the risk in the way we have been playing. There is not much balance to it. If we were to retreat after we scored, we will be pounded by the opponent with waves and waves of attack. We don't exactly control the game and the tempo which is something the manager himself believes in.

I think Stoke has hosted City, Chelsea, Everton and us, with one win, two draws and a loss. They have been decent in their own turf. Great that we have beaten them, but there are plenty of mistakes in a lot of areas other than scoring goals. Our midfield can't play together or string a proper pass together. Our defence were all over the place and our goalkeeper made a blunder. It is not the first time this happened, it has been happening.

We are lucky, not because we won the game, but we have Suarez and Sturridge. We are lucky not the manner of how we won the game, but we have a manager who made our strikers finishing better.
Giving credit is not ignoring the faults we have of course. But i am talking about fans who, even if we win every single game in the remaining games this way, will still find more negatives. Most of us appreciate the improvements and acknowledge the faults. Some just see the hole in a donut and lament its incomplete.